increasing fort saves as a caster?

[Choco]

Was just wondering if there were any good ways to get a decent fort save as a caster (other than a high con score, the +2 fort feat, and cloak of resistance). Cheesy feats welcome, like maybe something that bases fort saves off of another stat.

Also, if you have a quarterstaff with the defending ability on both ends (or dual-wielding defending weapons) you can apply both of those as a bonus to your AC right?

[Talya]

Was just wondering if there were any good ways to get a decent fort save as a caster (other than a high con score, the +2 fort feat, and cloak of resistance). Cheesy feats welcome, like maybe something that bases fort saves off of another stat.


A few arcane caster-advancing PRCs have a high fort save.

[JeenLeen]

War Wizard of Cormyr (Faerun, I believe) has good Fort and Will saves. As does Blood Magus.

If you can afford the hits to caster level, a dip into Incarnate gives you a +2 and one of the soulmelds gives you an Enhancement bonus to Fort saves equal to essentia invested. I forget if the Incarnum/arcane caster dual-progression PrC had good Fort saves.

An elven substition level from Races of the Wild increases the Fort bonus you can get from a familiar.

All of these are or may be sub-optimal, I admit.



With Defending weapons, there's some debate, but it seems that it would stack. There's a weapon augment that works the same except you add the +x to saves instead of AC, but I forget what it's called. It's in Magic Item Compedium, IIRC. I think "Mage" is in the name, with the connotation of it messes up mages trying to make you fail saves.

[Melamoto]

Shadowcaster from ToM is a Base Caster class with good Fort saves, if that counts.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

A few arcane caster-advancing PRCs have a high fort save.

Mindbender

[Gorbash]

I have a wizard with a Fort save higher than the party barbarian's, it's really easy actually.

First of all, get a Rat familiar. That's +2 right there.
Spells Greater Resistance and Superior Resistance grant +3 and +6 respectively for 24h.
Be a gnome.
Also, Earth Dreamer prestige class has a good fort save.

[Talya]

Mindbender

Heartwarder, too.

[Gorbash]

Although, aside from the 1st lvl, Mindbender sucks. Earth Dreamer and Heartwarder are actually pretty ok.

[Keld Denar]

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils...

What? If you use Immediate Warding + Purple Ward, you block off all LoE, eliminating the need to make the fort save in the first place!!!

What? Don't look at me like that!!!!

</3

[Choco]

Ah, so now I know that other than what I have already mentioned, my only other options are prestige class, familiar, race selection, and spells. That and the +x to saves JeenLeen mentioned, perhaps a quarterstaff with one end adding +x to AC and the other +x to saves would work, provided the saves bonuses stack with those provided by cloak of resistance...

I was looking into a 1-level dip in Mindbender already, but I have not heard of the Earth Dreamer and Heartwarder PrC's yet, so I'll have to check those out. The more dips, the better my overall saves after all!

[sadi]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm

Can get +1 fort if you're willing to have a -1 to ref or will, or +2 if you take both.

[Talya]

Although, aside from the 1st lvl, Mindbender sucks.

That first level is not a bad dip, and boosts your fort save nicely if you're not using fractional saves.

[Darkfire]

Take Martial Study (ToB p31) at 6th-level or later to pick up the 3rd-level Diamond Mind manoeuvre Mind Over Body to make a Concentration check in place of a Fort save once per encounter. You can't auto-fail on a 1 and you're Concentration will scale much faster than your saves (providing you're willing to put ranks into it).

[olentu]

On a similar note I believe that there is a headband in the magic item compendium that does the whole concentration instead of fort once a day.

[stenver]

Spells Greater Resistance and Superior Resistance grant +3 and +6 respectively for 24h.


I dont think those 2 stack

[Eldariel]

I dont think those 2 stack

Indeed; you use Greater until you get Fubarior.

[Person_Man]

Nightcloak (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a): Int to all Saves.

Ruin Delver's Fortune (Spell Comp pg 178): Bard/Wiz/Sorc 4: Gain your Cha bonus to one Save of your choice (plus a minor immunity) or temp hit points as an Immediate Action. Lasts 1d4 rounds.

Impure Prince (Magic of Eberron pg 74): Replaces Con with Wis for Fort Save. You also get 50% fortification, a symbiot, and a few other minor perks, but lose a caster level or two.

Mind Over Body maneuver (Tome of Battle). As already noted, it's easy to boost Concentration checks, and you can get this via Martial Maneuver feat. Be wary that it's a Immediate Action, and you can essentially only use it once per combat. This makes it mostly worthless against Poison Fort Saves, which tend to come in batches (ie, when a poisonous enemy attacks you multiple times per round).

[Random832]

That first level is not a bad dip, and boosts your fort save nicely if you're not using fractional saves.

Technically, the fractional saves rule does not actually dispense with the extra +2 from the first level of each class.

[quick_comment]

I second the martial study: mind over body. In gestalt, you can also just take a level of warblade.

Also, there is the talisman of undead fortitude in MiC which gives you undead immunities.

[Darkfire]

Take Martial Study (ToB p31) at 6th-level or later to pick up the 3rd-level Diamond Mind manoeuvre Mind Over Body<snip>
Just a quick correction: you'd need to take it at 10th level or later (will probably have to be at 12th) unless you dip Swordsage/Warblade (and if you can do that, you won't need to spend the feat) as you need an initiator level of 5th in order to learn a 3rd-level manoeuvre.

[jiriku]

This isn't exactly what you're asking for, but there are a couple of spells in Spell Compendium that make you count as an undead or a construct for a short period of time. While affected by these spells, you can ignore many effects that normally require a Fort save.

Likewise, there are magic items, spells and class features available to grant immunity to poison, disease, harmful transmutations/polymorphs, swarms, negative energy effects, and death effects, which are some of the most common reasons to make a Fort save. Stock up on these and you'll auto-pass your Fort save in many situations.

[IthilanorStPete]

On a similar note I believe that there is a headband in the magic item compendium that does the whole concentration instead of fort once a day.

Yeah, headband of concious effort.

[Gorbash]

I dont think those 2 stack

Where did I say that they do? I just mentioned both since I don't know what level is he.


I was looking into a 1-level dip in Mindbender already, but I have not heard of the Earth Dreamer and Heartwarder PrC's yet, so I'll have to check those out.

Earth Dreamer is located on 110 pg. of Races of the Stone. IMHO, the class is worth it taking it 5 lvls because of the semi-permanent Earth Glide. Other abilities are also decent.

Also, you can avoid taking certain fort saves merely by casting spells like Statue or Elemental Body. Both last long enough to protect you from some fort-based effects.

[Kelpstrand]

Indeed:

Level 17: Shapechange into a Ghost version of yourself. Or into a Ghost Chronotyryn.

Level 15: 10 minutes per level of undead immunities for an 8th level spell. Assuming Bead of Karma and +2 CL otherwise, that's 3 and a half hours.

Level 13: 13 or more hours of Elemental Body. IE all day. Immunity to poison, disease, stunning, critical hits, SA, ect.

Level 11: Superior Resistance +6 to saves.

Get yourself a +1 Parrying Spellstrike Dagger. Cast GMW on it. +GMW +1 to saves.

Various PrC dips. Totally worth it.

Don't waste a feat on Martial Study if you can cast enchantment spells.

Heroism: Grants a Fighter feat. Martial Study is Fighter feat. Say hello to your new maneuver.

Though honestly, Concentration isn't always higher than saves. If you can get a couple PrCs with +2 fort, the +4 +1-3 from bad fort progression levels, +6 resistance, +4-6 GMW Parrying Spellstrike Dagger, +Moral bonuses, which are easy to come by.

You can easily have at level 15 a +19 + moral bonuses not even counting familiar or Con mod.

[Gorbash]

+Moral bonuses, which are easy to come by.

Yeah, but the downside is you're immune to moral effects while under Mind Blank. Which you should be at all times, starting lvl 15.

[Kelpstrand]

Yeah, but the downside is you're immune to moral effects while under Mind Blank. Which you should be at all times, starting lvl 15.

Except the ones you cast before you cast Mindblank.

[Choco]

Earth Dreamer is located on 110 pg. of Races of the Stone. IMHO, the class is worth it taking it 5 lvls because of the semi-permanent Earth Glide. Other abilities are also decent.

Ah, I'm gonna have to check that out, thanks for tellin me where it is.

I don't have any levels in mind, just wondering in general of any good ways to raise fort saves as a caster. Y'all have given me lots of good ideas, though at higher levels it seems it'l just be easier to make it so you never have to make fort saves in the first place.

[Draz74]

The Mind over Body maneuver is a great suggestion (although whoever said you can't use it until Level 10 was correct). But you don't need to spend a feat on it. Just buy a Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind for 3000 gp.

[Thurbane]

Dragonborn Gnome gets +4 CON

[Darrin]

Dragonborn Gnome gets +4 CON

Yeah, but the Dragonborn Arctic Mongrelfolk (+8 Con) eats him for breakfast.

[msully4321]

(providing you're willing to put ranks into it).

Which you are, since you're a caster...

[Thurbane]

Yeah, but the Dragonborn Arctic Mongrelfolk (+8 Con) eats him for breakfast.
Maybe, but the casting stats on that are not great. :smallamused: