Living Tippyverse '84: A world-building project

[Kallisti]

So, I'm running a campaign based off George Orwell's 1984 (see my sig). Set in the Tippyverse. And I need help creating a believable, consistent world that remains true to both the spirit of 1984 and to Tippy's thought experiment. So I'm asking now: Help me, playground. Help me make a believable, consistent, playable Tippyverse. In a moment, I'll post what we've got so far.
EDIT: Got it.

The Tippyverse so far on Five gp per day:
The government: The Committee, a group of the most powerful wizards in the Tippyverse, led by Big Brother himself.


The Committee :
They are the mightiest wizards in existence. Each stands right next to Big Brother. Their true names and pasts have long been forgotten, as anybody who ever knew them had been Mindraped, Soul bound, used as a magic battery, freed, dominated, sent to the arena, Mindraped again... well, they are dead and their very soul isn't even remotely connected to its former self. Any hint about those millennium-old wizards has been erased from the face of the Earth.
The Committee’s members live in their own plane, where no rule applies but theirs and Ra'haw's. Some thought-criminals have theorized than Big Brother himself is nothing but one of such wizard and that we are all living in his private plane, while the real world is somewhere outside, with the "real" Big Brother caring about the "real" people. Of course, these mad men have been reeducated (aka Mind Rape, Soul bound...).
The Committee seldom bother with the citizens, as it is Big Brother's task to insure we all be happy. Happiness being mandatory, it's not that difficult. Unhappy people get reeducated and are quickly happy again...or they are just undead. But their soul's happy, at least. Probably...
The Committee does however take care of major problems in this world. Problems far above the spectrum of knowledge of a common citizen. Such knowledge is forbidden, after all. Anybody who has access to it is a thought criminal. And thought criminals must be reeducated...


There should probably be an in-game reason for the name, even if it's as simple as "the first wizard to declare himself Emperor of the state was named Tippy."


This actually makes sense, and I'll probably use it. But Dalmosh is perfect for Tippy's avatar...
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/7895/tippybi7.png
http://main.newgallo.dnsalias.net/Images/Monsters/Dalmosh.jpg
YOU TOUCHED THE TUMMY!! DIE!!!!

How about a black ethergaunt? Ridiculous stats and 17th level casting right out of the box. Plus, he's alien and inscrutable, so (A) you can give him whatever motivations you want for doing all this, and (B) "tippy" could be a nickname, like "Well, his real name is something like FcnHHsuga'asuifjuzgsjgMHJc'vm'tippi'vds, and the only part we humans can pronounce is the 'tippi', so that's what we call him and that's why we call ourselves Tippies."

Got it! Emperor Tippy, with Dalmosh stats, was the first wizard. Ever. At all. The 1984 is 1984 YT (Year of Tippy), so 1984 years after his birth. He's ascended to godhood long ago, and the black ethergaunt known only as Big Brother is his high priest and herald, the Chairman of the Committee.


For example, the XP costs of spells and items. How do wizards pay for all those Create Food and Water traps? My current answer: Arenas pitting thought-criminals against monsters. The criminals level up, the wizards Mindrape them to make them willing XP batteries, drain them dry, and send them back in.

That's a good idea. One addition: whoever wins gets mindraped, whoever loses gets turned into some sort of undead; because undead don't need to eat, sleep, or breathe, they're ideal candidates for working in the wizards' extradimensional strongholds without needing to come out to use the resource traps (thus saving a bunch of XP for other things).

Why not go one step further and say that all citizens, when they die of old age, are given the wonderful privelige of knowing that their bodies, reanimated as zombies, will continue to serve.

On war and peace:


Can I make another suggestion?
Instead of making the Far Plane the realm of Freedom, make it the enemy. That was one of the major running threads of 1984. These 3 nations needed each other to continue, because they needed someone to hate.

In other words, have the Tippies pointlessly send Soldiers into the Far Planes "to fight for the glory of the Tippyverse." The fact that they all die pointlessly, and horribly doesn't really matter. Just have the news tell the brave story of the Men and Women fighting. Entirely fictitious fortresses being built, and entirely made-up victories.


The planes: They all still exist. But most of them have been Tippified.


Hmm, another reason for my planar shepherd to be out for blood. I guess there's no place to run away from Big Brother indeed.

Anyway, what would happen to the native creatures of the outside planes? I guess they would be enslaved and/or used for entertainment of the elite. My class only really cares about what

If they took over the plane of dreams(which is the one I intend to take), then it means they'll be spying on you even when you sleep!


Enslaved. And yes, they watch your dreams for thought-crime...

All the other planes except the Far Realm have been conquered.

The world:

Now, as for the verse...Obviously, the wizards are in charge. If this wasn't so, well...it wouldn't be much of a Tippyverse. What all follows from this...well, what does a wizard in charge of a country want/care about? Probably varies a bit from location to location, but strictures on magic usage and learning are probably a safe bet. Nobody in power wants to lose it. Mundane tasks like farming and hauling water from wells are probably non-existent as well.

Public knowledge of magic is probably much higher than in a standard world....basically everyone would have a couple of ranks in knowledge(arcana), simply because it's so common.

Now, there would probably be a decent trade in things that magic cannot create in bulk for a reasonable cost. What supermage is going to sacrifice his own xp and craft points to make a pile of +1 weapons? That'd be the domain of the apprentice types. Spell components might also be a thriving market, given the epic spell limitation on using produced materials as components in epic spells. Sure, wizards *could* take eschew materials, but money is of little importance to them compared to feats and raw power is.

This sounds about right, so everyone can add Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill, and you all get four ranks of it free.
As for the rest? Spell component markets sounds good, and it gives non-mages something to do. And the XP? The elite get a nigh-infinite supply from the gladiator arenas, but the less powerful among the mages will need to buy it from those with arena access. Although I like the idea of a feudal system, with mages as landowners. Commoners living on their land never rise above first level, because any XP they gain is collected as tax. Any the mage can't use himself can be stored in a thought bottle and sold.

Otyugh hole I'll allow to be purchased for the listed treaure value on the site. Any wizard who owns land that has a magical site like that does a brisk trade charging for admission.



Who's in power? Arcane casters. Wizards are the most powerful by sheer virtue of being the best arcane class, but all arcane spellcasters have a place in the power structure. Divine casting is close to nonexistent, because faith in anything other than Big Brother is a thought-crime, but a few very fervent people can become clerics of Big Brother. He has the Law, Order, Mind, Tyranny, and Magic domains, as well as any I feel like adding later.

They don't kill people for being Charisma-based casters, though. That'd be a waste of resources. They are of lower rank than the wizards, though. The wizards are firmly on top, because they have the highest INT and most flexible spellcasting. Then the sorcerers. Then the focused casters (Beguilers, warmages, dread necromancers...)

True, but the clerics are very rare. They're either rebels, or people so devoted to Big Brother that the power of their faith grants them divine spells. Those people become the newscasters, the history-book writers, the ones who translate Oldspeak into Newspeak...and the thought police.

I'm thinking that ToB Classes would function as some kind of Police Force, probably under the Clerics. They are a bit to powerful to just run around unchecked, but not powerful enough to worry the Tippies.

Hmmm….the enforcers for the Clerics...that could work, especially for the crusaders.

Looks good.
Hmmm...how would factotums fit into the Tippyverse power structure?
Got it! Factotums can cast arcane spells, which makes them nobility, barely. They're like the working class of the elite. After all, all those skill points and that high intelligence makes them useful, but they're not real spellcasters.


I think that psions, with their many powers to make fine adjustments to minds, are the Committee's mental surgeons, for those cases when a simple mindrape may damage aspects of the subject that are still needed.

Binders? I think binders would be either researchers or heretics, since they pull beings out of the null-planes that not even Tippy can access, let alone conquer. Probably some of both. Sure, why not--researchers, and those who are convinced by the vestiges that Big Brother and the Committee must be destroyed have been corrupted and are hunted as heretics.

Shadowcasters? Yeah, as sorcerors with added curiosity value, or as sorcerors but freaky, depending on who you ask.

Truenamers? Are allowed to live as if they were mages because nobody has the heart to point out how useless they are. They're basically kept as pets by mages who think it's cute how they think they're spellcasters, too.
(That was a joke. Truenamers are pretty much the only non-divine class that gets healing. They're medics. The bards are all to busy writing the illusion-casts, performing the illusion-casts, writing anthems, writing history books, etc.)

Incarnum would be the same as divine magic--except that they never draw their power from Tippy. It's been hunted down almost to extinction because it draws power from the soul and from alignment. It encourages people to have moral values other than "Obey." This is bad. This is thought-crime.

Partial casting classes would be grunts, yeah. Duskblades and hexblades would join the ToB classes as soldiers and police force members.





In order for a dystopian Tippyverse to exist, there would need to be some outside force constantly threatening it. Otherwise, the wizards just sit in their towers all day and enjoy a near-perfect lifestyle. The rest of the population also lives comfortibly, due to all the traps that make life easy.

There is. The Far Realms. Just in case this was never explicitly stated and I just made it up and forgot to tell you: The creatures of the Far Realm have been stirring. A few have even gone through opening portals and into the main Tippyverse. They were defeated, and the government kept it hushed up, but the Committee is beginning to worry.

Religion:

Well that, and all the Tippy Wizards went out and killed the gods themselves. My advice, steal from Warhammer 40k and make the only gods left in the setting (other then big brother and his Arcane Brotherhood) those of the trickster kind. The deities that would run away and hide themselves, rather then standing against the Wizards.

Got it! Emperor Tippy, with Dalmosh stats, was the first wizard. Ever. At all. The 1984 is 1984 YT (Year of Tippy), so 1984 years after his birth. He's ascended to godhood long ago, and the black ethergaunt known only as Big Brother is his high priest and herald, the Chairman of the Committee.

[Flickerdart]

Big Brother Mindrapes everyone. The end. Really, D&D magic makes everything too easy.

[Kallisti]

Big Brother Mindrapes everyone. The end. Really, D&D magic makes everything too easy.

This is exactly why I need help making it believable. But really. Mindrape ha a corruption cost, and requires effort. Big Brother's not going to go mindrape every inhabitant of every plane. There are too many people in the Tippyverse to control directly through magic. You need to make people want to obey. Hence, a 1984-style world, complete with illusion show newscasts and the daily Hate.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The diplomancers work for the Wizard's Guild.

[Kallisti]

The diplomancers work for the Wizard's Guild.

That pretty much sums it up.

But my PCs are rebels, and as PCs immune to diplomancy, Therefore, a campaign is possible, although anyone captured is in big trouble.

[Indon]

The diplomancers work for the Wizard's Guild.

In fact, diplomancy mass-broadcasted across a world (via epic magic if necessary) would function quite well for said 'daily hate'.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The PCs are captured by Beguiler Secret Police and taken in.

"How many lights do you see?"

[Kallisti]

The PCs are captured by Beguiler Secret Police and taken in.

"How many lights do you see?"

This is why they'll need to be very, very careful.

[shadow_archmagi]

The PCs are captured by Beguiler Secret Police and taken in.

"How many lights do you see?"

THERE.

ARE.

FOUR.

LIGHTS.

[Zeta Kai]

Room 101 has three symbols:

Fear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfFear.htm)
Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfPain.htm)
Persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfPersuasion.htm)

Clerics work for the four ministries, & have appropriate domains:

Ministry of Love (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#evilDomain)
Ministry of Peace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#warDomain)
Ministry of Plenty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#destructionDomain)
Ministry of Truth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#trickeryDomain)

Spell traps only create Victory gin, Victory cigarettes, & black bread (at least for the Outer Party & the Proles).

Inner Party members are allowed to be high-level, & often have mind blank cast on themselves.

[Tyndmyr]

I love a setting so dark that a player who sacrifices himself to allow the dark gods from the far realms entry may actually be lauded as a martyr.

[industrious]

Warlocks in Tippyverse '84

Warlocks in the setting are hunted down as perversions of the true arcana. Unable to cast even the most basic spells, they are somehow able to still mimic the effects of some truly powerful magic without need for study, and can even perform feats deemed impossible by wizards. Every warlock that is captured is experimented on in an attempt to understand the mystery.

[Kallisti]

I love a setting so dark that a player who sacrifices himself to allow the dark gods from the far realms entry may actually be lauded as a martyr.

Well, of course. Wouldn't you rather have Cthulhu eat your brain than Tippy and friends Mindrape it...and again...and again...


Warlocks in Tippyverse '84

Warlocks in the setting are hunted down as perversions of the true arcana. Unable to cast even the most basic spells, they are somehow able to still mimic the effects of some truly powerful magic without need for study, and can even perform feats deemed impossible by wizards. Every warlock that is captured is experimented on in an attempt to understand the mystery.
...Aha!
Warlocks need to get their power from pacts with outsiders, right? The warlocks are agents of the far realm. It's perfect...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Warlocks in Tippyverse '84

Warlocks in the setting are hunted down as perversions of the true arcana. Unable to cast even the most basic spells, they are somehow able to still mimic the effects of some truly powerful magic without need for study, and can even perform feats deemed impossible by wizards. Every warlock that is captured is experimented on in an attempt to understand the mystery.

What mystery? It's kinda like being a weaker version of a sorcerer.

[Flickerdart]

Ok then. Warlocks get their power from the Far Realm and Elder Gods, and Binders get their powers from vestiges outside the bounds of reality. The Party can't control those sources. That makes them rather upset and so they kill the Warlocks in the face.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, sorcerers are (to wizards) a weaker version of a wizard. They cast the same basic spells, which makes them much less different/scary.

Warlocks, in addition to being prime targets due to evil tendancies, dealing with outsiders, have different casting. It may not be better, no, but hunting them sheerly because they are different and potentially dangerous seems reasonable.

I can't help but think that truenamers would be equally hunted. Well, in a raw driven world, both truenamers have probably already fallen victim to their own incompetence.

[Flickerdart]

Truenamers would make up the proles, along with all other classes below tier 3. So nobody would give a damn about them.

[Kallisti]

Truenamers would make up the proles, along with all other classes below tier 3. So nobody would give a damn about them.
Actually, I've got something else in mind for the poor truenamers:
Truenamers? Are allowed to live as if they were mages because nobody has the heart to point out how useless they are. They're basically kept as pets by mages who think it's cute how they think they're spellcasters, too.


After all, when you snub a truenamer he gives you the sad puppy-dog eyes:smallfrown:...

(This is a joke. Truenamers are pretty much the only non-divine class that gets any healing.)

[Flickerdart]

(This is a joke. Truenamers are pretty much the only non-divine class that gets any healing.)
Bards, Dragonfire Adepts, Binders probably, likely Incarnum as well, Psions...

[Kallisti]

Bards, Dragonfire Adepts, Binders probably, likely Incarnum as well, Psions...

Psions have healing?


The bards are all to busy writing the illusion-casts, performing the illusion-casts, writing anthems, writing history books, etc. And diplomancing. Actually, bards are pretty damn important in this world...and, since they're all chaotic and have access to the histories, translations, and news, they're watched very, very carefully.

Binders and Incarnum users are heretics and thought criminals.

Dragonfire adept is a PrC and doesn't count. Besides, better to have one class that does nothing (useful) but healing than worry about the sorcerors and healing.

[JeminiZero]

(This is a joke. Truenamers are pretty much the only non-divine class that gets any healing.)


Discounting of course, the Bard, the Tomb Tainted Dread Necromancer, a Shadow Sun Ninja with any negative energy battery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6683488&postcount=11), Binders, Dragon Shamans and Psions.

Another thought, big brother might have enslaved a couple of mindflayers to create an unstoppable loyal enforcer legion of frankenstein trolls (see sig).

Or the mindflayers might be one of the few enemies outside of big brother's reach on another plane thanks to said trolls.

Edit: Big Brother also seems to have an army of ninjas crawling around this thread.

To answer the post above, Psions can
1) Manifest Vigor (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Vigor) for Temp HP
2) Manifest Transfer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Empathic_Transfer) to transfer wounds from others to themselves, thereby effectively curing the other guy, but sacrificing temp HP from Vigor.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Dragonfire adept is a PrC and doesn't count. Besides, better to have one class that does nothing (useful) but healing than worry about the sorcerors and healing.

DFA is a base class.

[Jayngfet]

Warlocks don't NEED to make pacts with anyone for power. In fact like sorcerers they could just have "unusual" heritage.

[imperialspectre]

Suggestion: Tippy (if that's what the name of the Big Boss Person is) is trying to ascend to godhood, and the Two Minute Hate is being used to siphon people's emotions and contribute to Tippy's inevitable ascension.

EDIT: Also, Psions have quite effective healing, although it works most effectively on themselves. Psions are also capable of being possibly better HP tanks than anyone else in the game.

[Kallisti]

DFA is a base class.

...oh. Right. For some reason I thought Red Dragon Adept. Okay, so maybe truenamers aren't the only medics. They'd still be used for that, though, since they're fairly good at it and have nothing more useful to do.


Suggestion: Tippy (if that's what the name of the Big Boss Person is) is trying to ascend to godhood, and the Two Minute Hate is being used to siphon people's emotions and contribute to Tippy's inevitable ascension.

The way we have it set up, Tippy's already a god and Big Brother is his high priest. If anyone were trying to ascend to godhood, they'd prbably be in trouble with Tippy. I like the idea of the Two Minute Hate being used to siphon emotions for power...hmmm...maybe a cadre of refluffed ur-priests?

[Flickerdart]

...oh. Right. For some reason I thought Red Dragon Adept. Okay, so maybe truenamers aren't the only medics. They'd still be used for that, though, since they're fairly good at it and have nothing more useful to do.
Except they can only heal weak people, painfully few times per day, and need a cartload of bling to do it that you could buy Belts of Healing with.

[Gorgondantess]

Suggestion: Tippy (if that's what the name of the Big Boss Person is) is trying to ascend to godhood, and the Two Minute Hate is being used to siphon people's emotions and contribute to Tippy's inevitable ascension.

Why would he want to become a god? Gods are weak. He's more than a god. He's a level 21+ wizard.:smallwink:

[imperialspectre]

Except they can only heal weak people, painfully few times per day, and need a cartload of bling to do it that you could buy Belts of Healing with.

In the Tippyverse, that's resetting traps of Lesser Vigor with a one-round cooldown, kthxbye.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, we've still got scrolls, potions, wands, and of course, magic items. So, there are means of healing, even if many of the traditional methods are....less than popular.

Syphoning off emotions for power is perfect. In the tippyverse, all living things in all their aspects are resources, to be exploited over, and over, and over again.

[Gorgondantess]

...how would the wizards be able to make items that require a cleric only spell?

[Kallisti]

Well, healing items are only for the elite, since divine magic is so rare.

You're all right, though, that truenamers are poor healers. But they have one advantage: Anyone can learn. They won't do it very well with a low Int, and if they had a high int they'd be wizards, but anyone can learn. So they're like witch doctors, healing the proles.

Actually, I like that idea...Truename 'folk magic,' passed down by word of mouth among the proles, and ignored by the Tippies because it's nowhere near as powerful as real magic. Sure, why not?


Syphoning off emotions for power is perfect. In the tippyverse, all living things in all their aspects are resources, to be exploited over, and over, and over again.

And yes, yes it is.

[Cybren]

Gods are weak.
no they're not (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)

[quick_comment]

Crusaders and factotums can also heal.

[Kallisti]

Crusaders and factotums can also heal.

Crusaders are soldiers and policemen, and rare since it requires real force of faith to become one, and factotums...yeah, that's work. But I've already figured out what I want to do with the truenamers...I like the idea of truename hedge wizards and folk magic.

[imperialspectre]

...how would the wizards be able to make items that require a cleric only spell?

Independently researching a spell that duplicated the effect of Lesser Vigor. RAW is your friend.

Alternatively, do CLW and make the bards help. It's less efficient per casting, but if you don't have to pay for each new casting (say, constantly-resetting trap) it provides more healing per round.

[Gorgondantess]

no they're not (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)

Deities don't get epic spellcasting. Wizards win.

[quiet1mi]

I always imagined Tippyverse to be an inverse of shadowrun. Magic has always existed and people are recently learning about technology. Think about it, something that is undetectable with magic and cannot be dispelled.

I also Imagined multiple Tippie Nations that interpret Tippy a different way. They all do the above to their Subjects but will send "Adventures" out to steal/sabotage/destroy things/people in other nations...

Otherwise you get a game of paranoia...

[Kallisti]

I always imagined Tippyverse to be an inverse of shadowrun. Magic has always existed and people are recently learning about technology. Think about it, something that is undetectable with magic and cannot be dispelled.

I also Imagined multiple Tippie Nations that interpret Tippy a different way. They all do the above to their Subjects but will send "Adventures" out to steal/sabotage/destroy things/people in other nations...

Otherwise you get a game of paranoia...

I think we've gone the Paranoia route here. With wizards. And Tippy.

[Tyndmyr]

I always imagined Tippyverse to be an inverse of shadowrun. Magic has always existed and people are recently learning about technology. Think about it, something that is undetectable with magic and cannot be dispelled.

I also Imagined multiple Tippie Nations that interpret Tippy a different way. They all do the above to their Subjects but will send "Adventures" out to steal/sabotage/destroy things/people in other nations...

Otherwise you get a game of paranoia...

Oh, I definitely expect the different nations...or planes if you will. Whatever area is large enough for a council member or equivalent to rule....they will likely have a certain flavor. They may even be at war with another sector...albeit a far less important war than the conflict with the far realms.

However, the defining factor of tippyverse is "wizards are on top". By definition, epic level wizards are a rare breed compared to humanity as a whole, and likely want to keep it that way. So, governments will almost universally be strongly hierarchial, and very authoritarian in nature. I don't really see anything like democracy as likely.

So, one area may be more Brave New World in style, another more 1984....but none of them are terribly free.

[Kallisti]

Oh, I definitely expect the different nations...or planes if you will. Whatever area is large enough for a council member or equivalent to rule....they will likely have a certain flavor. They may even be at war with another sector...albeit a far less important war than the conflict with the far realms.

However, the defining factor of tippyverse is "wizards are on top". By definition, epic level wizards are a rare breed compared to humanity as a whole, and likely want to keep it that way. So, governments will almost universally be strongly hierarchial, and very authoritarian in nature. I don't really see anything like democracy as likely.

So, one area may be more Brave New World in style, another more 1984....but none of them are terribly free.

Well, planes and cities are welcome to go to war as long as they don't screw things up for Big Brother. After all, with Ghost Lock and Animate Dead, for every prole killed in the war Big Brother gets a worker...he loses however much labor they'd have done in their natural lives, but that's a small price to pay to keep the peoples happy and compliant.

Although they'll all have a relatively strong 1984 presence because the 1984-style Committee rules pretty much the entire Tippyverse except the far realms.

[quick_comment]

Deities don't get epic spellcasting. Wizards win.

First, they can take epic feats, second, arcane mastery SDA lets the gods cast spells without reseaching them. Also, gods can create artifacts which can do anything, even negate all epic spells in a ten million mile radius.

[Kallisti]

First, they can take epic feats, second, arcane mastery SDA lets the gods cast spells without reseaching them. Also, gods can create artifacts which can do anything, even negate all epic spells in a ten million mile radius.

Which is why Tippy was so eager to get his godhood, and is so determined to be the only one now that he has it.

[Tyndmyr]

First, they can take epic feats, second, arcane mastery SDA lets the gods cast spells without reseaching them. Also, gods can create artifacts which can do anything, even negate all epic spells in a ten million mile radius.

Gods are still subject to rules. Negating all epic spells in a ten million mile radius might be technically possible, but it's not something you can just do without thinking about it.

Gods can do a ridiculous amount...but when facing other dieties, especially dieties of similar ranks, things get very difficult indeed. If any gods still exist that are not bound in some manner to the tippites(speaking of which, I vote we dub the capital city Tipperary. It's a long ways away though.), those gods are hiding somewhere. Use of god-like powers is not terribly likely to go undetected....

[quick_comment]

Gods are still subject to rules.

Not really.... (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Craft_Artifact_%28Divine_Ability%29)

And dont forget that deities are prescient.

[Random832]

Independently researching a spell that duplicated the effect of Lesser Vigor. RAW is your friend.

As I recall, RAW says the DM gets to decide, and recommends against allowing spells that step on other classes' "thing"s. Now, granted, the first bit defeats the whole purpose of the Tippyverse, but a real "RAW-heavy" world would consider the second part to be law.

Without that, why not just research a 1st-level spell called "I Win"? Much easier than having Pun-Pun grant himself an extraordinary ability by the same name.

[imperialspectre]

As I recall, RAW says the DM gets to decide, and recommends against allowing spells that step on other classes' "thing"s. Now, granted, the first bit defeats the whole purpose of the Tippyverse, but a real "RAW-heavy" world would consider the second part to be law.

Without that, why not just research a 1st-level spell called "I Win"? Much easier than having Pun-Pun grant himself an extraordinary ability by the same name.

1st-level spells have to be balanced in terms of effects with other 1st-level spells. They do not, however, necessarily have to conform to an archetype assumed by a specific class.

Also, sorcerers can learn spells outside the sorc/wiz spell list by RAW, so that's another way around the spell list issue. Make your pet sorcerer learn Lesser Vigor and then craft the traps.

[olentu]

Also, sorcerers can learn spells outside the sorc/wiz spell list by RAW, so that's another way around the spell list issue. Make your pet sorcerer learn Lesser Vigor and then craft the traps.

Though it requires permission.

[Randel]

Oh, just tossing this out because I mentioned something similar in the thread about what to do with 40,000 kobold followers.

Ploymorph any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) can turn kobolds into dragons (probably... I'm not 100% sure on the ruling).

So in a Tippyverse where epic level spellcasters have unlimited money and all the time in the world to make resetting magic traps... they can turn anyone into anything anytime they want!

grab some kobolds, mindrape them, turn them into dragons, and then send them out to beat up whatever monsters or fighters are making a nuicance of themselves and the wizards don't want to waste spells handling it.

That, and you can do other stuff like take weak hobos that flunked out of 'being mindraped' school and then have them shoved through a Polymorph into an Ogre trap and you've got yourself a brand new ogre to fight in the arena! His intelligence doesn't change (which means that you can't make wizards with the polymorph trap) but then again they don't really have to care about the intelligence of whatever they toss into the polymorpher.

The duration of the polymorph does vary on what is put into the trap, so some targets might get transformed permanantly while at the very least you're looking at a 20 minute transformation.

So if hypothetically one of the wizards had a "Polymorph into an attractive human woman" trap then he could send humans through it to have them permanently gender-changed, permanently transform any humanoid creature regardless of their original race (maybe turn all the dwarves and elves into humans for 'uniformity'), he could turn all sorts of animals into human women for... less than noble purposes and at they would probably revert back in a week or less. And if he gets bored he could toss stuff like pebbles or silverware into it and get mindless vegetables to mess with for 20 minutes before they revert back into their normal shape.

Then, you have the nefarious Cat Assassins. Members of the secret police who have been polymorphed into cats so that they go about undetected and spy on enemies who might have some way of evading magical detection (though most of them were just transformed because the wizard thought it was funny and this position goes to the lowliest positions in the force).

And... even nastier, if these wizards have the power to turn peoples species around with traps they can probably just magically conjure up people out of nowhere. Imagine them having workers carving blocks of stone into human shapes, sending the statue through a 'stone to flesh' trap, and then the fleshy statue through a 'Polymorph to human' trap that turns it into a full-grown person. Sure that person has the IQ of a lump of stone, but I'm sure theres some spells that can mindrape him into doing whatever demeaning task is needed... and a task that they don't want smelly undead doing.

Things like reproduction and marriage could be seen in completly different ways depending on which Head Wizard is in charge of the community. Some might decree that all reproduction must be handled by the state through their use of magic to make sure that all subjects are controlled from beginning to end. Some might outright ban all sexual activity "since its a messy animal urge and offenders need to be reeducated" while others might say "Hey, its cool! You can do anything to anyone anyway you like because we've got every healing trap you can think of and even death and dismemberment is only a true resurrection trap away... just be sure do it near one of the many scrying sensors set up in the city. Oh yeah."


So, I can imagine it like being a massive empire spanning across numerous planes. And the various cities are under the control of wizards of various ranks. Some might handle their cities in a strict fashion while others are more lenient (or they give the impression of being lenient and in fact are just as strick if not more so... but in slightly different ways).

The lives of non-wizards are cheap since they can be polymorphed five ways from sunday to suit whatever 'job' the wizard in charge has for them, mind-control is the same if not worse, and even death can be reversed with the right traps.

And even dead-but-not-resurrected is no guarantee since a true Tippyverse government would be able to invade whatever afterlife planes exist.


The only resistances that could go against them would be the planes with infinite occupants willing to fight against them. The worlds in which magic doesn't function might have a chance but any oppressive wizard government could just get a massive army of soldiers equipped with mundane weapons to invade an conquer those realms... though if their soldiers just go native in the mundane world as soon as they step through then thats just a minor setback.

If Tippyverse wizards wanted to invade modern Earth they might have some problems if their magic didn't work here, but they could probably get by by throwing rocks through the gateway at high speeds with Reverse Gravity loops or even pouring troops, monsters, fire, acid, or whatever unlimited amounts of toxic gas they felt like conjuring up on their side through the gate until Earths ecosystem stopped working. And even then we should pray that they don't know enough about physics to do the anti-matter cheese.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Though it requires permission.

Technically, everything does.

[olentu]

Technically, everything does.

But some things are more permission requiring than others.

[Johel]

About the world setting :
Something you might want to check.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/%C3%9Cberstadt

It's about one of the "Big Citadel" or at least the way they could work.
Just replace the various monster races by your usual elf, human, gnome,...


Warlocks, in addition to being prime targets due to evil tendancies, dealing with outsiders, have different casting. It may not be better, no, but hunting them sheerly because they are different and potentially dangerous seems reasonable.

Or, since they are the blood heirs of some dude who "experienced" with powers beyond his control (demonic pact, trip to the far realm, necromancy goes south, failed transmutation,...), I'll see them precisely the way WE, humans, use dogs :

Attack warlocks
Pet warlocks
Guinea pig warlocks
Magical component warlocks
...


They are actually bred by wizards for the purpose of having an army of low level mooks who can cast weak spells at will (hence being superior to fighter-type in many respect) without the need for much training beside the "education" (mind rape, domination, modify memory, you call it).

The good ones become guards or something. The weak ones become guinea pigs or magical components. Those with desirable powers are used for breeding while the rest is just eventually used in the conflict with the other planes once they outlive their purpose. In a "nice" version, breeding warlocks would be treated fairly well. In a grimdark version, expect them to be stripped to magical device to suck them dry (litteraly) to insure perfect fecondation conditions.

About the "unconquered" other planes, we got :
The Far Realm :
Practically a "nobody comes back" frontline. The "über Ithillids" who are "in charge" (aka, they mind to answer you, unlike Cthulhu's little brothers) of the place have legions of abberation spawn to throw at you and even without that, most "volunteers" die horribly in mere minutes. Cosmic horrors will make you part of them...and you scream forever...but you have no mouth. Basically, a place where you send the trash of society so that people remember them as heroes rather than as misfits (because, after all, THEY ARE NO MISFITS IN OUR SOCIETY !! BEING A MISFIT IS FORBIDDEN !! THINKING THAT MISFITS EXIST IS A THOUGHT-CRIME. THOUGHT CRIMINAL SHALL BE REEDUCATED !!) or something like that...
The Abyss :
Infinite size, probably infinite number of demons. Big Brother has several outposts and beachheads but the sheer human cost of making progress is such that the frontline is mainly static, with one of the Commitee's member stepping in once a very good tactical opportunity shows itself but otherwise just "probing" the way with thousands of meatshields. That's actually the "nice" frontline, since demons will just kill you right away. Worst case, your soul's enslaved for a few centuries. Far better than anything else that happen on the other frontlines.

[PhoenixRivers]

For Trap Construction... The engineers and maintenance men:

Artificers.

UMD to fake the divine if they need it, so that properly loyal citizens can still have access to Traps of Lesser Vigor, and Cure Disease.

After all, the proper clerics would be far too busy enforcing Big Brother's will, and the Bards are all on the Two Minute Hate... If delivered via epic spell, might it just be called the Thoughtcast?

[olentu]

With all the stuff they are messing around with mechanus might be an antagonistic plane.

[PhoenixRivers]

With all the stuff they are messing around with mechanus might be an antagonistic plane.

Oh, I don't know. This is as pure an order as has ever existed. It's evil, but it's absolute order, even going so far as to police and purge disorderly thought.

[olentu]

Oh, I don't know. This is as pure an order as has ever existed. It's evil, but it's absolute order, even going so far as to police and purge disorderly thought.

Well they would probably at least get invasions of maruts and quaruts. Also varakhuts if they threaten the gods.

[PhoenixRivers]

Invasions would likely only occur if there were corruptions within the Order.

Mechanus is as uncaring a place as ever existed... Even of itself.

[Myrmex]

What about souls as currency?

[PhoenixRivers]

What about souls as currency?

Mechanus is rather apathetic on the good vs evil debate.

[olentu]

Invasions would likely only occur if there were corruptions within the Order.

Mechanus is as uncaring a place as ever existed... Even of itself.

Well I suppose taking only the printed ineviatables I remember if one does not have much unnatural extension of life spans including the use of raise dead type spells repeatedly or on a massive scale, the use of powerful magic such as limited wish, wish, miracle, temporal stasis, time stop, and wish, and no one tries to usurp the power of the gods the inevitables wold not be a problem. However assuming that these things do happen ineviatables do respond to repeated defeats with changing tactics.

I also vaguely recall that formians are rather expansionist. And then ther are the modrons but I can recall little about them.

[Gorgondantess]

So if hypothetically one of the wizards had a "Polymorph into an attractive human woman" trap then he could send humans through it to have them permanently gender-changed, permanently transform any humanoid creature regardless of their original race (maybe turn all the dwarves and elves into humans for 'uniformity'), he could turn all sorts of animals into human women for... less than noble purposes and at they would probably revert back in a week or less.


...Why, pray tell, would he want to do that when he can cast summon monster and grab a succubus or a pleasure devil? Or any of the other female outsiders...:smalltongue:

[Johel]

...Why, pray tell, would he want to do that when he can cast summon monster and grab a succubus or a pleasure devil? Or any of the other female outsiders...:smalltongue:

Level drain ? A 20th level Wizard is a hell of a tasty meal for your average seductress from the Outer Planes. And you don't wear a lot of magical item when negociating with that kind of demons so... :smallwink:

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Soulfire Mithral Twilight Feycraft Chain Shirt. Scarab of Protection. Condom of Deathward.

[PhoenixRivers]

...Why, pray tell, would he want to do that when he can cast summon monster and grab a succubus or a pleasure devil? Or any of the other female outsiders...:smalltongue:

5 words.

One round per caster level.

A level 20 wizard who extends a summon monster spell gets, let's see....

4 minutes.

While granted, he can command them not to use their level drain/etc abilities... That's just not the right time frame we're looking for.

Lesser Planar Binding could do it. Succubi are 6 HD, and 1 day/level sounds like a much more leisurely time frame.

[Johel]

5 words.

One round per caster level.

A level 20 wizard who extends a summon monster spell gets, let's see....

4 minutes.

While granted, he can command them not to use their level drain/etc abilities... That's just not the right time frame we're looking for.

Lesser Planar Binding could do it. Succubi are 6 HD, and 1 day/level sounds like a much more leisurely time frame.

I've just realised :
Why exactly did you write about Summon Monster, already ?
Because a Dire Badger isn't what you want for that kind of thing... well, usually... I'm not questionning your tastes :smalltongue:

Succubi :
He can command them not to use the ability but yet, there's no garantee : they are demons and they'll just be back in their home plan is something happen...
Also, much easier to just "honor" a local cute she-citizen.
Maybe she'll get a 2-day ration of higher grade food.

[PhoenixRivers]

I've just realised :
Why exactly did you write about Summon Monster, already ?
Because a Dire Badger isn't what you want for that kind of thing... well, usually... I'm not questionning your tastes :smalltongue:A Janni certainly would be in line though. And many, if not most, demons, can be summoned by some form of summon monster. Some of the Fiendish Codexes expand on this. Succubi are demons.


Succubi :
He can command them not to use the ability but yet, there's no garantee : they are demons and they'll just be back in their home plan is something happen...
Also, much easier to just "honor" a local cute she-citizen.
Maybe she'll get a 2-day ration of higher grade food.
Actually, there is a guarantee. The spells which do these things? Compel obedience. The nature of the creature is irrelevant to the nature of the spell.

Now, Gate + Mindrape would be the ideal way for the discerning elite to have his pick of any creature in the multiverse. The moral implications are out there... But then, the moral implications went out the window with the number 1984.

As for "easier"? You're right, it is easier. So much so that some random commoner was probably doing it last week. No, mages do better. Why? Because they can.

500 year old demon, knowledgable in the art of seduction, able to melt the hearts of the average mortal man...

or the farmer's daughter?

[jseah]

500 year old demon, knowledgable in the art of seduction, able to melt the hearts of the average mortal man...

or the farmer's daughter?
Hey, even wizards get bored. Some of them might even want to try the *ahem* rough side.

#######################

That said, I think the overarching feel the players of this setting should get is not one of the many themes in 1984.

The main thing that should be prevalent in this setting is: Pride.

The wizards behave like they own the multiverse. Because they do. They take what they want, caring naught else but for the continuation of this situation.

The players should literally be able to feel the MASSIVE hubris the wizards have. And then not be able to do a thing about it. Because their "overconfidence" is justified. For the wizards, there's no such thing as overconfidence.

Really, what's unique about this whole thing is the unlimited ego the wizards have, with the unlimited power to back it up.

######################

This is mainly due to the fact that any credible opposition doesn't exist. I'm sure people here are familiar with the Quantum Radar? Yes, Tippy wizards have enough resources to pull off a small one (14.4K questions per day is a lot and can be easily increased) without resorting to tricks like Assume Supernatural Ability: Air Weird.

[Johel]

As for "easier"? You're right, it is easier. So much so that some random commoner was probably doing it last week. No, mages do better. Why? Because they can.
:smallsmile: +1

The main thing that should be prevalent in this setting is: Pride.


See above.

[Mercenary Pen]

No, mages do better. Why? Because they can.

500 year old demon, knowledgable in the art of seduction, able to melt the hearts of the average mortal man...

or the farmer's daughter?

A sufficiently powerful wizard might well go for both. By this stage he'd probably have the XP batteries and subservient (for whatever reason and by whatever spell) casters to produce rods of both Dominate person and Lesser Planar Binding, and he'd probably be creating his own spell storing items for Big Gun spells like mindrape... Besides, part of the pomp and circumstance of such an all-powerful individual would be the possession of a harem.


However, entry into the citadel of the wizard (assuming this wasn't extradimensional) might be somewhat difficult due to the potential availability of resetting mindrape traps.

[Flickerdart]

However, entry into the citadel of the wizard (assuming this wasn't extradimensional) might be somewhat difficult due to the potential availability of resetting mindrape traps.
The harem is made up of would-be intruders? Amusing.

[woodenbandman]

For the war aspect: Since there are no nations in the traditional sense there has to be some uniting THING that casues people to ally with one another. Perhaps a set of Arcane Marks, which trigger X amount of traps if you try to teleport VIA teleportation circle without one.

As there's no land mass identified as a country, the typical hypothetical war scenario presented in 1984 would change slightly. For the most part the 1984 feel can be accomplished without magic, but the room 101 stuff would be better served with magic.

A good twist on the whole thing would be if the entire scenario of 3 nations perpetually allied and at war with each other were all manipulated by a single wizard "Tippy," and the leaders of the different countries were all merely simulacra of Tippy. He need not even be epic level. If you set it up right, death at the hands of the real emperor tippy could be a great cap to a campaign.

[Johel]

A good twist on the whole thing would be if the entire scenario of 3 nations perpetually allied and at war with each other were all manipulated by a single wizard "Tippy," and the leaders of the different countries were all merely simulacra of Tippy. He need not even be epic level. If you set it up right, death at the hands of the real emperor tippy could be a great cap to a campaign.

THIS !!
You just broke the whole Tippyverse, thank you !!

Can somebody calculate the cost of an auto-reset Simulacrum Trap ?
Even if it had to be manually triggered, that's going to be awesome.
A 20th level Wizard who just pin out one of his hair, grind some snow in the machine and switch it on... TADAAAAAA !!! I got my own 10th level bodyguard. Repeat two times a day for a year. Enjoy your absolute power, as you now have an infinite number of 5th level spellslots.

And unlike the chain "mindraped Solars" combo, you don't have to worry about "raw material" : there's a lot more snow than there's Solars, after all. Also, XP battery are covered, right ?

[Dragonus45]

On the subject of unconquered plains. I didn't notice anyone mention Sigil. If planescape is involved i would love to see this mortal fool tippy pick a fight with the Lady of Pain.

[Tyndmyr]

Mmmm, that is a very interesting side story...how do you kill the lady of pain, after all?

[Myrmex]

Mechanus is rather apathetic on the good vs evil debate.

I meant in the Tippyverse in general, not in relation to Mechanus.

[Dragonus45]

Mmmm, that is a very interesting side story...how do you kill the lady of pain, after all?



The Lady of Pain kills immortals and mind rapes gods. You dont kill her, you avoid her at all costs and hope to god you dont screw up the balance of the multiverse. The reason i bring it up is that the fastest inter planer travel you can make is through Sigil. And without free movement taking everything over is is a lot of hassle.

[technophile]

Regarding healing, I would think that archivists would be a perfect fit. They research and cast spells very similarly to wizards, they don't worship gods, but they can cast any divine spell -- sort of reflavoring divine magic as arcane magic, which seems right up Tippy's alley ("wizards have always been able to cast Heal").

[Tyndmyr]

The Lady of Pain kills immortals and mind rapes gods. You dont kill her, you avoid her at all costs and hope to god you dont screw up the balance of the multiverse. The reason i bring it up is that the fastest inter planer travel you can make is through Sigil. And without free movement taking everything over is is a lot of hassle.

She's ridiculously powerful, yes...but not limitless, and I don't know that her power extends outside of Sigil...well, to the same degree as it exists inside it. I could see Sigil actually being an enclave not under the wizards rule...not that the wizards would want anyone to talk about it or go there.

Sure, the inability to enter Sigil would be a problem for the tippites, but certainly not an insurmountable one.

[Xenogears]

With the lady of pain there are really only two options. Either you stat her out as some unimaginably powerful being and then watch the tippy wizards destroy her or you make her a giant dm fiat.

All in all I think the Tippyverse 1984 thing works much better if she doesn't exist. If there is a possibility of escape it's not 1984 enough.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Sigil... good point.

I'd say it's just under interdiction. Think West Berlin. Sure. it is technically free, but cut off from resources, and without any way of reaching friendly territory. The Lady of Pain doesn't care, as the Tippies aren't breaking her rules.

[lyko555]

Um is there a reason that you couldnt make Sigil the "far realm"???
Its near impossible to invade cause no matter how much of an army they could send in the Lady would just maze em all with a thought.

[Tackyhillbillu]

"The Far Realm" is an existent place in D&D base cosmology. It sucks there.

[Mercenary Pen]

I get the strange impression that there is an important name missing from this particular project... Cindy

I just can't quite think what it is.

[kopout]

I get the strange impression that there is an important name missing from this particular project... Cindy

I just can't quite think what it is.

Tippy?:smalltongue:


Also about divine magic a mind raped god or two could be the focus for clerics. Or even a church without a god, cleric of a cause anyone?

[Mercenary Pen]

Tippy?:smalltongue:

Nope, I'm pretty sure Tippy has been mentioned more than sufficiently. Maybe you should search for clues as to who I might have been trying to recall...

[kopout]

Well I meant he's not here.

[Kallisti]

If Tippy showed up for my TIppyverse game...I don't know what I'd do.

Hey, guys! I go to school and you write three pages:smalleek:?

Okay, responses to what I managed to absorb in my speed-read:

Polymorph: *Shudder* I hadn't even started on that can of worms. I think the idea of being "customized" for a specific job makes sonse, except that all of the physical labor is done by the random commoners, fighters CW samurai, etc. The proles. It doesn't matter if they're inefficient workers, as long as the job gets done. I can imagine "customizing" soldiers being sent off into the Far Realm or the Abyss, though.

Sigil: Good point. I think I'll go with the "they cut off all the portals from the other side and starved out the inhabitants, but because they didn't technically break any rules, the Lady didn't come out to fight."

Mechanus: Have you seen how weak inevitables are compared to a fully optimized Tippy wizard army? Conquered...

Souls as currency: They're evil, but they're not fiends. That wou;d serve no purpose. Although I toyed with the idea of an XP-based economy, I rejected it because it would create a lot of headaches with players and treasure...

Harems: :smallyuk:Squick...Also, there probably are wizards like that. and wizards who aren't. Since it varies wizard-to-wizard, I don't think we need to figure it out here. Although, whoever mentioned the idea of mindrape traps/a harem composed of would-be intruders? Yeah, my PC's should be pretty damn careful when trying to enter fortresses:smallamused:...

Infinite Tippy clones making nations dance under their fingers like the puppets and pawns they are: Made of win. And I have plans. My players read this thread, so I won't say what, but oh, I have plans:smallamused:...

[olentu]

Mechanus: Have you seen how weak inevitables are compared to a fully optimized Tippy wizard army? Conquered...

Almost everything compares badly with a fully optimized Tippy wizard army so I would think that the abyss would be conquered with about equal ease as mechanus.

[Kallisti]

Almost everything compares badly with a fully optimized Tippy wizard army so I would think that the abyss would be conquered with about equal ease as mechanus.

Except that it's infinite. At this point, the Tippies have pretty much given up on conquest of the Abyass. They've poofed in and finished off the demon lords. But they can't be seen giving up. That would be bad for morale. So they send soldiers out to the Abyss to die, so they can save face. How you appear is everything in the TIppyverse.

[olentu]

Except that it's infinite. At this point, the Tippies have pretty much given up on conquest of the Abyass. They've poofed in and finished off the demon lords. But they can't be seen giving up. That would be bad for morale. So they send soldiers out to the Abyss to die, so they can save face. How you appear is everything in the TIppyverse.

Mechanus is also infinite.

Edit: Well at least from what I remember.

[Kallisti]

Mechanus is also infinite.

...it is? The Manual of the Planes says the cogs hang in an infinite void, but not that there is an infinite number of cogs, nor that the cogs are infinite in size.

Pretty much al the planes are labeled as infinite, when they're not. You have to be careful. The Abyss is infinite not in that is hangs in an infinite void, but in that it has an infinite number of layers.

[olentu]

...it is? The Manual of the Planes says the cogs hang in an infinite void, but not that there is an infinite number of cogs, nor that the cogs are infinite in size.

Pretty much al the planes are labeled as infinite, when they're not. You have to be careful. The Abyss is infinite not in that is hangs in an infinite void, but in that it has an infinite number of layers.

Ah I was remembering the quote "If the void of Mechanus is infinite, then the cogs must also be numberless."

[Kallisti]

Ah I was remembering the quote "If the void of Mechanus is infinite, then the cogs must also be numberless."

Where is that from? If you can find it I'll have to figure out something more for Mechanus than a handwaved "conquered." Although the Committee represents a perfect, absolute law and order. The denizens of Mechanus...might not want to fight.

[olentu]

Where is that from? If you can find it I'll have to figure out something more for Mechanus than a handwaved "conquered." Although the Committee represents a perfect, absolute law and order. The denizens of Mechanus...might not want to fight.

Well as I was looking it up to see if I remembered incorrectly it is manual of the planes page 129 directly under other sites on mechanus.

[Kallisti]

Well as I was looking it up to see if I remembered incorrectly it is manual of the planes page 129 directly under other sites on mechanus.

...You're right...

...All right, so. Mechanus. The main denizens, are:

The Inevitables: Just got the perfect order they've always dreamed of. Are pretty satisfied to let the Tippies rule.
Formians: Have a single center cog, and are therefore crushed.
The Modron: I know next-to-nothing about them, so someone else will need to figure something out. It does say that they're only on 64 cogs, so they'd be enslaved.

I think the big reason the Abyss is unconquered is that it has an infinite number of inhabited layers, but no central power that could be taken out to make the rest moot.

[olentu]

...You're right...

...All right, so. Mechanus. The main denizens, are:

The Inevitables: Just got the perfect order they've always dreamed of. Are pretty satisfied to let the Tippies rule.
Formians: Have a single center cog, and are therefore crushed.
The Modron: I know next-to-nothing about them, so someone else will need to figure something out. It does say that they're only on 64 cogs, so they'd be enslaved.

I think the big reason the Abyss is unconquered is that it has an infinite number of inhabited layers, but no central power that could be taken out to make the rest moot.

My contention was that the inevitables do not care about order they care about specific laws that (taking only printed inevitables though that leaves only a small number of cosmic laws) involve unnatural extension of life spans, using powerful magic, and usurping the powers of the gods and some others that are probably not relevant being breaking oaths, fleeing justice, and I think messing up the desert. One could be the most orderly lawful person who brings order wherever they can but having broken one of these laws would still get inevitables out to kill you and any accomplices that get in their way.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I suppose the elemental planes are unconquered, but then again, who wants to own an infinite ball of rock anyway?

[Kallisti]

My contention was that the inevitables do not care about order they care about specific laws that (taking only printed inevitables though that leaves only a small number of cosmic laws) involve unnatural extension of life spans, using powerful magic, and usurping the powers of the gods and some others that are probably not relevant being breaking oaths, fleeing justice, and I think messing up the desert. One could be the most orderly lawful person who brings order wherever they can but having broken one of these laws would still get inevitables out to kill you and any accomplices that get in their way.

Hmm... Could be. But, since it is possible to break a law that has inevitables to protect it, even to do so repeatedly, and not draw the wrath of an inevitable, there must be a relatively small number of them. Therefore, there are a relatively small number of factories, Therefore, they can be defeated.

[olentu]

Hmm... Could be. But, since it is possible to break a law that has inevitables to protect it, even to do so repeatedly, and not draw the wrath of an inevitable, there must be a relatively small number of them. Therefore, there are a relatively small number of factories, Therefore, they can be defeated.

While I can not recall the rules going into detail one could certainly rule it that way. So one just ends up with planes that are for all intents and purposes conquered as any major enemies have been killed (demon lords, gods, and so forth). People are just sent to these planes to fight for no reason. That seems about right for what one would be going for.

[Kallisti]

While I can not recall the rules going into detail one could certainly rule it that way. So one just ends up with planes that are for all intents and purposes conquered as any major enemies have been killed (demon lords, gods, and so forth). People are just sent to these planes to fight for no reason. That seems about right for what one would be going for.

This is pretty much how I'm dealing with most of the planes. They're effectively conquered, even if not all the space is being used and watched. After all, the PCs need some places to be realtivle safe-ish temporarily.

[Mushroom Ninja]

After all, the PCs need some places to be realtivle safe-ish temporarily.

I'm afraid... very afraid.

[Kallisti]

I'm afraid... very afraid.

Good. That's wise...

[Mushroom Ninja]

So, how does The Party seek out thoughtcrime? I suppose they could have agents walking around with Detect thoughts running, but they'd need a lot of agents doing that to keep up a constant surveillance.

[Kallisti]

So, how does The Party seek out thoughtcrime? I suppose they could have agents walking around with Detect thoughts running, but they'd need a lot of agents doing that to keep up a constant surveillance.

Doppelgangers get constant detect thoughts...

...and they watch you and your facial expressions. Face-crime is thought-crime...

...and they conquered the Plane of Dreams. Dream-crime is thought-crime...

...and I'll probably think of more later.

[technophile]

Scrying, to detect people having illegal conversations/items/meeting suspiciously.

Convincing people to turn their friends/neighbors/parents/children/siblings/cousins in, for their own good (or rewards, or out of fear, or any combination).

Pretty much the same way authoritarian regimes do in the actual 1984, or in real life.

[Mushroom Ninja]

...and they conquered the Plane of Dreams. Dream-crime is thought-crime...


What book is the Plane of Dreams from? I remember reading about it recently, but I don't remember where...

[Kallisti]

What book is the Plane of Dreams from? I remember reading about it recently, but I don't remember where...

Manual of the Planes. it's one of the appendices. Careful what you dream, citizen. Dream-crime is thought-crime. All Hail Big Brother!

[Tyndmyr]

What book is the Plane of Dreams from? I remember reading about it recently, but I don't remember where...

Probably from someone reading Sandman.

The idea of being actually hunted in your dreams is certainly an interesting twist on D&D, though.

[PhoenixRivers]

I get the strange impression that there is an important name missing from this particular project... Cindy

I just can't quite think what it is.

Cindy was essentially a SoL mage with metamagic reductions and direct damage potential. She'd be in the ruling mage bodies, most likely.

[Project_Mayhem]

The talk of Sigil reminded me - isn't the centre of the Outlands immune to magic in a large area emanating from the spire? This technically infinite (I think) area could be problematic

[olentu]

The talk of Sigil reminded me - isn't the centre of the Outlands immune to magic in a large area emanating from the spire? This technically infinite (I think) area could be problematic

I believe that there are magic items that can get around the limited magic trait of planes.

[Milskidasith]

So what's the chain of power for casters, in the end?

I was thinking it would be something like this, with the most powerful at the top.

Wizards = Above all.
Psions = Mental Surgeons, specialized taskforces. They've got things that Wizards don't, so wizards don't waste epic spell slots.
Bards = Newscasters, diplomancers, etc. They keep the proles in check, and while not powerful, their sheer ability to keep everybody happy is enough to warrant a high rank.
Sorcerers = Weaker wizards. Probably used as EXP batteries and specialized taskforces for things lower level wizards don't want to risk their lives on.
Clerics = The few that worship Big Brother (whether willingly or through psionic reeducation) strongly enough have a good position (probably above sorcs) and those clerics who worship other ideals are all dead or reeducated.
Truenamers: They're doctors, but at least they're consistent, unlike those clerics, who might not be worshpping Big Brother.
Partial/Specialized casters = Outer party members or reeducated into arena slaves. Some specialized casters may have their own uses in specialized fields (see Bards for the strongest of them), but Sorcerers can be trained to be anything you want and any Psion worth his 18 starting intelligence can change everything about himself with a simple chargeup in the arena and ten minutes of quiet reverance to Big Brother.
Druids = Big Brother is the only natural thing. Everything else is unnatural. Reverence to anything besides Big Brother will be met with reeducation.
Melee characters = Proles.
Commoners = A joke Big Brother plays to keep us happy.

[Pie Guy]

Kill all rats. You can't be too careful.

[PhoenixRivers]

So what's the chain of power for casters, in the end?

I was thinking it would be something like this, with the most powerful at the top.

Wizards = Above all.
Psions = Mental Surgeons, specialized taskforces. They've got things that Wizards don't, so wizards don't waste epic spell slots.
Artificers = Engineers, specialized creation experts. Able to satisfy the Divine Magic Requirements that the realm has, without the pesky competing ideology. These caster/crafters greatly raise standards of living, which makes it much easier for everyone to do their jobs. In addition, they are quite able to craft items for the discerning mage to amplify spells per day cheaply and efficiently.
Bards = Newscasters, diplomancers, etc. They keep the proles in check, and while not powerful, their sheer ability to keep everybody happy is enough to warrant a high rank.
Sorcerers = Weaker wizards. Probably used as EXP batteries and specialized taskforces for things lower level wizards don't want to risk their lives on.
Clerics = The few that worship Big Brother (whether willingly or through psionic reeducation) strongly enough have a good position (probably above sorcs) and those clerics who worship other ideals are all dead or reeducated.
Truenamers: They're doctors, but at least they're consistent, unlike those clerics, who might not be worshpping Big Brother.
Partial/Specialized casters = Outer party members or reeducated into arena slaves. Some specialized casters may have their own uses in specialized fields (see Bards for the strongest of them), but Sorcerers can be trained to be anything you want and any Psion worth his 18 starting intelligence can change everything about himself with a simple chargeup in the arena and ten minutes of quiet reverance to Big Brother.
Druids = Big Brother is the only natural thing. Everything else is unnatural. Reverence to anything besides Big Brother will be met with reeducation.
Melee characters = Proles.
Commoners = A joke Big Brother plays to keep us happy.

Added Artificer in there.

[Kris Strife]

what about evocation, soul meld and vestige users?

[Oslecamo]

Hmm... Could be. But, since it is possible to break a law that has inevitables to protect it, even to do so repeatedly, and not draw the wrath of an inevitable, there must be a relatively small number of them. Therefore, there are a relatively small number of factories, Therefore, they can be defeated.

Well, the main issue here is that an infinite can be smaller than another infinite.

So, there could be infinite inevitables, BUT there's also an infinite amount of chaotic fiends on the Abyss, and an infinite amount of whackos in the plane of chaos, and so on, all breaking laws.

Thus, altough the inevitables are infinite, they must deal with an ever bigger grade of infinite, and so cannot deal with all problems.

My vote would however have to go to Tippy finding a way to corrupt some factories, and from there create a "cancer" inside Mechanus, whereas the inevitables couldn't stop Tippy because they would be too busy fighting their corrupted brethern.

PhoenixRivers: Excuse me, PhoenixRivers, but artificers would definetely be second in position. They're basically fullcarcane casters, so they're more powerfull than psions, and the Tippyverse runs in magical items, wich artificers are the best crafting.

[Project_Mayhem]

Well, the main issue here is that an infinite can be smaller than another infinite.

This evokes a very strong gut reaction of 'wrong' in me. Now I never took maths further than A-Level, but I'm pretty sure the point of infinity is that it's, well infinite. It can't be quantified

[Oslecamo]

This evokes a very strong gut reaction of 'wrong' in me. Now I never took maths further than A-Level, but I'm pretty sure the point of infinity is that it's, well infinite. It can't be quantified

It can't be quantified, but it can be compared, added, and substracted with other infinites. Just because you can't understand what exactly it is it doesn't mean you cannot manipulate it.

It's the only way of resolving many important and more advanced math problems. A simple one the paradox of the turtle and the runner.

The runner is ten times as fast as the turtle, and starts ten meters away from it.

In the time that the runner advances those ten meters, the turtle advances 1.

When the runner runs that 1, the turtle will have advanced 0.1

When the runner advances 0.1, the turtle will have advanced 0.01.

And so on. The turtle is always a small step away.

The runner will never catch the turtle WTF?

The only way of geting away from this paradox is to assume that altough in an infinite number of time divisions the turtle always has a small edge, when you substract that infinite number of divisions from the infinite number of divisions from the runner the man will end catching the slow moving reptile.



More advanced problems include the convergence(or divergence) of series, wich have great aplications in the fields of physics and probability.

But yes, it's somewhat more advanced stuff, and it will make your head hurt.

[Random832]

This evokes a very strong gut reaction of 'wrong' in me. Now I never took maths further than A-Level, but I'm pretty sure the point of infinity is that it's, well infinite. It can't be quantified

There are plenty of ways to quantify infinity.

For instance, some forms of infinity, you can assign each one [of the infinite things] an integer number. Others are too "large" for this.

[readsaboutd&d]

Well, there are levels of infinity. For example, pi (non-countable or something infinity) is infinitely bigger than 1,2,3,... infinitely. Probably would be more "how many fighters I can deploy at any and every given moment".

[chiasaur11]

And multiple infinities get us such fun numbers as Aleph One.

The number of Marathon.

[Nathan W]

If you want a casual lecture on the diffrent sies of infinity http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2292.html has a good one, or the wikipedia articales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfinite_number and my personal favrite, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel
Now before the thread gets totaly derailed, there should totaly be a cult of snuggles the death kitten as one of the rebel groups.

[Draco Dracul]

Now before the thread gets totaly derailed, there should totaly be a cult of snuggles the death kitten as one of the rebel groups.

I think another rebel group should be a cult that wish to bring about "the great edition change" so that wizards will be brought down to the level of mere men.:smalltongue:

[Oslecamo]

I think another rebel group should be a cult that wish to bring about "the great edition change" so that wizards will be brought down to the level of mere men.:smalltongue:

Ah, I remember something about they allying with the cult who seeked to give boobies to every living(and even unliving) creature in existance.:smallbiggrin:

I vote for the cult of "R-ral W-uld. They claim that Tippy is nothing more than a simple mortal in a bigger existance, wich despite being bigger doesn't have dragons or magic and where the whole universe works in a pretty boring way. They favorite pastime is killing catgirls.:smalltongue:

[Tackyhillbillu]

I was falling asleep last night, when I realized something.

In the RAW, dead gods go the Astral Plane, and... just float around. That is where Tippy has to live.

A massive fortress, built upon the bodies of the Gods he has slain, filled with the Mind Raped servants, who were once his greatest threats. A towering monument to his hubris and pride.

[Mercenary Pen]

I was falling asleep last night, when I realized something.

In the RAW, dead gods go the Astral Plane, and... just float around. That is where Tippy has to live.

A massive fortress, built upon the bodies of the Gods he has slain, filled with the Mind Raped servants, who were once his greatest threats. A towering monument to his hubris and pride.

I thought that was just his summer cottage... Question is, how will living spells fit in here? Has Tippy been doing epic research to create living Detect Thoughts/Dominate Person spell hybrids or something altogether more sinister?

[Kallisti]

So what's the chain of power for casters, in the end?

I was thinking it would be something like this, with the most powerful at the top.

Wizards = Above all.
Psions = Mental Surgeons, specialized taskforces. They've got things that Wizards don't, so wizards don't waste epic spell slots.
Bards = Newscasters, diplomancers, etc. They keep the proles in check, and while not powerful, their sheer ability to keep everybody happy is enough to warrant a high rank.
Sorcerers = Weaker wizards. Probably used as EXP batteries and specialized taskforces for things lower level wizards don't want to risk their lives on.
Clerics = The few that worship Big Brother (whether willingly or through psionic reeducation) strongly enough have a good position (probably above sorcs) and those clerics who worship other ideals are all dead or reeducated.
Truenamers: They're doctors, but at least they're consistent, unlike those clerics, who might not be worshpping Big Brother.
Partial/Specialized casters = Outer party members or reeducated into arena slaves. Some specialized casters may have their own uses in specialized fields (see Bards for the strongest of them), but Sorcerers can be trained to be anything you want and any Psion worth his 18 starting intelligence can change everything about himself with a simple chargeup in the arena and ten minutes of quiet reverance to Big Brother.
Druids = Big Brother is the only natural thing. Everything else is unnatural. Reverence to anything besides Big Brother will be met with reeducation.
Melee characters = Proles.
Commoners = A joke Big Brother plays to keep us happy.

Don't even put the druids on there. They've been exterminated in all of the areas that are directly and heavily controlled. They're hunted criminals. Truenamers are folk doctors--they help take care of the proles, because everyone else has more impostant things to do. Also, the partial and specialized casters are more powerful than the truenamers, and beneath them you have the Factotums, Savants, etc.
Then the ToB melee, the enforcers. They and the warmages are the strong arm of the Church of Tippy/TVPD (Tippyverse Police Department).
I'll get a big old social pyramid drawn up eventually.

[Kallisti]

I thought that was just his summer cottage... Question is, how will living spells fit in here? Has Tippy been doing epic research to create living Detect Thoughts/Dominate Person spell hybrids or something altogether more sinister?

:smallbiggrin::smallamused:I love being the DM so much right now, because when you guess at my plans and get close I can just give you the Evil DM smile...:smallamused:

[Kallisti]

ALSO: Progress we've made in the game thread:

Established that the illusion shows are broadcast by Epic Mirror Sending

The hunters of rebels are the SSAT (special spells and tactics) teams

EMTs = Emergency Medical Tippies

FBI = Factotum/Beguiler Investigations

CIA = Central Intervention Agency

DEA = Divination Enforcement Administration

On what the commoners do all day: But even with random busywork and specialized jobs and wars, there are too many. Using them as breeding stock just means there are even more to do nothing. There needs to be something...some material goods and services...maybe they mass-produce items that need to be enchanted? Spend all day on a scavenger hunt for spell components for the local Wizard's Guild to sell? Other than providing an XP tax to the landlord wizard who owns them, there must be something. Perhaps luxury or cash crops. After all, Create Food and Water traps produce identical meals every time...the pampered wizards would want to eat better than that...and conjured food disappears after being eaten, with most conjuration spells...so maybe they grow things like fruits, spices, and indigo and other plants used to make luxury goods. I can imagine a wzard who likes blue robes establishing an indigo farm that the commoners toil in, and sweatshops where they can mass-produce blue clothing for him to wear and sell.

Transport: Phantom Steed traps in cities, and outside:

One interesting option for a combustion-powered car would be having a perpetual-motion device involving ring gates, pyrotechnics, and a wheel being driven by the rising smoke. A 100 pound daily limit can transfer a lot of smoke...

[Mushroom Ninja]

On smoke-driven cars: Really cool idea, but wouldn't they get a tad expensive? Ring gates aren't exactly cheap. But then again, the Tippies aren't exactly poor either...

[Kallisti]

On smoke-driven cars: Really cool idea, but wouldn't they get a tad expensive? Ring gates aren't exactly cheap. But then again, the Tippies aren't exactly poor either...

Well, I think it's pretty cool, and besides, researching a custom spell to replicate the effect probably wouldn't be hard. Unless I hear a better idea, or a more accurate estimate, soon, the smoke-powered cars are in, and move at 100 ft. per round.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Well, I think it's pretty cool, and besides, researching a custom spell to replicate the effect probably wouldn't be hard.

True. With most of the multiverse under their control, the Tippies surely have the time/money to make it work.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, traps still require a one time investment of xp and gold, no? Sure, you get that from the worker drones, but no point getting carried away with the free goodies for them. If they can work harder to improve the ratio of xp/gold you spend on your own twisted desires vs their endless demands for silly things such as "food" and "housing", then why not?

Im seeing some truely insane steam-punk styled stuff as the tippies try to push constantly for something even more crazy, badass, and wasteful than the other wizards. I mean, you might as well go mad with power. Beats the hell out of going mad without it.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Im seeing some truely insane steam-punk styled stuff as the tippies try to push constantly for something even more crazy, badass, and wasteful than the other wizards.

That's a cool idea -- if they're not fighting each other, the wizards need some way to compete for fun.

[Milskidasith]

If we are going with 1984, that's exactly the opposite of how it should be. Efficiency, progress, becoming more luxurious? That's exactly how the party isn't going. The party is going to become more inefficient, using commoners for more and more menial tasks, getting more and more menial spell components, making more and more things automated and dull, keeping everybody happy by lack of anything better. They aren't going to make commoners more efficient; they're going to give them all a generic purpose, and what few pleasures the inner party gets above them are going to be so far beyond their comprehension they can't even understand. Food that isn't from traps, the ability to not listen to the daily mass messages, the ability to choose their own abilities, however small (whether they put the 11 or the 10 in cha and the other in str, what first level spells they have in their main spellbook, etc.). Basically, the Inner Party isn't becoming more wasteful, they're becoming less. You cannot worship Big Brother while furthering the self. You must sacrifice all in order to ensure total happiness.

All who read this have committed thoughtcrime. Please report to your nearest mental hospice for rehabilitation.

[Mushroom Ninja]

All who read this have committed thoughtcrime. Please report to your nearest mental hospice for Mindrape.

fixed it for you :smallbiggrin:

[Tackyhillbillu]

There is a problem. By farming, and such, you let the commoners know they can "DO" things. The point of the Parties treatment of the "Middle Class" (Player Characters who don't fall into the categories incorporated in Tippiedom) was to remove that notion.

The Proles (NPC Classes) might be allowed to do actual work. But not anybody else. The point is to make them see that the only possible existence is one in which the party provides everything.

[Kallisti]

There is a problem. By farming, and such, you let the commoners know they can "DO" things. The point of the Parties treatment of the "Middle Class" (Player Characters who don't fall into the categories incorporated in Tippiedom) was to remove that notion.

The Proles (NPC Classes) might be allowed to do actual work. But not anybody else. The point is to make them see that the only possible existence is one in which the party provides everything.

The proles are doing all the real work. The wizards are supplying the magic, the party nad middle classes are supplying the skills, the proles are providing everything else.

[Milskidasith]

EDIT: Responding to Tacky

The thing is, their "work" is the kind of menial work that the party did in 1984. They correct broadcasts of bards who botched their diplomacy rolls (when everybody has a +80, an 81 speech is a huge difference from a 100 speech). They invest skillpoints into Newspeak and all the other langauges, and assimilate them into newer versions of Newspeak. Etc, etc. The proles do the actual work; the middle class, lower level classes that could be inner party members, are either in menial jobs or doing specialized work for the SSATs.

Also, Mindrape isn't a very good spell, honestly. It's... crude. Psions have far more effective ways of doing things. Mindrape is exactly what O'Brien wouldn't want; they don't want you to lie, or be forced to say you love Big Brother. They want you to live Big Brother of your own "will." They'd use False Sensory Input, torture, illusions, etc. Mindraping somebody martyr's them; it proves that they, in fact, were forced to agree. Even if they agree in the end, under the duress of hundreds of will saves, they don't truly believe it. If they truly believe it, then they can receive a blissful bullet to the back of the head and be atomized without anybody caring.

[MammonAzrael]

I was looking over the thread, and what I've seen is pure awesome thus far. I'm sure I'll have more comments, but the one that jumped out at me so far is: Why all this discussion over the Abyss (and other infinite planes)?

From where I'm sitting, the Tippy wizards that went around slaughtering the gods and setting up this "paradise" would've come up with two options for all infinite planes. One would be the way you have it, keeping them as a fake "war" front, and sending whoever they want into unending battle. In fact this may be a form of reality TV for them, or like fantasy football, seeing and betting on who/what survives for how long.

The more logical way, I feel, would simply be to destroy the entire plane. Screw hunting down the inhabitants, just remove the plane from existence. While the plane is infinite, it is still confined in such a way as to be identifiable as a unique plane. So Tippy wizards should be able to find a way to simply remove it from existence. It could be sealed off like Ravenloft, encased in some type of crystal sphere reminiscent of Spelljammer, or simply destroyed as a whole. (This could also be a way to deal with Sigil or other problem planes. Simply erase them from existence as a whole. Conquering them isn't worth it.)

While the second seems like, overall, less effort and risk, the more I think about using the Abyss as some type of Running Man entertainment appeals to me more and more.

[Kallisti]

I was looking over the thread, and what I've seen is pure awesome thus far. I'm sure I'll have more comments, but the one that jumped out at me so far is: Why all this discussion over the Abyss (and other infinite planes)?

From where I'm sitting, the Tippy wizards that went around slaughtering the gods and setting up this "paradise" would've come up with two options for all infinite planes. One would be the way you have it, keeping them as a fake "war" front, and sending whoever they want into unending battle. In fact this may be a form of reality TV for them, or like fantasy football, seeing and betting on who/what survives for how long.

The more logical way, I feel, would simply be to destroy the entire plane. Screw hunting down the inhabitants, just remove the plane from existence. While the plane is infinite, it is still confined in such a way as to be identifiable as a unique plane. So Tippy wizards should be able to find a way to simply remove it from existence. It could be sealed off like Ravenloft, encased in some type of crystal sphere reminiscent of Spelljammer, or simply destroyed as a whole. (This could also be a way to deal with Sigil or other problem planes. Simply erase them from existence as a whole. Conquering them isn't worth it.)

While the second seems like, overall, less effort and risk, the more I think about using the Abyss as some type of Running Man entertainment appeals to me more and more.

If it's pure awesome you could apply for the game. Recruitment's still open for a few hours, and you'll have about a week after that to finish your sheet and story. Only five of the people applying for the rebel party have linked me to even the roughest sheet so far, so we need more applicants (or quicker-working applicants).

Also, I like the idea of the Tippy inner party betting on the Abyssal wars. I'll take it. Although no-one scrys the Far Realm. They're wizards, they're smart enough to know better than that...

[olentu]

I was looking over the thread, and what I've seen is pure awesome thus far. I'm sure I'll have more comments, but the one that jumped out at me so far is: Why all this discussion over the Abyss (and other infinite planes)?

From where I'm sitting, the Tippy wizards that went around slaughtering the gods and setting up this "paradise" would've come up with two options for all infinite planes. One would be the way you have it, keeping them as a fake "war" front, and sending whoever they want into unending battle. In fact this may be a form of reality TV for them, or like fantasy football, seeing and betting on who/what survives for how long.

The more logical way, I feel, would simply be to destroy the entire plane. Screw hunting down the inhabitants, just remove the plane from existence. While the plane is infinite, it is still confined in such a way as to be identifiable as a unique plane. So Tippy wizards should be able to find a way to simply remove it from existence. It could be sealed off like Ravenloft, encased in some type of crystal sphere reminiscent of Spelljammer, or simply destroyed as a whole. (This could also be a way to deal with Sigil or other problem planes. Simply erase them from existence as a whole. Conquering them isn't worth it.)

While the second seems like, overall, less effort and risk, the more I think about using the Abyss as some type of Running Man entertainment appeals to me more and more.

Yeah that would be the whole reason for sending people to die in the abyss and the far realm rather then the less interesting infinite planes or so I gather.

[Kallisti]

Yeah that would be the whole reason for sending people to die in the abyss and the far realm rather then the less interesting infinite planes.

Well, the Far Realm is an actual war. But the abyss? Yeah, right. An infinite number of inhabited, demon-infested layers? No way can you conquer that. I like the idea of it being a war that exists for two reasons: To give people something to think about and a reason to be grateful to the Tippies, and to help keep the Tippies entertained during their unnaturally-extended lives.

[MammonAzrael]

I was just going through options for the character I'm submitting for the game, and a thought occurred to me.

There shouldn't be any Dragonborn, since Bahamut is dead. So, that should probably be a banned/nonexistant template.

[Kallisti]

...I'm not really familiar with it, but if it would go kaput when the dragon gods died, you'd need a REALLY good backstory to sell me on it. What book is it from? RotD?

[Mushroom Ninja]

What book is it from? RotD?

Yes. I think the gist of the template is that you are a being who has devoted his/her entire life to serving Bahumat. In reward, he has turned you into a wacky dragon thing.

[Kallisti]

Yes. I think the gist of the template is that you are a being who has devoted his/her entire life to serving Bahumat. In reward, he has turned you into a wacky dragon thing.

Yeah, that'd be pretty hard to get. Not impossible, but really hard. You'd need to have a very, very, very good backstory.

[MammonAzrael]

Yeah, RotD. And Mushroom Ninja pretty much has it. You devote your life to Bahamut, and in return he helps you be reborn as a dragonized being. The fluff makes it pretty personal between the devotee and Bahamut, so...

[Kallisti]

OK, that one's out.

[Tyndmyr]

If we are going with 1984, that's exactly the opposite of how it should be. Efficiency, progress, becoming more luxurious? That's exactly how the party isn't going. The party is going to become more inefficient, using commoners for more and more menial tasks, getting more and more menial spell components, making more and more things automated and dull, keeping everybody happy by lack of anything better. They aren't going to make commoners more efficient; they're going to give them all a generic purpose, and what few pleasures the inner party gets above them are going to be so far beyond their comprehension they can't even understand. Food that isn't from traps, the ability to not listen to the daily mass messages, the ability to choose their own abilities, however small (whether they put the 11 or the 10 in cha and the other in str, what first level spells they have in their main spellbook, etc.). Basically, the Inner Party isn't becoming more wasteful, they're becoming less. You cannot worship Big Brother while furthering the self. You must sacrifice all in order to ensure total happiness.

All who read this have committed thoughtcrime. Please report to your nearest mental hospice for rehabilitation.

Oh, the "efficiency" and "progress" are entirely relative to which part of the pile you're on. From the top, it looks just grand, and every change brings you new benefits.

[Kallisti]

OK, so I've announced the Tippyverse '84 Grand Opening in my campaign thread, so I'll be starting my game soon. So, please, someone post a list of questions or topics that any campaign setting should have an answer to, and I'll see if we have answeres.

[Nathan W]

I dont know know about the whole unconquerable thing of the abyss. for some reason I'm imagining a sign that says "5 levels conquered today; keep up the good work!"

[Kallisti]

That's pretty much what the Mirrorcasts do. "Citizens! Today our brave, brave soldiers fought a pitched battle! Many lives were lost, but another level of the Abyss is ours! Huzzah! In other news..."

Although they also broadcast fictitious tales of victory in the Far Realms, even though they're losing. Badly.

[Tackyhillbillu]

To be fair, it isn't their fault. It's hard to Fight something that tranform you into a creature of endless torment, screaming without a mouth for all eternity on a normal basis.

I fear Cthulu > Tippy.

[Kallisti]

Ia Cthulhu! Cthulhu F'taghn! O R'lyeh? Ia, R'yeh!

By which I mean, yes, the Tippies bit off more than they could chew with the Far Realms...

[chiasaur11]

Great.

I just had an idea I'm pretty sure is moronic, but, hey. What the hey.

The far realms are bad enough. In fact, they're worse than bad enough. But the most disturbing bit?

A last message from a poor schmuck who got further in then anyone else. It was like something out of a nightmare. Stupid to describe, completely mundane, and if you saw the thing yourself, you'd never get over the fear entirely. A gigantic claw, sorta like a kobold's. A gigantic alarm clock. And a sense of inevitable doom whenever the thing awakens.

[Kallisti]

Great.

I just had an idea I'm pretty sure is moronic, but, hey. What the hey.

The far realms are bad enough. In fact, they're worse than bad enough. But the most disturbing bit?

A last message from a poor schmuck who got further in then anyone else. It was like something out of a nightmare. Stupid to describe, completely mundane, and if you saw the thing yourself, you'd never get over the fear entirely. A gigantic claw, sorta like a kobold's. A gigantic alarm clock. And a sense of inevitable doom whenever the thing awakens.

Actually, one of our applicants submitted...this, pretty much. As a druid who had his magic shoved into his brain by Shrub-Niggurath.

[chiasaur11]

Actually, one of our applicants submitted...this, pretty much. As a druid who had his magic shoved into his brain by Shrub-Niggurath.

Pun-Pun as Azathoth?

Well, either great minds or dim ones think alike. Either one's fine by me, I suppose.

[Kallisti]

Pun-Pun as Azathoth?

Well, either great minds or dim ones think alike. Either one's fine by me, I suppose.

It's mad minds think alike.

And no, I've already...disposed...of Pun-pun. Tippy captures would-be Pun-puns, locks them up in a fortress in the Astral Plane built on the corpses of gods he's murdered, and torments them for all eternity. Only Tippy gets omnipotence. No touchie the omni.

[chiasaur11]

It's mad minds think alike.

And no, I've already...disposed...of Pun-pun. Tippy captures would-be Pun-puns, locks them up in a fortress in the Astral Plane built on the corpses of gods he's murdered, and torments them for all eternity. Only Tippy gets omnipotence. No touchie the omni.

Well, I figure he wouldn't need to. Either someone's done it already and wiped out the Sarruhks and took a long, long nap (And...well, there's nothing left to do the helping, but if they were, we'd need their help when he wakes up, or Tippy wiped out Sarruhks after exploiting them, in which case the boot is stomping faces for all eternity.

Pun-Pun is the one force more broken then the Tippyverse, and even easier to pull off. If Sarruhks aren't extinct to prevent it preemptively...

Well, any rebellion is doomed, since good Kobolds calling on a long forgotten race of evil creator deities is rather low on the list of likely scenarios.

[Kallisti]

Well, I figure he wouldn't need to. Either someone's done it already and wiped out the Sarruhks and took a long, long nap (And...well, there's nothing left to do the helping, but if they were, we'd need their help when he wakes up, or Tippy wiped out Sarruhks after exploiting them, in which case the boot is stomping faces for all eternity.

Pun-Pun is the one force more broken then the Tippyverse, and even easier to pull off. If Sarruhks aren't extinct to prevent it preemptively...

Well, any rebellion is doomed, since good Kobolds calling on a long forgotten race of evil creator deities is rather low on the list of likely scenarios.

Sarrukhs are definitely included in the "eternal Astral torment summer home" plan. And who says the rebels have ot be good? In Tippyverse '84, a madman who opens the gates to the Far Realm wide and lets the Hounds of TIndalos come coursing through is a martyr. Evil, but a martyr...

[olentu]

That's pretty much what the Mirrorcasts do. "Citizens! Today our brave, brave soldiers fought a pitched battle! Many lives were lost, but another level of the Abyss is ours! Huzzah! In other news..."

Although they also broadcast fictitious tales of victory in the Far Realms, even though they're losing. Badly.

Loosing a war with the far realm. One would hope that ascension to overdeity comes along rather soon.

[PhoenixRivers]

On what the commoners do all day: But even with random busywork and specialized jobs and wars, there are too many. Using them as breeding stock just means there are even more to do nothing. There needs to be something...

1) Wars
2) Easy source of undead
3) Soul Bartering. And you thought XP batteries was bad.

Think of it either as "The Island" or "The Time Machine".

Those selected are "Winners" of a lottery. Winners get to inhabit the conquered sections of planes with the angels.

What they don't say is that it's the Abyss. And the angels are mindraped, and the ones negotiating the soul barters.

[readsaboutd&d]

Going a few pages back, but maybe it would be a good idea to have the xp generating fights as entertainement. Also, combine them with true resurrection traps and they never die unless you need souls. Would also be fun for the decadent wizards betting with some who can influence the fight under the table best. Also, punishment for ennemies, rebels and overly decadent wizards (after being drained of all xp, they pit fight for hundreds of years). For Cindy, could be cool if she was the dragon to and personnaly brought up by Tippie. Anyway, great thread. There hasent been a world that sounds so much fun since the city built around a tarrasque.:smalltongue::smallsmile::smallbiggrin:

[Arakune]

Why the more and more time passes, the tippyverse looks like Warhammer40K? :smallbiggrin:

[jseah]

I dredge up a very old idea I had before. (pre-3.5)

Only possible in Tippyverse of course. Use of this trick in non-Tippyverse leads to Tippyverse-dom.

#############################################

Auto-reset trap of Elder Glyph of Warding (LoM) spell storing form. Have thousands of these.
Auto-reset trap of every possible spell on every possible list. (include metamagic variants of all of them as well)

Store any spells you don't want to use now into the glyphs. Have nova capacity in the millions of spells per round.

#############################################

Use auto-reset (light sensitive) traps of mage hand and light. Make a Turing machine. (use Divination to assist if necessary)

Once you get an efficient way to interpret and organize information in this setup, have it run Divination and use the information generated by that to self-organize and expand.
Have it use Telekinesis to transfer, organize and use stacks of Glyphs.

*poof* you have a self-evolving AI that follows your commands. Which can expand faster than you can make the traps that power it. From here, the only use you have for those peasants is xp farms for expanding the thing.

[readsaboutd&d]

Auto-reset trap of Elder Glyph of Warding (LoM) spell storing form. Have thousands of these.
Auto-reset trap of every possible spell on every possible list. (include metamagic variants of all of them as well)

Store any spells you don't want to use now into the glyphs. Have nova capacity in the millions of spells per round.
You could make thousands of contigent (if you think of Tippy negatively in one of the realms conquered) mindrape spells.

[Arakune]

I stand correct

[woodenbandman]

Traps of Miracle to instantly craft anything ever?

[Johel]

Traps of WISH to instantly craft anything ever?

Fixed for you.
The gods are dead...
Tippy killed them...
All Hail Tippy. :smallfrown:

[Milskidasith]

Here's a question: What the hell do the Tippy's do with Sigil? The Lady is, from all indications, more than even Tippy could possibly chew off... I'm assuming that they've just made sure nobody can even think about that plane.

Wait, what's Sigil? :smallwink:

[Kallisti]

Thus far, eliminating all record of Sigil, closing all the portals, and hoping is the general tactic.

[Milskidasith]

Seems like a sound enough tactic.

Can the inner party members access Sigil, or is it purely locked off, with the capital city as the new center of magical items (for Inner Party members, obviously.)

[Kallisti]

Seems like a sound enough tactic.

Can the inner party members access Sigil, or is it purely locked off, with the capital city as the new center of magical items (for Inner Party members, obviously.)

They could go there, but they're afraid to. The Lady of Pain is trouble if she's upset...

[Mushroom Ninja]

They could go there, but they're afraid to. The Lady of Pain is trouble if she's upset...

What are her stats anyway?

[MammonAzrael]

I always got the feeling that the Lady was the original Tippy-esque epic Wizard. Who lost it somewhere along the way. And now she has retreated to her city-realm of Sigil, and does whatever a crazy epic wizard does.

You could obviously come up with a couple different reasons and stories for this.

The Lady could've been the first epic wizard, conquered the planes, and then retreated to Sigil after mellenia of going crazy on ultimate power.
She could've conquered everything, and remade/rearanged everything, creating the cosmology we know today, creating Sigil and the Outlands as the ultimate hub, where she can keep an (uncarung) eye on everything.
Given her penchant for Maze, she could've been a focused Conjourer.
Or she could be an aspect of Tippy from sometime in the furture, shen he had grown so bored and insane thathe transported himself back in time, set himself up as the master of Sigil, and changed himself enough so his past sefl wouldn't recognize him.


Or you could just stick with whole sanction of Sigil, and the Lady doesn't care since you aren't breaking any of her rules.

[Arakune]

What are her stats anyway?

Oposition = No.

[Milskidasith]

What are her stats anyway?

None.

She just wins.

[Tyndmyr]

Isn't there some lore somewhere(this is all strictly secondhand info for me) that implies Sigil is a sort of cage for the lady? Within it, she's got ridiculous power, but cannot leave.

If true, this definitely implies that she can be beaten. Not killed perhaps, but there are other means of defeat.

[quillbreaker]

None.

She just wins.

I think the Lady just has godlike power, home turf advantage, and the best PR campaign in the multiverse. Not bad. But I think there are conventional things that could take her out (a cabal of gods, for instance)... and Tippy isn't a conventional thing. What's the DC for an epic spell to permanently shrink a plane, and how many times does Tippy have to cast it before the Lady squishes?

[Milskidasith]

Isn't there some lore somewhere(this is all strictly secondhand info for me) that implies Sigil is a sort of cage for the lady? Within it, she's got ridiculous power, but cannot leave.

If true, this definitely implies that she can be beaten. Not killed perhaps, but there are other means of defeat.

Yes. Beating her is as simple as not going into Sigil, not allowing your enemies to go to Sigil, and basically making sure Sigil is inaccessible for everybody.

[Drakyn]

Tippy wins precisely by abusing the rules. The lady of pain has no rules. Ergo, Tippy avoids her, because his most powerful weapon (rule abuse) has no grounds against her.

[Ernir]

Mass transportation to more quickly get to the nearest teleportation trap: Mass grapples.

It is probably the primary form of transportation in the rural/non-trapped areas (if there are any).
*Envisions a group of farmers speed-grappling their way home from the field*

[Mushroom Ninja]

I've got the ideal use for all those excess proles: Commoner railguns! If we're trying to apply the laws of physics to the Tippyverse, it's an ultimate weapon. If not, it's a really speedy transport from point A to point B!

[Arutema]

We are allied with Sigil and at war with The Abyss. We have always been at war with The Abyss.

We are allied with The Abyss and at war with Sigil. We have always been at war with Sigil.

[MammonAzrael]

Hmm, what about Language? Have the Tippies created a standard language (aka common)? Are other languages allowed? Or would they be thought crimes, recalling days before the unification under Big Brother? I'm leaning towards the later.

And in a practical sense, what does this mean for bonus languages? Are they available, reduced, or unavailable?

[Kallisti]

Hmm, what about Language? Have the Tippies created a standard language (aka common)? Are other languages allowed? Or would they be thought crimes, recalling days before the unification under Big Brother? I'm leaning towards the later.

And in a practical sense, what does this mean for bonus languages? Are they available, reduced, or unavailable?

The common language, once Victory, has been renamed Oldspeak. A new standardized language, Newspeak, is even now being composed. Other languages are fictitious. There never was any language but Oldspeak until Newspeak. Believing otherwise would be a thought-crime, and the criminal would need to be corrected. So, for bonus languages: None. You get Oldspeak automatically, and you get a degree of familiarity with Newspeak based on your backstory. Although Newspeak is pretty close to Oldspeak. For example, a translation:
Oldspeak: "Good, better, best..."
Newspeak: "Good, plusgood, doubleplusgood..."

For more on Newspeak, I refer you to a wonderful article on the subject. it's entitled 1984, and it was written by one George Orwell. Although Googling Newspeak might turn up results...

[technophile]

Although Googling Newspeak might turn up results...
Except that even knowing about Google is a thought crime...



Seriously, nobody thinks Archivists fit into this milieu at all?

[Tyndmyr]

The common language, once Victory, has been renamed Oldspeak. A new standardized language, Newspeak, is even now being composed. Other languages are fictitious. There never was any language but Oldspeak until Newspeak. Believing otherwise would be a thought-crime, and the criminal would need to be corrected. So, for bonus languages: None. You get Oldspeak automatically, and you get a degree of familiarity with Newspeak based on your backstory. Although Newspeak is pretty close to Oldspeak. For example, a translation:
Oldspeak: "Good, better, best..."
Newspeak: "Good, plusgood, doubleplusgood..."

For more on Newspeak, I refer you to a wonderful article on the subject. it's entitled 1984, and it was written by one George Orwell. Although Googling Newspeak might turn up results...

Huh, how does that work with all the various racial languages, given that I believe some animals and such are not able to speak common?

Plus, abyssal has to still be spoken, no?

[Kris Strife]

Except that even knowing about Google is a thought crime...

Really? What better way to keep people distracted and focusing on pointless stuff than through the internet?

[The Glyphstone]

Google gives you knowledge that could be dangerous. The masses are kept docile and compliant via other, less real-world applicable information dispensers. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)

[Drakyn]

Google gives you knowledge that could be dangerous. The masses are kept docile and compliant via other, less real-world applicable information dispensers. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)

Does Tippy really want his subjects to become dangerously aware (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DangerouslyGenreSavvy)of the fact that they're living in magical 1984?

[Kallisti]

There is a Tippyverse Wiki accessable via viewscreens. Each page shows a different Hypnotic Pattern. This is a joke, by the way...

And as for the racial languages? What racial languages? The only languages are Oldspeak and Newspeak. To believe otherwise is thought-crime. And Abyssal translations are provided via Comprehend Languages, which decrypts the code the demons use. After all, it's just a code, not a language. To believe otherwise is thought-crime. Please report to your nearest Mental Hospice for immediate correction, citizen.

EDIT: I'm feeling pretty bad right now (and running a fever), so don't expect me back until tomorrow:smallyuk:...

[Nathan W]

Traps of wish set to create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value. Specifically 25,000gp. RAW does not have inflation

[Kallisti]

Except that traps of wish get Tippy's attention...

[Emperor Tippy]

Hmm, can I be Emperor Tippy :smallwink:

[Kallisti]

Hmm, can I be Emperor Tippy :smallwink:

That...would actually be a very nice way to end the campaign--you guys get to fight Emperor Tippy, as played by...Emperor Tippy!

But! If Tippy has actual stats, of any kind, then magic can defeat him with enough rules abuse. So, for him to present any challenge, he'd have to be statless. So how could I give players a fair fight against a statless enemy?

...screw fair fights. If they're dumb enough to confront Tippy face-to-face, let them get killed as they'd so richly deserve for such a stupid move.

So, yes. If you want to, and my players are dumb enough to confront the god who killed all the other gods with ease, you can drop in and and describe their horrible deaths.

[Emperor Tippy]

Yah! I'm in a game and the DM is letting me play an overdiety :smallbiggrin:

And as the party of rebels meets up on prime material plane ADF1-557-23 Tippy leans back in his recliner and says "Jeeves, bring me the popcorn, oh and good job with those rebels. Let's see how much chaos this version of the breeding project will bring to the Inner Party." Jeeves snaps his fingers and hand over the popcorn before saying "Yes sir, I have high hopes for this breed. Is Cindy still running the Inner Circle this millennium?" As he munches on the popcorn Tippy says "Nope, she wanted to do something with Time Dragons so she bribed me with some cookies to make Akresh take over this time. That's why the verse has gone so screwy for the past 950 or so years, he was throwing a hissy fit and seeing how messed up he could make it." "Ah, so who's his replacement going to be?" "No idea, we haven't had that poker game yet. Oh their starting, it's time to quiet down"

[Arakune]

Can you post the stats of said god anyway?

It's not like I want to use it for later or anything...

[Milskidasith]

It is an honor to serve, Emperor Tippy. (SSAT division #167P Psion, reporting for duty.)

[Emperor Tippy]

Can you post the stats of said god anyway?

It's not like I want to use it for later or anything...

Stats: Whatever he wants them to be at that instant.

[Arakune]

Stats: Whatever he wants them to be at that instant.

Can it be pre-ascension then >.< ?

[Kallisti]

Can it be pre-ascension then >.< ?

Pre-ascension stats: Whatever he wants them to be. Bear in mind, this is the Tippiest of the Tippyverse wizards.

[Frog Dragon]

Idea (If it's hasn't been posted already) for more Tippyversian propaganda.
Magic: The might gracious God-Emperor Tippy has bestowed upon us in his infinite kindness.

[Kallisti]

Idea (If it's hasn't been posted already) for more Tippyversian propaganda.
Magic: The might gracious God-Emperor Tippy has bestowed upon us in his infinite kindness.

That's pretty much the foundation for the First Church of the Emperor. Tippy, in his mortal incarnation, invented magic and banished the demons that preyed upon the lands to the Far Realms. Of course he was the first person to discover magic. Of course the demons were banished to the Far Realms. To believe anything else would be thought-crime.