Master Fyron´s Son

[Tala Goodweed]

Im not sure if this question has already been made.

but in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) comic Roy talks about Xykon killing Master Fyron and his son for the crown.
I havent found any reference on this "son" anywhere, is it in OtooPC?

[FujinAkari]

Nope.

No one knows where or when Xykon killed Master Fyron's son, since it is explicitly -not- shown happening the night Xykon killed Master Fyron.

Popular Theory is that it was either Eugene dramatizing the event, or that Fyron Jr. went for revenge himself and got killed in the process.

P.S. The comic you linked says absolutely nothing about Fyron's son :P

[Maximum Zersk]

To the person above me: It does actually, eighth panel.

[Tala Goodweed]

Ok, so i didnt miss anything.
its say so in panel 8

Roy: What? then..why steal it? Why kill master fyron and his son for it?

[Totally Guy]

Roy says the same thing back in the dungeon.

Here, strip 110 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html).

[Katana_Geldar]

Roy: What? then..why steal it? Why kill master fyron and his son for it?

:xykon: Because it's totally bad ass!

[Tass]

I never noticed it was mentioned in 434 too. I suppose that means we can assume it was not a mistake.

[Azukar]

Can anyone say "plot point"?

It would be awesome justice (or else deus ex machina) if Fyron Jr. was the one to kill Xykon.

[Thanatosia]

That seems unlikely as both references we have seen to Fryon jr have him being killed by Xykon. And knowing Xykon, that means Fryon Jr is probably shambling around as a Zombie somewhere.

[Tass]

Can anyone say "plot point"?

It would be awesome justice (or else deus ex machina) if Fyron Jr. was the one to kill Xykon.

Uhm, yes. Its a major plot point that Fyron and his son was killed. It's the whole reason for all the blood oath stuff :smalltongue:

Other than that I doubt the fact that the son was killed too is going to matter much.

[Hardcore]

In comic #110:


Xykon: Hmmm... more specifik.
MitD: You killed more than one guy named Fyron in Cliffport?
Xykon: Five actually.


Five Fyrons. Perhaps the whole family.

[Azukar]

Uhm, yes. Its a major plot point that Fyron and his son was killed. It's the whole reason for all the blood oath stuff :smalltongue:

Other than that I doubt the fact that the son was killed too is going to matter much.

Oh shush. You know I meant that Fyron Jr. could be a plot point later in the story in his own right :smalltongue:

[MReav]

In comic #110:


Xykon: Hmmm... more specifik.
MitD: You killed more than one guy named Fyron in Cliffport?
Xykon: Five actually.


Five Fyrons. Perhaps the whole family.

I thought that too but it turns out Fyron is a first name (unless the people of Cliffport have their surname first). Full name: Fyron Pucebuckle.

[Hardcore]

Well, given this is an American comic we can assume American naming convention too, right?
In that case Fyron Jr. could well be one of the guys Xykon killed.
Sure, the thing about five guys was mostly a joke by Rich, but he is also at least as smart as Xykon so he may have hinted at something there too.:smallwink:

[Zolkabro]

I don't believe I never noticed that. :smallannoyed: I feel all silly now.

[T.Titan]

Or maybe Eugene thought that Roy might be more inclined to help if he said both father and (possibly non-existent) son died... the kid was certainly not there when Xykon stole the crown.

[Berserk Monk]

Can anyone say "plot point"?

It would be awesome justice (or else deus ex machina) if Fyron Jr. was the one to kill Xykon.

No, not another subplot!

[Thanatosia]

Or maybe Eugene thought that Roy might be more inclined to help if he said both father and (possibly non-existent) son died... the kid was certainly not there when Xykon stole the crown.
This seems somewhat unlikely from what we know of Eugene. To quote Roy from Origin of the PCS: "Now my Father is nothing if not Lawful, and would never lie." This is not to say that Eugene has not behaved in a deceptive manner, or he is not manipulative.... but he tends to hold to the letter of the laws of ethical behavior if not the spirit at least unless he has a really good reason to do otherwise. In other words, he's very likely to lie through semantic manipulation, and may even lie outright if he has a good enough reason to, but he probably wont pepper in outright lies 'just for good measure'.

[Ancalagon]

No, not another subplot!

Why? If OOTS had gotten rid of all subplots, it would have been over near the end of 2006 and we'd miss a lot of character interaction and character development... I doubt anyone of us would have wanted that... so... yay for subplots!

[Lecan]

This seems somewhat unlikely from what we know of Eugene. To quote Roy from Origin of the PCS: "Now my Father is nothing if not Lawful, and would never lie." This is not to say that Eugene has not behaved in a deceptive manner, or he is not manipulative.... but he tends to hold to the letter of the laws of ethical behavior if not the spirit at least unless he has a really good reason to do otherwise. In other words, he's very likely to lie through semantic manipulation, and may even lie outright if he has a good enough reason to, but he probably wont pepper in outright lies 'just for good measure'.

So, the son could have died much later because he lacked a father figure through his formative years and began to run with a bad crowd, finally meeting his end when caught cheating at cards. Eugene then merely twisted that 'causality' to encourage Roy to take up the blood oath.

Or, the son died off panel. I think there were maybe 2-3 panels devoted to Fryon's death scene throughout the entire comic work (unless there were more in SoD, I can't remember) so this is entirely possible.

[Kobold-Bard]

I don't believe I never noticed that. :smallannoyed: I feel all silly now.

Agreed. I'd never noticed a son before.

[Hardcore]

Speaking about things you have missed (laugh!):
In SoD, second panel on page 21, we can see people we can recognise, can't we? One is obvious, the other one may be a surprise...

PS. Of course i don't count Fyron himself, silly!

[MReav]

This seems somewhat unlikely from what we know of Eugene. To quote Roy from Origin of the PCS: "Now my Father is nothing if not Lawful, and would never lie." This is not to say that Eugene has not behaved in a deceptive manner, or he is not manipulative.... but he tends to hold to the letter of the laws of ethical behavior if not the spirit at least unless he has a really good reason to do otherwise. In other words, he's very likely to lie through semantic manipulation, and may even lie outright if he has a good enough reason to, but he probably wont pepper in outright lies 'just for good measure'.

He says that his father would never lie. However, Eugene lied about missing Roy's soccer game, he lied about how he met Roy's mother, he lied about how he met Roy's uncle Myrtok, he lied at his review with the bureaucratic deva, he lied at the trial (posing as the angel), he lied to the angel about passing the report on to V...

Eugene lies a lot. Roy probably didn't realize just how much when he said that line.

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

Or, the son died off panel. I think there were maybe 2-3 panels devoted to Fryon's death scene throughout the entire comic work (unless there were more in SoD, I can't remember) so this is entirely possible.

SoD gives more screenpaneltime to Fryon's death. No son is mentioned in those pages (or, indeed, throughout the entire book).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

So, the son could have died much later because he lacked a father figure through his formative years and began to run with a bad crowd, finally meeting his end when caught cheating at cards. Eugene then merely twisted that 'causality' to encourage Roy to take up the blood oath.
No. Julia was supposed to take up the blood oath. He was entirely uninterested in encouraging Roy to do anything other than pass the story on to Julia when the time was right.

[Katana_Geldar]

Speaking about things you have missed (laugh!):
In SoD, second panel on page 21, we can see people we can recognise, can't we? One is obvious, the other one may be a surprise...

PS. Of course i don't count Fyron himself, silly!

Taking a closer look...

Yes, I think I can see Vaarsuvius and maybe Sabine in her virgin garb

And Eugene DOES lie!

Eugene told Roy two lies: that he met the Cleric Murtok on the bowling team and met his mother at the library

[Acero]

He says that his father would never lie. However, Eugene lied about missing Roy's soccer game, he lied about how he met Roy's mother, he lied about how he met Roy's uncle Myrtok, he lied at his review with the bureaucratic deva, he lied at the trial (posing as the angel), he lied to the angel about passing the report on to V...

Eugene lies a lot. Roy probably didn't realize just how much when he said that line.

He's an illusionist. it comes with the territory

[Kish]

1) There is no requirement to lie to be an illusionist.
2) If there was, what of it? Lying would still be lying and "yes" would still be the answer to "does Eugene Greenhilt lie?"

[Katana_Geldar]

If Xykon killed Fryon's son, he did it on the way out and Eugene was never seen finding his body.

[MReav]

1) There is no requirement to lie to be an illusionist.
2) If there was, what of it? Lying would still be lying and "yes" would still be the answer to "does Eugene Greenhilt lie?"

Thank you.

Oh, and Eugene lied about how if he had any information on Xykon's whereabouts he would have dropped everything to take him on. And considering the kind of person he is, he probably lied to Right-Eye about how he was worried about how Xykon might hunt down his family in revenge (Eugene more likely just didn't want to bother)

[Hardcore]

Katana, I thought I could see Xykon, the guy with the White hair, and Varsuuvius. Not sure about sabine. Maybe if she had her hair styled differently. Being a feminine Succubus I guess that is not unreasonable to expect:smallsmile:

[Katana_Geldar]

It looked similar to the way she had done her hair in the 252 bonus strip. But that's just a guess.

[Nimrod's Son]

It looked similar to the way she had done her hair in the 252 bonus strip. But that's just a guess.
The hair looks a different shade against her skin to me, and the dress is different. Plus, if Rich was going to throw in a cameo of Sabine, why would he draw her slightly resembling a likeness of her that only appears in two panels of a bonus strip in one of the books?

More to the point, why would he have a cameo of Sabine in that panel at all? It makes sense that Vaarsuvius is there: he's interested in learning about Fyron's magic. But Sabine has no reason to be there; that panel happened before most of the Order were even born. He could have thrown Sabine into any given panel disguised as an NPC if he were just doing it as an "easter egg" for the fans, but to put her in the same panel as Vaarsuvius implies a connection between them that goes back far longer than we have any reason to otherwise believe. I think it's much more likely that she's just a random extra.

[Scarlet Knight]

1) There is no requirement to lie to be an illusionist.
2) If there was, what of it? Lying would still be lying and "yes" would still be the answer to "does Eugene Greenhilt lie?"

No, no. A lie to an illusionist is not really a falsehood. A misdirection, perhaps. It's simply a verbal rather than a visual illusion, if you will.

[Trobby]

I remember a specific strip that included Xykon trapping Eugene in a magic force field while killing someone else...that strip might contain Fyron's missing son. A little help find it, forumers?

[Herald Alberich]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be Fyron himself, though. Although, I haven't read SoD, but I hear that Xykon killed him in a different fashion. It's an early strip, so it might just be a continuity error.

That guy looks too old to be Fyron's son in any case.

[Trobby]

Yeah, that's definitely Fyron, and not his son. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

It's still entirely possible that he killed the entire Pucebelt family.

[Nimrod's Son]

This one puzzles me. The fact that Roy mentions it again shortly before his death means that Rich must have done it on purpose, yet throughout Eugene's retelling of the story to Roy (which was almost certainly the only time he ever spoke of these things to him, and included long flashback scenes covering Eugene and Fyron's entire history together from their meeting until Fyron's death) there is not one single mention of Fyron even having a son, let alone how he died. I can't see why Roy would somehow invent this detail, but it really doesn't look like Eugene told him. I really hope this gets answered at some point, because it's surely too weird to just be an oversight on Rich's part.

[Totally Guy]

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be Fyron himself, though. Although, I haven't read SoD, but I hear that Xykon killed him in a different fashion. It's an early strip, so it might just be a continuity error.

It's not an error. It works. It's very clever.:smallwink:

[Super_slash2]

I never noticed this but there's never been any mention of Fyron having a son other than from Roy. Even in the non-Xykon pages in SoD, it hasn't come up.

I, personally, would love it if the dead son was referring to Eugene in some way. Even though he didn't die in any sense (other than sealing his after-life with The Blood Oath). You can't possibly look at Eugene's relationship with his own father, then at his relationship with Fyron and not think he regarded Fyron as the closer father figure.

I know it's a long shot and Roy probably didn't have this in mind (it's kind-of deep and philosophical, not that Roy isn't capable of it, just it's not the sort-of thing you go for at the spur of the moment when you confront the evil lich). Still, rooting for it.

[Kish]

It's not an error. It works. It's very clever.:smallwink:
Details, if you want the spoiler:

Yes, Xykon did kill him in a different fashion. In that panel, as depicted once again in SoD, Xykon isn't killing Fyron--rather, he's animating the already-dead Fyron. Eugene's "NO!" is because he was already planning to get Fyron resurrected, and that won't work if Xykon is taking the body with him.

[Forbiddenwar]

Don't have the book with me right now, but is SOD

doesn't Eugene say he is the son that Fryon never had? Or was it that Fryon was the father that Eugene never had?

It's going to drive me nuts now.

[Kish]

Yes, Eugene says that Fyron was more of a father to him than Horace ever was.

Not spoilering it, 'cause I'm pretty sure anyone could guess that part by reading the strips where Horace appears. :smalltongue: