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Devilboy
2009-09-24, 07:19 PM
I want to make a character based around the multi-use weapons...either the Yuan-ti Serpent Bow, or the Elvencraft Longbow.

Currently, I'm thinking Kensai is the best option, but I need a few levels before that, and I'm not sure what would be the best way to lead into it. Ranger? Rogue?

Requirements:
Alignment: LG, LN, LE.
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Concentration: 5 ranks.
Diplomacy: 5 ranks.
Ride: 5 ranks.
Feats: Combat Expertise,
Weapon Focus (any).
Must complete an oath of service to either an overlord or an ideal

Most things are allowed, but too much cheese and the DM will find a way to hurt me...so be nice :P

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-24, 07:31 PM
The Serpent Bow is fairly good. Feycraft template (DMG2) can turn the bladed part into a finesse weapon if it all ready isn't (be prepared to dig through that book if you are looking for the feycraft template, as it is in an unusual place).

I wouldn't bother with Kensei unless the DM is stingy on magic weapons. If he gives you free reign with the WBL, ignore Kensei outright. If it really means that much to you, you're actually better off using a Legacy Item instead of levels in Kensei (statsitically speaking, you can negate the penalties imposed by Legacy Items, especially custom-made ones, fairly easily, but you can never negate the penalties imposed by class abilities and the Kensei has a lot of useless abilities for an Archer/Melee character).

If possible, dig up the Sublime Way variant Ranger, or play a Warblade/Ranger (Ranger first for better skills and IL). Several of the maneuvers a Warblade can learn can be used at Ranged, especially Time Stands Still (Full Melee Attack followed by Full Ranged Attack is pretty nasty).

Your ranger levels should be TWFing-focused, not Ranged-focused (double weapon and all that). If you feel a little feat-starved, remember that there are ways to get bonus feats (some sneaky, some legitimate, such as a custom Legacy Item).

What exactly are you aiming for with this character?

PinkysBrain
2009-09-24, 07:37 PM
Kensai, wow ... don't see that mentioned too often anymore. Not a great prestige class really. If you are only taking it because you really want to make an explicit mechanical bond with the weapon I'd have to agree with the Weapon of Legacy recommendation.

The Yuan-ti Serpent Bow is nice in that it doesn't say it's treated as something else when making melee attacks ... this means it will work with Hunter's Mercy!

PinkysBrain
2009-09-24, 07:40 PM
Your ranger levels should be TWFing-focused, not Ranged-focused
I'd reverse this ... what's the point in TWF'ing?

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-24, 07:48 PM
I'd reverse this ... what's the point in TWF'ing?

For AoOs and such. To be honest, either one works. One just helps during the full attack action if you have Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike (let them AoO you for your ranged attacks, you can just stab them right back!).

PinkysBrain
2009-09-24, 07:54 PM
I still don't understand where the TWF comes in ... he can use Karmic Strike/Robilar's gambit without TWF'ing, the Yuan-ti Serpent Bow threatens even when you are using it as a ranged weapon.

Devilboy
2009-09-24, 07:58 PM
Well, I have a backstory that has the character developing a fairly big link with the weapon, so I went with kensai as it was kinda fitting. Guess I can have backstory without the class to go with it tho...

Basically, I want a character that is equally effective in almost all combat situations, the DM has a tendency to throw very random stuff at us to make us work. Having a char that he can't do that to is the basic intention.

Hunter's mercy on melee... :smalleek:

Ok, so ToB stuffs seems the best option. I would have to run that one by the DM tho, he dislikes ToB in general...is there anything else that would work as effectively? I'm really quite liking that Hunter's Mercy trick, and quite want to abuse that a bit :P

PinkysBrain
2009-09-24, 08:25 PM
ToB is nice, but not really necessary ... how about a Swift Hunter with UMD? With UMD being prepared is just a question of having the right scrolls :)

If you want to keep it simple Scout 4/Ranger X with the feat Spellcasting Apprentice (from DMG2 which gives you UMD as class skill).

If you don't mind dipping Scout 4/Cleric 1/Ranger X (the advantage of this is that you get turn undead, which you can use to power the feat Travel Devotion from Complete Champion ... which is a godly feat for skirmishing). Take the magic domain, ultimately not as powerful as UMD but more reliable (only for wands though, not scrolls).

Take Improved Skirmish and Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel).

Get a scroll organizer (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) and a wand sheath for your bow (Dungeonscape) and once you can cast spells yourself as a ranger get a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MiC, hell get a couple and some belts of battle while you are at it) and some pearls of power. The UMD isn't absolutely necessary, the ranger spell list has some really good spells, but at higher levels when you can make the checks it will open up a lot of options.

Devilboy
2009-09-26, 08:42 PM
Sounds good...but can't I get away with Scout 3? I lose BAB at 4th, and don't know if I really need the feat. Having said that...Whirling Blade+Hunter's Mercy seems a bit good..does that actually work? If so, given the UMD anyway, I can throw whirling death at a line of enemies quite simply, and get the skirmish damage too, as often as not :smallbiggrin:

PinkysBrain
2009-09-26, 08:47 PM
Sounds good...but can't I get away with Scout 3? I lose BAB at 4th
Hmm? Scout is 3/4 BAB ... it gets +1 BAB between 3rd and 4th level.

Whirling Blade+Hunter's Mercy seems a bit good..does that actually work?
Sure, but Hunter's Mercy only affects your first hit ... and unless you take the cleric level you need to cast Whirling Blade through UMD.

Devilboy
2009-09-26, 09:46 PM
Ahhh, sorry, messed up when counting :smallredface:

I do want to dip into cleric though, that is a useful feat.

Thanks very much for the advice, I think this should do for what I want.