Why is Haley keeping her father's dilemma a secret?

[Turkish Delight]

Maybe this is answered in Origin of PCs, but from the web comic itself I can't figure it out. Isn't it better to have everyone in the party know why she so desperately needs to save up money rather than cultivate this reputation as being insanely greedy? She tells Elan almost as if it's some horrible, guilty secret.

What's so bad here? "Hey, my dad is held by an evil tyrant and I need to save up money to rescue him." Seems like a perfectly valid goal to me.

[Kish]

Because Hiding is her best skill.

Using more words, the point of the ephasia plot arc is that Haley keeps secrets pathologically. Not telling the rest of the group isn't meant to be a logical, reasoned decision. Actually telling Elan, on the other hand, is meant to be a psychological breakthrough.

[Fireballing_Fun]

Because by telling the group she lets them know she relies on them, that she needs their help. It is far more empowering for them to believe that she is some confident, independent mercenary.

[NerfTW]

So, how exactly does one read the ENTIRE comic up until this point and not realize that Haley has a problem opening up to people?

For the record, she started opening up just as the battle started. That wasn't a good time for revelations. Then she was with Belkar and Celia, not exactly people she wants to open up to.

When she got back with the group, it was implied that she confided the entire sordid affair to Elan, since it was part of the reason she left the guild and Bozzok wanted her dead.

It's pretty clear she or Elan will share it with the group soon, but still, she's only shown complete trust in Elan, not Roy and Durkon yet.

[Cizak]

So, how exactly does one read the ENTIRE comic up until this point and not realize that Haley has a problem opening up to people?

This. Darn 10-letters-minimum-rule.

[Turkish Delight]

So, how exactly does one read the ENTIRE comic up until this point and not realize that Haley has a problem opening up to people?

About being in love with Elan? Or killing her rival in cold blood? Both perfectly justifiable and understandable reasons to clam up.

In this case it's just keeping a big secret for absolutely no explainable reason whatsoever. It's keeping a secret 'just because', even though it changes nothing about their situation and in fact would both make her money-grubbing ways more sympathetic to her companions and keep them informed of the situation.

You all seem to operate on the assumption that it's enough that she isn't a very forthcoming person. I'm not so sure.

[Berserk Monk]

panel five strip 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html).

quote: :haley:"Well, I guess I have some stuff to tell you, too. Starting with my father..."

[NerfTW]

That's not just an assumption. We saw it during her conversations with her inner voice. Her inner voice was telling her that if she opens up to anyone about her past, they'll just leave her again, like her mother did.

We don't know the specifics, but we do know from her inner dialouge that she's lost people she's cared about, and keeps any future teammates at arms length to avoid being hurt again. Also, we haven't really seen her going after money since losing it all. At least not around anyone she'd tell about her father.

[Turkish Delight]

That's not just an assumption. We saw it during her conversations with her inner voice. Her inner voice was telling her that if she opens up to anyone about her past, they'll just leave her again, like her mother did.

Which would be understandable if Haley's dilemma was something horribly embarrassing, or something which reflected terribly on her, or otherwise something which could conceivably drive people away from her. Haley revealing her father's imprisonment does none of those things. Given that she has no appearance of trying to force anyone else to do her 'quest' with her, which could possibly drive them away, it is just a neutral fact with about as much impact on anyone else as if she had announced she was saving up her money to buy a giant gold-plated yacht. If anything, it makes her look better and more sympathetic to everyone else.

So I suppose it's possible it is just Haley only divulging information on an absolutely, completely need-to-know basis even around her closest colleagues, even when there is no sane reason to keep that information hidden. I'm going to break with that view and venture a guess that it's more likely that there is something we currently don't know that renders the whole situation embarrassing or damning enough that she doesn't want anyone to know for a reason, beyond just being generically secretive about things.

[Thanatosia]

Which would be understandable if Haley's dilemma was something horribly embarrassing, or something which reflected terribly on her, or otherwise something which could conceivably drive people away from her
Again, you are insisting that Haley has to be totaly Logical about what she shares and what she keeps to herself. People are not logic machines, we act irrationaly at times, and people have hang-ups. As others have said, she keeps secrets because keeping secrets has become an habitual way of life for her, she does not need a logical reason to not share with the group.

[David Argall]

Was there actually a reason to tell the party? It's not likely they are going to kick in 30,000+ gold each to help her out. And with her background, their knowing would give them reason not to trust her with the party funds. Not that they really trust her anyway, but not knowing, they assume she will stick around to keep on robbing them. Knowing, they realize there is a threat that once they have 200,000 collected that it, and Haley, will vanish into the night.
And Haley is greedy. That is merely augmented by her need to rescue Dad. Origin She expects Dad to pay her the money back.

There really doesn't seem to be a good reason to tell.

[The Extinguisher]

Which would be understandable if Haley's dilemma was something horribly embarrassing, or something which reflected terribly on her, or otherwise something which could conceivably drive people away from her. Haley revealing her father's imprisonment does none of those things. Given that she has no appearance of trying to force anyone else to do her 'quest' with her, which could possibly drive them away, it is just a neutral fact with about as much impact on anyone else as if she had announced she was saving up her money to buy a giant gold-plated yacht. If anything, it makes her look better and more sympathetic to everyone else.

So I suppose it's possible it is just Haley only divulging information on an absolutely, completely need-to-know basis even around her closest colleagues, even when there is no sane reason to keep that information hidden. I'm going to break with that view and venture a guess that it's more likely that there is something we currently don't know that renders the whole situation embarrassing or damning enough that she doesn't want anyone to know for a reason, beyond just being generically secretive about things.

I think the fact that it was Haley's personification of her self-loathing that told her this is good enough reason to assume she THINKS it will drive people away.

Haley is not exactly the most secure person around.

[Nights1stStar]

I never found Haley keeping secrets out of character. Remember, she grew up in Gresky City, home of the Thieves Guild and one of the most criminal cities in the campaign. Neighbors kill each other there like most households eat meals: regularly, and thinking nothing about it. In Haley's own words, everyone she grew up with was a "complete *******", and she had no problems killing them when the time came. Spending 23 years in that kind of hometown, she'd naturally develop a secretive demeanor. Her father might even have encouraged it. (Besides, as Elan pointed out, secrecy is good for drama, which is good for the plot.)

Sure, it might seem illogical to continue carrying that habit with her trustworthy adventuring party, but any more illogical than Belkar's wanton need to kill things? Or Vaarsuvius' long speeches? Or Elan's stupidity? Or Durkon's love of trees? All of the OOTS members have quirks and dysfunctions (even Roy can be surprisingly immature at times), but that just makes them better-developed as characters, and it doesn't stop the Order of the Stick or this comic from being fun, badass, and utterly and completely awesome. :smallcool:

[Katana_Geldar]

One thing I am wondering is if Elan will let it slip and the party will know that way.

:smile: Welcome to Tyrannia, ruled by our wonderful leader Lord Tyrinar.
:elan: Oooh! Haley! Isn't that the guy who has imprisoned your father and is holding him for-
:haley: (puts a hand over his mouth) Elan...I said...
:roy: Imprisoned?
:durkon: Ransomed?
:roy: Haley, why didn't you tell us earlier? We could have helped you out.

[holywhippet]

One thing I am wondering is if Elan will let it slip and the party will know that way.



Honestly, I'm expecting it could be more like this:

:smile: Welcome to Tyrannia, ruled by our wonderful leader Lord Tyrinar.
:elan: Dad?

[Sewblon]

The rest of the party can't do much about her father's imprisonment right now so why should she burden them with that? And in Belkar's case, why would anyone open up to him about anything? Like everyone else said, 90% of her craft is deception in one form or another so why would she explain her de facto goals to anyone with no reason?

[SPoD]

Today's strip seems like an obvious set-up to answer the OP's question within the next 1-2 strips, with Elan asking Haley WHY she doesn't want to tell the others about her dad, so I suggest that we all wait and see.

My money is on simple pathological secrecy, perhaps specifically stemming from how Daddy raised her to be a thief.

[Katana_Geldar]

10gp says that Elan gives them away.

[Raging Gene Ray]

10gp says that Elan gives them away.

30 gp says he gives them away AND it turns out to be one of the best things that ever happened for Haley.

What? I'm feeling optimistic.

[Lissou]

By telling people about herself, she feels she's making herself vulnerable. Her secrets are like a wall she puts between her and the others. Her greediness as well.
She feels like she's not good enough, so if she shows herself the way she is, she won't be accepted. She probably feels better about being disliked for something she's not than something that she is. And if what she isn't is accepted, then she's not going to want to reveal it's not real.

This being said, she IS greedy, imprisoned father or not.

[Turkish Delight]

I keep on making threads that end up tying into the most recent comics. I'm sure it's just freak coincidence, but it makes me feel very psychic.

[dps]

Which would be understandable if Haley's dilemma was something horribly embarrassing, or something which reflected terribly on her, or otherwise something which could conceivably drive people away from her. Haley revealing her father's imprisonment does none of those things. Given that she has no appearance of trying to force anyone else to do her 'quest' with her, which could possibly drive them away, it is just a neutral fact with about as much impact on anyone else as if she had announced she was saving up her money to buy a giant gold-plated yacht. If anything, it makes her look better and more sympathetic to everyone else.

So I suppose it's possible it is just Haley only divulging information on an absolutely, completely need-to-know basis even around her closest colleagues, even when there is no sane reason to keep that information hidden. I'm going to break with that view and venture a guess that it's more likely that there is something we currently don't know that renders the whole situation embarrassing or damning enough that she doesn't want anyone to know for a reason, beyond just being generically secretive about things.

There are certainly secrets from Haley's past that we don't know about, and it's possible that one or more of those secrets could give her a logical reason to not tell her teammates about her father's imprisonment, but it seems likely that her reticence is based more on emotion than logic. Basically, she's very insecure and a bit paranoid.

[ref]

oooh, I see what you did with the thread title...

[Turkish Delight]

Huh. Well, I guess that answers that.

[AxeD]

Yeah, looks like #681 pretty much sums it all up. Its still pretty amazing how so many people in this thread could predict Haley's need for secrecy.

[Ancalagon]

Its still pretty amazing how so many people in this thread could predict Haley's need for secrecy.

Not a big surprise as it was stated several times before ("Hiding is my best skill" etc)

[SwordsageErrant]

Rogues most likely value their independence, and would not want even their comrades to know when they're in a tough situation.