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View Full Version : How much does LA reduce a fullcaster? [3.5e]



Guancyto
2009-09-23, 12:29 AM
Aight!

We all know that LA races, especially high LA races, are a suboptimal choice for a full caster. But just how much closer to his unoptimized companions will being an LA race bring him?

Would, for instance, a Drow Wizard be put closer to a Warblade (let's say ECL 10), or is he still GOD minus a couple of levels? He'd still have some fantastic encounter-enders, but he'd get less of them and no access to the new level of spells while his fellows would be at the cutting edge of maneuvers.

On the same note, would an LA 2 ToB class be on par with a Core Fighter or archery Ranger? What about an LA 4 one?

Is this the wrong approach or a decent way of not overpowering encounters?

Godskook
2009-09-23, 12:34 AM
High LA results in low HP, which means easily killed, on top of weaker abilities than you're 'supposed' to have. Can we say dead wizard? Racial HD, on the other hand, might be an interesting way to balance tiers out, since HP growth still happens.

Tyndmyr
2009-09-23, 12:35 AM
Depends on the race. Realistically, the most you can get from a pretty good race is stats, perhaps natural flight, and some abilities. The flight and abilities can be compensated for via spells in short order, so tend not to actually be important unless they are particularly unique/hard to get/powerful. Immunities can be big.

Stats...meh. Stats are great, but stats get improved by leveling, too, and slowing caster progression is *huge*.

Honestly, Id never play a main caster with a level adjust higher than +1, unless I was allowed some mechanism to mostly negate the actual cost.

The big problem is that melee and casters just advance differently. A warblade compared to a wiz at low levels is pretty darn powerful, it just reverses later. Giving one type of class a fat LA is only going to change the point at which the two switch places, not the actual power curves themselves.

PhoenixRivers
2009-09-23, 12:40 AM
Also, LA +2 is feasible with LA Buyoff.

Akal Saris
2009-09-23, 08:23 AM
I'd guesstimate that each LA or racial HD bumps a full caster down a tier, so that a wizard with a +1 LA is about as good as a sorcerer overall, or +2 LA is on par with a warblade roughly, and +3 LA is somewhere in the same district as a fighter (absolutely horrible at ECL 5, but still gets 9th level spells in the end).

I don't think it'd be the best way to balance such a character, given that it makes the class's relative weakness at the beginning more pronounced, and only delays their domination a few levels instead of mitigating it. But it's an option.

Person_Man
2009-09-23, 09:01 AM
Depends on the power level and play style of your party. I once played a strait Kobold Scout in a party with a Cleric, Psychic Warrior, Range, Warlock, and a Wizard. Yet somehow I was the most deadly PC, because the other players didn't bother to optimize (even the in the slightest). On paper, giving up caster levels is almost always a bad idea, and will almost always result in a weaker build. But if the other party members have a weak play style, then who cares.