A western-RPG style Fire Emblem?

[Tom_Violence]

Fire Emblem's great an all, and it's currently one of my favourite games. But I do have a few problems with it that prevent it from being a potential favourite for all time. Chief among these is the random character advancement. I find it leads to too much finger-crossing and/or relentless reloading.

So what I'm wondering is is there a western-style equivalent? One with a little more emphasis and control over classes and stats, but retaining the large party size and tactical gameplay?

It's a long shot, I know, but anyone got any ideas?

[Ashtar]

I don't know of any, but 4e would make a wonderful system for such a game. *hint* *hint*

[Oslecamo]

No it wouldn't. 4e is heavily based on multiple spammable powers and lots of area effects and status conditions.

Fire emblem hardly has any area effect or status condition, and your attacks are restricted to the weapons you have, wich wear down and eventually breack with use. They're pretty much oposite philosophies besides being both tactical games.

[Grey Paladin]

Randomization is generally a western-RPG trope, just so you know.

EDIT: SRPGs are not limited to Fire Emblem - Final Fantasy Tactics/Advance and a whole lot of other games are pretty similar to 4e.

[SuperFish]

Step 1) Play Path of Radiance
Step 2) Choose "Fixed Mode"
Step 3) ????
Step 4) You know the drill.

[Zevox]

EDIT: SRPGs are not limited to Fire Emblem - Final Fantasy Tactics/Advance and a whole lot of other games are pretty similar to 4e.
Tactical RPGs are pretty much all Japan-made, though. Fire Emblem, Disgaea, Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, Shining Force - every example of the genre I know of is Japan-made. Largely because the genre just has not become all that popular in North America. Western-made games tend to be shooters, sports, and action games predominantly, and western RPGs tend to be action RPGs more often than even turn-based ones, much less tactical ones.

Zevox

[Grey Paladin]

This is mostly true today, but the past is very different. the gold-box games mostly predate Fire Emblem (the first 'pure' SRPG) and play like one within combat.

You could classify a significant amount of Bioware games (Baldur's Gate series, Icewind Dale series, Dragon Age) as Real-time Tactical RPGs - Baldur's Gate could even be played in an entirely turn-based format using Triggers for rounds.

The turn-based genre was born to the west with Wizardry, Ultima, Might&Magic and their ilk but today most non-action RPGs are made in the east following the tradition of Final Fantasy. Only Bioware (Although they did make Mass Effect..) and Obsidian (Can't program, main writer is depressed, but churns out awesome stuff every few years like Planescape: Torment) and Altus (Despite being Eastern) generally keep with the Western tradition.

Tabletop-wise, most 4e-esque wargames/RPGs are still produced in the west.

[Tengu_temp]

You could try Jagged Alliance 2 - it's also a tactical RPG, but closer to a strategy game with RPG elements than the other way around, and it's much more open - instead of missions you have a map where you secure territories as you choose, you also choose which characters to hire, and other stuff like that. And it's set in modern times, not a fantasy world, so it's almost exclusively long range, firearm combat.

[chiasaur11]

You could try Jagged Alliance 2 - it's also a tactical RPG, but closer to a strategy game with RPG elements than the other way around, and it's much more open - instead of missions you have a map where you secure territories as you choose, you also choose which characters to hire, and other stuff like that. And it's set in modern times, not a fantasy world, so it's almost exclusively long range, firearm combat.

Well, on the same list you've got X-Com.

Level up soldiers with controllable growths, and permadeath. Good clean fun.

[Tengu_temp]

JA2 has much more personified characters than X-Com's randomly created mooks, though, as well as more RPG elements such as quests, talking with NPCs, progressing plot and similar stuff. X-Com is a 100% strategy game. But yeah, it's worth checking out too, it's a great classic.

[Ziren]

You might want to check out Vandal Hearts.

[warty goblin]

There's lots of turn based western strategy games with persistant units. They usually aren't exactly RPGs, since they minimize inventories and character interaction, but they can certainly be tactical.

I recommend looking at Elven Legacy. Units persist from mission to mission and gain experience. Every level allows you to choose one of three perks for the unit, which allows for a good amount of customization. What perks are available depend on the level and the unit.

You can capture artifacts from various sights on a map, and there's something of an inventory system. Heroes can carry three items, and regular units one. Most of these give the unit the ability to cast some sort of spell, which can come in mighty handy.

I should mention that besides for heroes and some special units like dragons or siege engines, units actually represent a much larger force- so a single unit of elven archers is actually ten soldiers. Goblins, and other weaker enemy types can have units of something like twenty or thirty soldiers.

The combat is very tactical. Units can attack and move in a turn- in any order. I like this feature, as it allows for fighting retreats. Terrain is of absolute importance. Securing a river crossing is a serious problem, even against inferior forces. Morale is also very important, if enough damage is done to a unit it will route, which seriously reduces its combat strength and cause it to move away from whatever has attacked it. Exploiting this is key to victory.

Plus, the story is actually pretty good. Definitely a new angle on elves.

[Tom_Violence]

Elven Legacy looks like it would be perfect (and I think Paradox are slowly becoming one of my favourite developers), but sadly this ol' hunk o' junk will need an upgrade before I can play. Which depressingly means that I'm actually so far behind the times that I can't even play turn-based strategy games. Ouch.

So mayhaps for now I shall do what I should've done decades ago and investigate Jagged Alliance 2.

[warty goblin]

Elven Legacy looks like it would be perfect (and I think Paradox are slowly becoming one of my favourite developers), but sadly this ol' hunk o' junk will need an upgrade before I can play. Which depressingly means that I'm actually so far behind the times that I can't even play turn-based strategy games. Ouch.

So mayhaps for now I shall do what I should've done decades ago and investigate Jagged Alliance 2.

Fortunately the sorts of upgrades you need for a game like Elven Legacy should be pretty cheap anymore, even if you need to rebuild the entire ol' hunk' o' junk. If you just need a graphics card, you could probably get away with spending about $75.

I should mention that the game, even after the patch, has a rather annoying bug that causes a CTD about 50% of the time when attacking with airships. It'd be more annoying, but the game autosaves at the beginning of each turn, so I've never lost more than a few minutes progress, but it is annoying as snot.

Also yes, at some point that happened. Actually I could extend it to pretty much the entirety of Eastern Europe. They just seem to 'get' PC gaming so much better than about 90% of western developers anymore.

[Anteros]

It's not western, but I think you'd like Tactics Ogre. Good plot, persistent units where you control their growth by picking their classes, 30 unit limit with 10+ participating in each battle, and permanent death.

It's doesn't have the anime style of fire emblem, but other than that it's exactly what you're looking for.

[Smight]

Fantasy general (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_General)