Did Tyrania actually exist in the first place?

[Ancalagon]

The mapmaker says that country might not exist anymore. But who says that land and lord actually did exist in the first place?

What evidence do we have about Lord Tyrinar? None. We have some letter that could have come from anyone, anywhere. We know that Bozzok made sure Haley's father rushed off to some... we do not know.

We have a VERY unlikely sum that has to get paid and a land that is VERY far, far away.

So what are the chances that land and lord did never actually exist in the first place?

[Hopeless]

I always assumed this was the work of Elan and Nale's dad.

Interesting thought though but that still leaves the mystery about what really happened to her father.

It does work since it motivated her to perform thefts on an extraordinary scale given how much the thieves guild took from her thefts but surely sooner or later she would have figured it out had it been that kind of shenanigan but still...

What if he went looking for that so-called gate and his former lieuttenant used his absence to take control and used the other as an excuse to cover up for himself since it looked clear Haley was as skilled as her father was.

[Silverraptor]

I always assumed this was the work of Elan and Nale's dad.

Interesting thought though but that still leaves the mystery about what really happened to her father.

It does work since it motivated her to perform thefts on an extraordinary scale given how much the thieves guild took from her thefts but surely sooner or later she would have figured it out had it been that kind of shenanigan but still...

What if he went looking for that so-called gate and his former lieuttenant used his absence to take control and used the other as an excuse to cover up for himself since it looked clear Haley was as skilled as her father was.

I don't like "what-if" scenario's because there is an endless amount of them. All they are is a way to keep yourself from losing an argument. I prefer to wait for more information before jumping to conclusions.

[King of Nowhere]

Don't think so. From a in-world point of view, given the politica situation of the western continent it seems perfectly reasonable that a nation is founded and forgotten two years later.
From a storytelling point of view, it would be a big anticlimax

[hamishspence]

It reminds me a bit of The Border Kingdoms in Faerun- a zone of many very small kingdoms, ruled mostly by ex-adventurers who give themselves grandiose titles, and the kingdoms change hands at the drop of a hat.

And the peasants watch with minimal interest, since generally it doesn't much affect their lives, basically "here is the new boss, same as the old boss"

[King of Nowhere]

Oh, by the way, I forgot: this "Tyrania" of yours never existed.
(ok, probably a nation with that name has come to exist, at least for a few months, during the story of the western continent, but that's not really important right now)

[Shale]

Don't think so. From a in-world point of view, given the politica situation of the western continent it seems perfectly reasonable that a nation is founded and forgotten two years later.
From a storytelling point of view, it would be a big anticlimax

that sounds like a good story hook to me. Haley has to track down a man who people would only know as the prisoner of a country most of them have forgotten and the rest probably hated or helped overthrow? Sounds like a challenge.

[Morty]

That's an interesting theory - if someone wanted to make a huge scam involving a false kingdom, a region in which rulers switch every once or twice a year would be prefect.

[Edric O]

That's an interesting theory - if someone wanted to make a huge scam involving a false kingdom, a region in which rulers switch every once or twice a year would be prefect.
Hmmm... a scam involving a false kingdom, you say? Something like...

Hello, you may not know me but I have inherited 3.14 million gold from my late father King Whatshisname of Tyrania, and I want you to give me your life savings so I can fill out the paperwork required to get my money back. I will leave you half my fortune as a reward. Please, do this for the children.

[Pyron]

Hello, you may not know me but I have inherited 3.14 million gold from my late father King Whatshisname of Tyrania, and I want you to give me your life savings so I can fill out the paperwork required to get my money back. I will leave you half my fortune as a reward. Please, do this for the children.

LOL.

The thought of Haley getting suckered by a money scam is just priceless.

[Katana_Geldar]

On the Origin of PCs tells us that Tyrannia is, or rather was, on the Western Continent. This was when Haley got the letter.

Thread over.

[waterpenguin43]

My thoughts: (Caution, Spoilers!!!)
Nale killed his father and re-named the country, that's what he meant by: "Nobody denies me, not you, not father, no one." Though he still has Ian hostage

[David Argall]

We know that Bozzok made sure Haley's father rushed off to some... we do not know.

We have a VERY unlikely sum that has to get paid and a land that is VERY far, far away.

So what are the chances that land and lord did never actually exist in the first place?
It very likely existed. Origin Somebody did send a letter after all and the name was more or less recognized. While Bozzak could have faked that, Haley was a good earner for him at that time. He didn't want her to leave.
So it seems that somebody on the Western continent knew of Haley some 4000 miles away and thought she could and would fork over a huge sum of gold. That pretty much says somebody had pretty permanent control of Daddy, and whether we call them a government or not really is not important.
Whether or not Tyrinaria still exists, it almost certainly existed in the past.

[Berserk Monk]

The mapmaker says that country might not exist anymore. But who says that land and lord actually did exist in the first place?

What evidence do we have about Lord Tyrinar? None. We have some letter that could have come from anyone, anywhere. We know that Bozzok made sure Haley's father rushed off to some... we do not know.

We have a VERY unlikely sum that has to get paid and a land that is VERY far, far away.

So what are the chances that land and lord did never actually exist in the first place?

Who would want, at that time before she met any of the comic's current enemies, Haley to go on some quest to raise that much gold? Bozzok's greedy, but he wouldn't have gotten any of the loot. Not to mention it caused him to lose his best thief. There's Crystal too, but she's too dumb to think of something like this.

[krossbow]

you see, this is all just a big figment of haleys fractured mind and multiple personalities. As haley has devolved further and further into madness, her multiple mental forces have schemed against one another, forcing her to engage in a battle of personalities.
This latest quest is just a letter written by haleys inner goth possessing haley's body without her other side's knowlege in order to drive her further insane.



eh, makes as much sense as anything else thats gone on.

[Tackyhillbillu]

I have a better idea. Haley's Dad is actually the one who sent the letter. He is just trying to bilk his daughter out of the gold.

[AxeD]

What if he went looking for that so-called gate


When did that happen? In the origin of PC's? (Which I ordered yesterday :smallbiggrin:)

[Ancalagon]

It very likely existed. Origin Somebody did send a letter after all and the name was more or less recognized. While Bozzak could have faked that, Haley was a good earner for him at that time. He didn't want her to leave.
So it seems that somebody on the Western continent knew of Haley some 4000 miles away and thought she could and would fork over a huge sum of gold. That pretty much says somebody had pretty permanent control of Daddy, and whether we call them a government or not really is not important.
Whether or not Tyrinaria still exists, it almost certainly existed in the past.

A letter is no proof. I want to remind you about one famous RL-letter the pope received in the 12th century - from someone who very probably does not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prester_John (the legend is actually pretty cool).

The pope even ANSWERED to that false letter and sent a messenger (who never returned, btw).

The letter itself "proofs" nothing as we cannot say if it was actually sent from the western continent from the room next to Haley's.

[Hardcore]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html
Panel 8.

[Ancalagon]

Yes? I am aware of this.

Bozzok talks about "Letters to some friends on the western continent" and how he "does not know what they even wrote".

So where's proof the land in question and some ruling lord actually exist? All we know is that some people on the western continent wrote... something to Haley's father and that she then got another letter, stating the stuff about the ransom and the Lord.

[Hardcore]

Bozzok: "I hear the local government has had him in custody for some time now."
Given that Haley got a letter from the Chancellor of Tyrinaria
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html
I think we can make some reasonable conclusions, right?

[Larkspur]

If Ian is in fact running a con, it would make sense to spread rumors to his old colleagues back on the Eastern Continent that he'd been captured. After all, Haley might try to verify the letter, and if he's scamming her he doesn't want her to go to the expense of asking a caster to scry for him.

[David Argall]

A letter is no proof. I want to remind you about one famous RL-letter the pope received in the 12th century - from someone who very probably does not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prester_John (the legend is actually pretty cool).

The letter itself "proofs" nothing as we cannot say if it was actually sent from the western continent from the room next to Haley's.
Now the point of the letter is that we have a very short list of people who might have written it. With the Prester John letter, we have a lot of candidates and several possible motives, one being support for the next Crusade. But who would write to Haley?
The official story is quite solid this way.
Judge: "200,000 gold or 200 years."
Ian: "But I'm broke, and my only relative is my daughter on the other continent."
Judge: "Well, that means the slammer for you. But we'll send her a letter demanding the gold. Maybe we will both be lucky and she can pay it."

So who else would write to Haley? Or even know she exists? Bozzak could, but Haley is getting him a lot of gold, and he seems entirely unhappy with her leaving. Crystal wants to kill her and is too stupid to think of the plan. We are out of apparent candidates and have to start speculating, which quickly leaves us with no way to predict anything.
One candidate is Hank. In Origin Haley knows Hank is skimming off the top, which means she could destroy him with a word to Bozzak. Add in that she might be a potential rival for Guild power, and Hank might well want her to go away, and go away thinking he was a friend. He might also know Haley well enough to think she might leave to try to rescue Daddy instead of behaving like a proper rogue and writing him off. But it is Bozzak who tells us he lured Ian to the Western continent and that he was captured there. That means he confirms the basic accuracy of the letter, which he has never seen if we assume he didn't write it. That is a tad strange if we assume Hank wrote the letter. We can guess that Bozzak told Hank the outline, and then Hank wrote the letter, but we are getting quite a list of ifs and maybes and could be's... It's much easier to just believe the official story and Ian is in some cell, waiting for a ransom.

Now for a different speculation...
Ian was told that his wife was a prisoner on the Western continent,
and went to break her out. He was partly successful, but ended up merely replacing her as prisoner. So now Ma will be meeting Haley and demanding she go rescue Dad.

[krossbow]

actually, if it were her father running a con, it would a VERY interesting contrast to her father's line in the past comic; that she can only trust family. Having her very father betray her, while others and strangers trust and support her, would be an interesting turn of events.

[Sewblon]

I never saw any evidence that the ransom note was legit either way. But if Tyrania did exist, it is gone now and Lord Tyrinar is likely dead which renders it moot.

[Jackson]

A letter is no proof. I want to remind you about one famous RL-letter the pope received in the 12th century - from someone who very probably does not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prester_John (the legend is actually pretty cool).

The pope even ANSWERED to that false letter and sent a messenger (who never returned, btw).

The letter itself "proofs" nothing as we cannot say if it was actually sent from the western continent from the room next to Haley's.

Well, here's the main difference between real life and fictional narrative: in real life, things just happen. That's it. They happen. In a fictional narrative, they happen for a reason. So you'd be better served using a fictional piece of counter-evidence than saying 'well here's something that happened in real life which somehow has bearing on this completely fictional narrative derived from one man's mind,' because that's just not how it works.