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Waargh!

2009-09-21, 01:10 PM

This thread is reserved for the creators of our game

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 01:19 PM

OK, this are some questions we should as ourselves.

First, what do we want to do? This will take a long time since it is hard for a big group of people to agree on something. What do we want to do? Do we want to create new mechanics from scratch or are we using a system already on existance like d20 system? What kind of game will it be? Setting, general flavour? What?

Lets brainstorm for a while and then vote.

Waargh!

2009-09-21, 01:39 PM

First of all lets start talking about the genre of the game.

I also want to inform that I will have to do a surgery on the 24. I hope to be out the other day but might also take up to 4 days.

At one point we will be divided in groups responsible for each task. But every weeks lets say, or twice a week we will post what we have done and everybody will have a saying on the progress ideas of others.

About the genre:
Personally, I don't have a great experience of existing RPG games. I will set some requirements though
a) We should aim to do something kind of new.
b) When choosing between the style of the game (fantasy, far in the future, space, dark times, medieval, etc etc) we should take into acount what other games already exist in that area. We should aim on a style that we believe that "another rpg" would be nice to have

I would propose a game that takes place in our future. So a modern/future world. Low-magic, high technology, alien races. I prefer fantasy based on existing history because you can more easily imagine how things will be in a world you already known, than how things are in a completely new fantasy world.

I would also suggest the goverments and the powers of the world to have strict laws. Or in general the world to have strict laws. That would make the players focus more on the world and help them role-play based on these laws. It will also give some guidelines to the GM. "Why not become invisible and steal everything in a shop rather than buy it" a player might think. The GM will have to give a reason or create some rules to make the world economical system functionable. And there are lots and lots examples. So if these things are already set in the world it will make the GM life easier and player can RP more easily. If the GM wants to make something completely different then he has nothing to lose.

A generally prefer very-low-magic or a world based on magic.

I really believe that the Game has to offer a lot of choices outside battles and encounters in general. And the mechanics to have rules to cover how the characters interact with the world.

Discuss about ideas and in the end we will vote what we prefer. Whoever doesn't like the general choice is free to withdraw from the team without missunderstandings and hard feelings.

Vadin

2009-09-21, 02:18 PM

As an outside observer, would it be out of place for me to offer something?

Mechanics: Everybody and his cousin has made a d20 rehash. Some are excellent, some are less so. Recasting these rules to your own ends could be an easier option than something from scratch, but it won't stand out as much.

Flavor: Pseudo-medieval fantasy has been done. It can still be done well and often is, but it won't look quite as original as other things. Same for science-fiction and modern fantasy settings. Some areas that I've noticed a distinct lack of: the Neolithic Era (cavemen and giant animals and extreme environments), Rome (great for political intrigue, not so great for combat-oriented adventuring), Epic Mythology (Gilgamesh and Jason and Hercules, etc., etc.), and 1700's fantasy (generals taking on armies of unnatural soldiers, common heroes with uncommon abilities rising up to thwart the plans of the aristocracy, rebellion after rebellion after rebellion- all mixed with vampires and werewolves and other behind-the-scenes magic. Check out D1's Mythpunk (http://mythpunk.blogspot.com/2009/08/wealth-of-nations.html) for more examples). I'm sure you guys will come up with something excellent, but an out-of-the-box premise can make a decent game into an outstanding experience.

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 03:37 PM

I really like Vadin's ideas here. I wanted to do something with a primitive feeling as well as an ancient rome kind of thing. The 1700's is an intresting idea, far enough from the middle ages and the renaissance but not to far to fall into something more victorian or ireversably affected by the industrial revolution, and even as awesome a steampunk world coud be, it has been done way too much.

Herw are some suggestions, post apocalyptic wordl. It can take some of the above premises but people knows thhat there was something here before them, they might find ancient wonderful technology or magic, alien to their own culture and timeline.

The epic advetures have been done actually, I think that's the idea behind exalted, and the sci fi ideas Waargh! proposed reminded me of star wars and shadowrun, with the futuristic theme and low magic.

I remember an AD&D 2nd edition illustration on one of the core books, I think it was the dungeon masters guide, of a greek looking warrior (short sword, bronze shield, tunic, etc...) beign attacked by a robotic lion on a red desert, now, that could be taking things to an extreme, but it always cought my atention as something that was really out of tone with the typical medieval fantasy campaign DnD ussualy plays, but it was something awesome and creative.

Waargh!

2009-09-21, 04:41 PM

I don't really like the idea of having the world in a past time. You leave a little room for fantasy, for something more exciting. And if you just involve magic then it will have be done. If you don't then it is just as it was, no fantasy in it. Well, at least that is how I see it. Mythologies also have inspired every already-made fantasy game, nothing new there either.

So, from the above posts I will assume that a prehistorical kind of setting hasn't been really made. That is interesting. In a few words a world that is not civilized. Mass jungles, big deserts, all kind of hazards. Big monsters, like dinosaurs, all kind of races that are xenophobic and live in small tribes. The characters will focus on exploring and surviving. We could add magic, psionic abilities, strange biological abilities etc etc to make the characters more colourful and fun to play. The problem I find with a not so civilized world setting is that a lot of social skills and mechanisms won't be available. So that part has to be implemented if we choose that era

Szatany

2009-09-21, 04:59 PM

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 05:08 PM

If we go prehistoric we also have to avoid Conan and Dark Sun, yeah, those weren't exactly prehistoric, but the barbaric uncivilized feeling of both was.

You know whatwasquite intresting? If you have ever played Chrono Trigger, then you'll probably remember the ice age. People on the earth lived prehistoric lives, while some sort of mage overlords ruled the sky in over the top flying magi tech castles, again, I dont want to copy something or say that we should do something like it,what I meant was to give an example of strange and creative settings.

This reminds me of an idea I once had for an RPG. The premise was that every player had to choose an era of human kind from prehistoric times to a near future and make a character from that era, then, the game itself was about beign resurrected after you, for some reason got frozen (be it by cryogenics, getting lost in the artic or even magic), and you woke up on a sort of post apocaliptic world. Human kind had to live on cities under the ground, people were few, and something horrible roamed the surface (I never decided what actually). Players then, formed a squad that was sent on missions through big portals humans built while they were at their top moment. The problem? No one knows where the portal will take you. Basically, you are depolyed on some random location, looking for survivors, resources, more frozen people or whatever useful thing you might find before the portal closes.

Thieves

2009-09-21, 05:13 PM

What I'm worried with much more is not the setting - it can be changed in a variety of ways, e.g. D&D, while normally magic-full, works well without any psionic stuff and can be adapted into low-to-no magic settings (such as the Iron Heroes book).

I'm actually frying my brain now trying to come up with a statistics, abilities and skills system. I guess I'll try to grab the idea from a molecular level by drawing a mindmap or something.

And also wanted to say: in my opinion a prehistoric world would have just too little too offer. It's not like they could actually do anything but hunt, survive, mate and sometimes get a blessing / charm from their oracle / shaman so that they could hunt, survive and mate more effectively (sorry for being blunt here). It's just that I can find no real grounds for adventure here. I mean, the atmosphere could be cool, but I can't imagine what could you actually want to do. Adventuring is also - for some, mostly - travelling and getting to know different places, and there's not much to explore if we assume that all there is are civilizations at tribal level

A sci-fantasy? Two things immediately come to my mind: spelljammer and The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. Didn't play SJ but I would rather go in the direction of full s-f if given the choice; sci-fantasy just sounds too kitsch for me, and not in the good way (imagine an elf with a longsword and clad in silvery armor and fighting a giant robotic spider, gives me shivers). However, s-f where technology just went sparse and is now revered as something nearly divine, like in The Foundation, is something much more my league.

But as I said: I'd rather focus on the mechanics instead than spend days or weeks discussing our setting of interest. Let's aim at making a likeable, intuitive and efficient system (in that order); it will take long enough so that it doesn't need to be delayed. Sorry, setting-making is much more enjoyable, I know, but it just isn't what we're totally aiming at, is it? I know these two intertwine, but hell, we have to choose the way this world works! No world-creating demiurge thought about the color of the trees before he found a way to bring them into existence, right?

Sorry for shouting if someone feels shouted at :smallwink:

Vadin

2009-09-21, 05:28 PM

How about sci-fantasy?
In a future a planet is set for colonization, but for whatever reason (perhaps weather screws with electronic equipment very badly) the settlers are stranded and no help ever comes. Over centuries people devolve to a medieval-like state, some mutate to form new races (a replacement for elves, orcs, etc.).
Planet's atmosphere or whatever allows also psionic abilities to develop in the settlers.
Electronics don't work, passing knowledge is difficult and the past is being forgotten.
Then there is indigenous life...

Oh goodness. This gave me a crazy idea. Well, not crazy, but interesting.

Gods Among Men. Outsiders who are fewer in number but superior to the indigenous people. For example, on Krypton, the Kryptonians weren't too different from humans. On Earth, however, a Kryptonian gains incredible abilities and Superman saves the day.

The settlers land in a region where a large but growing pre-industrial empire is expanding. Out of the sky in this backwoods but promising area a great meteor falls. And from this great gleaming metal vessel emerges a host of strange beings who wear otherworldly outfits and can stop the strongest soldier with little more than a thought (or so it appears).

Time has passed since the setting's focus. A peace treaty has already been negotiated with the nearby empire, who agreed to make the alien settlers full citizens whose now-divine land would not be taxed or infringed upon. Rumors circulate around the empire that these are the children of the gods, or the gods themselves!

As the children on the colony ship grow older, the Old Technology begins to fall into disrepair. The laser guns stop firing as batteries are emptied, communication becomes difficult as solar panels crack, and learning slows down as vid-screens are broken. The ship is still largely complete, however, so certain onboard facilities (like the Medical Ward (including the Surgery Bay and Prosthetic Replacement Bay) and the Hydroponic Gardens) continue to function. The parents have noticed differences in many of their children, however. These aren't kids as they knew them. The new world has made them taller, stronger, faster, and smarter. Some even have what might be interpreted as psionic abilities- they can guess what number you're thinking 3 times out of 4, and the dice tend to land a bit too often in their favor (and don't even begin to ask about how things tend to mysteriously change places around them). Those kids that don't manifest strange powers or grow unusually tall and strong are those that were injured in the initial landing and had to have artificial body parts created. These cybernetics are their own advantage, though- most allow the wearer to link themselves to the computer's database without requiring any interface, and the limbs are all far more powerful than a standard person's appendages (and, as the cybernetics draw on the body's own energy, a laser attachment rarely stops working).

Through combinations of Inborn Physical Abilities, Cybernetic Enhancements, and Psionic Talents, the gods among men travel the world. Some work with the empire to quell rebellions and defeat enemy armies, some aid the common people by healing their wounds and saving their lives, and some venture beyond the empire's borders into the vast unknown that is this world their parent's landed on.

But that's just an idea off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other ideas that are probably even cooler.

(Oh, and also count me in for fluff and editing, I suppose)

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 05:37 PM

Crazy but lovable idea, players are a sort of super soldiers, it has potential, and a lot, specially because I love cyberpunk :smalltongue:

Anyway, it still needs some tunning, for some reason it feels a bit, limited.

Vadin

2009-09-21, 05:49 PM

Anyway, it still needs some tunning, for some reason it feels a bit, limited.

A lot of settings feel like that at first glance. For example,

"What happens in D&D?"
"Adventurers go into big mazes that wizards make and kill monsters and get treasure."
"Ok, yes, that does happen, but you can also..."

"What happens in Mage: The Awakening?"
"People with magic powers fight things in cities and hide from normal people."
"Ok, yeah, that's a part of it, but don't forget about things like..."

"What happens in this setting?"
"Superhumans fight through rebel fortress and mazes and explore lost cities and fight unusual monsters."
"That's certainly in there, but these things can happen too..."

Setting-shock is something to keep in mind when evaluating anything new. Your mind will read through and think of a bunch of things that could happen, and then decide a bunch of those things couldn't happen because 'no GM would really run that' or 'that would be too hard to do with the mechanics' or 'no absolutely everyone would think that part is fun'. An important thing to do when you are looking at things from a purely fluff point of view is forget all of those things. If somebody somewhere would enjoy a part of it, include that part. If it would require a lot of explanation for a GM to run, then be sure to explain it to them well. If it would be hard to emulate with mechanics you know intimately, look elsewhere or make your own. These are all especially important to remember when making everything from the ground up like we are here.

Kallisti

2009-09-21, 06:08 PM

I'm open to pretty much any setting, but I'd like to do something original. I kind of like the idea of a 1700's-era game...it has potential, and I don't think it's been done before.

The prehistoric world could work, but there wouldn't be much to do...

...what about something more advanced than prehistoric, but not by too much? Like Aztecs? An Aztec/Inca-style tribal empire might be interesting...

Szatany

2009-09-21, 06:17 PM

I'm open to pretty much any setting, but I'd like to do something original. I kind of like the idea of a 1700's-era game...it has potential, and I don't think it's been done before.

Isn't 7th Sea about that period?

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 06:51 PM

I have an Idea:
Everyone is a mage. You can choose a discipline (fire, earth, water, summoning, buffing, necromancy, etc) to get a discount on when buying spells, and more powerful spells cost more. You can fight, and different disciplines give a bunch of traits, of which you choose two (fire can give a heat aura, 1/day sheathed in flames, resistance to fire, etc) and 1 or 2 random weaknesses.

Kallisti

2009-09-21, 06:55 PM

Isn't 7th Sea about that period?

Probably, but it focuses more on "ZOMG PIRATES!!" than "ZOMG 1700's ERA!!" Someone earlier suggested a game set in the American Frontier, and I think that could be interesting, and is pretty original.

Although I'm hardly wedded to the idea.

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 07:53 PM

I really like some advanced technology stuff, maybe there is a way to have the 1700 era feeling but having post cyberpunk technology available.

TheRedMage

2009-09-21, 08:13 PM

If you're discouraged by text walls, look at the bottom.

I, actually, *was* thinking about maybe some sort of a setting where gods were made in chambers in a small alien facility, and had to discover potential, as well as not being immortal like the stories say. Maybe they could appear that way, but they actually aren't. However, that crashing-on-alien-planet one also sounds pretty cool. As for Aztec/Incas, there's the fact that armor was pretty terrible then. You would be struck, and grievously wounded. However, it wouldn't be THAT hard to COMBINE all of them. To illustrate my point, let me show you.

Humans scientists crash land on planet, communications fail. They were assigned a research mission, and decide for it to take place on the new planet. The planet is about in Aztec/Inca era, but with different kinds of metals, ETC. They begin experimenting on the people, modifying them with certain things, E.G. repulsion fields, ETC... However, a downside to that is it looks like we were extremely indecisive.

As for the 1700s mythology, that would be hard to make it look original. Although it's a seldom-explored area, with a lot of untapped potential, it's still fairly explored.

Jump here if you looked at top and saw text wall, glance over to 2nd to last paragraph

*I* personally say, we make a setting where the characters exist in an extra dimension. Instantly bypassing armor, vanishing, and the like. However, to balance that out, there has to be a VILLAIN, also in an extra dimension, or you can only sometimes tap into the 4th spatial dimension. As in, you have a deposit of points, with a maximum, that refreshes every day you sleep. You can spend one point to go into the fourth dimension, instantly making something successful, or the like. For instance, you battle the Black Knight, to take a random character. You swing your sword, and he raises his shield. You know you can't hit him like this, and you burst into the 4th spatial dimension. Your arm vanishes, and reappears in front of a chink in his armor, lunging at an incredible pace. Your blade pierces him, and he falls pulls back, grievously wounded, and very angry...

Also, heavy acrobatics are nice sometimes. Combined with the extra spatial dimension, you could do amazing things. Leap through space to inside an enemy, instantly bursting him, your sword appearing inside an opponent's chest, all sorts of things that would make it super vicious. However, for game balance purposes, you would have to make it impossible to make something appear already inside someone. This would work extremely well in Aztec/Inca era, in my opinion, or 1700s mythology. However, I would say a more warlike civilization, not in our history, but like it, with a huge rebellion, and you can take a side.

I would also say, things appearing from our time line/mythology, E.G. vampires, Frankenstein, Werewolves, The Black Knight, King Arthur, aliens, ETC would be pretty cool. Imagine King Arthur, fighting a Werewolf kingdom with Alien troops with lasers, while King Arthur is in a suit of power armor, and you're standing in one as well, leaping in and out of the combat, slashing through them in half-seconds...

To cut it short: Tapping into extra spatial dimension, with no teleporting inside people/things + Castle/country/ETC set outside our time but like it with huge rebellion to quell/throw down king + Things appearing from our history/mythology = Probable good game

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 08:21 PM

Wow.
TheRedMage gets an Internet. Definitely.
Anyone like my idea?

TheRedMage

2009-09-21, 08:29 PM

That does look pretty cool. Didn't see that before. It has to be balanced though, unlike Pokemon, which is pretty unbalanced, considering some types have EXTREMELY few weaknesses, and some types are immune to other types' attacks. Done properly though, that could be really cool. Add in a giant arena and you can get some pretty cool stuff...

The water mage and the fire mage glared, the water atop a small wave, and the fire on a meteor*. Fire draws his hands back, a ball of lava forming, and looses it at Water. Water raises a giant wave, freezing it and backing it with water. From the shadows, a Lightning mage steps up, and lances into the water, shocking through it, throwing Water's mind off enough for the lava ball to get through and obliterate him. Water wakes up, somewhere off to the side, and watches as Fire turns to face Lightning...

*Originally said as Comet before I realized Comet was ice.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 08:48 PM

I was thinking about a point buy power list, with other powers as prerequisites. Example:

Spark(All Fire and Lightning)
Flame Ball(1)
Burn(3)
Flame Wreath (4)
Meteor (6)

Stats to come later! Are we going to vote on this eventually?

Also, I wasn't thinking of pokemon. Weird, huh?

Vadin

2009-09-21, 08:52 PM

Probably, but it focuses more on "ZOMG PIRATES!!" than "ZOMG 1700's ERA!!" Someone earlier suggested a game set in the American Frontier, and I think that could be interesting, and is pretty original.

Although I'm hardly wedded to the idea.

AWWWW. DUDE. American Frontier + Magicish stuff. I remember a setting once with intelligent dinosaurs, Union VS. Confederacy, robots, aliens, steampunk, and spaceships...goodness I wish I could remember the name. It was so cool.

But yeah...Cowboys+Magic. Cool combination, especially if magic is far away and rare. OH! Ok. Idea!

The werewolves and vampires and witches of Europe all came across with the Old World settlers and haunted the East Coast for generations. As people became more and more urban, however, there were fewer places to hide. As a result, there was a mass migration of myth out West, where the land was empty and the people were superstitious. And so on and so forth. Enchanted pistols, demonic cattle rustlers, mad science armies, breaking into underground Indian burial complexes (we can bend history quite a bit), and fendin' off Mexican invasions and pissed of Injuns. Could be pretty cool.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 09:48 PM

It is Project AWESOME, BTW.

Coplantor

2009-09-21, 09:55 PM

Project awesome is the name ofa setting I'm developing wich includes samurais, ninjas, pirates, cowboys, cthulhu, wizards, steampunk, dinosaurs, vampires and werewolves, all mixed together into something that, believe it or not, is playable and makes sense.

Here be the link to the original thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103316)
And here are some variant rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125235)

Devixer

2009-09-21, 10:51 PM

I like the idea of a Western RPG with a spritz or two of magic. But why don't we bring up the technology level to modern times? I've always liked the idea of an RPG based on modern combat, and I think putting magic in it would work well, as long as we don't make it extremely overpowered. It would open up oppurtunities for some interesting mechanics, as well.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 10:53 PM

On Magic:
Will we use a scaling system like mine? Or vancian or binder-style?

Devixer

2009-09-21, 10:56 PM

I personally like the idea of a scaling system of magic.

TheRedMage

2009-09-21, 11:04 PM

I guess Wild West does sound pretty cool, but I still want something with extra spatial dimensions, which would still work in Wild West with a spritz of magic, depending on the can.

The bullet whizzed through the air, then phased through the wall, embedding itself in the brain of the criminal on the other side. As his body slumped to the floor, his henchmen quickly got up, drew their weapons, and rushed outside for the confrontation...

I think I'm pretty good at that italicizing hook, don't you? Maybe I could write hooks for adventures.

Edit: And scaling magic is also better, in my opinion. I prefer trees to regular D&D's system, though.

Devixer

2009-09-21, 11:07 PM

Both those hooks of yours are pretty good. You could probably write a majority of them.

Also, if nobody minds, I will be starting a forum for the creation of this game pretty soon.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-21, 11:08 PM

Yay! So, we need stats soon. Maybe we could have half of us work on stats and half of us work on setting. We should probably finish deciding what era it is in first. I vote for 1700's and magic!

I think we should have a point buy system (for HP, stats, spells, etc) You can choose to get a discount on 1 or 2 things (fighters wanting stats and HP, mages wanting some spell type, etc) Also, what part should we work on first? I think we should do the guns/melee first.

Devixer

2009-09-21, 11:11 PM

I think we should do basic combat first.

My vote for setting goes to modern times, with magic. If that is not an option, 1800's with magic.

Vadin

2009-09-22, 12:38 AM

It is Project AWESOME, BTW.

No, no, it was a published setting from (I think) the '80s. Part of the premise was that space travel was developed in the mid-1800's and the Confederacy, upon losing the Civil War, was forced off the planet and colonized the moon or something. Then the Union started colonizing planets and found a planet with a lot of jungles and sentient dinosaurs, and they set up forts and such and fought some dinosaurs and worked with others, and there was some mysterious alien technology laying around that people used/were used by.

Before we start assuming that the system has HP, Stats, and Combat Rules (or at least that that's what those things are called), let's get things boiled down to what we need the system to be able to do.

For example, in D&D we need characters to be able to be a magic-user or a non-magic user, we need them to be able to be better and worse at certain things because of their race (and it should give them special abilities, too), and we need to handle combats that involve magic, mundane weaponry, and large numbers of participants.

This brings us to one of the biggest questions right now: should the system be built to work with the fluff (like World of Darkness), or should the system be fluff-independent (like GURPS).

I'm personally more a fan of the first option. If I'm playing a pirate game, I want it to flow well and be piratical. I don't want to have to go through a lot of extra steps and work because I chose to play a pirate game and not a space police game.

On the other hand, creating a system that can emulate (well) a fight between a jedi and a stegosaurus and a race between a giant and dragster is an admirable (but often difficult when people start bringing in assumptions that needn't be there) goal.

Universal systems can be anywhere from cumbersomely complicated (yes, I find GURPS quite complicated, and yes, I've tried to learn it multiple times) to gloriously simple (RISUS). Maybe in this system we're making, character's don't have HP, they instead have a certain number of hits they can take before they're out of the fight. Perhaps their Hits is equal to a stat that increases with experience, or perhaps characters in this system aren't meant to advance (or at least not advance that).

tl;dr: What, really, do we need to happen in the game? When we start working on mechanics, are we making mechanics that make this one game flow excellently, or are we building rules that will be used in games of various genres?

Szatany

2009-09-22, 01:03 AM

But yeah...Cowboys+Magic. Cool combination, especially if magic is far away and rare. OH! Ok. Idea!

Deadlands.

Vadin

2009-09-22, 01:20 AM

Deadlands.

Ahhhhhhh, of course! How could I forget about Deadlands... always wanted to try a game of it, but could never convince my group to give it a shot.

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 03:32 AM

I suggest the opposite. No universal system. A system that works well in a specific world. So we can actually offer something that doesn't already exist.

Think "what do RPGs offer?" The best part is obviously to role play a character. Now think of DnD 4e and what it offers for roleplaying. A few things really. The idea was to create a simple system for characters to interact and the rest is on the imagination of the DM and the players. I would prefer an evolution of these kind of RPGs. Offer the player with more options especially outside battles. Give them a world that makes the players "feel" more what is happening.

Aim high for something different. The era doesn't matter it we can use whatever era. The point is to choose something with flexibility that we can add all the interesting things we will think about.

OK. There are too many options. I propose to make some suggestion for voting.
Post something like this

Suggestion: DnD
-Medieval like era. Multiple races. Magic is common but not for everybody. All kind of monsters. Civilizations exist but also unexplored world. Etc etc
-Players play adventurers. Free from everyday worries. Not dependent so much to other groups.
-The story takes mostly place in dungeons or dungeon-like areas, where the characters explore and fight monsters
-The game mechanics focus mostly on encounters and how the characters can make simple thinks (skills). The talking part, role playing, is up to the players and the GM. All the "happenings" in the city, the political system etc etc is either up to the GM or are not that important.

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 03:46 AM

Also, post what you want to do in general. Some areas are:

Game mechanics: we make the game mechanics. If we are a lot we can divide again in battle/fighting mechanics and social/RP mechanics.
World design: design of world, races, classes, in general what is happening on the world. If there are a lot, then they can be divided again in general desing (political systems, enviroment, how this X element has shaped the world, etc etc) and more specific things (yes there is magic, so there are used by these persons, there are a lot of races, aliens, etc etc so you create those races, there are gods, who they are what do they want)

When we decide era/genre/style of the game from voting and form two teams we can start being more specific.

Note: when you make suggestions write also what is the general idea behind it. My example was that DnD is about adventurers exploring dungeons. That is the main idea and everything is based on that fact. The most important thing is that.

Thieves

2009-09-22, 04:45 AM

I'm lost now. Doesn't:

I suggest the opposite. No universal system. A system that works well in a specific world.
contradict
Aim high for something different. The era doesn't matter it we can use whatever era. The point is to choose something with flexibility that we can add all the interesting things we will think about. ?

And the 2nd paragraph was already mentioned somewhere, though I can't really remember where.

As for the setting, I'd gladly go with something along the lines of what Coplantor presents in his thread. My suggestions:
- Possibly early-to-mid 20th century, historically inaccurate. Better availability of technology to counter magic users, even more possibilities of mind-blowing inventions. Makes melee more redundant, but this is generally helped with faster-than-light ninjas and jedi-powered samurai, heh.
- Adventures in a rather bizarre vein, like: Certain-known-inventor reviving an electric army to pursue another-known-inventor who stole certain-known-invention from him, making most of the world go kinda nuts and perhaps into some conflict; or "You and your friends, while diving for Uncle Bob's rumoured hidden treasure, unlocked an evil temple and now, after hiding for 3 years, think you ought to actually bring the crap that's taken over half the country back into the Uncle Bob's swamp."
Also, I'd be very satisfied if we found some way to more commonly involve PCs into the adventure without "Hey guys, let's go kick some dungeon's rear entrance!", maybe more on a random basis.
- Generally would put bizarreness over the mundane, if just for the sake of it being funny or kung-fu-awesome.
- Game mechanics focus similar to D&D, shifted a deal away from magic (only sorcerer-like, but specialized, and not scientifically wizard-like) and into forms of combat, with slightly more details and definitely more options for non-magic users.
- Social & RP stuff is pretty much meh to me, but I'd refrain from codifying it too much (so that we don't end up with Book of Erotic Fantasy, fireball strike anyone who thought this one up!).
- I vote a no for psychic abilities. It's an unnecessary complication that could be made up for with magic. Anyone is free to prove me wrong and show me the application of psionics that makes sense.
- Seriously limit races. Am I the only one p****d off by Half-fiend Dragonborn Wolf-raised Illithid-infused Quarter-celestial Quarter-plant Strongheart Weakbottom Undead Halflings?

As for the mechanics, I will try working on them, and were thinking of d6-fueled dice-poker solutions (different from Deadlands, though they did have good ideas there for sure). Beating DCs = winning against the DM's roll, something like that, gotta work out the details.

And PLEASE, could we refrain from "too-long-didn't-read" AT LEAST in such a thread?

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 05:26 AM

Dragatus

2009-09-22, 06:23 AM

I prefer pre-gunpowder weaponry myself. I like the sound of Rome or the ancient era in general. But if the team decides to work on something with guns I'm fine with that. And I'm all for low magic.

I think it would be productive if we set up some sort of setting vote. Until so far we've had the following suggestions:
- gods among men (spaceship lands on lower tech world)
- everyone is a mage
- 1700 mythpunk
- fantasy wild west
- prehistoric era
- ancient era (Rome, Greece)
- "Aztecs"
- modern/future

Did I forget any?

Szatany

2009-09-22, 07:34 AM

Dragon Elite

2009-09-22, 08:12 AM

I guess I'm in Game Mechanics, but I will really just help where I have ideas.

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 10:10 AM

- gods among men (spaceship lands on lower tech world)
- everyone is a mage
- 1700 mythpunk
- fantasy wild west
- prehistoric era
- ancient era (Rome, Greece)
- "Aztecs"
- modern/future (1)
-medieval mad max/sci-fi background

My vote goes for modern/future

I want to clarify that what TheRedMage said about combining them is true. Everyone is a mage for example can be combined with any of the above.

But we need to start from somewhere in general. So lets just vote and we can clarify things afterwards. If anyother suggestions are allowed. Changing vote is allowed.

Coplantor

2009-09-22, 11:50 AM

You forgot to add post apocalyptic.

Regarding the prehistoric era, I think that there's a lot we can do with it, we seem to be forgetting that, on an uncivilized setting with low tech available, the weather becomes a fearsome enemy, and giving them personifications, like a god of the sandstorm, a witch of the mealstrom, the magical giant turtle of the volcanoes we can get some good stuff. Maybe the world is facing some sort of cataclysmic weather change due to rising conflicts between this forces of nature, heroes are dispatched to gain their powers/calm them, etc...

Prehistoric does not mean neesarily without cities, there could be egyptian, mesopotamian, aztec like city states every now and then, but most characters will have problems adapting to city life or, city dwellers characters to the wilderness. Remember, to keep it funny there must be some sort of conflict/contrast between two opposing forces that can be or not at ease with each other.

Szatany

2009-09-22, 01:01 PM

How about Magic: The gathering world?
It's pretty unique and vast and hasn't been done before.

Coplantor

2009-09-22, 01:08 PM

Vadin

2009-09-22, 03:40 PM

d20ize the magic: the gathering setting?

I would much prefer to come up with something oourselves, instead of adapting something that already exists.
A good way to do this is by taking a cliché and making an unexpected modification to it. Cowboys, for example, they've been given magic, taken to the outer space, a lot of things. But what about cowboys in the sky? That was unexpected, it is not an idea I'm giving, just an example, a stupid example though.

Not a stupid example at all! Cowboys riding joverbikes in a world above the world? Pretty cool mental image.

My vote is for Gods Among Men because it has a reason for the players to be better than the average person (why is the fighter in 3.5 better than the warrior?), it has the primitive world elements (no modern or near-modern technology in the general world), and it can have elements of so many other settings. Although Fantasy Wild West, 1700s Mythpunk, and Mad Max are all also very cool.

- I vote a no for psychic abilities. It's an unnecessary complication that could be made up for with magic. Anyone is free to prove me wrong and show me the application of psionics that makes sense.

Hey there! Here to prove you wrong: why would there be a difference? Why would psionics be an unnecessary complication? If we can make the assumption that magic can exist in a setting, can't we assume that psionic abilities exist too? Also, if we end up with a science fiction setting, magic doesn't make so much sense, but psychic abilities do- no need for any mechanical difference, but flavor-wise it might work better. I suppose what I'm saying is that just because you aren't a fan of how psionics works in D&D doesn't mean that psychic powers in this new setting should be immediately and irrationally ruled out.

Thieves

2009-09-22, 04:24 PM

@Waargh: I get it now. And nvm about that 2nd paragraph.

@Coplantor: It's not actually prehistoric if we mean city states now :smallwink: Ok, I better stop smart-assing... So, having given it a thought, I feel that making such a setting could lead to making one of the more mystic atmospheres, but the effort to actually come up with dozens of possible scenarios for such a setting... just the thought of it is enfeebling. We would need to get real serious on this stuff then. Which is ok with me, but may be a challenge unto what random group of people we are.

@Vadin: Perhaps you're right. I guess it's that D&D trauma with psionics being so... forced. I mean, a fantasy setting can do without them, but I totally agree that, while I like my sci-fi pure tech, I'd rather find it sprayed with psi rather than magics. It's just a thin line to walk not to make it like the first episode of Star Trek, where one guy, due to some time-space whatchamacallit, gains magic-like powers and shoots people with lightning out his fingers. It was done in the 70's, but nowadays, entertainment dresses new forms, and just doesn't work - for me.

The voting:
Let everyone choose all the options that are appealing / allowable for them, and especially more than just "Gods among men", that can be incorporated into most settings (especially B.C.) This way, we will make a quasi-tournament of options: and the one that wins the final "setting showdown" stays. I have several settings I'd like and wouldn't want to confine myself to one lucky wish.

My choices:
Ancient Greece / Rome mythology
Modern (20th / 21st) and future
(Medieval?) Mad max / sci-fi background
Prehistoric (tribal / early civilization)

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 05:08 PM

That is fine with me. So i ll give two votes:
1) Modern/future
2) Gods among men

So we have:
- gods among men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (2)
- everyone is a mage
- 1700 mythpunk
- fantasy wild west
- prehistoric era (1)
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (1)
- "Aztecs"
- modern/future (2)
-medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
-post apocalyptic

@Roman/Greek mythology: well I am greek, so you know, that is kind of "not again" for me

@magic: as a general note I would prefer magic to be less random. Like don't be able to throw a fireball, but maybe be able to manipulate fire. So if there is a fire a mage would be able to augment it and direct it. Same with other elements. Not waking the other day and be like "wow, I can now teleport up to 100ft" while the idea of teleportation would be ridiculous for him a day ago. A guy that finds that he has a natural talent on moving things, with telekinisis, and practicing to see his potential makes more sense. Anyway, just my thought.

TheRedMage

2009-09-22, 05:43 PM

You guys forgot my medieval/countryside fourth-spatial-dimension extravaganza. However, I vote for:

1) Anything with tapping into fourth spatial dimensions
2) Post Apocalyptic
3) Future
4) 1700 Mythpunk.

In that order of preference.

Kallisti

2009-09-22, 05:56 PM

Hmmm...I vote Ancient Era (Rome, Greece) with 1700's mythpunk a close second.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-22, 06:03 PM

I vote everyone is a mage, spatial tapping, and 17th century

Waargh!

2009-09-22, 06:39 PM

If I am getting this correct:

- gods among men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (2)
- everyone is a mage (1)
- 1700 mythpunk (3)
- fantasy wild west
- prehistoric era (1)
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (2)
- "Aztecs"
- modern/future (3)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- post apocalyptic (1)
- 4th spatial dimension (2)

Coplantor

2009-09-22, 09:51 PM

@Thieves: Prehistoric means before the invention of a writen language, so very primitive cities are still a possibility, they are very rare, most of the world is still uncivilized, that's why it has the prehistoric feeling.

My votes go for prehistoric, post apocalyptic, god among men and greece/rome.

Also, we can use this (http://www.penguinking.com/premise.php) as a guide line. Enjoy!

TheRedMage

2009-09-22, 10:36 PM

This would mean
- gods among men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (3)
- everyone is a mage (1)
- 1700 mythpunk (3)
- fantasy wild west
- prehistoric era (2)
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (3)
- "Aztecs"
- modern/future (3)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- post apocalyptic (2)
- 4th spatial dimension (2)

And no definitive thing is winning. Hm. I could take a public poll in various games, see what comes up there.

Devixer

2009-09-22, 11:33 PM

My votes go to modern, post apocalyptic, gods among men.

Squangos

2009-09-23, 01:08 AM

Let's try splitting it up a bit:

Exclusive Choices (Only one winner):
- prehistoric era (2)
- "Aztecs"
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (3)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- fantasy wild west
- 18th Century (1700's) Mythpunk (3) + 1
- modern/future (4)

Inclusive Choices (Any number of winners):
- everyone is a mage (1)
- post apocalyptic (3)
- Fourth Spatial Dimension (2) + 1
- Gods Among Men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (4)

I like the idea of transferring mechanical power through drive shafts at right angles to reality (assuming early Industrial Revolution).
__________________
I can see the appeal in the 'Gods Among Men' idea, but I'd honestly rather play a Man for the challenge.

Thieves

2009-09-23, 05:00 AM

And no definitive thing is winning. Hm. I could take a public poll in various games, see what comes up there.

What I basically said was that we wait - for example until Friday or Saturday, it's Wednesday now - till as many people as possible cast their vote. Then, if we have something like modern/future 5, 1700s Mythpunk 5 and Ancient Era 5, we will allow choice from these only. And those who chose other settings would still get a say.

Thanks to Squangos for making me realize that post-apocalyptic is a template rather than a setting actually. Ancient demigods wandering scorched-out Mediterranean? One of many options, but a Neat-neat one.

Update on my behalf:

Exclusive Choices (Only one winner, eventually):
- prehistoric era (2)
- "Aztecs"
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (3)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- fantasy wild west
- 18th Century (1700's) Mythpunk (4)
- modern/future (4)

Inclusive Choices (Any number of winners):
- everyone is a mage (1)
- post apocalyptic (3) +1/Thieves
- Fourth Spatial Dimension (3)
- Gods Among Men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (4)

Dragatus

2009-09-23, 05:24 AM

Exclusive Choices (Only one winner, eventually):
- prehistoric era (2) +1/Dragatus = (3)
- "Aztecs"
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (3) +1/Dragatus = (4)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- fantasy wild west
- 18th Century (1700's) Mythpunk (4)
- modern/future (4)

Inclusive Choices (Any number of winners):
- everyone is a mage (1)
- post apocalyptic (4) +1/Dragatus = (5)
- Fourth Spatial Dimension (3)
- Gods Among Men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (4)

Edit: I was thinking about how postapocalyptic would apply to prehistoric era and as my thoughts wandered it occured to me that Earth underwent several mass extinctions, the most famous being the death of the dinosaurs (and a whole lot of other critters) 65 million years ago. Then I remembered Science of Discworld. Basically, if during the last 1 million or so years before the dinosaurs extinction there evolved sapient dinosaurs with a full blown civilization, there would be no traces left of that civilization by now. The dinosaurs would probably be a sort of velociraptor. I guess we could call it "everyone is a dinosaur".

I'm not sure how good this idea is, though I am sure that it's silly. It's not really something I'd want to play personally and I know at least one TV show that was basically about dinosaurs + modern American civilization, but I have never heard of a game that does this and we are trying to make something new.

Also, the dinosaurs could have developed various stages of civilization so "everyone is a dinosaur" would be an inclusive choice. And I don't vote for it.

Waargh!

2009-09-23, 06:46 AM

Game Mechanics: Waargh!
World Design:

Fill this list also so we can get going.

I will be in the hospital for a few days. So at one point (Friday sounds good) stop the voting and lets declare the era of our game. Everybody choose one of the above to form two basic groups and lets start.

Note about voting: the details about the genre and stuff will be mostly implemented from the World Design team.

Note for teams: this gaves is required to be original. So aim for new stuff in general.

dentrag2

2009-09-23, 07:06 AM

I'd be willing to help, but keep in mind that i've only worked with D20 and Shadowrun.

My votes go for Post Apocalyptic, and Mythpunk. I personally think a fallout-style tabletop RPG would be fun.

Szatany

2009-09-23, 07:36 AM

Definitely post-apocalyptic as far as those inclusive choices go.
Not sure about the first part, so I will refrain from voting for now.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-23, 09:35 AM

I am Game mechanics, but I will help with both.

Coplantor

2009-09-23, 10:29 AM

I'll be over the fluff section, but I can give a hand with the mechanics

Vadin

2009-09-23, 11:21 AM

I'm in for world construction and fluff, editing things for grammar, spelling, and ease of reading, and mechanics.

Kallisti

2009-09-23, 03:48 PM

I'm in for world construction and fluff, editing things for grammar, spelling, and ease of reading, and mechanics.

Same here, pretty much. I do some writing, so adventure hooks, fluff, editing...

Thieves

2009-09-23, 04:03 PM

Game Mechanics : Waargh!, Dragon Elite, Thieves, Vadin, Dark Apprentice, +Coplantor, +TheRedMage
World Design: Coplantor, Vadin, Kallisti, TheRedMage, Dark Apprentice, dentrag2 +Dragon Elite, +Thieves (after mech is done)
(full and "+", partial participation in field)
unspecified: Szatany, Dragatus, Squangos, and, inactive as of this thread: Froogleyboy, gothicbob, dwennon

Sorry if didn't count someone in.

Exclusive Choices (Only one winner, eventually):
- prehistoric era (3)
- "Aztecs"
- ancient era (Rome, Greece) (4)
- medieval mad max/sci-fi background (1)
- fantasy wild west
- 18th Century (1700's) Mythpunk (5)
- modern/future (4)

Inclusive Choices (Any number of winners):
- everyone is a mage (1)
- post apocalyptic (7)
- Fourth Spatial Dimension (3)
- Gods Among Men (spaceship lands on lower tech world) (4)

God, I really hope you people have some decent knowledge of the 1700's, because we may end up with something awkward if we don't. Also, could someone expand the idea of 1700s mythpunk to me as they see it? It's getting speed and maybe we don't know what it is supposed to mean (at least I don't, not entirely).

Vadin

2009-09-23, 05:59 PM

Game Mechanics : Waargh!, Dragon Elite, Thieves, Vadin, +Coplantor
World Design: Coplantor, Vadin, Kallisti, +Dragon Elite, +Thieves (after mech is done)
(full and "+", partial participation in field)
unspecified: Szatany, dentrag2, Dragatus, Squangos, Dark Apprentice, TheRedMage, and, inactive as of this thread: Froogleyboy, gothicbob, dwennon

Go ahead and throw a + up next to my name on World Design. Setting design is at least 90% of what I do here on GiantITP, and something I'm quite fond of and devote a lot of time to.

God, I really hope you people have some decent knowledge of the 1700's, because we may end up with something awkward if we don't. Also, could someone expand the idea of 1700s mythpunk to me as they see it? It's getting speed and maybe we don't know what it is supposed to mean (at least I don't, not entirely).

Yeah...when I first mentioned it, I was thinking of things like gentlmen adventurers exploring South America and battling Amazons and finding Aztec cities of gold, digging through Egyptian pyramids and dealing with the legions of monsters therein and the portal to the Afterlife they go through/open and the otherworldly armies they must defeat, and beating down the Indian gods who keep trying to stir up trouble and sink fleets and poison important dignitaries and cause natural disasters and such. Basically anything over the top (there are plenty of such over the top things like this on each and every continent in the time period). Things on the scale of Exalted, but with a distinctly British colonial feel to them.

TheRedMage

2009-09-23, 06:18 PM

I'll do World Design and Game Mechanics, mostly world design though, but after a bit, more Game Mechanics.

Thieves

2009-09-23, 06:40 PM

Sorry, my comprehension fails me, "I devote so much time to it" -> so I won't be able to do it full-scale here, or "I devote so much time to it" -> it's my trade and I want to have as much input here? I meant that people with + are additionals, part-timers in the field.

As for the setting... <doubts cut out> The stuff you describe here is straight-up 19th c. <personal preferences rant cut out> <babbling cut out> So yeah, nevermind. Just wanted to say that some of that perhaps got mixed up. Given 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, I'd say that 18th is perhaps the least interesting. Anyone got sample adventures for 18th century?

*These days are hard on me so please excuse Decipher Script penalties*

Coplantor

2009-09-23, 09:27 PM

Yeah...when I first mentioned it, I was thinking of things like gentlmen adventurers exploring South America and battling Amazons and finding Aztec cities of gold, digging through Egyptian pyramids and dealing with the legions of monsters therein and the portal to the Afterlife they go through/open and the otherworldly armies they must defeat, and beating down the Indian gods who keep trying to stir up trouble and sink fleets and poison important dignitaries and cause natural disasters and such. Basically anything over the top (there are plenty of such over the top things like this on each and every continent in the time period). Things on the scale of Exalted, but with a distinctly British colonial feel to them.

This sounds more 1800 to me.
EDIT: Like 1850+, I would like to avoid victorian, that's why 1700 felt good.

dentrag2

2009-09-23, 09:43 PM

I can build monsters, when we get the statistics system up:smallwink:

Devixer

2009-09-23, 09:46 PM

I can do world design and mechanics.

While I'm still gunning for modern, I believe that of the 17th, 18, and 19th centuries, the 18th has the most promise. The 1600s are fairly uninteresting, and I'm certain the 1800's have been done before.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-23, 10:14 PM

I can build monsters, when we get the statistics system up:smallwink:

Me too :smallwink:

Squangos

2009-09-23, 11:41 PM

Interesting Eighteenth Century Stuff

1700: Bridge of the Gods forms across the Columbia River.
1719: Robinson Crusoe written by Daniel Defoe.
1726: Gulliver's Travels written by Jonathan Swift.
1730–1760: First Great Awakening takes place in Great Britain and North America.
1750: Peak of the Little Ice Age.
1755–1763: The Great Upheaval.
1771: The Plague Riot in Moscow.
1776: Illuminati founded by Adam Weishaupt.
1795: Kamehameha I of the Island of Hawaii defeats the Oahuans at the Battle of Nu'uanu.
1799: Rosetta stone discovered by Napoleon's troops.

Thieves

2009-09-24, 04:45 AM

The 1600s are fairly uninteresting, and I'm certain the 1800's have been done before.

1800s have been done, and doing them without the victorian-era feel, which I too would like to avoid, would make them... well, not-so-1800s. It's like making 20th century without WWII.

For me, 18th century looks kinda pale in terms of adventuring compared to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_century). Havoc, war, famine & Cardinal Richelieu. It was a dark age for Europe, and daring adventures are best set in such times, I guess.

Anyway, go on and vote, people! As Waargh said, we're likely to be finishing voting (or its first part) on Friday. Would 48 hours be okay with you? It's around midday at my place here now, so I would log in on Saturday around the same time, in 48 hours, and sweep up the results. How does that sound?

dentrag2

2009-09-24, 07:02 AM

Right now we seem to be looking at a post-apocalyptic 1700's.... Where everyone is a god. This oughta be interesting.

Dragatus

2009-09-24, 09:46 AM

Sign me up for game mechanics.

Right now we seem to be looking at a post-apocalyptic 1700's....

Interesting Eighteenth Century Stuff

1750: Peak of the Little Ice Age.

Maybe the Little Ice Age in our setting could be ... a bit less little.:smallamused:

Also, 1700s had the French revolution and the founding of the USA, though that was both towards the end of the century. 1700 is also roughly the enlighment age when natural sciences evolved and men thought that rational thinking would solve all problems. A line of thought that eventually lead to the industrial revolution.

Szatany

2009-09-24, 10:28 AM

Sign me for "18th Century (1700's)". Verneworld could be interesting.

dentrag2

2009-09-24, 05:31 PM

Sign me up for game mechanics.

Maybe the Little Ice Age in our setting could be ... a bit less little.:smallamused:

Also, 1700s had the French revolution and the founding of the USA, though that was both towards the end of the century. 1700 is also roughly the enlighment age when natural sciences evolved and men thought that rational thinking would solve all problems. A line of thought that eventually lead to the industrial revolution.
Muahhahahah....

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 06:29 PM

Agreed. I like Ice ages.

Vadin

2009-09-24, 06:47 PM

Hyperpowered gentlemen adventurers exploring the world as several empires try and maintain increasingly tenuous holds on distant colonies that have been beset upon by an unholy ice age, ancient attackers lurking just beyond the veil, and the resurgent wave of dark myth working to bring about once more an age of ignorance, fear, and isolation.

Huzzah!

Coplantor

2009-09-24, 07:03 PM

Oh my god I think I know what our setting will be...

Remember what was the illustrattion catchphrase? Freedom of man through reason? Knowledge will set you free? Well, it did! Some of the smartest people developed psychic powers! Incredible powers indeed! But one of this god like humans went out of control, his powers were too strong, way to strong. Every time he used one of his powers, the energy release was so big that it was enough to make an entire city gone in a couple of seconds.

He was a threat, and of course, something was to be done. A confrontation started, massive armies, leaded by the god men chased after him, following the trace of destruction he leaved, at some point, he wasn't able to run anymore, and a fight that was about to change the world itself started.
The energy released during that fight was so strong that the effect of it was similar to the impact of the meoteorite that extinguished the dinosaurs.

Not only did life on the surface of the world started to wither, but the world itself becamed a stranger place. Animals, plants and even landscapes becamed infused with the Supreme's energy.

Now, the kingdoms of the past are rising again, trying to adapt to a world much more hostile than any man has ever seen. Everything outside the safe perimeters of the guarded cities is your enemy, as new strange and powerful animals roam the earth, entire forests of man eating plants grow from the energy infused soil, and the weather itself seems out to kill you.

Take the role of a mighty lord, a powerfull psychic or a mysterious "changed one" as you fight to rebuild and survive in a world of wonder, danger and mystery.

Illumination
Knowledge will set you free.

Froogleyboy

2009-09-24, 07:05 PM

Is there anything I could help with?

Kallisti

2009-09-24, 07:06 PM

I'm not too sure I like where this is going. I'd like to keep ti somewhat simple. One inclusive option and one setting option, at most.

Coplantor

2009-09-24, 07:08 PM

Is there anything I could help with?

Yes! Go bring me a coffee! And a real one, not that decaffeinated crap!

OK, that was ajoke and a pretty bad one. We are still brain storming here, you can share any idea you might have, try to keep it awesome. Then you must choose a side, will you help with mechanics or with the fluff of the game? That choice my friend, is your, and only yours to make.

Anyway, welcome aboard!:smallbiggrin:

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 07:09 PM

Froogleyboy

2009-09-24, 07:09 PM

I'll take mechanics with a side of fluff
EDIT: so what do we have so far

Coplantor

2009-09-24, 07:13 PM

The land outside the city was caked with blood. Almost so much that you could hardly see the ice below. A dying man walked towards the city. When he reached the gates, he was bombarded with arrows. Outside, a scream echoed through the mountain pass and through the city. The lights went out. They knew another god-man was loose...

Like it?

Yes, yes... Now change arrows with pellets or whatever the heck thier muskets shoot during the 1700's and it'll be better, or just say lead.
You know what I was thinking? Maybe the four spatial power could be included inside the god among men or psychic power or whatever we call the source of power here.

EDIT: @^Well, you can check the votes, wich tell us that we will have some sort of post apocalyptic 1700's era with living gods roaming the world.

In my previous post there is an idea for the setting using those premises inside the spoiler tags.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 07:15 PM

Fixed.

@ Coplantor
I like it!

Coplantor

2009-09-24, 07:19 PM

Fixed.

@ Coplantor
I like it!

Awesome! Thanks!
For some reason, I was trying to see what could come out of those things toghether and they reminded me of Akira (Awesome movie, watch it if you haven't, even if you dont like anime). So, I took a little fluff from there, added some other things from a setting I once made and voilá!
Now, I really believe that adding the four spatial power into that mix would improve is substancially!

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 07:28 PM

I don't know what the four spatial powers are.

Coplantor

2009-09-24, 07:38 PM

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6974233&postcount=18) be it!
The four spatial stuff is explained on the second half of the post. Kind of a big text wall but, it's intresting.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 07:47 PM

Oh...

Sorry, I misread you.

TheRedMage

2009-09-24, 08:51 PM

I really like the idea, and I'm feeling the love for the fourth spatial dimension tapping.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 08:53 PM

I agree. I would like to vote for 4th dimension too.

Devixer

2009-09-24, 09:04 PM

I also agree. With what we're going with so far, and the idea of a fourth spacial dimension.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 09:24 PM

Also, the dimension tapping might let you dodge bullets?

Devixer

2009-09-24, 09:28 PM

Interesting thought, but it shouldn't have a great chance of success. Otherwise, it'd be a gamebreaker.

Dragon Elite

2009-09-24, 09:33 PM

Agreed. Thanks to Waargh! for getting us started.

dentrag2

2009-09-25, 07:05 AM

So... Now it's a post-apocalyptic 1700's where everyone is a god with fourth spatial dimension powers.

This might get a little weird....

Dragon Elite

2009-09-25, 08:01 AM

So...

Should we vote for which type of apocalypse?
I would prefer undead, because I have some scary ideas like a creture with a zombie head, and 4 arm segments the is on fire. And more of these thing are floating around in my brain...

Dragon Elite

2009-09-25, 09:31 AM

http://static.desktopnexus.com/wallpapers/119268-bigthumbnail.jpg
http://static.desktopnexus.com/wallpapers/40945-bigthumbnail.jpg
http://th02.deviantart.net/fs44/300W/f/2009/118/5/d/Zombie_Dragon_by_ANARKYMAN.jpg

Here are some evil undead!

Devixer

2009-09-25, 10:24 AM

An undead apocalypse seems a little... cliche.

Maybe the undead could play a part in this sort of end, instead of being in the center of it?

Thieves

2009-09-25, 10:53 AM

Dragon Elite, you have already voted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6980164&postcount=51) for 4th dimension.

Do not get so hasty, gentlemen, we have to keep some procedure here. While yes, "18th century mythpunk" has won, we are not entirely done with the inclusive choices.

- Edit: I suggest we start a discussion on the inclusive choices rather than simply vote; just like in politics, different people who want different things sometimes use very similar terms, so they win elections, but then aren't able to reach agreement because of some crucial details no one mentioned. My initiative in the next post.

Game Mechanics : Waargh!, Dragon Elite, Thieves, Vadin, Dark Apprentice, Dragatus, Froogleyboy +Coplantor, +TheRedMage
World Design: Coplantor, Vadin, Kallisti, TheRedMage, Dark Apprentice, dentrag2 +Dragon Elite, +Froogleyboy, +Thieves
(full and "+", partial participation in field)
unspecified: Szatany, Squangos

Dragatus

2009-09-25, 11:04 AM

I'm fairly neutral on both 4th spatial dimension and gods among men, though if we do include them I'd like 4th dimension to be a subtype of gods.

Also, when I hear "1700s mythpunk" I think of this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119544

Vadin

2009-09-25, 12:52 PM

"Fourth spatial dimension":
For: Dragon Elite, Dark Apprentice, TheRedMage
Against: Thieves
Neutral:

"Gods among men"
For:
Against: Thieves
Neutral:

Ok, two things: "Fourth spatial dimension" just means that there are people that can move a little too fast, not unlike in DBZ. Or they can phase through walls temporarily. It wouldn't be the main focus of a setting, but rather one small aspect of it that characters and antagonists can utilize.

"Gods among Men" can be reworked into any justifiable reason for the heroes, the player characters, to be above and beyond what a normal person in the setting can do. It does not actually require spaceships or crashlandings or cybernetics or psychic powers or anything.

Also, I am for both of them. Moving so fast as to phase through things is pretty cool, and settings can often get odd when there isn't a reason for the adventurers to be better than other people.

Thieves

2009-09-25, 03:24 PM

Some suggestions, chaotic but on-topic. I also edited the voting post, so that we have a discussion rather than voting - too much info gets lost over lack of communication.

"Fourth spatial dimension" (FSD for short) would be much more appropriate as a class ability, mastered after years of either martial or arcane studies, high-level only; not something inherent in the system. The reason I am against it is mainly that, as a player, I'd hate to have something arbitrarily posed unto me - especially if it's a thing of fantasy and quite excessive esoterics. If every character I made had to have his FSD abilities written into the character sheet like, say, feats in D&D, I'd be very very unhappy. D&D, for instance, can run without implementing psionics, and that's good. But try taking out the high magic density and make a mundane-combat low-magic campaign - you're gonna spend a lot of time adjusting stats, and that's what seriously annoys me.

My suggestion is to err on the side of the mundane in the basic, prototype setting. We know that on the whole some people will have the ability to go through walls sometimes and we know that the PCs will have their stats in the 16's rather than 10's, D&Dically speaking. What I want to avoid is every 5th level rogue going through a bank's walls and fighting his winged arch-nemesis atop a volcano while doing matrix-style acrobatics and every adventurer being a child of destiny or a chosen one. Players like variety and possibilities - and hate being forced to do anything, especially when it comes to character creation. This is why I feel ingerence in this field should be trimmed down to the minimum.

For me, the power level of a PC in an "enlightment-age postapocalyptic mythpunk adventure" should not go to demigod level; this is acceptable in high fantasy and sci-fi. A high-level hero of such an age is, for me, someone who becomes a general who manages to get to a town five miles away by foot despite being shot several times and stabbed in the leg; a warrior able to defeat ~12 melee henchmen if surrounded or 30 if they're coming in twos or threes (sustaining about 60 - 70% vitality damage); an intellectual whose abilities from the verge of psychology, rhetoric and psionics (got convinced; it's enlighment age after all) make a hardened criminal reveal all the information and beg for the man just to go away and stop talking to him; or an acrobatic character who, encircled by a pack of giant wolves and armed only with a knife, manages to make her way out, killing two and injuring another five on the way. Not nuclear-explosion scale stuff. Just pretty extraordinary stuff.

Coplantor, I know it was done as a sketch-up only, but even just this genre of things has been done hundreds of times... and suits anime or video games much more than RPGs.

The intro Dragon Elite wrote works much better for me, and I think that we could get a decent number of BBEGs by using the "gods among men" scheme for NPCs rather than PCs. They could have a number of odd abilities, of divine or devilish nature. Not nuclear either, but much more "half the district dead overnight" than the PCs would see. It's a given - if the PCs are powerful, the BBEG's 150% of that. And at some point it gets us atomic action.

Well, my arguments printed, awaiting your view on the problem. (If you don't care about how escalated these two get then just skip.)

On my and my only behalf, I call upon you, fellow designers of this Yet-To-Be-Named-But-First-Things-First game, to start sharing what base ideas you might have about the mechanics or the setting. Let lack of activity in either of these fields not discourage you, as we may, if worst comes to worst, very well end up with a new generic system or a cool setting.

As Waargh said: this game is supposed to be awesome. We are the ones responsible for that.

As a general guide, the list:
Game Mechanics: Waargh!, Dragon Elite, Thieves, Vadin, Dark Apprentice, Dragatus, Froogleyboy +Coplantor, +TheRedMage
World Design: Coplantor, Vadin, Kallisti, TheRedMage, Dark Apprentice, dentrag2 +Dragon Elite, +Froogleyboy, +Thieves
(full and "+", partial participation in field)
unspecified: Szatany, Squangos

Dragon Elite

2009-09-25, 06:02 PM

Thank you *bows*

And I agree fully. I know how much I like differences between characters I make. I think that as soon as Szatany and Squangos decide, Warrgh! should make two more posts, one for World design and one for Game mechanics.

Devixer

2009-09-25, 06:30 PM

Squangos

2009-09-25, 09:47 PM

I'd be happiest doing Game Mechanics with a side of World Design, if it gets things moving.
__________________
FSD-wise, I'd have it be more high society than high-level; they'd be able to afford the necessary level of education and equipment, after all (I'd allow low-level FSD manipulation, but it would take a lot of on-site measurements and further calculations).

Speaking of higher dimensions, this (http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/flatland/) might help you visualise what can happen when they come into play.

Vadin

2009-09-26, 12:55 AM

Thieves, I agree with you fully and I think that you might be confusing some of us saying 'it would be cool if this could happen' with 'every character will have to do this'.

Also, power-level: My vote is for characters to be above and beyond the commoners. By a lot. Enough to be highly cinematic and awesome. Grim and gritty is all good and well, but PC vs. a police officer should be a clear PC win. PC vs. a swat team should be harder, though, that much is agreed.

And the enemy agents powerful enough to be serious threats should be quite strong enough to merit being BBEGs. Too often in D&D the villains are incredibly underwhelming.

I'm not understanding the '+' distinction in your list there, Thieves. How are '+' people different?

Waargh!

2009-09-26, 02:11 AM

I also agree with Thieves. I like the idea of an FSD, but it really shouldn't be standard.

Also, I am currently working on a forum for this game. I'll post a link when it's finished.

EDIT: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Roleplay_Creations/index/. It's not finished, but you all can join and start posting.

I already posted on the forum. Thanx Dark Apprentice.

Guys, don't get too much into details at this point.

I think we all agree on: fantasy setting around 1700. Characters will have special abilities. That is enough for now. Let the World Design team proceed from there and the Game mechanics do its job.

We know the year, so we know the weapons, the technology etc etc to start the game mechanics. The World Design group also has its information so it can also start designing how the world is.

Being in the Game Mechanics group I have enough information to start. So let each team start its job?

Thieves

2009-09-26, 07:37 AM

@Vadin: There's always some inherent confusion in communication, that's why I always try to clear things up as much as possible. Lurking on the internet for a few years now I came to expect the worst level of mental ability from people, hence my attitude. Luckily, I will most probably be able to lower my guard a bit working with people from GITP ;]

And the pluses... well, I meant the people who declared part-time participation in a given team. It's much more of an orientational thing, really, cause no one minds anyone else statting two cool monsters while being in Game Mechanics... so yeah, pretty much? They're kinda useless :smallredface:

Dragon Elite

2009-09-26, 10:07 AM

I am now on the other forum.

Vadin

2009-09-26, 01:57 PM

I think we all agree on: fantasy setting around 1700. Characters will have special abilities. That is enough for now. Let the World Design team proceed from there and the Game mechanics do its job.

We know the year, so we know the weapons, the technology etc etc to start the game mechanics. The World Design group also has its information so it can also start designing how the world is.

Huzzah! And now, hopefully, we will finally have a game where I can run a Journey to the Center of the Earth campaign that is followed by Journey to the Center of Mars (the heroes, of course, sailed on their ships of the air through the luminiferous aether that surrounds the heavenly spheres).

Major sources of inspiration for this sort of game: Jules Verne, Venture Brothers (because of the half-mad science and examples of non-combat oriented yet over-the-top adventures), Girl Genius, D1's Mythpunk, Dresden Codak

Thieves

2009-09-26, 02:27 PM

Hahaha, were thinking Dresden Codak and Girl Genius as well, though I yet have to get a good read into the latter. And I don't know why, every time I think "1700's mythpunk" I see Tesla there somewhere. Precisely, Commodore Norrington from Pirates of the Carribean battling Nikola Tesla on the slopes of a volcano :smalleek:

dentrag2

2009-09-26, 05:32 PM

Waargh, i believe there were quite a few votes for Post Apocalyptic too. What about that?

Waargh!

2009-09-26, 07:58 PM

It can be Post Apocalyptic. This is more the World Design group to decide. Start registering on http://s1.zetaboards.com/Roleplay_Creations/index/

Vadin

2009-09-27, 02:48 PM

Hey! So I was looking at this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Christian_Alpine_traditions#Krampus), and I had an idea about the post-apoclyptic part of the setting: what if all the old myths have come back? Not the old gods, thoughs.

In Scandinavia, ice giants walk the land, trolls lie in wait under bridges, and elves live in the hills looking beautiful and being incredibly powerful and arrogant.

In the British Isles, fae steal children and set fire to homes and generally wreak havoc on anyone who isn't in a city. In the cities, though, there is a serious werewolf problem and mass murderers who can leap over tall buildings in a single bound aren't as rare as they used to be.

Greece, the land of some of Europe's oldest myth, is actually largely safe. Ancestor spirits once again guard the youth, centaurs patrol the hills, and the monsters are largely nonmobile. Of course, if you happen to come across a cyclops, you're all but done for, and sea travel in the Mediterranean is more dangerous than ever.

Italy likewise hasn't been as adversely affected as other places. Spirits of the home keep every house that shows the proper honor in good condition and free of disease. Ghosts have become a serious problem, but the right combination of herbs and ritual can remove their otherworldly chill. As in London, werewolves run rampant, though there is a difference here- the man-wolves of Italy hunt in packs and fully assume the shape of the wolf. They even call down their permanently lupine brethren and go on mass hunts down the millenia old highways of ancient Rome.

Oh, and of course...dragons. :smallamused:

And so on and so forth to the point where society outside of the highly regulated urban areas has all but broken down, leaving bastions of civilization nearly stranded in a sea of dark and dangerous legend.

This gives the adventurers more of a reason to go out and adventure.

On the European continent, they might be freeing a local village from an ice giant's frozen grasp.
In India, the adventurers might be battling down a resurgent demigod who is rooting out the New Religion with dark cults who grow daily with her power.
In South America, brave explorers fight their way through the Amazon jungles and fight down the jaguar-armies of the mighty Aztecs and the stone demons of the glorious Incas.
In North America, strange and wild myths of great beasts hunt the eastern seaboard colonies, and dark shamans hungry for power sell themselves to corrupt spirits and terrorize other tribes in mad bids for power- all things that, of course, the adventurers might want to try and stop.
In China, great dragons and demons and waves of reanimated warriors led by the zombie general Sun-Tzu and reborn kingdoms once more with the mandate of a dark and terrible heaven (and various and sundry other dangers) threaten an already tightly wound society. Plenty of room for adventuring there.
In Africa, men who wear the bodies of animals beyond the simple wolf lead great legions of undead. Witches fly through the skies and curse whole villages (if they don't slaughter them outright with their hordes of hyena minions). Dire lions stalk the plains and African Tigers haunt the jungles. Mokele-mbembe, the great and terrible lizards of the N'iger River that are only slightly larger than the largest elephant, thunder out of the trees and leave their mark on any who upset their mighty slumber.

Wouldn't that be so cool? Also, 1700's mythpocolypse where paragons of archetypes and/or rationalism fight to save the world is definitely something I haven't seen before.

On the train of thought of paragons of archetypes/rationalism, those would be, of course, the heroes, the brave adventurers. These are people who embody an archetypal resurgent myth of great power (Hercules, Moses, King Arthur, Merlin, Aeneas, Loki, Thor, St. Patrick, Ozymandias, Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Achilles, Archimedes, Deadalus, Alexander, and other people who were unreal or real but larger than life and have supernatural things attributed to them), are pinnacles of rationality and practicality (Darwin, Galileo, Bacon, Napoleon, Watt, Jenner, Rousseau, Voltaire, Adam Smith, Malthus, Hooke, Franklin, Kant, Jefferson), or are craftsmen of supernatural beauty (Byron, Shelley, Key, Coleridge, Bach, Mozart, Wordsworth, Kobayashi, Blake, Handel, Beethoven, Campbell, Goethe, Keats).

Heroes of Power, Rationality, and Beauty- each is capable of driving back or suppressing myth, though they do so in different ways. Hercules strikes down the lion, Jenner cures the unholy blight, and Mozart beguiles the oncoming harpies.

Myth
Archetype- Recognition of and adherence to an archetype fuels their abilities. The mighty warrior is mighty, the wise sage is wise. The more an archetypal adventurer excells in his role, the greater he is able to succeed in it in the future.
Examples (http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~iborchar/Arcane/heroes.html): The Trickster, The Seeker, The Beast, The Magician, The Fool
In Combat: Archetypes, by their very nature, are glory hogs and as such are almost always on the front lines dealing damage and distracting foes / They incapacitate enemies with raw force and go to great extents to draw the enemies focus onto themselves
Legend- These people gain powers by stirring up memories of great historical figures. By devoting themselves wholly over to recreating that person, they are eventually able to transcend the original mold and become more than the original was in fact or fiction.
Examples: The Devoted Saint, The Legendary General, The Great Inventor
In Combat: Legends are rarely on the front line, preferring instead to support their allies with calls to action and wonderful miracles just in the nick of time / They focus primarily on buffing their allies in areas where their allies are weakest and debuff their foes so as to open up new areas of vulnerability

Rationality
Naturalist- They put their faith in science and work wonders using galvanic force, magnetism, the vital essence of living things, and sheer unadulterated knowledge of how the natural world ought to function.
Examples: The Natural Philosopher, The Galvanic Manipulator, The Difference Engineer
In Combat: Naturalists are called to action, and they use mad devices and theories of nature directly on foes and the environment / They deal damage to foes and change the environment around them
Philospher- Philosophers perform great miracles by proving that the human spirit is capable of more than it believes, that nothing is absolute, and that the power of the mind can conquer all. Contradictions and exceptions to universal rules power a philosopher's abilities.
Examples: The Nihilist, The Postivist, The Pragmatist, The Existentialist
In Combat: Philosophers stop enemies from acting and buff allies / They make opponents' problems worse and allies' strengths greater

Art
Virtuoso- These musicians experiment with harmonies, melodies, structure, and outrageously perfect instruments that transcend the natural world and delve into the divine music of the heavenly spheres.
Examples: The Violist That Makes The Heavens Weep, The Baritone That Makes Devils Fear, The Floutist That Brings Joy In Tragedy
In Combat: Virtuosos distract enemies and buff their allies / They play music and create supernatural effects on things around them
Wordsmith- Philosophers know that words carry power, but they stand in awe of the wordsmith's abilities. Their silvered tongues and mercurial pens have been known to persuade reality itself to adapt to their whims.
Examples: The Poet That Distracts The Muses, The Sophist Whose Rhetoric Cuts The Soul, The Essayist Who Peruades The Angel To Sin
In Combat: Wordsmiths debuff or outright alter foes / They rewrite situations into more favorable conditions

Obviously, one assumption here is that heroes will be doing things that are clearly supernatural, or at least hypernatural. The above distinctions are also just some rough ideas about how characters might differentiate themselves and, obviously, there is quite a bit of overlap that ideally might want to be worked out.

There is still plenty of room for editing, cutting things out, adding things in, changing of details, expanding upon the world, defining better what the world is, and so on and so forth if we decide to use this as a premise. I emphasize that nothing is set in stone, I'm not saying "Take it or leave, my way or the highway", I just think that these things are pretty cool and are a good jumping off point for how things could end up. It utilizes 1700s mythpunk, post-apocolyptic elements, heroes that are clearly superior to commoners, and it leaves a lot of room open for many different kinds of adventures and adventurers.

Actually, looking at this a little while later, I'm thinking that heroes that utilize art might be a bit much, or they might be able to be folded into Archetypal heroes or Philosophers (the divine symphony of nature and music soothes the savage sould and all that).

(This is what happens when I try and avoid studying...I end up mixing the subject material with elements of Exalted and some other things and turn it into things like this...)

Szatany

2009-09-28, 05:21 AM

As a general guide, the list:
Game Mechanics: Waargh!, Dragon Elite, Thieves, Vadin, Dark Apprentice, Dragatus, Froogleyboy +Coplantor, +TheRedMage
World Design: Coplantor, Vadin, Kallisti, TheRedMage, Dark Apprentice, dentrag2 +Dragon Elite, +Froogleyboy, +Thieves
(full and "+", partial participation in field)
unspecified: Szatany, Squangos
I'm interested in the game's ruleset mostly.

Waargh!

2009-09-28, 06:40 AM

@Vadin: Why don't you post some of your cool ideas in other forum :)

@Szatany: You too, come along in the other forum

Vadin

2009-09-28, 07:45 AM

It just seems like there isn't really a need for the other forum, given that here we have a perfectly good forum that we're all already used to using. If there was some pressing need for secrecy I might see justification for using a whole new forum, but...well, there isn't. In fact, I'd like to share what we're making with the rest of the posters here as it develops- it's no fun to make something and keep it all to ourselves.

Plus, if someone else sees something here that inspires them, I'd like for them to be able to share it with us.

Waargh!

2009-09-28, 11:43 AM

Vadin

2009-09-28, 12:18 PM

Well, its not that the other forum is secret. It is more that we can make seperate topics and discuss separet things. It offers organisation. If we stay here we will have 20 topics among thousands and it will be difficult to manage. And we will be kind of overpolluting this forum. We can still use 3-4 threads in this forum, like the update one

A Setting thread and a Mechanics thread should really be enough.

For setting, we have an initial premise down that needs to be filled in more. World details need to be finished, different areas need to be further defined, etc., etc.

For mechanics, the scope of characters' abilities as compared to a normal person (over and above by far) has been established. Now combat resolution mechanics, social interaction resolution mechanics (if we want those), and other aspects of number crunching are required.

Waargh!

2009-09-28, 01:24 PM

So "combat resolution mechanics" and "social interaction resolution mechanics" should be for example in the same thread? That won't be nice. We would need to have sub threads. Some forums offer them, but this doesn't.
Also, why look through all the thread titles to find the ones we use for our game, or bookmark a lot of threads if we can have or own forum?
There are a lot of areas in a game, it will be tiresome to have everything in a couple of threads when you could have a far better organisation.

Whenever we make a decision we can post that nicely on the "updates thread". So other people can share their points of views as well

Vadin

2009-09-28, 01:53 PM