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Typewriter
2009-09-22, 11:25 AM
I know I've seen at least a few threads from people who are asking what the main differences are between 3.5 and Pathfinder. Nearly every time I see one of those threads I wind up finding out something about Pathfinder that I didn't realized had changed, and had been applying 3.5 rules as if they hadn't changed.

I'm going to attempt to use this thread to make a list of all the deviations from 3.5 that Pathfinder made. Because the goal is to make this topic mostly informational I am not going to state any opinions in the first five posts, stating the changes just as they are, without bias(hopefully :smallsmile:)

I'm only using the PRD/SRD for this so as to avoid any copyright issues, and every section will have a link at the bottom to the 3.5 SRD and the Pathfinder PRD.

If you have any observations you'd like to make, or perhaps ideas on how I could rephrase things better I would appreciate it. I would also appreciate any help listing all the feats that have gone missing from 3.5 as well as all the new feats originating from Pathfinder. Overall - if you have any ideas please let me know.

Stats:

PF recommends some different ways to roll stats, but seeing as how everyone chooses their own way to roll, it's not worth mentioning (though a link will be included in this post to the section that would cover that).

Point buy has changed beginning with the system recommending an overall smaller amount of points to spend, with the overall costs potentially going up.
{table=head] Stat | 3.5 Point Cost | PF Point Cost
8 | 0 | -2
9 | 1 | -1
10 | 2 | 0
11 | 3 | 1
12 | 4 | 2
13 | 5 | 3
14 | 6 | 5
15 | 8 | 7
16 | 10 | 10
17 | 13 | 13
18 | 16 | 17
[/table]

Pathfinder Basics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html)
3.5 Basics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm)


Races:

Favored Classes:
The favored class mechanic has changed, doing away with experience penalty. Now every race has one favored class(two if they're a half-elf) that they get to designate as their favored class. Any time the player takes a level in the favored class they gain 1 more skill piont than normal, or 1 more HP than normal. Prestige classes cannot be designated as favored, and the choice cannot be changed later.

Dwarves
Dwaves have gained +2 WIS in addition to the stat modifiers they had in 3.5
Dwarves stability is now a +4 to their CMD while being bullrushed or tripped(this change was made to work with CMD/CMB, and isn't really a change to dwarves so much as a change to the mechanic).
Rather than just dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgoshes being treated as martial as in 3.5, PF dwarves consider all weapons with the word 'dwarven' in it's name to be martial, and in addition they are automatically proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers
Dwarves no longer get any bonuses to crafting.

Elves
Elves have gained +2 INT in addition to the stat modifiers they had in 3.5
Elves bonuses to search, listen, and spot has been transferred to a bonus to perception(which includes those 3 skills)
PF Elves gain a +2 bonus to Caster Level to overcome spell resistance
PF Elves gain a +2 bonus to spellcraft checks made to identify magic items
In addition to gaining proficiency with longbows, composite longbows, shortbows, composite shortbows, longsword, and rapier, PF elves are also treat all weapons with 'elven' in the name as martial weapons.
PF Elves do not automatically make search checks to find hidden doors when within 5 feet.

Gnome
Gnomes have gained +2 CHA in addition to the stat modifiers they had in 3.5
The size bonus now grants a -1 to CMB(to make it work with CMD/CMB) and a +4 on stealth(which includes hide and move silently).
Gnome racial attack bonuses now apply to any creature of the reptilian or goblinoid subtype
Gnomes now have a +2 bonus to perception(which includes listen, spot, and search)
Instead of a +2 Craft(Alchemy) gnomes get a +2 racial bonus to the craft or profession of their choice
Any weapon with the word 'Gnome' in it is considered as a martial weapon

Half-Elves
Half-Elves get +2 to the stat of their choice
Half-Elves get skill focus as a free bonus feat to the skill of their choice
Half-Elves get +2 to perception instead of +1 to listen, spot, and search(which are all included in perception)
Half-Elves get to choose two favored classes
Half-Elves no longer get +2 to diplomacy or gather information

Half-Orc
Instead of +2 STR/-2 INT/ -2 CHA Half-Orcs now get +2 to one stat of their choosing
+2 to intimidate
Once per day a Half-Orc taken below 0 HP can fight for one more round as if disabled.
Automatically proficient with greataxes and falchions, and any weapon with the word 'Orc' in it's name is considered martial.

Halfling
Halflings have gained +2 CHA in addition to the stat modifiers they had in 3.5
The size bonus now grants a -1 to CMB(to make it work with CMD/CMB) and a +4 on stealth(which includes hide and move silently).
+2 bonus to perception checks
+2 bonus to acrobatics(what would have been jump/tumble in 3.5)
Automatic proficiency with slings and treat any weapons with 'hafling' in the name as martial
Halflings no longer gain a racial bonus to stealth(move silently)
Hafllings no longer have a +1 to hit with slings or thrown weapons

Human
Humans get +2 to the stat of their choice
Humans only get 1 extra skill point at first level(which is more a modification of the way the system works than anything specific to humans).

Pathfinder Races (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/races.html)
3.5 Races (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm)


Miscellaneous


The following is a list of things that are worth mentioning now, but will be more thoroughly explained later.

Skills
You no longer gain four times the normal skill points at first level.
Instead, every skill that is a class skill and has at least one point in it gets a +3 bonus to it. There is no penalty for cross class skills anymore, just the benefit that is gained by putting one rank into a class skill.

Feats
Each player gains a feat at every odd level, instead of every 3 levels.

CMD/CMB
Combat Maneuver Defense and Combat Maneuver Bonus
The mechanics behind grapple/trip/bull rush/etc. have all been replaced by this system.

Every character/NPC/monster has a CMD(which is effectively their 'AC' against Combat Maneuvers. Sometimes a creatures CMD can be higher against certain maneuvers(like dwarves having a +4 against tripping and bull rushing).

Every character also has a CMB associated with each different maneuver(each one is affected by different feats).

When one person wants to use a combat maneuver against another person they must roll 1d20 plus their CMB for the associated maneuver, and if they get equal to or over their opponents CMD then the maneuver succeeds.

Pathfinder PRD (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/)
3.5 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)

Typewriter
2009-09-22, 11:26 AM
Classes:

Barbarian

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Climb | Climb
Craft | Craft
Handle Animal | Handle Animal
Intimidate | Intimidate
Jump | Acrobatics
Listen | Perception
Ride | Ride
Survival | Survival
Swim | Swim
N/A | Knowledge(Nature)


Changes to old abilities:

Illiteracy
Removed from game

Rage
Replace the skills they can't use while raging with Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride(Not really a change, just one addition(fly) and two skills merged).
Instead of being able to rage a certain amount of times per day Barbarians can rage a certain number of rounds per day (Levelx2+2+CON(MOD))
The barbarian is fatigued for 2x the duration of the rage after stopping the rage.
The limitations on what you can do while raging are not as thoroughly detailed as they are in 3.5 Not being able to cast, use spell trigger, etc. etc. are not specifically listed but it does say no to "any ability that requires patience or concentration" so DM adjudication may apply.

Uncanny Dodge
Uncanny dodge now states that you are still vulnerable to feinting.

New Abilities:

Rage Powers
At 2nd level, and every 2 levels after the Barbarian gets to select a new Rage Power from a list of options, that grant him different abilities. The abilities you can gain range from doing extra damage once per rage to healing yourself once per day.

Pathfinder Barbarian (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/barbarian.html#barbarian)

3.5 Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm)


Bard

HD: Upgraded to d8
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Appraise | Appraise
Balance | Acrobatics
Bluff | Bluff
Climb | Climb
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Decipher Script | Linguistics
Diplomacy | Diplomacy
Disguise | Disguise
Escape Artist | Escape Artist
Gather Information | Diplomacy
Hide | Stealth
Jump | Acrobatics
Knowledge(Any) | Knowledge(Any)
Listen | Perception
Move Silently | Stealth
Perform | Perform
Profession | Profession
Sense Motive | Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand | Sleight of Hand
Speak Language | Linguistics
Spellcraft | Spellcraft
Swim | N/A
Tumble | Acrobatics
Use Magic Device | Use Magic Device
N/A | Intimidate



Changes to old abilities:

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed, but changes to the number and level of spells known have changed, along with the bard spell list being slightly modified.

Bardic Knowledge
Bardic Knowledge now grants a bonus to all knowledge checks equal to one half your bard level, and allows the player to make any knowledge check untrained.

Bardic Performance
Instead of only being able to do it a certain number of times per day, the bard can now do so for only a certain number of rounds per day. The bard can use bardic performance for a total of 2+2xBard Level + CHA(MOD) each day.
Starting the bardic music is still a standard action, but performances can now be maintained as a free action.
At 7th level starting the performance becomes a move action.
At 13th level starting the performance becomes a swift action.
Many songs are now designated as either auditory or visual, and you must be able to sense the bard in the appropriate way for the specific song to affect you.

Counter Song and Distraction(NEW)
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at first level.
Counter Song works audibly to counter sound based effects, while distraction is visual and counters illusions.

Fascinate
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at first level.
The saving throw is no longer the perform check, but instead 10+1/2 Bard Level + CHA(MOD)

Inspire Courage
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at first level.
The effect does not last for five rounds after the bard stops performing.
The bonus granted goes up at levels 5, 11, and 17 instead of 8, 14, and 20

Inspire Competence
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at third level.
No maximum duration(aside from how many rounds the bard can perform)
The bonus goes up for every four additional bard levels(7,11,15,19)

Suggestion
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at sixth level.

Inspire Greatness
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at ninth level.
The effect does not last for five rounds after the bard stops performing.

Song of Freedom
Removed from game

Inspire Heroics
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at 15th level.
The effect does not last for five rounds after the bard stops performing.

Mass Suggestion
There is no minimum skill rank to get these powers, instead it's gotten automatically at 18th level.

New Songs:

Dirge of Doom
This performance is learned at level 8
Those who hear this performance are shaken(this effect cannot be used to move enemies further than shaken)

Soothing Performance
This performance is learned at level 12
Requires the ability to see and hear the bard
Requires four rounds of performance
30 foot burst of Mass cure Serious Wounds that removes shaken, sickened, and fatigue.

Frightening Tune
This performance is learned at level 14
30 foot fear burst
Will save equals 10+1/2 Bard Level+CHA(MOD)
Once per enemy/24 hours

Deadly Performance
This performance is learned at level 20
Requires audio and video for 1 full round
Single enemy makes will save(DC 10+1/2 Bard Level+CHA(MOD) or die
If it makes it's save it is staggered for 1d4 rounds instead of outright killed
Once per enemy/24 hours

Pathfinder Bard (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/bard.html#bard)

3.5 Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm)


Cleric

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: The cleric no longer gets heavy armor automatically, but does gain proficiency with their deities favored weapon automatically.
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Diplomacy | Diplomacy
Heal | Heal
Knowledge(Arcana) | Knowledge(Arcana)
Knowledge(History) | Knowledge(History)
Knowledge(Religion) | Knowledge(Religion)
Knowledge(The Planes) | Knowledge(The Planes)
Profession | Profession
Sense Motive | Sense Motive
Spellcraft | Spellcraft
N/A | Appraise
N/A | Knowledge(Nobility)
N/A | Linguistics


Changes to old abilities:

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed, but changes to the number and level of spells known have changed, along with the cleric spell list being slightly modified.

Domains
Domains still grant the cleric one extra spell of each level to cast, but the mechanics behind the domain powers have slightly changed, causing the clerics to get these abilities over time.

Turn Undead >>>>Channel Energy
Instead of gaining the ability to turn or rebuke undead a certain amount of times per day, clerics gain the power to do a positive or negative energy burst which affects all in the radius (friends or foes) meaning the cleric can heal allies at the same time he's harming undead.

Orisons
Clerics know a limited number of 0 level spells, but are able to cast them as often as they want.

Pathfinder Cleric (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/cleric.html#cleric)

3.5 Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm)


Druid

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Diplomacy | Diplomacy
Handle Animal | Handle Animal
Heal | Heal
Knowledge(Nature) | Knowledge(Nature)
Listen | Perception
Profession | Profession
Ride | Ride
Spellcraft | Spellcraft
Spot | Perception
Survival | Survival
Swim | Swim
N/A | Climb
N/A | Fly
N/A | Knowledge(Geography)


Changes to old abilities:

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed, but changes to the number and level of spells known have changed, along with the druid spell list being slightly modified.

Animal Companion >>>>> Nature Bond
The druid can choose between getting an elemental domain, and its associated powers, along with the spells it grants, or the druid can get an animal companion which is similar to the 3.5 animal companion with the following differences:
1. The number of HD the animal companion has is determined by the level of the druid, regardless of animal type.
2. The animal companion table now has a level by level progression rather than just upgrades every 3 levels.
3. All companions are available at low levels, the ones that used to be stronger are just in juvenile form.
4. Animal companions can have an Int above 2, and they learn a language.
5. Animal companions get to choose their skills, feats, and stat boosts for leveling as normal.

Resist Nature’s Lure
This power now also affects spells and effects that utilize or target plants in addition to fey.

Wild Shape
The entire wild shape mechanic has been scrapped and replaced with excerpts from the new polymorph set of spells. The druid begins getting these 'spells' at level 4 and progresses steadily along. For more information on the specifics of how these work click the links below.

Example Spell: Beast shape 1(the first Wild Shape ability the PF druid gets). (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/beastShape.html#beast-shape-i)

Pathfinder Druid (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/druid.html#druid)

3.5 Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm)



Fighter

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Climb | Climb
Craft | Craft
Handle Animal | Handle Animal
Intimidate | Intimidate
Jump | N/A
Ride | Ride
Swim | Swim
N/A | Survival
N/A | Knowledge(Dungeoneering)
N/A | Knowledge(Engineering)


Changes to old abilities:

Bonus Feats
The fighters progression of bonus feats has stayed the same, bue due to certain feats being removed from the game and new ones added this feature has received a major change. For a list of all the fighter feats, wait for the feats section.

In addition, at 4th level and again at every four levels after that, the fighter can drop one of his previously chosen fighter feats in favor of another as long as the one he's dropping is not a prerequisite for another feat.

New Abilities:

Bravery
At 2nd level and every four levels after the fighter gains a +1 to will saves against fear.

Armor Training
At third level any armor check penalty the fighter incurs is reduced by 1, and the maximum dex increases by one. Every four levels(until level 15) the penalty reduces by one more, and the max dex goes up by one morel. In addition, a fighters speed is not dampened by medium armor, and at level 7the fighter is not slowed by heavy armor.

Weapon Training
At level 5 the fighter designates a weapon group as the one he has chosen, and he gains a +1 to hit and damage with weapons from that group. Every four levels after that the fighter gets a new weapon group, and all weapon groups that he was previously proficient with go up by 1. (Level 9, he has +2 to one group, +1 to his new group - Level 13 he has +3 to his first group, +2 to his second group, and +1 to his new group).
This benefit applies to his CMB when using weapons from the designated group to attack, and applies to his CMB when defending against maneuvers made using weapons in his designated groups.

Armor Mastery
At level 19 the fighter gains DR 5/- any time he is wearing armor or using a shield.

Weapon Mastery
At level 20 the fighter designates one single weapon. With that weapon all critical threats are automatically confirmed, and the crit multiplier increases by one. The fighter cannot be disarmed of this weapon.

Example Spell: Beast shape 1(the first Wild Shape ability the PF druid gets). (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/beastShape.html#beast-shape-i)

Pathfinder Fighter (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/druid.html#druid)

3.5 Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm)



Monk

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Monks are now proficient with shortspears, short swords, and spears.
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Balance | Acrobatics
Climb | Climb
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Diplomacy | N/A
Escape Artist | Escape Artist
Hide | Stealth
Jump | Acrobatics
Knowledge(Arcana) | N/A
Knowledge(Religion) | Knowledge(Religion)
Listen | Perception
Move Silently | Stealth
Perform | Perform
Profession | Profession
Sense Motive | Sense Motive
Spot | Perception
Swim | Swim
Tumble | Acrobatics
N/A | Intimidate
N/A | Knowledge(History)
N/A | Ride


Changes to old abilities:

AC Bonus
The bonuses received from the monks AC bonus also apply to their CMD

[B]Flurry of Blows[B]
The flurry of blows is used as if the monks level were his BAB. At levels 8 and 15 he gains an additional attack to his flurry. All penalties are based off the two weapon fighting rules instead of flat penalties.

Bonus Feats
The list of bonus feats available to monks has changed considerably due to the changing of feats between 3.5 and PF. The PF monk gains a feat at first and second level, then again every four levels. The list of feats available grows as the monk levels.

Ki Strike >>>>> Ki Pool
See below under new abilities

Purity of Body
The immunity now applies to all disease regardless of their origin

Wholeness of Body
It now takes the monk two Ki points(See below) to heal their monk level.

Abundant Step
It now takes the monk two Ki points(See below) to use this power.

Quivering Palm
Now usable once per day.

Empty Body
The monk now spends three Kit points(See below) to become ethereal for up to one minute.

Perfect Body
The DR is now 10/Chaotic

New Abilities:

Stunning Fist
The monk automatically gains this feat in addition to their normal bonus feats.
As the monk levels he gets new options for what effects to add to their stunning fist, eventually staggering, deafening, blinding, or stunning with it.

Maneuver Training
At third level the monk uses their monk level in place of their BAB when doing combat maneuvers.

Ki Pool
The monk gains a number of Ki points equal to one half his monk level + WIS(MOD). If he has at least one point his unarmed strikes count as magic for overcoming DR. This ability also counts as Lawful at level 10, and adamantine at level 16 (including for hardness).
In addition to the passive effect a monk can use 1 point to get one extra attack while flurrying for one round, +4 dodge bonus to AC for one round, or +20 to their speed for one round.
Ki points are also used to fuel other powers the monk gains, which are listed above.

Pathfinder Monk (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/monk.html#monk)

3.5 Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm)


Paladin

HD: Unchanged
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Diplomacy | Diplomacy
Handle Animal | Handle Animal
Heal | Heal
Knowledge(Nobility) | Knowledge(Nobility)
Knowledge(Religion) | Knowledge(Religion)
Profession | Profession
Ride | Ride
Sense Motive | Sense Motive
N/A | Spellcraft


Changes to old abilities:

Detect Evil
A palading can use detect evil as the spell, or focus on an individual item or person to find out about them specifically.

Smite Evil
As a swift action the paladin designates an opponent. If they are not evil nothing happens. If they are evil then the paladin gets a bonus to attack against them equal to their CHA(MOD) and a bonus to their damage equal to their Paladin Level. If the opponent is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature the damage bonus is doubled.
If a valid target is selected the Paladins attacks automatically bypasses any DR the opponent has.
The Paladin gains a deflection bonus to their AC equal to their CHA(MOD) against the target of the smite.
The Paladin gains an extra use of this ability at fourth level and every three additional levels thereafter.

Lay on Hands
The Paladin can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 their paladin level + CHA(MOD). Each time it's used they heal 1d6 for every 2 paladin levels. If the Paladin uses this ability on himself it's a swift action. If used against anyone else it's a standard action. Undead must be hit by a touch attack, but do not get a save to halve the damage.

Turn Undead >>>>>>Channel Energy
A Paladin gets the ability to channel energy as a cleric of their level, but each use of this uses up two uses of lay on hands.

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed aside from the fact that Paladins now cast at their Paladin level minus three, but changes to the number and level of spells known have changed, along with the Paladin spell list being slightly modified.

Special Mount >>>>> Divine Bond
The paladin gets to choose between having a loyal steed(Special Mount) and the ability to enhance their weapon for 1 minute per paladin level(starts at one use per day but goes up). The bonuses stack with any other bonuses the weapon may already have, but the same effect doesn't stack with itself.

Remove Disease
See Mercies below

New Abilities:

Mercy
Starting at level 3 and again after every 3 levels the Paladin has a list of effects that he removes whenever he uses his lay on hands. The list grows as the Paladin gains levels, and includes everything from dazed, paralyzed, stunned, diseased, poison, etc. etc.
The effect is only gone for 1 hour unless the cause of the effect is removed in some other way.

Aura of Resolve
At 8th level the Paladin becomes immune to charm effects, and grants all allies with 10 ft. a moral bonus against such saves.

Aura of Justice
Starting at level 11 the paladin can give up two uses of the smite ability to grant the ability to declare a smite to all allies within 10 ft. This ability cannot be used by those with evil alignments, and must be used before the Paladins next turn begins.
Those affected use the Paladins bonuses.
Using this ability is a free action.

Aura of Faith
Starting at level 14 all attacks(including her own) made within 10 ft. of the paladin count as good aligned for bypassing DR

Aura of Righteousness
The Paladin gains DR 5/Evil and immunity to compulsion effects. All allies within 10 ft. gain a +4 morale bonus to saves against compulsion effects.

Holy Champion
The Paladins DR increases to 10/Evil.
All smites against evil outsiders automatically count as a banishment effect.
Any time the Paladin uses her healing abilities(Lay on Hands/Channel Energy) she heals the max amount.

Pathfinder Paladin (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/paladin.html#paladin)
3.5 Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm)


Ranger

HD: Changed to d10
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Climb | Climb
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Handle Animal | Handle Animal
Heal | Heal
Hide | Stealth
Jump | Acrobatics
Knowledge(Dungeoneering) | Knowledge(Dungeoneering)
Knowledge(Geography) | Knowledge(Geography)
Knowledge(Nature) | Knowledge(Nature)
Listen | Perception
Move Silently | Stealth
Profession | Profession
Ride | Ride
Search | Perception
Spot | Perception
Survival | Survival
Swim | Swim
Use Rope | N/A?
N/A | Intimidate
N/A | Spellcraft


Changes to old abilities:

Favored Enemy
The Paladin can make knowledge checks untrained to try and identify his favored enemies, and he gets a +2 to do so.
The +2 also applies to the attack roll.

Track
A ranger adds half his level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks.

Combat Style, Improved Combat Style, Combat Style Mastery >>>>> Combat Style Feat
Instead of a completely set path once choosing your style, the Ranger selects his style at level 2 and gets a feat(and again every 4 levels) and gets to choose from a list of feats in that style. As the ranger gains levels more feats get added to the list of options he has available.

Animal Companion >>>>> Hunters Bond
The ranger gets to choose between an animal companion (which works just like the 3.5 version of animal companion, except for the changes made to PF druids animal companion) or being able to use a move action to grant half of their favored enemy bonuses to an enemy of the appropriate type. This doesn't stack with other favored enemy bonuses that the other party members may have.

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed aside from the fact that Rangers now cast at their Paladin level minus three, but changes to the number and level of spells known have changed, along with the Ranger spell list being slightly modified.

Camouflage
The ranger gets this at level 12 instead of 13

New Abilities:

Favored Terrain
At levels 3, 8, 13, and 18 the ranger chooses a terrain type as one of his preferred, which grants him a +2 bonus to certain skill checks when in such terrain, as well as being able to upgrade the bonus from one of his favored terrains by 2.

Quarry
Starting at level 11 the ranger may designate one opponent(if they correspond to one of his favored enemy types) as his quarry. It becomes easier for him to track his quarry, gives him bonuses to hit, and automatically confirms all critical threats against the quarry.

Improved Evasion
The ranger gains improved evasion at level 16

Improved Quarry
The bonuses that the ranger was getting from Quarry all increase, and he is able to designate a new quarry more often.

Master Hunter
The Ranger always moves at full speed while tracking.
Once per day against each favored creature type that the ranger has he may designate a single attack as a standard action that forces the opponent to make a Fortitude save(DC 10+1/2 Ranger Level+WIS(MOD)) or die (or be dealt an amount of subdual damage equal to their HP).

Pathfinder Ranger (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/ranger.html#ranger)

3.5 Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm)


Rogue

HD: Changed to d8
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Appraise | Appraise
Balance | Acrobatics
Bluff | Bluff
Climb | Climb
Craft | Craft
Decipher Script | Linguistics
Diplomacy | Diplomacy
Disable Device | Disable Device
Disguise | Disguise
Escape Artist | Escape Artist
Forgery | Linguistics
Gather Information | Diplomacy
Hide | Stealth
Intimidate | Intimidate
Jump | Acrobatics
Knowledge(Local) | Knowledge(Local)
Listen | Perception
Move Silently | Stealth
Open Lock | Disable Device
Perform | Perform
Profession | Profession
Search | Perception
Sense Motive | Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand | Sleight of Hand
Spot | Perception
Swim | Swim
Tumble | Acrobatics
Use Magic Device | Use Magic Device
Use Rope | N/A?
N/A | Knowledge(Dungeoneering)


Changes to old abilities:

Sneak Attack
The rogue can make a sneak attack against any opponent who is not specifically protected against it(no mention of undead/constructs being immune).

Trapfinding
While anyone can disable any nonmagical trap, only a rogue can disable magical ones.
A rogue gets a bonus equal to one half their rogue level to search for traps and to disable them.

Special Abilities >>>>> Advanced Talents
See Rogue Talents and Advanced Talents below.

New Abilities:

Rogue Talents
At every even level the rogue gets to select an ability from a list of 'rogue talents' that grant her different abilities. The different abilities range from being able to cause bleed damage to earning the rogue the weapon finesse feat.

Advanced Talents
At level 10 the list of talents the rogue can choose from grows to include several different abilities many of which come from the 3.5 rogues "Special Abilities" class feature.

Master Strike
At level 20 the rogue gets the option to do one of three things every time they successfully deal sneak attack damage to a target:
1. Put them to sleep for 1d4 hours
2. Paralyze them for 2d6 rounds
3. Kill them outright
The DC to negate the effect is 10+1/2 Rogue Level+INT(MOD)
If someone makes a save they are not subject to this ability again for another 24 hours.

Pathfinder Rogue (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/rogue.html#rogue)

3.5 Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm)


Sorceror

HD: Changed to d6
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder
Bluff | Bluff
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Knowledge(Arcana) | Knowledge(Arcana)
Profession | Profession
Spellcraft | Spellcraft
N/A | Appraise
N/A | Fly
N/A | Intimidate
N/A | Use Magic Device


Changes to old abilities:

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed, but changes have been made to several spells ranging from some spells being eliminated completely, some renamed, and some simply reworded.

Summon Familiar
Removed from game

New Abilities:

Cantrips
Sorcerors learn a number of 0 level spells that they can recast as often as they like.

Eschew Materials
Sorcerors gain this feat for free

Bloodline
The sorceror gets to choose what it is that powers their magic from a list of available options called bloodlines. Each bloodline gives a number of benefits to the caster, along with a bonus spell of each spell level. In addition to those bonus spells the caster gets:
1. At levels 7, 13, and 19 the sorceror gets a bonus feat from a list determined by the bloodline they chose.
2. At levels 1, 3, 9, 15, and 20 the sorceror gets an ability determined by their bloodline. These powers do different things from granting DR to limited abilities, or even natural weapons, and more.

Pathfinder Sorcerer (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#rogue)

3.5 Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#sorcerer)


Wizard

HD: Changed to d6
Skill points per level: Unchanged
Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged
Skill List:
3.5 | Pathfinder

Appraise | Appraise
Concentration | Special
Craft | Craft
Decipher Script | Linguistics
Knowledge(Any) | Knowledge(Any)
Profession | Profession
Spellcraft | Spellcraft
N/A | Fly


Changes to old abilities:

Spellcasting
The spellcasting mechanic itself hasn't changed, but changes have been made to several spells ranging from some spells being eliminated completely, some renamed, and some simply reworded.

Summon Familiar >>>>> Arcane Bond
The wizard gets to choose between having a familiar and bonding with an item.
Familiars work similarly to how they worked in 3.5 with only minor changes made to them to make familiars work with Pathfinder.
If the wizard chooses to have an arcane bond with an item, the item allows the wizard to cast any single spell he knows once per day despite not having it prepared. The downside to this is that if the wizard does not have his item then he must make a concentration check to cast spells.

New Abilities:

Cantrips
Sorcerors learn a number of 0 level spells that they can recast as often as they like.

Arcane School
The wizard has the option of specializing in a specific school of magic or just being a universalist. Whatever path the wizard chooses he gains a set of abilities as he levels that range from bonuses to stats, to being able to cast metamagic feats at reduced price(without being able to raise the spell level above what you could normally cast - Even though you could reduce the metamagic cost of a feat to nothing, the spell level would have been above what you could normally cast, and therefore you can't cast it. Example: Level 13 wizard can cast a silent 6th level spell with a 6th level spell slot, but couldn't silent cast a 7th level spell in a 7th level slot because the silent cast SHOULD be an 8th level spell slot).

Pathfinder Wizard (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#wizard)

3.5 Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard)

Typewriter
2009-09-22, 11:27 AM
Skill Translation

{TABLE=head] 3.5 | Pathfinder
Appraise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/appraise.htm) | Appraise (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/appraise.html#appraise)
Balance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm) | Acrobatics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#acrobatics)
Bluff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm) | Bluff (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/bluff.html#bluff)
Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm) | Climb (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/climb.html#climb)
Concentration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm) | Spellcraft/Special (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/spellcraft.html#spellcraft)
Craft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) | Craft (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/craft.html#craft)
Decipher Script (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/decipherscript.htm) | Linguistics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/linguistics.html#linguistics)
Diplomacy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm) | Diplomacy (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/diplomacy.html#diplomacy)
Disable Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disabledevice.htm) | Disable Device (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/disabledevice.html#disable-device)
Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm) | Disguise (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/disguise.html#disguise)
Escape Artist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/escapeartist.htm) | Escape Artist (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/escapeartist.html#escape-artist)
Forgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/forgery.htm) | Linguistics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/linguistics.html#linguistics)
Gather Information (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/gatherinformation.htm) | Diplomacy (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/diplomacy.html#diplomacy)
Handle Animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleanimal.htm) | Handle Animal (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/handleanimal.html#handle-animal)
Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/heal.htm) | Heal (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/heal.html#heal)
Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) | Stealth (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/stealth.html#stealth)
Intimidate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm) | Intimidate (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/intimidate.html#intimidate)
Jump (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm) | Acrobatics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#acrobatics)
Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) | Knowledge (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/knowledge.html#knowledge)
Listen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm) | Perception (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perception.html#perception)
Move Silently (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/movesilently.htm) | Stealth (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/stealth.html#stealth)
Open Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/openlock.htm) | Disable Device (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/disabledevice.html#disable-device)
Perform (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) | Perform (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perform.html#perform)
Profession (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) | Profession (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/profession.html#profession)
Ride (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/ride.htm) | Ride (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/ride.html#ride)
Search (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/search.htm) | Perception (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perception.html#perception)
Sense Motive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/sensemotive.htm) | Sense Motive (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/sensemotive.html#sense-motive)
Sleight of Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/sleightofhand.htm) | Sleight of Hand (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/sleightofhand.html#sleight-of-hand)
Speak Language (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/speaklanguage.htm) | Linguistics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/linguistics.html#linguistics)
Spellcraft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm) | Spellcraft (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/spellcraft.html#spellcraft)
Spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) | Perception (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perception.html#perception)
Survival (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm) | Survival (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/survival.html#survival)
Swim (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/swim.htm) | Swim (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/swim.html#swim)
Tumble (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) | Acrobatics (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#acrobatics)
Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usemagicdevice.htm) | Use Magic Device (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/usemagicdevice.html#use-magic-device)
Use Rope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/userope.htm) | N/A
[/TABLE]


Specific Changes

Acrobatics(Balance, Jump, Tumble)
The DC to move through a threatened square without provoking attacks of opportunity is now equal to the threatening opponents CMD.
The DC to move through an opponents square is 5+the opponents CMD.
Since Jump and Tumble have been combined into one skill you cannot reduce the amount of falling damage you receive twice by 'jumping' then 'tumbling'

Appraise
The DCs have changed along with the amount you misunderstand by failure.
If you succeed by 5 or more you know if the item has magic properties.

Bluff
Favorable or unfavorable conditions now affect your roll, not the roll of the person using sense motive.
When you feint against an opponent with Sense Motive they no longer get to add their BAB to the roll, but will use BAB+WIS(MOD) if it's higher than their Sense Motive modifier.
There is no mention of using bluff to create a diversion to hide.

Climb
The DC to climb an overhang or ceiling with handholds but no footholds increased by 5.

Diplomacy(Diplomacy, Gather Information)
The DC to diplomance someone is now based off of their current attitude and their CHA(MOD).
You can never move someone more than 2 squares with a single diplomacy check.
The results now last for up to 1d4 hours or other(DM discretion)
Once someone is at least indifferent you can make a new diplomacy roll to try and get favors done.
Diplomacy is now used to gather information.

Disable Device(Disable Device, Open Lock)
This skill operates for the same purposes that Disable Device and Open Lock had in 3.5, and the DCs are all the same.

Disguise
You can disguise yourself as a different size category for a -10 to the roll













Reserved for information on skills and feats

Until I get to this part Epiniprhine was nice enough to supply some general information I can toss in here for now :)

Since acrobatics is a single skill covering jump and tumble, you can't reduce your falling distance twice (in 3.5 you could jump down, and tumble - now there is only 1 roll).

Concentration skill no longer exists, concentration rolls are based on your caster level and your casting attribute, and are a level check.

Casting Defensively is now 15+2*spell level, rather than 15+spell level.


Skill consolidations:
Tumble, Balance and Jump -> Acrobatics
Open Locks, Disable Device -> Disable Device
Know Language, Forgery, Decipher Script -> Linguistics
Gather Information, Diplomacy -> Diplomacy
Hide, Move Silently -> Stealth
Spot, Listen, Search -> Perception

Anyone can track.
Anyone can find a mechanical trap.
Anyone can disable devices with the skill, only rogues can do magical traps.

All 0th level spells are "cantrips", and can be used at will - only a few are known, however.

Typewriter
2009-09-22, 11:29 AM
Reserved for spells(This parts going to suck)

Typewriter
2009-09-22, 11:30 AM
Reserved for other information including CMD/CMB specifics and probably a lot more

Shisumo
2009-09-22, 11:53 AM
Minor correction: you have the +4 size bonus to Stealth for gnomes and halflings listed as a -4 penalty.

Rixx
2009-09-22, 12:58 PM
Don't forget the changes to the Concentration mechanic and the minor changes to certian spells, as well. Those are important changes.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-22, 01:05 PM
I think this is a very good idea for a thread.

Androgeus
2009-09-22, 01:19 PM
Just point out a non-major typo, under Races-Humans, you have "Half-evles...", I do believe you either mean Humans or quite possibly Half-Elvis :smallsmile:

Epinephrine
2009-09-22, 01:32 PM
Neat - are you bothering with specific class-based info (like the paladin's smite changes) and minor changes (like the bard's spell progression and inspire courage progression)?

I can certainly provide a lot of material, having switched from 3.5 to Pathfinder and translated many enemies/characters in the process.

General changes:

Wind strengths are different in PF - they are approximately one category weaker than they were in 3.5.

Since acrobatics is a single skill covering jump and tumble, you can't reduce your falling distance twice (in 3.5 you could jump down, and tumble - now there is only 1 roll).

Concentration skill no longer exists, concentration rolls are based on your caster level and your casting attribute, and are a level check.

Casting Defensively is now 15+2*spell level, rather than 15+spell level.


Skill consolidations:
Tumble, Balance and Jump -> Acrobatics
Open Locks, Disable Device -> Disable Device
Know Language, Forgery, Decipher Script -> Linguistics
Gather Information, Diplomacy -> Diplomacy
Hide, Move Silently -> Stealth
Spot, Listen, Search -> Perception

Anyone can track.
Anyone can find a mechanical trap.
Anyone can disable devices with the skill, only rogues can do magical traps.

All 0th level spells are "cantrips", and can be used at will - only a few are known, however.

Typewriter
2009-09-22, 02:03 PM
Sweet :)

Thanks for the help, it'll save me a bunch of time. Class specific stuff I'm going to go over, but I'm not going to go super specific with class features and the like, just general "Smite is the same in all regards except for it now lasts until the target is dead, and yada yada blah".

It may take me a bit longer than I originally mentioned to get all this stuff done, I forgot that I have some things to do with the wife tonight and tomorrow night.

Typos are being fixed, thanks for pointing them out :)

Typewriter
2009-09-23, 03:39 PM
The classes are all done. Please notify me if I got anything wrong, or if I missed a change.

Rixx
2009-09-23, 03:45 PM
Something you missed: Rangers (And Paladins, too, I think) cast at their class level-3 instead of 1/2 their class level, now.

Typewriter
2009-09-23, 03:49 PM
Something you missed: Rangers (And Paladins, too, I think) cast at their class level-3 instead of 1/2 their class level, now.

Fixed, and thanks :)


By the way to everyone reading:

Does anyone have a better name for this thread? I don't really like what I put down, but I can't think of something short and descriptive.

PinkysBrain
2009-09-23, 04:06 PM
They no longer seem to have rules for >large weapons despite the Giant Form II spell (you can use a colossal+ weapon with an oversized club and shillelagh).

jiriku
2009-09-23, 04:13 PM
Typewriter this is really useful. Thank you for making it!

If you want a more concise title, you might use "Changes from 3.5 to Pathfinder".

Ravens_cry
2009-09-23, 05:00 PM
Heh, I am playing a paladin now by the final rules, and they are awesome. I don't even have spells yet, and I feel like a Big Damn Hero. The Sun Goddesses Fury shall Burn the Taint of Evil From The Land!
Now if only the Random Number God would shine upon me. . .:smallannoyed:

BobVosh
2009-09-23, 05:07 PM
You didn't mention that elves no longer trance.

Have fun with spells :P

Stephen_E
2009-09-23, 05:10 PM
Animal Companions -
HD for ACs is now solely determined by the AC table. So all ACs of a effective 5th lev Druid are 5HD, regardless wether they're a Dog or a Tiger.

The AC table is now level by level rather than every 3 levels. Basically the same but smoothed out.

All ACs are availble at start. Instead of having penalties to your EDL (effective Druid level) you start with a juvenile form form with reduced stats which will increase in stats and abilities at 4th or 7th level. The standard ACs also get a small stat boost at 4th lev.

AC's can now have their Int score climb above 2 and stay ACs. When that happens they can learn a language (although it doesn't say whether they can speak it. Left to GM fiat/campaign style).

Possible feat and skill choices specified for ACs of Int 1 and 2.

Specified that ACs get +1 to stat of choice per 4HD (as PC).


Stephen E

Typewriter
2009-09-24, 08:09 AM
Heh, I am playing a paladin now by the final rules, and they are awesome. I don't even have spells yet, and I feel like a Big Damn Hero. The Sun Goddesses Fury shall Burn the Taint of Evil From The Land!
Now if only the Random Number God would shine upon me. . .:smallannoyed:

Yeah, my group is leaning towards evil and I'm really looking forward to pitting them against a Paladin of party destruction. I really seems like if he's fighting the right thing he destroys worlds. Of course, if he's not fighting the right thing....


You didn't mention that elves no longer trance.

Have fun with spells :P

I'm comparing SRD to PRD and I didn't see a mention of trance in either. Is it there and I just missed it?


Animal Companions -
HD for ACs is now solely determined by the AC table. So all ACs of a effective 5th lev Druid are 5HD, regardless wether they're a Dog or a Tiger.

The AC table is now level by level rather than every 3 levels. Basically the same but smoothed out.

All ACs are availble at start. Instead of having penalties to your EDL (effective Druid level) you start with a juvenile form form with reduced stats which will increase in stats and abilities at 4th or 7th level. The standard ACs also get a small stat boost at 4th lev.

AC's can now have their Int score climb above 2 and stay ACs. When that happens they can learn a language (although it doesn't say whether they can speak it. Left to GM fiat/campaign style).

Possible feat and skill choices specified for ACs of Int 1 and 2.

Specified that ACs get +1 to stat of choice per 4HD (as PC).


Stephen E

Awesome :)

I was never really familiar with animal companions so I kind of skimmed over it with the intention of going back later or having someone point out my mistakes. Glad it was the latter as it saves me some effort.

Should have skills done today, and probably feats started.

Epinephrine
2009-09-24, 08:25 AM
w.r.t.
Bard: you missed Versatile Performance. First gained at 2nd level, and IIRC every 4 levels after that, it allows a bard to substitute his modifier for a perform skill for a pair of other skills.

Associated skills are:
Act (Bluff, Disguise)
Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate)
Dance (Acrobatics, Fly)
Keyboard Instruments (Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive)
Percussion (Handle Animal, Intimidate)
Sing (Bluff, Sense Motive)
String (Bluff, Diplomacy)
Wind (Diplomacy, Handle Animal).

Hence, a 10th level bard could have three "versatile" perform skills - perhaps Act, Dance, and Oratory - and he could use those 3 skills not only for his performances, but for Bluff, Disguise, Acrobatics, Fly, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive.

Cleric:

Instead of gaining the ability to turn or rebuke undead a certain amount of times per day, clerics gain the power to do a positive or negative energy burst which affects all in the radius (friends or foes) meaning the cleric can heal allies at the same time he's harming undead.

Not quite correct - you have to choose whether you are harming undead or healing allies - two different abilities (this is a change from beta, when you could do both at once).
A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. Selective Channeling is still handy, as you can elect not to heal (or harm) some foes in range.



CMD: Might be worth pointing out that CMD is also the tumble DC for tumbling without provoking Attacks of Opportunity, and 5+CMD is the DC to tumble through an opponent's square.

Druid: it relates to a specific spell, but since Druids gain the "a thousand faces" ability, the change to Alter Self may be worth mentioning. Alter self now acts much like the beast form spells - you select a race to imitate, and gain from a list of abilities as appropriate (Darkvision 60', if the race has that, for example). Small races allow for a +2 Enhancement bonus to Dexterity, while Medium races grant a +2 Enhancement bonus to Strength.

Person_Man
2009-09-24, 10:21 AM
Thanks for making this thread. I've read through Pathfinder Beta, liked some parts, disliked others. It's nice to have all of the changes compiled in one place.

Also, what is Pathfinder's obsession with abilities that work for a certain number of rounds per day? It seems like a lot of tedious bookkeeping. Has anyone actually played with a Pathfinder Barbarian or Bard or whatnot, and if so, how does it work in a real game?

Saph
2009-09-24, 10:24 AM
Also, what is Pathfinder's obsession with abilities that work for a certain number of rounds per day? It seems like a lot of tedious bookkeeping. Has anyone actually played with a Pathfinder Barbarian or Bard or whatnot, and if so, how does it work in a real game?

Yep. I've been thinking of making a thread on it, actually. The party's Wizard/Sorc/Barb/Pally/Ranger/Rogue/Cleric.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-24, 10:33 AM
Yep. I've been thinking of making a thread on it, actually. The party's Wizard/Sorc/Barb/Pally/Ranger/Rogue/Cleric.

Wow, that's a lot of multiclassing for one character! ;)

Saph
2009-09-24, 10:41 AM
You know what I mean. :P

Typewriter
2009-09-24, 10:56 AM
Thanks for making this thread. I've read through Pathfinder Beta, liked some parts, disliked others. It's nice to have all of the changes compiled in one place.

Also, what is Pathfinder's obsession with abilities that work for a certain number of rounds per day? It seems like a lot of tedious bookkeeping. Has anyone actually played with a Pathfinder Barbarian or Bard or whatnot, and if so, how does it work in a real game?

It's not usually much of a problem for my group because we only tend to have one combat each day, so it hasn't come up for our party bard.

They are however just now venturing into a dungeon which is going to have several encounters, so we'll see how that works out...of course at this level he has around 20 rounds, so I'm sure he'll last at least 3-4 encounters.

Ravens_cry
2009-09-24, 10:56 AM
Wow, that's a lot of multiclassing for one character! ;)
There is never too much multiclassing for Senor Vorpal Kickasso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblins_%28webcomic%29)!

Person_Man
2009-09-24, 11:10 AM
It's not usually much of a problem for my group because we only tend to have one combat each day, so it hasn't come up for our party bard.

They are however just now venturing into a dungeon which is going to have several encounters, so we'll see how that works out...of course at this level he has around 20 rounds, so I'm sure he'll last at least 3-4 encounters.

Well let us know how it works. I wonder if it'd just be easier to make all non-caster-ish abilities "At-Will." As long as they take an action to use (and are not just stacking 10 different Free Action boosts on top of each other) who cares if you use a Rage or Kai or whatever power every round of every combat? I guess that Pathfinder wanted to be as "non-4E" as possible, so they refused to incorporate any aspect of its rules, even the good ones that were published years ago in ToB.

Epinephrine
2009-09-24, 11:18 AM
Also, what is Pathfinder's obsession with abilities that work for a certain number of rounds per day? It seems like a lot of tedious bookkeeping. Has anyone actually played with a Pathfinder Barbarian or Bard or whatnot, and if so, how does it work in a real game?

Bard in my campaign.
Works fine for most things, but I houseruled the Inspire Competence to take 1 use for 1 round, 2 used for up to a minute, and 3 uses for up to 10 minutes (subject to a limit of 1 "encounter/challenge" per inspire competence - series of cliffs to climb would be a single big challenge, but multiple traps in a 10 minute period each require their own IC.) That way a bard can actually use it many times a day, or for long enough to help people do a longer task reasonably (for example, a tough trap is 2d4 rounds to disarm, which eats your bardic music otherwise. Paying 2 rounds though seems reasonable)

Likewise, fascinate on a per round basis is a bit much - you may want to keep some guards busy while the party sneaks by them, and back out again.

The combat buffs are fine at 2 rounds/level, we haven't been running out, since battles don't really last much longer as you level.

I'm a little torn by the Inspire Greatness. Old (3.5) IG lasted 5 rounds after you stopped, so you could only get the temp hitpoints every 5-6 rounds. The new IG could be stopped and started each round, essentially continually supplying temp hit points. Not sure if I like it, though the bard hasn't caught on to that fact yet.

Typewriter
2009-09-25, 07:56 AM
What do you guys think of the format I used for the skills so far? I was going to do something similar with feats, something like:

{TABLE=head]3.5 | Pathfinder | Changed| Fighter Bonus | Monk Bonus | Ranger Style
Extra Turning | Extra Channel | Yes | No | No | N/A
Dodge | Dodge | Yes | Yes | Yes | N/A
Two Weapon Fighting | Two Weapon Fighting | No | Yes | No | Melee
Precise Shot | Precise Shot | No | No | No | Ranged
[/TABLE]

Any thoughts? That's just a smattering of different ones, and below I'll have a list of all the new ones and ones that have changed. Of course, I still have to finish skills first.....

jiriku
2009-09-25, 02:43 PM
That looks good. It's simple, well-organized and very easy to interpret.