[3.5] Spell-Storing

[Burley]

I may have made a bad choice.
See, I'm playing a Beguiler/Master of Masks, and, since I didn't want to go without a weapon (just in case), I bought a +1 Spell Storing Rapier. I plan to put one of my good spells in it during my down time.
But, now... I dunno. I have a +15 to concentration, so I always succeed on casting defensively, so... Why would I need a weapon?
I can't think of any spell that anybody else in the group has that I couldn't recreate or do better, so... That's useless.

Should I just get rid of the weapon and get something else? I've had my mind on putting SR on my armor...

[Keewatin]

Well the spell storing weapon will keep the spell stored indefinatly so you basicly get an extra spell if you dont need to use it the day it was cast into the weapon.

[Aharon]

Also, a maximized empowered 3rd level spell is still a 3rd level spell... It takes an 8th level slot to cast, but is RAW 3rd level.

Most DMs probably won't allow this, as abusive things are only allowed if they are also imaginative. :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

That's typically still an 8th level spell for storage purposes.

I'd give the weapon to an ally and cast spells into it for him. He can strike with it first, sheath it / drop it, then draw his regular weapon. It's well worth it already, but it'll be even better if you have an ally with quickdraw. Pick any spell with a "target: _______" line.

[Toliudar]

Failing Eric's excellent suggestion, it wouldn't be hard to add in one of the low level in-case-of-emergency spells that you can't normally cast, either from another PC or by hiring an NPC caster. Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic and Water Breathing come to mind - spells that might never get used, but become situationally very useful.

[Burley]

Does that work? I mean, the spell storing thing says that on a hit that deals damage you target the enemy.
I don't think you can put a Cure spell in there.

[ericgrau]

Any spell with a "target:______" line works, including the cure spell line. As it happens a have a bard with a spell storing dagger. The DM found it reasonable to let me forego my strength bonus to damage when I want. So I'd say, "Take 1d4 damage and heal 35."

Inflict spells and vampiric touch are a couple nice damage spells. Or you could gamble on a low level save-or-suck (and hope the baddy doesn't save). But damage stacks with damage better.

EDIT: Here are some good spells for spell storing weapons
2: touch of idiocy (no save)
3: dispel magic, confusion, hold person (to make successive attacks easier to hit), inflict serious wounds, vampiric touch, empowered shocking grasp

[Darkfire]

Does that work? I mean, the spell storing thing says that on a hit that deals damage you target the enemy.
I don't think you can put a Cure spell in there.
Non-lethal damage counts! It's viable so long as you take the usual -4 on the attack against an ally/yourself. As a bonus, that makes you less likely to inadvertently confirm a crit.

Also, any cure spell would be viable used offensively against undead.

[ericgrau]

That's a good idea too. Plus cure spells cure an equal amount of nonlethal damage on top of the lethal.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

So, it's like a healing shiv?

[Aharon]

@Eric
For rings of spell storing, yes. The text of the weapon enhancement doesn't state that you store slots, though.

[Ostien]

@Eric
For rings of spell storing, yes. The text of the weapon enhancement doesn't state that you store slots, though.

While it is true that the weapon enchantment does not specify and the ring specifically mentions, this seems more like an oversight. Are you sure there is not an errata about this? In any case as a DM I'd rule it takes into account spell slots.

[Darkfire]

So, it's like a healing shiv?
Yes (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/07/23/episode-580-sea-gods-are-*******/) and the best part is that both ends work.

[Cieyrin]

I remember arrows of healing and a spellstoring whip for just those cases.

[PinkysBrain]

Quickdrawing spellstoring weapons breaks the game ... TWF with 10d6 extra damage on each attack is a bit much. If you use arrows as daggers it can be done at fairly low level too, and with arrows you don't even need the quickdraw feat.

[Sinfire Titan]

Quickdrawing spellstoring weapons breaks the game ... TWF with 10d6 extra damage on each attack is a bit much. If you use arrows as daggers it can be done at fairly low level too, and with arrows you don't even need the quickdraw feat.

That's.... no different from a TWFing Rogue or a Warlock with EG. Or a Duskblade with Poison/Empowered Shocking Grasp.

Plus it can't be used in consecutive rounds, requires a hefty investment in GP, and requires a spellcaster willing to sink spell slots into making you a Nova 1/encounter. A nova that deals very pitiful and easily blocked damage (Lesser Globe of Invulnerability).

[woodenbandman]

I like that personal spell effects can be spell-stored.

[PinkysBrain]

That's.... no different from a TWFing Rogue
A TWF'ing rogue at level 20, not at level 10. Also the TWF'ing rogue can be the one doing it of course.

A nova that deals very pitiful and easily blocked damage (Lesser Globe of Invulnerability).
From a charop point of view it's pitiful damage, but it's large enough to be a one round KO unless you are blocking it 99% of the time ... and I happen to think that rocket tag and absolute defenses shouldn't really be what the game is about. I don't really care whether it concerns ICBMs or V2s, either way catching it is not an option.

The investment isn't really that high money wise ... as for the spells, time is free most of the time. Only game time is precious, which isn't the kind of time you need to fill the weapons.

[Person_Man]

Since you've gone into Master of Masks, you might want to take a look at this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526). If you know what you're doing, it has awesome applications.

Also, what's your build goal? Beguiler is a very poor entry into MoM, since Beguiler relies on its spells to do stuff, and MoM is essentially a 1 level dip class that doesn't progress casting.

[Darrin]

Should I just get rid of the weapon and get something else? I've had my mind on putting SR on my armor...

Trade in the weapon for a few Glyph Seals (MIC p. 161). These can do anything a spell storing item can do, and a bit more (but oddly not with 3rd or 4th level spells).

Buy a Defending weapon instead (casters can always use a better AC), and add a wand chamber (Dungeonscape p. 34, 100 GP) and a wand of something you can cast as a swift/immediate action (Stay the Hand, Halt, Hesitate should work, but UMD and Advanced Learning can come in quite handy). Make it a staff or spear (or any two-handed weapon, really) and add Steadfast Boots (MIC p. 138, 1400 GP). Thus, if you ever get charged, your weapon is automatically considered readied against it, and does double damage.

[ZeroNumerous]

That's typically still an 8th level spell for storage purposes.


In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#).

RAW, it works. Common sense says others, but if your DM allows it then go for it.

[ericgrau]

I'm gonna agree with the oversight explanation, or just b/c it doesn't say you can't do it doesn't mean it can. "Operates at original spell level" is more likely referring to saves, ability to be countered and such. It's a moot point anyway, since no sane person would allow it to be used that way regardless of supposed RAW.


Quickdrawing spellstoring weapons breaks the game ... TWF with 10d6 extra damage on each attack is a bit much. If you use arrows as daggers it can be done at fairly low level too, and with arrows you don't even need the quickdraw feat.

The thing about quickdrawing multiple spell storing weapons is that you must drop the old weapons; quickdraw doesn't grant quick sheathe. Or use gloves of storing, but that costs more gold. Plus at level 10 your casters vampiric touches aren't doing 10d6, they're doing 5d6. Or inflict serious wounds gives 3d8+10; almost as much as 7d6. And they only get 3 of them either way.

So more likely the full technique with all 4 weapons would wait until level 12-14, deal 6d6-7d6 extra damage per hit, and consume significant resources: both gold and spells. Even then it's only usable for one encounter per day. Or for the same cost you could get +2d6 damage to every hit. I hardly call that game breaking. Stacking on bonus damage or other special effects is the way you're supposed to play TWF to take advantage of it and be effective. Are you really saying TWF, without any splatbooks at all, is too powerful and needs nerfing compared to other styles??

Dirt cheap spell storing arrows OTOH are broken and their legality is questionable.

[Cieyrin]

Plus at level 10 your casters vampiric touches aren't doing 10d6, they're doing 5d6.

Use Bloodstone weapons instead to automatically empower your Vampiric Touch at no additional cost? 5d6 * 1.5 isn't bad, compared to the other options you have available.