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Paulus
2009-09-21, 12:51 AM
This idea came up in a thread a while ago and the thought struck me funny, so I did a bit more research and it turns out there are a LOT of D&D classes that seek to emulate the top billing name of the game. So, I did a bit more searching and found to my surprise that there weren't any threads depicting the overall best Dragon Emulating classes for D&D (3.5). So I thought I'd make one.

Thus fellow forum goers, pooling from your impressive knowledge and experience, I'd like to ask which class do you think does the best job of emulating Dragons for characters? Of all the posts I'll do a running tally -so if you'd please list your classes in bold- and keep a regular update here on the main page! And just to be fair I'll break it into three categories.

The Best Dragon Emulating Character Class:Your typical straight laced 1-20 character level classes, vanilla. Gimme your best in your thoughts, period. And possibly why. Feel free to include feats, but don't bother with items unless you feel it's absolutely necessary. And you must give a reason why you think so. This should be best of the best! With perhaps a taste of 'anyone can play' feel to it. But I won't hold it against you if not. ;3


Dragonfire Adept
Totemist
Dragon Shaman


The Best Dragon Emulating Prestige Class: Of all of them, alone, there can be only one! Judged perhaps with a taste of 'can be added to any class' but that may hamper it for some do I'll leave it open, for the best period. Again feel free to mention feats, and the same precaution for items.


Diamond Dragon (For Psionics) and Dragon Disciple(Tome Series?)!


The Best Dragon Emulating MultiClass:This is the category for all these crazy builds with multi-classes and multi-prestige classes. Sky is the limit, any number of prestige classes and character classes, specifically for all you sorcerer fans out there! Feats would be lovely, items, the same as always. Make sure you tell us why they are vital!

Dragonshaman x/sorcerer 1
Totemist 2/Sorcerer 6/Soulcaster 7/Abjurant Champion 5
Sorcerer 5, Dragon Disciple (Pathfinder variant) 10, Sorcerer 5.
Dragonfire Adept/DragonDisciple (hint of illegality due to casting)
Dragon Devotee into Dragon Disciple (hint of illegality due to type)
(Gestalt) Dragonfire Adept / Sorcerer or Dragonfire Adept / Dragon Shaman
(gestalt) Dragonfire Adept 20//Fighter 2/Sorcerer 5/Kobold Paragon 3/Dragon Disciple (silver) 10- (note' relies on a race)


This should bolster some beautiful discussion and I'd be tickled if there happened to be a sister thread detailing the Best Dungeon class... but for now, let us speak of DRAGONS!

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-21, 12:58 AM
The Best Dragon Emulating Character Class:Your typical straight laced 1-20 character level classes, vanilla. Gimme your best in your thoughts, period. And possibly why. Feel free to include feats, but don't bother with items unless you feel it's absolutely necessary. And you must give a reason why you think so. This should be best of the best! With perhaps a taste of 'anyone can play' feel to it. But I won't hold it against you if not. ;3


Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept.

I think that explains it all, really.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-21, 01:00 AM
Though not in the spirit of what i think your doing. I'd have to say hands down would be a Kobold Dragonshaman x/sorcerer 1 using the webehancement and being dragonwrought with the sorcerer rituals/loredrake, and the dragon wings/tail feats.. you would have pritty much all the natural attacks the little bit of spell casting. Breathe weapon, flying, auras in place of your spell likes. and you could take that feat from dragonomicon that gives you frightfull presence..

Pritty much like a mini dragon.

Draz74
2009-09-21, 01:03 AM
The Best Dragon Emulating Character Class:Your typical straight laced 1-20 character level classes, vanilla. Gimme your best in your thoughts, period. And possibly why. Feel free to include feats, but don't bother with items unless you feel it's absolutely necessary. And you must give a reason why you think so. This should be best of the best! With perhaps a taste of 'anyone can play' feel to it. But I won't hold it against you if not.
Dragonfire Adept. It gives you the Dragonblood subtype, DR/magic, scales, flight, dragon-flavored spell-like abilities, Frightful Presence, and a crapton of HP. Oh, and breath weapons. BREATH WEAPONS. A LOT of breath weapons, and the ability to use them constantly. Which, let's be honest, is the most iconic Dragon ability of them all.


The Best Dragon Emulating MultiClass:This is the category for all these crazy builds with multi-classes and multi-prestige classes. Sky is the limit, any number of prestige classes and character classes, specifically for all you sorcerer fans out there! Feats would be lovely, items, the same as always. Make sure you tell us why they are vital!

Heh, I'm not sure it's legal (especially since you didn't specify whether Gestalt was even allowed), but I once entered this in a Gestalt Builds contest:

Dragonborn Kobold Dragonfire Adept 20//Fighter 2/Sorcerer 5/Kobold Paragon 3/Dragon Disciple (silver) 10

Myou
2009-09-21, 01:48 AM
Dragons have LA. You could just play one. :smalltongue:

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-21, 07:08 AM
Dragons have LA. You could just play one. :smalltongue:

I think thats cheating.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-21, 07:10 AM
Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept.

I think you can be a half-dragon dragonborn, too...

Eldariel
2009-09-21, 07:24 AM
I think you can be a half-dragon dragonborn, too...

I think standard Dragonborn works better. Just be a race with natural wings and fly-speed and you've got that covered too. Or pick up the Dragon Wings-line, but that's kinda lame.

Then you have Breath Weapon, Wings, Draconic appearance, Invocations to replicate the rest of Draconicism and...yeah, you'll be quite the Dragon. Just cast Giant Size on yourself and pretend to be a Great Wyrm. Now you just need to do something about your Fly-speed, which sucks by default.

Myou
2009-09-21, 08:39 AM
I think thats cheating.

Well, I'd rather play the real thing than some crappy emulation that's nothing like it. xP

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-21, 08:40 AM
Well, I'd rather play the real thing than some crappy emulation that's nothing like it. xP

I guess i can kinda agree...

I think this is more of a thought exercise or more for a game where you can't play an actual dragon using the rules from dragonomicon.

Though again a really dragon is cool... I think its more a thought exercise or just to see if we can emulate it enough.

Myou
2009-09-21, 08:49 AM
I guess i can kinda agree...

I think this is more of a thought exercise or more for a game where you can't play an actual dragon using the rules from dragonomicon.

Though again a really dragon is cool... I think its more a thought exercise or just to see if we can emulate it enough.

Fair enough. :3

Hmmm, I wonder, are there draconic grafts you can get? I think I remember hearing about some.

bosssmiley
2009-09-21, 09:03 AM
Tome Series Dragon Disciple transformational class. You turn into a proper dragon, not some half-ass half-dragon with weaksauce casting and pretensions to scaleydom, as a capstone ability.

Remember, only the Tome Series loves you enough to give you this. :smallwink:

http://blog.project76.tv/Nextwave%2002%20page%2004.jpg

AB
2009-09-21, 10:24 AM
Gestalt Dragonfire Adept / Sorcerer or Dragonfire Adept / Dragon Shaman.

Race: Kobold with dragoncheese or Dragonborn.

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-21, 10:30 AM
Base class: Dragonfire Adept or Totemist (with the right Chakra binds you can be even better than the DFA).

PrC: Diamond Dragon, despite it sucking. Or Dragon Devotee into Dragon Disciple.

Multiclassing combo: Totemist 2/Sorcerer 6/Soulcaster 7/Abjurant Champion 5.

Gnaeus
2009-09-21, 10:45 AM
Kobold, Sorcerer 5, Dragon Disciple (Pathfinder variant) 10, Sorcerer 5. Or Sorcerer 20.

If you think the key ability of dragons is a breath weapon, you don't understand 3.5. A dragon is nothing but a winged caster with better HD.

Myou
2009-09-21, 12:07 PM
Tome Series Dragon Disciple transformational class. You turn into a proper dragon, not some half-ass half-dragon with weaksauce casting and pretensions to scaleydom, as a capstone ability.

Remember, only the Tome Series loves you enough to give you this. :smallwink:

http://blog.project76.tv/Nextwave%2002%20page%2004.jpg

Why....

Why are you posting macro diaper furry porn? :smalleek:

Starbuck_II
2009-09-21, 12:28 PM
Why....

Why are you posting macro diaper furry porn? :smalleek:

Dude, furries have hair. That is totally a scaly.

Keld Denar
2009-09-21, 12:29 PM
Half-Dragon Draconic Dragonborn Dragonwraught Kobold Dragonfire Adept/DragonDisciple.

Yo dawg, we heard you liked dragons, so we put some dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon so you can breath fire while frightening people while flying while deflecting stuff with your DR while breathing more fire while claw/claw/biting while casting spells. Dawg...

Eldariel
2009-09-21, 12:30 PM
Half-Dragon Draconic Dragonborn Dragonwraught Kobold Dragonfire Adept/DragonDisciple.

Yo dawg, we heard you liked dragons, so we put some dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon in your dragon so you can breath fire while frightening people while flying while deflecting stuff with your DR while breathing more fire while claw/claw/biting while casting spells. Dawg...

Can't enter Dragon Disciple as Half-Dragon :smalltongue:

Paulus
2009-09-21, 12:37 PM
Great ideas everyone! And on the topic of it, I intentionally left out race for the very reasons you are all citing. We could debate which race, template, or type is most dragon like which would become an argument of Dragon Born, Half Dragon, Kolbold, Lizard Folk, Draconic creatures etc etc etc. But honestly as far as race goes, why bother to get a dragon emulating race when the Dragon race itself is far superior? So this was mainly an exercise in emulating Dragons for all races. In that, it was based solely on class, Prestige Class, or Multiclass. Things which any race can take -with the right rereqs of course.

I didn't not stop to think that the best Dragon Emulating Classes would require a certain race... which could very well be the case. But in that case, they wouldn't really be the best, since they lack versatility. After all you could compare actual races to a single spell, Polymorph, which can turn you into an actual -HD restrained- Dragon.

So, to keep away from a racist argument, heh heh, I chose to stick to asking about classes, prestige class, and multi classes. Which anyone can take, and therefore allows anyone to emulate Dragons. Be they Kolbolds or humans or pixies. If that character wanted to be a dragon the Best Emulation for it would be...?

Thus far DragonFire Adept seems to have the most confidence as a stand alone. Diamond Dragon as the PRC stand alone. and we've got a multitude of multiclass madness! and yes gesalt is allowed. We can always split it up to single character multi classing runs after all.

So I'll just once again please ask everyone to bold your votes and please specify a category (1,2,3 is fine), I admit it a bit hard for me to separate sometimes. But none the less I greatly appreciate your contributions! ...well.. all except fing fang foom in his purple underroos. I just don't know how to feel about that and neither will my psychiatrist.

sofawall
2009-09-21, 12:41 PM
Can't enter Dragon Disciple as Half-Dragon :smalltongue:

Can't be a Dragon Disciple as a Dragon Disciple anyway.

Keld Denar
2009-09-21, 12:43 PM
Schrödinger's Dragon Disciple? He's both a Dragon Disciple and not a Dragon Disciple, as long as you don't look at him?

Starbuck_II
2009-09-21, 12:45 PM
Can't enter Dragon Disciple as Half-Dragon :smalltongue:

Besides 1/2 Dragons are dragons and Draconics can't be applied to Dragons.
Dragonborn Draconics are technically legal though.

So Draconic Dragonborn Dragonwrout Kobold Dragonfire Adept is best best.

Paulus
2009-09-21, 12:46 PM
Schrödinger's Dragon Disciple? He's both a Dragon Disciple and not a Dragon Disciple, as long as you don't look at him?

I'm sure Invisibility and greater Invisibility would be a must then.

Doc Roc
2009-09-21, 02:18 PM
Psion. True Mindswitch.

Keld Denar
2009-09-21, 02:26 PM
If you took Invisible Spell, you could be Invisibly Invisible...

Yo dawg...we heard you like Invisibly Invisible Dragon Dragon Dragons...

ok, I need to stop now...

Paulus
2009-09-21, 02:29 PM
Psion. True Mindswitch.

Think is more up there with Sorcerer/Wizard and Shapechange... which kinda makes it moot to consider along with races. Still, something to keep in mind.

Psion. Mind! Keep in mind! mindswitch! That's a joke son!
Nice kid but he doesn't listen to a word you say.

Myou
2009-09-21, 02:47 PM
Dude, furries have hair. That is totally a scaly.

Why do you know these things?!

Paulus
2009-09-21, 04:49 PM
Re-railing as it were, corrected the main post, the running tallies seem to really point to Dragonfire Adept, who new invocations were so popular?
With multiclass looking to be Dragonfire Adept and Dragon Disciple! Seeing as how it can apply to any race, yet there is some question of REREQS since Disciple says you have to cast arcane spells, not invocations. Hmmm. where will the Multiclass maddess end!?

For all you watchers who are thinking of following one of these paths remember that of course a great deal of consideration should be put into Races and templates and types when figuring out your best method of Dragon Emulation, so remember to keep them in mind when choosing for yourself off of this little list. but for our efforts of class and PRC and Multimadness! It seems like we only have two contenders for Best PRC, and they are completely different per scale. (buh dum pssh) So they are basically tied for Psionics and Arcaneists.

Whereas the Multiclass madness brings in a lot of questions and dependence, but what is solid for the goose is solid for the gander, or so I says, therefore judged equality and relatively to the others, and based a great deal on needed no argument for allowances, it seems there is also a tie!

What a crazy way to run a race, and hopefully, it was as entertaining as it was informative! Thanks everyone!

Riffington
2009-09-21, 05:17 PM
I think thats cheating.

That's not cheating. This is cheating.
Druid 20.

Kris Strife
2009-09-21, 08:20 PM
Why do you know these things?!

You know, I find it odd that knowing the difference between furry and scaley draws more flak than knowing about macro and diaper fetishes combined.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-21, 09:31 PM
Why do you know these things?!

Too much internet. I learned about Scalys in gaming forums. How that entered the conversation is the part I never got.

KellKheraptis
2009-09-21, 10:03 PM
Cheating is getting a DM to approve a Favored Soul variant like the one for sorcerers, giving them a 2 size HD increase and a BAB bump. That's D12's, Good BAB, three good saves, on a full caster, with arcane capability if you go FSoB for more dragon goodness. Tack on Dragonborn, and you're good to go! Oh, and if you really wanna be a wretch, see if he'll ok the Dragon bloodline from PF too >.> *Mix in the sovereign archtype that allows druid spells and you'll have all three major lists (since all of them lose racial divine casting, which you have none of, but abjectly gain whatever is in their description, in this case druid casting for...Child of Eberron I think).

*-This might not work, as I'm AFB, but even if you only take the one that grants the same spellcasting as you have, that's all Sor/Wiz and all Cleric available for spells known, and Turning. Yay for Dragon DMM Persistent Wraithstrike (get creative on how to do it)!

Paulus
2009-09-21, 11:22 PM
Cheating is getting a DM to approve a Favored Soul variant like the one for sorcerers, giving them a 2 size HD increase and a BAB bump. That's D12's, Good BAB, three good saves, on a full caster, with arcane capability if you go FSoB for more dragon goodness. Tack on Dragonborn, and you're good to go! Oh, and if you really wanna be a wretch, see if he'll ok the Dragon bloodline from PF too >.> *Mix in the sovereign archtype that allows druid spells and you'll have all three major lists (since all of them lose racial divine casting, which you have none of, but abjectly gain whatever is in their description, in this case druid casting for...Child of Eberron I think).

*-This might not work, as I'm AFB, but even if you only take the one that grants the same spellcasting as you have, that's all Sor/Wiz and all Cleric available for spells known, and Turning. Yay for Dragon DMM Persistent Wraithstrike (get creative on how to do it)!

Wha? A favored Souls get arcane capability? how? I've never heard of this and I'm PLAYING a favored soul of bahamut!

alchemyprime
2009-09-21, 11:28 PM
Also... where is this Tome Dragon Disciple? I've been looking in the new Tome and can't find it...

Paulus
2009-09-22, 12:15 AM
Also... where is this Tome Dragon Disciple? I've been looking in the new Tome and can't find it...

As linked from Bosssmiley sig'

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48453

you'll find it is more of a homebrew, but I allowed it period because the Dragon Disciple PRC came up in a lot of multiclass builds giving it votes by association.

alchemyprime
2009-09-22, 01:01 AM
See, I've scoured that link and I must be failing a Spot check, because I still can't find it for the life of me.

Myou
2009-09-22, 01:32 AM
You know, I find it odd that knowing the difference between furry and scaley draws more flak than knowing about macro and diaper fetishes combined.

I'm joking around here. :smalltongue:

Furries don't actually bother me to begin with.

taltamir
2009-09-22, 01:40 AM
Dragons have LA. You could just play one. :smalltongue:

or you could do away with the LA and play them as a monster progression class from savage species (aka, each level, you gain one monster HD, get some abilities, and eventually increase in size... until you are finally a full dragon / whatever)

Some dragons, like gold, can take human shape at will.

alchemyprime
2009-09-22, 10:57 AM
Dragon magazine did publish progressions as monster classes for the 10 main dragons... but I assume that'd be cheating...

KellKheraptis
2009-09-22, 11:09 AM
Wha? A favored Souls get arcane capability? how? I've never heard of this and I'm PLAYING a favored soul of bahamut!

As I recall they add several arcane spells to their spells known, right above describing how their DR changes and such.

Paulus
2009-09-22, 01:19 PM
See, I've scoured that link and I must be failing a Spot check, because I still can't find it for the life of me.

Then the wool has most assuredly been pulled over my eyes and I too have failed my spot check, corrections will be made immediately.



As I recall they add several arcane spells to their spells known, right above describing how their DR changes and such.

What, in Complete Divine? I'm not seeing it.

hamishspence
2009-09-22, 01:42 PM
Dragon magazine did publish progressions as monster classes for the 10 main dragons... but I assume that'd be cheating...

It also published an epic prestige class: Athasian Dragon in issue 339- basically, you gain the natural attacks, breath weapon, spell resistance, size, etc of a dragon. Designed for multiclass psionic/arcane characters.

Telonius
2009-09-22, 01:49 PM
For people who just want to pretend to be a Dragon: one level of Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3)with the Dragon mask.


Dragon: This multihued mask of precious metals and scintillating gemstones forms the terrible visage of a snarling wyrm. A sunburst of metallic and bejeweled scales flares out around the reptilian face.

Three times per day you can breathe a cone of fire as a standard action. The cone is 30 feet long and deals 2d8 points of fire damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + your master of masks level + your Cha modifier) halves the damage dealt. Once you use this ability, you can't use it again for 1d4 rounds. As you advance in the class, you can deal additional damage with this ability: 4d8 points at 4th level, 6d8 at 7th level, and 10d8 at 10th level.

Your alignment appears to be neutral evil while you wear a dragon mask.

Dante & Vergil
2009-09-22, 03:52 PM
The Dragon Disciple you guys are looking for is probably this one here (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48557). I asked around for ideas for playing a dragon there (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50211) to see what I could do to actually play a dragon and I think it can help anyone here as well. Also, I know this may not count, but I found this over there (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50217)as well. It's all pretty good in my opinion.