Elan's prophecy

[AdamSmasher]

I don't know if anyone else has said this before, but I keep seeing people saying that we know the story will work out just fine because Elan's prophecy was that "He would get a happy ending"

But what if we take that by the other meaning of "Happy Ending"?

With Haley and Elan's reunion, that would mean Elan's prophecy has already come true.

[Silverraptor]

He said "story", so that means at the end of the comic.

[Cleverdan22]

No, it hasn't already become true. Because think about how Elan would classify a happy ending. It doesn't just mean "Just being happy temporarily." It most likely adheres to "And they lived happily ever after." While we know that Durkon, Belkar, and possibly V will die in or before the end, Elan doesn't necessarily need them for a happy ending. Roy is the hero of the story, and is unlikely to die unhappy with his blood oath unfulfilled, and Haley most likely shouldn't die as I can't see Elan very happy after that. Basically, these guys are on a noble quest, and it would be kinda unsatisfying if they didn't complete it.

[multilis]

... Basically, these guys are on a noble quest, and it would be kinda unsatisfying if they didn't complete it.Ala "Saving Private Ryan", they may die completing the quest.

As well, possible they may *fail* or mission change, and yet it doesn't matter as Snarl situation is not as expected.

[fangthane]

Here's an example of a happy ending for Elan... :)


He gets a big slow-mo splash page as he dives toward Haley, intercepting the snarl attack intended for her, and dies in her arms moments later. Tell me he wouldn't be happy saving her life and doing a stereotypical dramatic scene to the hilt that way. You can't, and you know why? Because you know as well as I do that Elan doesn't need to survive to get a happy ending. For him, at least. In fact, I think it's easier to get him a happy ending if there's not so much "ever after" to consider.

[Cleverdan22]

Here's an example of a happy ending for Elan... :)


He gets a big slow-mo splash page as he dives toward Haley, intercepting the snarl attack intended for her, and dies in her arms moments later. Tell me he wouldn't be happy saving her life and doing a stereotypical dramatic scene to the hilt that way. You can't, and you know why? Because you know as well as I do that Elan doesn't need to survive to get a happy ending. For him, at least. In fact, I think it's easier to get him a happy ending if there's not so much "ever after" to consider.


Why did you put that in spoiler tags?

Also, sure I can agree with you on this, the only thing is that I think he would at least want his friends to be alive once it was all over. Yours does cover Haley, but I'd say his best friend in the whole wide world/surrogate father/brother figure would need to be saved as well. :smallbiggrin:

[The Dark Fiddler]

Has anyone guessed that his happy ending is might be

meeting up/reconciling with friends/family in the afterlife?

[krossbow]

obviously he will put on a helm of extreme realignment, become an omnicidal maniac and kill everyone. :smalltongue:

[Katana_Geldar]

I always thought "happily ever after" meant

Elan and Haley riding off into the sunsey

[BatRobin]

Here's an example of a happy ending for Elan... :)


He gets a big slow-mo splash page as he dives toward Haley, intercepting the snarl attack intended for her, and dies in her arms moments later. Tell me he wouldn't be happy saving her life and doing a stereotypical dramatic scene to the hilt that way. You can't, and you know why? Because you know as well as I do that Elan doesn't need to survive to get a happy ending. For him, at least. In fact, I think it's easier to get him a happy ending if there's not so much "ever after" to consider.


That's...really actually likely.

[Kish]

No, it's not. Elan is a bard. He knows that if the hero dies, that's a sad ending, definitionally. Whether it would actually make him happy or sad is almost irrelevant.

Katana_Geldar has it right.

[Bibliomancer]

No, it's not. Elan is a bard. He knows that if the hero dies, that's a sad ending, definitionally. Whether it would actually make him happy or sad is almost irrelevant.

Katana_Geldar has it right.

But is he the hero? I think he knows in his heart of bardic hearts that this story's main character is Roy, and that he's the conscience/comic relief/mauve shirt.

[krossbow]

But is he the hero? I think he knows in his heart of bardic hearts that this story's main character is Roy, and that he's the conscience/comic relief/mauve shirt.

to quote the end of final fantasy 12

"actually... i think your more of a... supporting character"
"fran, please."

[Lycan 01]

Elan would consider dying to save Haley a sad ending, because then Haley would be forced to live her life without him. That's not a happy ending - that's friggin' depressing. :smalleek:

I honestly see a happy ending for them as a wedding scene, or them riding off into the sunset. Have you seen The Princess Bride? Yeah, THAT sort of ending...

[Katana_Geldar]

If anyone's going to have a sacrifice scene, I have the feeling it's going to be Roy. He's that kinda guy, and it may even be to save Elan.

Think of the irony there.

[Bogardan_Mage]

He said "story", so that means at the end of the comic.
It doesn't have to mean the end of the comic (although it probably does). It could just mean the end of an arc, although that would already have happened.

[Turkish Delight]

I'm not sure how any real meaning can be read into the prophecy that Elan will have a 'happy ending' in a universe where good people go on to live in Paradise forever when they die. For all we know, he could spend his last earthly hours in excruciating pain helplessly watching as his friends and loves ones are all devoured by a pack of wild badgers and, when he finally receives his mercy killing, he would have a 'happy ending' forever in Heaven with all the aforementioned friends and loved ones waiting for him.

Mind, the Giant would have to really be indulging his inner sadist to go with that one, but it's possible.

It doesn't even necessarily mean the Snarl won't unmake everything, depending on whether the Snarl's actions also took out all those petitioners who had already died and gone to the afterlife in the first world.

[Katana_Geldar]

He did specifically say though that the ending is one that Elan will be happy with.

[Turkish Delight]

He did specifically say though that the ending is one that Elan will be happy with.

No matter how horrific the events prior to your gruesome, agonizing death, wouldn't you be pretty happy living in eternal paradise with all your friends and loved ones? Oh, sure, you might take a while to get over it and you'd probably have traumatic flashbacks of the badgers and their gleaming, pitiless eyes and razor sharp teeth. But after awhile you've got your perpetual happy ending.

[daggaz]

I don't know if anyone else has said this before, but I keep seeing people saying that we know the story will work out just fine because Elan's prophecy was that "He would get a happy ending"

But what if we take that by the other meaning of "Happy Ending"?

With Haley and Elan's reunion, that would mean Elan's prophecy has already come true.

Why do I feel like Im the only one who got the OP's joke (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/11/19/)? :smallamused:

[Ancalagon]

No matter how horrific the events prior to your gruesome, agonizing death, wouldn't you be pretty happy living in eternal paradise with all your friends and loved ones? Oh, sure, you might take a while to get over it and you'd probably have traumatic flashbacks of the badgers and their gleaming, pitiless eyes and razor sharp teeth. But after awhile you've got your perpetual happy ending.

Elan's happy ending will be a full, blown, bardic cliche-happy-ending. Not just a "happy" ending, but a real "happy ending". One as in stories and stuff (that's what he wanted to know and that is the answer he got).

In this prophecy, I find the "at least" much more interesting. As this means some of the order will get no happy ending (and I think that means "in no way"). A candidate would be Belkar, a second Vaarsuvius, Roy is probably going for the "sacrifice", which would make his ending "happy", but not a "happy ending".

Do you get the different between a "happy" ending and a "happy ending"? (A "happy ending" will also be a "happy ending", but a "happy ending" does not have to be a "happy ending".
Elan is going for the real happy ending.

[Turkish Delight]

Elan's happy ending will be a full, blown, bardic cliche-happy-ending. Not just a "happy" ending, but a real "happy ending". One as in stories and stuff (that's what he wanted to know and that is the answer he got).

That's what he wanted to know, of course. Whether that's what he got is unknown, given the source. The Oracle has proven on several occasions that he gives you the answer to the question you asked, not necessarily what you actually wanted to know when you asked it. He's a literal genie, with all the associated unintended interpretations, though not so much the wish giving.

The question: "Will this story have a happy ending?"

The answer: "Yes -- for you at least."

This could mean 'happy' in your interpretation, but there is nothing to prevent the Oracle from taking it in the less stereotypically 'good' way I outlined. It's a world where Chaotic Good people go to Heaven. Strictly speaking, ALL Good people get a happy ending, by definition. Therefore, if you really want to boil it down, the prophecy is empty.

I doubt very much this will be the way the Giant takes it, of course, unless deep down his heart is shriveled and black and without pity. I suppose as a long-time DM that's a distinct possibility, but I don't see it happening. Just noting that it isn't ruled out.

[Ancalagon]

It'll be a "happy ending", metaphorical sunset included.

[Coliumbos]

I think it'd be like this...

Snarl destroys the universe, or destroys the majority. The gods defeat Snarl by making a third world.

We join the OotS as they journey back into the scenes of OotS #1. Elan probably stops and says something about Deja Vu.

Best. Ending. Evar.

[Turkish Delight]

I think it'd be like this...

Snarl destroys the universe, or destroys the majority. The gods defeat Snarl by making a third world.

We join the OotS as they journey back into the scenes of OotS #1. Elan probably stops and says something about Deja Vu.

Best. Ending. Evar.

Or the Snarl is unleashed, turns everyone into Tang, and the last strip features the only two remaining people in the world, with Elan strangling Haley on a beach.

....

Nah, too anime. And I don't think the Giant has come to hate us quite that much as of yet.

[daggaz]

*Groans* Ok, Ill just say it out loud then. The OP is referring to the fact that "happy ending" is a euphanism for receiving sexual pleasure at the end of a massage. You go to a massage parlor, you pay a little extra, and you get a "happy ending."

[Turkish Delight]

*Groans* Ok, Ill just say it out loud then. The OP is referring to the fact that "happy ending" is a euphanism for receiving sexual pleasure at the end of a massage. You go to a massage parlor, you pay a little extra, and you get a "happy ending."

We get it. Or at least I got it. We just drifted off into other stuff, as the board is wont to do.

[Kish]

Why do I feel like Im the only one who got the OP's joke (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/11/19/)? :smallamused:
You're not the only one who got it, just the only one who wanted it. The rest of us sold it on eBay.

[Jackson]

Wait, there were buyers for it on e-bay? I just threw mine on the street.

I didn't really want to respond to the OP's joke, because it's a bit confused, in that 'happy ending' isn't a catch-all term for an orgasm but rather the specific orgasm gotten at the end of a massage at a particular type of massage parlor, which would make it confusing if Elan had gotten one from Haley. Hence the discarding of said joke.

I don't think living in Heaven as a failure really qualifies as a happy ending. Just because the scene is set for you to be happy doesn't mean you'll be able to be happy. Also, I think 'will this story have a happy ending?' (rather than, say, 'will this all end well?') implies that it will be able to be told in such a way that the ending is happy, and 'and then they were all devoured by a pack of wild badgers and Elan was finally put out of his misery, and then went on to heaven where some of his friends were' is not that. Neither is 'and then Elan was completely unmade and his soul destroyed, leaving Haley without the one person in the world for whom she'd managed to overcome her crippling neuroses, to live out the rest of her life alone.'

Finally, as for the whole 'Elan isn't the hero' thing: if the works of Joss Whedon have taught us anything it should be that audiences take it even harder when a likable side character who is often used for comic relief is killed than they would have if the hero had died under similar circumstances.

[Turkish Delight]

I don't think living in Heaven as a failure really qualifies as a happy ending. Just because the scene is set for you to be happy doesn't mean you'll be able to be happy.

You'd be surprised how much you can get over when you're literally living in bliss for eternity. I'm guessing the sting of failure in the material world wears off after the first few millenia, and Elan did ask about the 'ending' to an undefined 'story', so if he ever ends up happy the Oracle was technically correct.


Also, I think 'will this story have a happy ending?' (rather than, say, 'will this all end well?') implies that it will be able to be told in such a way that the ending is happy, and 'and then they were all devoured by a pack of wild badgers and Elan was finally put out of his misery, and then went on to heaven where some of his friends were' is not that.

Well, yeah, that would certainly be the traditional way to interpret it. But if it pans out in the more 'downer' way I've outlined, the qualifications for 'happy ending' have still been met, again technically. Elan asked a very loose, poorly defined question, directed towards a source who has a proven history of answering questions as they are asked rather than as they were intended to be taken. That leaves threads of possibility dangling everywhere, ultimately making the prophecy kind of meaningless.


Neither is 'and then Elan was completely unmade and his soul destroyed, leaving Haley without the one person in the world for whom she'd managed to overcome her crippling neuroses, to live out the rest of her life alone.'

This I agree with. The one thing we can probably say with conviction is that Elan will NOT be unmade by the Snarl, as that isn't happy in either the short or the long term, in the OotS world or any other...unless Elan is some kind of closet Nihilist or something.

[Lkctgo]

But is he the hero? I think he knows in his heart of bardic hearts that this story's main character is Roy, and that he's the conscience/comic relief/mauve shirt.

Check every single book, movie and tv shows you have ever watched. How many times does the COMIC RELIEF die? Maybe if he were the hero there would be more chance of his death. Heh.

[Kirby]

Why can't Elan, Roy, and the rest of the Oots just have a great life at the end of this comic! I mean, does he really have to die?

[Kaytara]

I don't know if anyone else has said this before, but I keep seeing people saying that we know the story will work out just fine because Elan's prophecy was that "He would get a happy ending"


I presume the reason people keep saying that the story will work out fine is not that it's an interpretation of one meaning of "happy ending", but because we have Rich's word on it. In the War and XPs commentary, he specifically says that the happy ending part was meant to reassure people when it seemed that the comic was getting rather dark, what with predictions about two character deaths already...