High powered homebrew gestalt madness!

[rypt]

Hey guys!

I'm building a character for a PbP campaign on another board that has some interesting houserules and I'm looking for some feedback.

Rules:
1. It is gestalt, obviously. :smalltongue:
2. Any creature with racial HD and a level adjustment may ignore the level adjustment.
3. Two templates may be added to the character for free (They MUST have a "Level Adjustment" entry in their description, no backsolving from sample creatures).
4. Dragon Magazine material is conditionally allowed.
5. Starting ECL 12
6. Taking levels in a casting class progresses any corresponding innate casting from your base race.

What I'm working on right now is a Tome Dragon (Dragon Mag. 343), which is a dragon with accelerated casting progression. At 3HD, it casts as a 3rd level sorcerer. At 6HD, it casts as a 5th level sorcerer. Tome Dragons only know all Conjuration and Divination sorcerer spells. At 6HD, they gain the ability to reduce the metamagic cost of a single spell by 1, once per round.

Combine this with loredrake (+2 sorcerer levels for a true dragon) from Dragons of Eberron, and the caster levels become 5th level and 7th at 3HD and 6HD, respectively.

In Dragon Mag. 313 is the Spellhoarding "dragon psychosis" which allows a dragon to cast as a wizard instead of a sorcerer and switches their primary casting attribute to intelligence.

After the racial HD of tome dragon, I would continue to take full casting classes as either a sorcerer, or a wizard (if i took Spellhoarding).

Sooo...
Is the loss of a caster level going from 3HD to 6HD (CL=HD+2 vs. CL=HD+1) worth the metamagic reducing effect?

Also, templates that increase intelligence are few and far between, whereas template that increase charisma are widely available. Is it worth it to switch to wizard casting considering the opportunity to start with an absurd base charisma? Are there templates I've missed that would be particularly helpful for the Spellhoarding wizardly dragon?

[Mongoose87]

What is the other side of your Gestalt?

[rypt]

What is the other side of your Gestalt?

I'm not entirely sure yet. I think most, if not all of my PrCs will be on the dragon side. If I stuck with the sorcerer based casting, I was thinkin trying to build on the charisma synergy with paladin, maybe hexblade for mettle and monk for evasion and bonus feats.

If I went with wizard casting, I was looking into factotum for intelligence synergy and extra standard actions.

[PinkysBrain]

Sylph will give you even better casting, HD+4 (Monster Manual 2 has a 3.5 update).

[rypt]

Sylph will give you even better casting, HD+4 (Monster Manual 2 has a 3.5 update).

Yea there were a few options that were slightly more effective, but the DM said no to stuff in MMII and the flavor of being a dragon is way too cool for the campaign setting.

[Indon]

Sooo...
Is the loss of a caster level going from 3HD to 6HD (CL=HD+2 vs. CL=HD+1) worth the metamagic reducing effect?

Would you be allowed to take a couple Sorceror/Wizard casting levels parallel to your RHD progression to make up for it?

[rypt]

Would you be allowed to take a couple Sorceror/Wizard casting levels parallel to your RHD progression to make up for it?

No, since either situation is already advantageous, its just that one is slightly more advantageous.

[PinkysBrain]

Yea there were a few options that were slightly more effective, but the DM said no to stuff in MMII and the flavor of being a dragon is way too cool for the campaign setting.
Being a real dragon is cool but you're small ... you're more cute than cool :) Personally I'd play a Trumpet Archon on one side.

[rypt]

Being a real dragon is cool but you're small ... you're more cute than cool :)

GASP! My one gripe with the idea! You are cruel, sir! :smalltongue:

I feel like half the people applying for the game are going to try trumpet archons. I'm almost positive I'd be the only dragon.

[vampire2948]

If you can ignore LA, then why aren't you playing an astral deva?

Or did I get it wrong.


EDIT : Oh, they're CL 14, is that why? Probably ^_^

[rypt]

Astral Devas have spell like abliities, but no caster progression.

[PinkysBrain]

Anyway ... Dragon, so ... Dracolich?

Dracolich has a rather uncommon form of paralyzing touch, it works on _every_ physical attack. Combine that with bloodwind and wraithstrike and anything not immune to paralysis is dead meat.

[rypt]

Interesting...I'll keep that in mind. The campaign is almost entirely centered around killing undead though, so I'm not sure being undead myself would fly.

[KellKheraptis]

Holy crap...that is an amazing template :D Another race to look into is the Bozak (1:1 sorcerer progression, Dragon type, d12 HD, 6+Int skills, medium, all good saves, good BAB) from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Go straight racial HD up one side, and then pure class features up the other. Rogue 2/Warblade 2/Monk 2/Incantatrix 6 would get you all the goodies of Incantatrix, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion, SA, a few maneuvers, an AC bonus from another stat, and finally a nice boost to Reflex saves from Battle Clarity. On top of full Wizard and BAB progression on the racial side. Also, if it's pertinent, they are LA +3, and initially 4 HD with 4 levels of sorcerer spellcasting. Finally, I would upgrade your wings (Dragonborn maybe, or Improved Dragon Wings and Dragonborn for the breath weapon) and take flyby attack, as it's infinitely useful for casting on the run (fly).

[rypt]

Hmm, I'll make a note about Bozaks. I'm not sure how the DM feels about Dragonlance stuff, but hes been reasonably open so far.

[Jack_Simth]

Starting ECL 12, 2 free templates. Gestalt, ignore LA on things with RHD.

Yikes.

A Nymph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm) has 6 racial hit dice, and casts as a Druid-7. Also gets Charisma to both AC (Deflection) and saves (untyped). Plus has a few handy at-will abilities, and a few handy spell-likes. You want to focus on Charisma, though, so you mostly want to ignore the Nymph Druid spells. Add Half Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) as your first free template to get the Dragon type, and Ghost (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm) or Phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) as your second free template, and you've got quite the powerhouse. Tack on three levels of Monk (taking Ascetic Mage from Complete Adventurer) and three levels of Hexblade gives you Charisma to AC a second time, Charisma to saves (vs. spells) again, plus Evasion and Mettle.

Then you take Sorcerer on the primary side.

Phrenic Half-Dragon Nymph/Monk-3/Hexblade-3//Sorcerer-12:
+14 Racial Charisma
12th level Sorcerer spellcasting.
Charisma to AC (Deflection)
Charisma to AC (Monk, as a Monk-12 due to Ascetic Mage)
Charisma to Saves (Untyped)
Charisma to Saves again (vs. spells and spell-likes)
Evasion
Mettle
A nice listing of spell-like and psi-like abilities.
7th level Druid casting (for Reincarnate)

Ghost Half-Dragon Nymph/Monk-3/Hexblade-3//Sorcerer-12:
+14 Racial Charisma
12th level Sorcerer spellcasting.
Charisma to AC (Deflection - both on the material and on the Ethereal)
Charisma to AC (Monk, as a Monk-12 due to Ascetic Mage)
Charisma to Saves (Untyped)
Charisma to Saves again (vs. spells and spell-likes)
Evasion
Mettle
A nice listing of spell-like and Supernatural abilities.
Note: If you go the Ghost route, you'll want to pick up some way to get to the material plane other than with Manifestation (Shadow Walk is fine), so you can re-equip (potentially, the Dimensional Reach reserve feat can also cover this).

If you can work the Pride domain power in there (the Sorcerer Alternate Class Feature from Complete Champion will do it, if you find a deity that's close enough on alignment and grants the Pride domain), you pretty much stop failing saves, and pretty much stop getting hit. And anything you save against, you ignore. Future planning is to take more Sorcerer levels on the Sorcerer side, and some PrC (doesn't much matter what - the point of the PrC is to help avoid XP penalties).

[rypt]

Starting ECL 12, 2 free templates. Gestalt, ignore LA on things with RHD.

Yikes.

A Nymph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm) has 6 racial hit dice, and casts as a Druid-7. Also gets Charisma to both AC (Deflection) and saves (untyped). Plus has a few handy at-will abilities, and a few handy spell-likes. You want to focus on Charisma, though, so you mostly want to ignore the Nymph Druid spells. Add Half Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) as your first free template to get the Dragon type, and Ghost (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm) or Phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) as your second free template, and you've got quite the powerhouse. Tack on three levels of Monk (taking Ascetic Mage from Complete Adventurer) and three levels of Hexblade gives you Charisma to AC a second time, Charisma to saves (vs. spells) again, plus Evasion and Mettle.

Then you take Sorcerer on the primary side.

Phrenic Half-Dragon Nymph/Monk-3/Hexblade-3//Sorcerer-12:
+14 Racial Charisma
12th level Sorcerer spellcasting.
Charisma to AC (Deflection)
Charisma to AC (Monk, as a Monk-12 due to Ascetic Mage)
Charisma to Saves (Untyped)
Charisma to Saves again (vs. spells and spell-likes)
Evasion
Mettle
A nice listing of spell-like and psi-like abilities.
7th level Druid casting (for Reincarnate)

Ghost Half-Dragon Nymph/Monk-3/Hexblade-3//Sorcerer-12:
+14 Racial Charisma
12th level Sorcerer spellcasting.
Charisma to AC (Deflection - both on the material and on the Ethereal)
Charisma to AC (Monk, as a Monk-12 due to Ascetic Mage)
Charisma to Saves (Untyped)
Charisma to Saves again (vs. spells and spell-likes)
Evasion
Mettle
A nice listing of spell-like and Supernatural abilities.
Note: If you go the Ghost route, you'll want to pick up some way to get to the material plane other than with Manifestation (Shadow Walk is fine), so you can re-equip (potentially, the Dimensional Reach reserve feat can also cover this).

If you can work the Pride domain power in there (the Sorcerer Alternate Class Feature from Complete Champion will do it, if you find a deity that's close enough on alignment and grants the Pride domain), you pretty much stop failing saves, and pretty much stop getting hit. And anything you save against, you ignore. Future planning is to take more Sorcerer levels on the Sorcerer side, and some PrC (doesn't much matter what - the point of the PrC is to help avoid XP penalties).

Yea, I've been consulting the X stat to Y bonus thread and there is definitely a lot you can do with CHA synergy in gestalt. I'm not sure RPing a Nympth is something I'm looking to do, however. :smalltongue:

[Jack_Simth]

Yea, I've been consulting the X stat to Y bonus thread and there is definitely a lot you can do with CHA synergy in gestalt. I'm not sure RPing a Nympth is something I'm looking to do, however. :smalltongue:

You could try a Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) from Underdark, instead. 7 hit dice instead of 6, casts as a Bard-7 instead of a Druid-7, and doesn't have quite as good of a Charisma bonus, but you get the same Unearthly Grace ... and a Fly speed, which is usually better than a Swim speed.