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View Full Version : [3.5 Race] Slight/Powerful Build (Needs a Name)



DragoonWraith
2009-09-20, 08:35 PM
Needs-a-Name are odd looking creatures, standing roughly five feet tall on average, but with a much smaller torso and head than a human, while having longer, heavily muscled limbs that have no fewer than two more joints than the corresponding human limb, ending in hands and feet much larger than a human's.

Needs-a-Name
Abilities: +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma - needs-a-name are wild, feral creatures, with little care for learning or social grace, but they are quite strong.
Type: Monstrous Humanoid (Goblinoid). As a monstrous humanoid, needs-a-names are proficient with all simple weapons, but do not gain proficiency with any armor or shield.
Medium: As a medium creature, needs-a-names do not have any special bonuses or penalties due to their size (but see below).
Base Land Speed: Thirty feet.
Powerful Build: The physical stature of a needs-a-name lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a needs-a-name is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the needs-a-name is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A needs-a-name is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A needs-a-name can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Slight Build: The physical stature of needs-a-names lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a needs-a-name is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the needs-a-name is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A needs-a-name is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. Unlike other Slight Build creatures, a needs-a-name cannot use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without the normal penalty. Further, the space and reach of a needs-a-name remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
Automatic Language: Common
Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc
Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass needs-a-name's barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
Level Adjustment: +0

So, just a weird thought I had. I have no idea how powerful combining Slight and Powerful Build really is, but I'm curious what people think.

Kuma Kode
2009-09-20, 09:32 PM
I'm having trouble figuring out how it's even really possible to combine those two and not have them balance out.

If it works really in ALL ways (including reach), it's probably overpowered, since it's pretty much being large, which is almost always worth a +1 ECL due to the range increase. Allowing it to negate the penalties associated with being large, and in fact turning them into bonuses (penalty to AC and hide checks become plusses due to small) is probably too much for a +0 race.

Names
Gruerians or Grueri?

DragoonWraith
2009-09-20, 09:42 PM
Where's the name from?

But yes, it's a combination of the best aspects of being Large and the best aspects of being Small. However, Powerful Build does not affect Space/Reach, so that much is not a worry. It might still be too much for an LA +0 race; I honestly don't know. I just think it's an interesting idea to have both.

I updated it to include the actual text of Slight/Powerful Build, rather than my paraphrasing from memory.

Mongoose87
2009-09-20, 09:45 PM
They must be the oddest looking fellows.

DragoonWraith
2009-09-20, 09:47 PM
Certainly must. But it's not unthinkable, really - their arms and hands are large enough for big weapons and for grappling and bull-rushing, but their bodies are so small and their limbs are so flexible that they can fit in smaller spaces and hide more easily.

I should remove the ability to use Small weapons, though, that doesn't makes sense.

Kuma Kode
2009-09-20, 09:53 PM
Graueri, which is what I meant to type but failed to do so, is the subspecies name of the Eastern Lowland Gorilla, which these creatures seem to be kinda like.

Though grappling and heavy weapon usage, as well as many other things based on size, aren't strictly arm-based. If someone's trying to push a Graueri back, he's not just gonna push back with his arms. Your torso and legs also go into that, and having a dinky torso means the creature has very poor core strength in comparison.

And I think the broad shoulders and hips required to support such limbs would negate the ability to fit through a restrictive space as a creature of one size smaller.

DragoonWraith
2009-09-20, 09:56 PM
You're probably right, if the muscles are bulky. But they don't have to be - they can be lithe and lean, but strong. I'm thinking they are more dense than average, fitting more strength in a slenderer frame and also giving them the mass necessary to be better at bull-rushing and such.

FMArthur
2009-09-21, 01:08 AM
I was kind of thinking of this as being very slightly unsolid in shape, like a doppelganger in its native form. Seems workable to me in any case.

Slight Build here is just +4 to Hide from what I can tell, since you've removed the weapon ability, so I don't know why you'd bother with the ability at all. Slight Build's weapon ability's primary application is wielding a smaller reach weapon in one hand, and due to the way the abilities are worded, can't be combined with Powerful Build for cheesy combos or anything. You've also left a phrase referring to kobolds in there.

Powerful Build has a lot more applications, being the more powerful of the two, with its benefits to most of the normal combat maneuvers that matter. I would consider it balanced if you removed the strength bonus altogether and replaced one of the mental ability penalties with one to Dex or Con. Come on, it can't be the perfect melee warrior. Most of the difficulty in getting homebrew allowed at all happens when something rides the line of overpowered and not.

DragoonWraith
2009-09-21, 02:17 AM
I was kind of thinking of this as being very slightly unsolid in shape, like a doppelganger in its native form. Seems workable to me in any case.
A viable interpretation of the same, perhaps more so. Would have to change the type.

But I don't really like shapechangers that much.


Slight Build here is just +4 to Hide from what I can tell, since you've removed the weapon ability, so I don't know why you'd bother with the ability at all. Slight Build's weapon ability's primary application is wielding a smaller reach weapon in one hand, and due to the way the abilities are worded, can't be combined with Powerful Build for cheesy combos or anything. You've also left a phrase referring to kobolds in there.
+4 to Hide, +2 AC from Size (counts for Touch and Flat-footed, which is nice), lesser penalties from cramped spaces. I think that's about it.

If he's a shape-changer, I could go with the smaller weapons... hrm.

Or I could go with smaller armor, saving money/weight.

Thanks for noticing the Kobold line, I'll fix that.


Powerful Build has a lot more applications, being the more powerful of the two, with its benefits to most of the normal combat maneuvers that matter. I would consider it balanced if you removed the strength bonus altogether and replaced one of the mental ability penalties with one to Dex or Con. Come on, it can't be the perfect melee warrior. Most of the difficulty in getting homebrew allowed at all happens when something rides the line of overpowered and not.
Well, Goliaths (the original Powerful Build creatures) have +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con - definitely very strong abilities, and the Dex penalty is easily obviated, IMO (possibly being less a big deal even than Int). They're also LA+1, though. Hard to say.

boomwolf
2009-09-21, 09:44 AM
Amusing, I was thinking just about this moments before I noticed the thread.

I think its an interesting idea, small armor and large weapon FTW!

Although looting proper equipment WILL be a pain.

Well, seems quite balanced to me, perhaps remove the STR bonus.

Cieyrin
2009-09-21, 12:03 PM
I would think these bandy armed goons would be scoring some Dex penalties, as they can't be that quick with that much articulation to worry about. Sure they can wield these crazy weapons of unusual size but they have nothing simple going on in doing that.

DragoonWraith
2009-09-21, 12:15 PM
Yeah, a Dex penalty seems reasonable.

Should the net ability score be negative, though? Probably.

Kuma Kode
2009-09-21, 03:08 PM
Even with an additional Dex penalty, they'd still make fantastic fighters. I'd play one.