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View Full Version : [3.5] Boosting Feeblemind



Burley
2009-09-21, 09:20 AM
So, I've decided that Feeblemind is a disgustingly awesome spell. And, since my beguiler gets to cast it a half dozen times a day, I decided that I want to use it to destroy every caster that gets in my path.
So, help me out: I want to boost Feeblemind's potential. I'm willing to take Arcane Thesis, if that'll help. I'll probably take Heighten Spell later on.
Should I take Reach Spell, or do you think my invisibility will be enough?

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-21, 09:25 AM
Unless you have greater invisibility, Reach Spell is the best option. Even with GI, you're going to need Reach Spell against enemies with Blindsight.

IIRC, the Dragon Compendium has a Metamagic feat that allows Mind-Affecting spell to affect undead, but at the cost of halving the duration. Useful against Vampires/Liches/Wraiths and such.

AmberVael
2009-09-21, 09:25 AM
Should I take Reach Spell, or do you think my invisibility will be enough?

Why would you need Reach Spell for Feeblemind? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/feeblemind.htm) It isn't a touch spell. Its a target spell with a good range.

Talya
2009-09-21, 09:27 AM
So, I've decided that Feeblemind is a disgustingly awesome spell. And, since my beguiler gets to cast it a half dozen times a day, I decided that I want to use it to destroy every caster that gets in my path.


Be careful, for all they that take up the Feeblemind spell shall vegetate with the Feeblemind spell. You're an arcane caster; in my experience DMs tend to make the same tactical use out of spells as their players do. Throwing feeblemind around is a good way to find yourself unable to avoid drooling.


Why would you need Reach Spell for Feeblemind? It isn't a touch spell. Its a target spell with a good range.

Yeah, this is not a spell you need reach for...

daggaz
2009-09-21, 09:38 AM
lol, when I read the title, I thought to myself, why in God's name would any sane DM want to boost the power of this spell. Then I realized it was a player posting the thread, of course, of course! :smalltongue:

Claudius Maximus
2009-09-21, 09:41 AM
Veil of Allure from MIC will boost the DC by 2.

Burley
2009-09-21, 10:05 AM
Much to my chagrin, all magic item must be from the DMG.

And, Talya, I love and respect everything you have to say. I never thought the GM would use it against me.
The GM worked me into the story by having me as a secret agent for a group of dopplegangers who are trying to stop the half-dozen wars around the world. Since the group is neutral (should be evil) who have had problems with dopplegangers before, and I'm a neutral (should be good) doppleganger who was sent to try to steer them straight or wipe them out... Well, I want to be prepared to take out an opposition.

John Campbell
2009-09-21, 10:06 AM
What, the, "Oh, you'd get utterly screwed by this spell, but you have a good Will progression? Have a -4 penalty on your save! For no reason! Just because!" isn't good enough?

Godskook
2009-09-21, 10:28 AM
They could've made it a transmutation spell with a fort save without really changing anything, except that [mind-affecting] tag on it.

@Burley, from your description, you've probably already broken out the 7th level spells, right? Be careful, cause if you start walking around with a SoSuck that's mind-affecting, mind blank isn't too unreasonable(Leaving alone Talya's arm-race concerns).

IthilanorStPete
2009-09-21, 10:30 AM
You could use Reach Spell + Mind Poison (lvl 3 spell, SC) to soften them up - it's a Fort save or 1d10 Wis damage, and another one a minute later. Also, the DC is 10+spellcasting ability mod+1/2 caster level.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-21, 10:53 AM
Advanced Learning: phantasmal assailants helps too: 8 Dex and 8 Wis damage. It's an illusion, so Will save to negate, Fort save half, but it certainly softens your target up for a feebleminding.

Eloel
2009-09-21, 10:57 AM
Advanced Learning: phantasmal assailants helps too: 8 Dex and 8 Wis damage. It's an illusion, so Will save to negate, Fort save half, but it certainly softens your target up for a feebleminding.

Soften for feeblemind? Cast it twice, and there are only a few characters that actually aren't paralyzed by 0Dex or 0Wis (only a few monks with emphasis on Dex & Str. But really, who cares about monks?).

Person_Man
2009-09-21, 11:01 AM
I'd also like to say that it's a bad idea to focus too much on any one tactic, especially one spell. It's too easy for the DM to throw in enemies who are immune. This is particularly important for the Beguiler to avoid, since 80% of his spells are worthless against mind-effecting immune enemies (undead, plants, constructs, vermin, etc).

Burley
2009-09-21, 11:21 AM
Actually, when I start of Wednesday, I'll be 9th level, which may or may not be a level of Master of Masks. We'll see.
So, boosting one spell is bad. I see.... Hm... Anything else I should not do?

Heliomance
2009-09-21, 11:39 AM
So, boosting one spell is bad. I see....

And yet maximised empowered split ray twinned Enervation is still hilarious.

Leewei
2009-09-21, 02:33 PM
Beguilers already have decent "softeners" in their arsenal:

mind fog
touch of idiocy
vertigo
crushing despair

... just to name a handful.

Ideally, though, you keep your actions simple and efficient. Boosting the spell DC is the best way to go. Heighten Spell is surprisingly nice this way. Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus are both handy enough.

I'm guessing the DM is allowing spells from other source books, just not magic items? If so, go buy a few Scrolls of mystic surge for those special occasions.

Saph
2009-09-21, 02:35 PM
And yet maximised empowered split ray twinned Enervation is still hilarious.

Oh look, every enemy the party encounters is now undead, a construct, or immune to RTAs. I wonder why that happened. :P

ericgrau
2009-09-21, 03:31 PM
What, the, "Oh, you'd get utterly screwed by this spell, but you have a good Will progression? Have a -4 penalty on your save! For no reason! Just because!" isn't good enough?

If ever someone said, "I don't care what bonus you give him, it's fine, he's melee", then that applies double to not nerfing anything that already exists and hurts casters.

Kelpstrand
2009-09-21, 04:42 PM
Be careful, for all they that take up the Feeblemind spell shall vegetate with the Feeblemind spell. You're an arcane caster; in my experience DMs tend to make the same tactical use out of spells as their players do. Throwing feeblemind around is a good way to find yourself unable to avoid drooling.

The logical extension of this sort of thinking is that he should just not cast spells or use any abilities. It's like saying, "Play a Commoner, if you play an actual Beguiler, the DM will just make your day harder!" Using Feeblemind on opponents is a valid thing to do as an Arcane Caster. Worst case, grab Keen Intellect to push your save too high for Feeblemind to be worth it.


Beguilers already have decent "softeners" in their arsenal:

mind fog
touch of idiocy
vertigo
crushing despair

... just to name a handful

Those aren't really softeners at all. Touch of Idiocy just makes your Feeblemind do less. Vertigo, Mind Fog, and Crushing Despair are all will saves, so what you proved is that if they fail a will save, it is possible they might fail another will save next round.

If you want to actually feeblemind people, you should never cast any of those spells. You should just cast Feeblemind.