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View Full Version : Packing a one-two punch with Feeblemind and...



Raewyn
2009-09-26, 12:41 AM
I'm looking for more encounter-ending moves with my 10th level Beguiler. Everyone seems to get terrifyingly lucky against Charm Monster and humanoid enemies are sparse, so I haven't gotten to test out Dominate Person.

Possible DM table-turning aside, I'm curious if there is a spell that can be combined with Feeblemind to render non-caster foes catatonic. Something like Touch of Idiocy, without that pesky "ability score cannot be reduced below 1."

Worira
2009-09-26, 12:50 AM
Ray of Stupidity from the Spell Compendium. 2nd level spell, 1d4+1 int damage. You'll need to use Advanced Learning to get it.

I feel like pointing out that if they save against Charm Monster, chances are they'll save against Feeblemind.

PinkysBrain
2009-09-26, 12:56 AM
Throw a quickened ray of stupidity after it (use a metamagic rod of quicken, that MiC circlet which does the same thing or a belt of battle). I don't see the point though, if your DM is fudging rolls on Charm Monster I don't see why he wouldn't fudge them on feeblemind (and Hold Monster).

Raewyn
2009-09-26, 12:56 AM
Ray of Stupidity from the Spell Compendium. 2nd level spell, 1d4+1 int damage. You'll need to use Advanced Learning to get it.

I feel like pointing out that if they save against Charm Monster, chances are they'll save against Feeblemind.

Aha! Thankies!

For the first point, my Beguiler picked up some ranks in UMD, so I might just snag a wand (though Advanced Learning isn't a bad choice either).

For the second, it seems to be just that particular spell where my DM rolls all the 19s/20s. My other spells work just fine for the most part.

EDIT: There's no fudging! He just gets lucky. My DM's a straight shooter. (I had a charmed Juvenile red dragon one of the few times I got lucky, but he got turned to stone by Prismatic Spray. :smallfrown:)

Flatulous
2009-09-30, 01:14 PM
Why not try Ray of Dizziness?

From Spell Compendium. 3rd level enchantment, a ray spell so it requires a ranged touch attack, but there's no save.

Target can only take a standard or move action each turn. It won't render the non-caster foe catatonic, but it eliminates all their mobility and their full attack option which is usually the big problem with a non-caster bad guy.

technophile
2009-09-30, 01:30 PM
Along the same lines as Ray of Dizziness is Sting Ray (Wizard 2, Enchantment, Spell Compendium) -- target can only take a standard or move action, must make a Concentration check to cast, and takes a -2 to AC. A Will save ends the first two effects but not the AC penalty.

Fizban
2009-09-30, 02:16 PM
I feel like pointing out that if they save against Charm Monster, chances are they'll save against Feeblemind.

As I remember, Feeblemind puts a hefty penalty on the save if you use it on an arcanist, so he's probably trying to leverage that.

If you've got save troubles I'd suggest Ray of Sickness (SC): no save and the sickened condition applies a -2 on all saves.

sofawall
2009-09-30, 03:03 PM
Along the same lines as Ray of Dizziness is Sting Ray (Wizard 2, Enchantment, Spell Compendium) -- target can only take a standard or move action, must make a Concentration check to cast, and takes a -2 to AC. A Will save ends the first two effects but not the AC penalty.

Sting Ray, however, is a SoD for Australians.

Myrmex
2009-09-30, 03:43 PM
Sting Ray, however, is a SoD for Australians.

Too soon! Too soon!

arguskos
2009-09-30, 04:18 PM
Too soon! Too soon!
It's been years. In the words of a great man, "He's dead, Jim."

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-30, 04:43 PM
EDIT: There's no fudging! He just gets lucky. My DM's a straight shooter. (I had a charmed Juvenile red dragon one of the few times I got lucky, but he got turned to stone by Prismatic Spray. :smallfrown:)

Fah. Charm Monster is no more likely to fail than Feeblemind is (except for the potential +5 bonus to the first and the potential -4 penalty to the latter). Any suggestions to the contrary are likely confirmation bias and the like.

Fiery Diamond
2009-09-30, 05:11 PM
Where is this +5 bonus coming from?

Fluffles
2009-09-30, 05:24 PM
Sting Ray, however, is a SoD for Australians.

I called bull**** whenever people told me at first :smallfrown:

KillianHawkeye
2009-09-30, 05:44 PM
Where is this +5 bonus coming from?

From here:

If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

And actually, since Charm Monster is a lower level spell than Feeblemind, it actually IS more likely to fail without the bonuses/penalties.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-30, 06:01 PM
And actually, since Charm Monster is a lower level spell than Feeblemind,

And that's why you should always check your sources. >_<

But the OP seemed to focus on abnormally high saving throw rolls, which is purely coincidence and perhaps not even an existing trend.