On navigation in the OOTS world

[Random832]

What good is a sextant going to be to Roy if he doesn't also have an accurate chronometer set to a standard reference meridian in order to find the longitude? He can get the accurate angle of the sun, moon, or any star in the sky, yet still won't know how far east or west he is. Or, put differently... what good is the inclination, if you don't have the time? :smallcool:

[Katana_Geldar]

If Roy knows anything about navigation, and from what he says about it I assume he does, then he's already solved this problem.

Is there a D&D answer for this?

[Shale]

That's easily remedied with simple magic, though. If the OotS world has a reference meridian, it stands to reason it has a clock somewhere, set to the time in that meridian, that serves as the gold standard for timekeeping. One Scry later, you know what time it is. Alternately, they might have somebody whose job it is to tell the exact time to people who cast Sending.

[factotum]

Pretty sure sextants have existed since long before there were accurate chronometers--basically you just head for the right latitude and then head east or west until you hit your destination. Since they know the Gate is somewhere on the continent, heading West from the eastern coast along the right line of latitude would lead them to it eventually.

[Skorj]

Knowing your lattitude is half the battle.

[Ron Miel]

If Roy knows anything about navigation, and from what he says about it I assume he does, then he's already solved this problem.

Whooooosh.

[Katana_Geldar]

Pretty sure sextants have existed since long before there were accurate chronometers--basically you just head for the right latitude and then head east or west until you hit your destination. Since they know the Gate is somewhere on the continent, heading West from the eastern coast along the right line of latitude would lead them to it eventually.

But what about longditude then?

[Shale]

What about it?

If you know you're on the right line of latitude, you can just start from one end of the landmass and move inward, and eventually you'll cross the correct line of longitude and be at the proper set of coordinates.

I kind of doubt that's what Roy has in mind, though, just because with that strategy you have to recognize what you're looking for when you find it, and they're looking for the illusionist's gate. Somehow I don't expect it's going to have a big neon sign.

[BatRobin]

Knowing your lattitude is half the battle.

G.I. JOE! :D

[Katana_Geldar]

What about it?

If you know you're on the right line of latitude, you can just start from one end of the landmass and move inward, and eventually you'll cross the correct line of longitude and be at the proper set of coordinates.

I kind of doubt that's what Roy has in mind, though, just because with that strategy you have to recognize what you're looking for when you find it, and they're looking for the illusionist's gate. Somehow I don't expect it's going to have a big neon sign.

As was said in Crayons of Time, it is surrounded by illusions.

[Porthos]

Mechanical Clocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock#Early_mechanical_clocks) existed long before sextants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant)* did in our world.

"But, Porthos," I hear you say," there aren't any mechanical clocks in the Core Rules of DnD."** "And you are right," I would reply.

But that's OK, as sextants aren't in the Core Rules either. :smalltongue:

OOTH, sextants can be found in the 3E Arms and Equipment Guide, as part of a Navagational Kit (it says it isn't useful on land, but adventueres are well known for thinking outside the box).

As for mechanical clocks, at least one can be seen in a clock tower in Origins. There might even be more instances, but that's the one that immediately leaps to mind. So the question then becomes: Are there smaller versions of Mechanical Clocks in OotSWorld? I.e. ones that can be carted around? Because, if so, then one could use that to help determine the longitude.

But even if there aren't any portable mechanical clocks, the time is still just one Sending spell away from being found out.

So if sextants are around in OotSWorld, and Lord Shojo gave Roy the location of Girard's Gate in coordinates, then it stands to reason that Roy will have some means of determining longititude.

Unless Rule of Funny/Plot defeats him, of course. :smallamused:

* Although astrolabes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariner%27s_astrolabe) and quadrants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_quadrant#Davis_quadrant) predate the sextant by a good long time as well.
** Water Clocks, OTTH, are in Core Rules. But they're hardly useful here. :smallwink:

[Yendor]

We've seen them count down to New Year's by seconds, so I think we can assume they have accurate timepieces.


But even if there aren't any portable mechanical clocks, the time is still just one Sending spell away from being found out.


"At the tone, the time will be ten... fifty... three... and ten... seconds... BEEP! ... At the tone, the time will be ten... fifty... three... and" <click!>

[Larkspur]

They may have accurate watches in their heads, along with a sense of their hit points and XP.

A lot of spells have exact casting times, and aren't round lengths sometimes counted in seconds? Having accurate timing is part of the game mechanics, so there's probably a master clock for the whole world that they can all unconsciously tap into.

Scrying for it would be kind of pointless, since one could simply scry for one's geographical position at that point. But I think it's in their heads.

[Acero]

didn't it say somewhere that Shojo gave Roy EXACT coordinates?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html

o. there it is!

[Shale]

Yes, but the question is how Roy will find out the exact coordinates of where he is at any given time, so he'll know when he's reached Girard's Gate.

[Katana_Geldar]

Look, this is really just bread and butter.

Roy has the coordinates and he knows something of navigation since he has to use a sextant and a map to find the location of the gate in the middle of the desert where there are no landmarks. Furthermore, he has not said he will have any problems with doing this, it was just a question of finding the materials.

He has presumably sovled the time problem, or he'd be looking for a way to get that done too along with the other errands he has to run in Sandsedge.

A better question we might be asking is how he learned navigation. I'd like to know as it seems an unlikely subject in his MBA at Bash University, given what we know of the place (which also had a clock, incidentally).

[factotum]

Mechanical Clocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock#Early_mechanical_clocks) existed long before sextants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant)* did in our world.


Maybe, but they weren't accurate, portable clocks that you could put on a ship in order to determine the time difference between local noon and the meridian. Those didn't appear until the late 18th century, long after sextants did.

[Katana_Geldar]

Those early clocks relied on pendulums, not very suitable for onboard a ship.

It's because they didn't have mechanical clocks on a ship that a lot of countries were accidentally "discovered".

[David Argall]

There are several ways to determine longitude. Using an accurate clock is simply a superior method. But if you had several hours to do the calculations, were lucky enough to observe some rare events and/or other ways, you could do the job with reasonable accuracy, at least some of the time.

This being a fantasy story, that is quite good enough. Roy will be able to find his way to precisely where he wants to go, unless the plot calls for him to have trouble.

[Ozymandias9]

If a navigational almanac is available, Roy can use the Lunar Distance Method.

Alternatively, if the issue is that accurate timepieces are too expensive or too bulky in the OOtS world, casting sending sending to an ally that has one at high noon local time would work for time based calculations (presuming that the ally can also have someone cast sending back to communicate the time on their end).

[Katana_Geldar]

Actually, it would work better the other way. If someone sent a sending to Roy when it was 12.00.

[whitelaughter]

You forget, all action take place in rounds and turns - since the PCs know the turn and how many rounds have passed, they know the time to within six seconds.

[kusje]

I'm completely lost.

Does anyone have some links on the navigation methods mentioned?

[Herald Alberich]

Alternatively, if the issue is that accurate timepieces are too expensive or too bulky in the OOtS world, casting sending sending to an ally that has one at high noon local time would work for time based calculations (presuming that the ally can also have someone cast sending back to communicate the time on their end).

Actually, though it's never been shown in strip, Sending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Sending.htm) works both ways. You send a 25 word message and get a 25 word reply.