Dragon Disciple (5 levels)

[Ellington]

I've always liked the idea behind the Dragon Disciple, but as most people know, it's horribly executed. I also never thought the class deserved ten levels. I'm not satisfied with the entry requirements as of yet as I think they're too low, but I'm not really sure what could replace them and still fit the fluff.

I need some help balancing this as I think the new ability scores might be a bit imbalanced and if someone could help me come up with better requirements, that would be great. I think this class is available at too low a level right now and I might just boost up the knowledge requirement to 10 or 12, but that seems cheap.

In short:
-5 level Dragon Disciple
-Breath Weapon every 1d4 rounds
-A choice between the abilities granted
-No bonus spells

Hit Die
d12.

Requirements

Race:

Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).

Skills:

Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.

Languages

Draconic.

Special

The player chooses a dragon variety when taking the first level in this prestige class.

Dragon Disciple
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Natural armor increase +1, Claws and Bite, Physical Ability Boost +2

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Breath weapon 2d8, Mental ability boost +2

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Natural armor increase +1, Physical ability boost +2

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Breath weapon 4d8, Mental ability boost +2, Blindsense 60 ft

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Dragon apotheosis, Wings,[/table]

Class Skills

The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level
2 + int modifier.

Class Features

Natural Armor Increase
At 1st, 3rd, and 5th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table. As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.

Claws and Bite
At 1st level, a dragon disciple gains claw and bite attacks if he does not already have them. Use the values below or the disciple’s base claw and bite damage values, whichever are greater.

A dragon disciple is considered proficient with these attacks. When making a full attack, a dragon disciple uses his full base attack bonus with his bite attack but takes a -5 penalty on claw attacks. The Multiattack feat reduces this penalty to only -2.

{table=head]Size|Bite Damage|Claw Damage

Small|
1d4|
1d3 |

Medium|
1d6|
1d4 |

Large|
1d8|
1d6|[/table]

Physical ability boost

At 1st and 3rd level, a dragon disciple increases either his strength, dexterity or constitution by +2. These abilities stack and are gained as through level advancement.

Breath Weapon
At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains a breath weapon. The type and shape depend on the dragon variety whose heritage he enjoys (see below). Regardless of the ancestor, the breath weapon deals 2d8 points of damage of the appropriate energy type. When the dragon disciple attains dragon apotheosis at 5th level the damage increases to 4d8 points of damage. The breath weapon may be used once every 1d4 rounds. Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.

The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier.

A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.

Mental ability boost

At 2nd and 4th level, a dragon disciple increases either his intelligence, wisdom or charisma by +2. These abilities stack and are gained as through level advancement.

Blindsense

At 4th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 60 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.

Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

Dragon apotheosis
At 5th level, a dragon disciple takes on the half-dragon template. His breath weapon reaches full strength (as noted above), and he gains +2 to a physical and mental ability. His natural armor bonus increases to +3, and he acquires low-light vision, 60-foot darkvision, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, and immunity to the energy type used by his breath weapon.

Wings
At 5th level, a dragon disciple grows a set of draconic wings. He may now fly at a speed equal to his normal land speed, with average maneuverability.

[Pigkappa]

I don't think this is too much unbalanced. The bonuses are really good, but most of them are going to help him in direct attacks (Claws and Bite, Natural Armor, Breath Weapon), and the character will probably be quite bad at fighting, considering he should be a Sorcerer or a Bard (I'm assuming the PG came from a class in the player's handbook), or he should have spent some levels in those classes at least.
Receving bonuses to both your mental and physical abilities is very nice indeed, but quite few characters need to have both good phyisical and mental stats (a Sorcerer would probably like the Constitution bonus very much, but I don't think that's worth losing his new-level spells; a Paladin or a Monk or a Ranger or a Rogue is hardly going to meet the requirements at a low level).

In my opinion, other possible requirements which make sense are:

- Ability to cast Level 2 (or 3, or 4) arcane spells without preparation: this is to avoid a warrior or barbarian who just takes a level as a Bard/Sorcerer to meet the requirements and then to choose this prestige class later. I think "Level 2" would be enough.

- Having met a dragon of the variety he is going to choose.

[Amadi]

the character will probably be quite bad at fighting, considering he should be a Sorcerer or a Bard

So, you haven't heard of Words of Creation and Snowflake Wardance? :smallamused:

[Pigkappa]

So, you haven't heard of Words of Creation and Snowflake Wardance? :smallamused:

Maybe I heard of them in another language. I'm not very keen on the various books anyway, and I think a DM would really like to speak with a player before he chooses an Arcane caster which is also very good at fighting to be able to use this prestige class at his full power. After all, there are probably hundreds of classes and prestige classes in the various D&D books, and it is quite difficult to take care of all of them when creating a new prestige class/feat/spell/weapon/whatever. I think it is better to prevent problems with unbalanced characters by speaking with players before the campaign start and asking them what they think their characters is going to become (and forbidding them to make too strange (and powerful) combinations).

[Silverscale]

:cool:[Steal] "Yoink":biggrin:

[Fenix_of_Doom]

What personally has always bothered me about certain prestige classes is that they expect a caster entrance and don't do anything to progress caster levels. Personally I'd either add "+1 caster level" at level 2 and 4 and demand 2nd level spontaneous arcane casting before entering, or cutting the casting entry requirement altogether and leave it as it is*.

*your current homebrew that is.

[Ellington]

Pigkappa and Fenix_of_Doom: Thanks for the critique.

I actually realized that 8 ranks in knowledge arcana is actually pretty hard to come by for non casters so I guess that is a sufficient cost since we wont have Barbarians just dipping in straight at level 5. I'm scrapping the spontaneous spellcasting requirements.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Pigkappa and Fenix_of_Doom: Thanks for the critique.

I actually realized that 8 ranks in knowledge arcana is actually pretty hard to come by for non casters so I guess that is a sufficient cost since we wont have Barbarians just dipping in straight at level 5. I'm scrapping the spontaneous spellcasting requirements.

The way I see it is that it's now a non-caster prestige class that takes tactical dipping to get know:arcana as class skill.
Sounds reasonable to me, although like everything else it depends on the power level your used to.

I just had an idea I'd like to bounce off you, perhaps you could have the amount of d6 you get for your breath weapon key off your HD.
At level two it would effectively half your HD for breath weapon purposes.

[Ellington]

The way I see it is that it's now a non-caster prestige class that takes tactical dipping to get know:arcana as class skill.
Sounds reasonable to me, although like everything else it depends on the power level your used to.

I just had an idea I'd like to bounce off you, perhaps you could have the amount of d6 you get for your breath weapon key off your HD.
At level two it would effectively half your HD for breath weapon purposes.

Sorry if I'm being slow, what d6 are you talking about? The damage on the breath weapon?

[ericgrau]

Dragon disciple is the strongest core martial class there is. It's just not so hot for casters.

Is the original style bad? Maybe. The 5 level progression is interesting.

[grubblybubbly]

am i the only one who thinks this is just a little bit cheap? an overall +12 ability bonus over 5 levels? plus breath weapon, natural armor, wings, natural weapons, blindsense. i think you should either stretch it out it two levels more, or lessen the ability bonuses and stuff. not to be harsh, it looks really good, but maybe too good. otherwise i think you have made th dragon disciple more attractive to spellcasters and more physical players.

good job.

[Pigkappa]

Pigkappa and Fenix_of_Doom: Thanks for the critique.

I actually realized that 8 ranks in knowledge arcana is actually pretty hard to come by for non casters so I guess that is a sufficient cost since we wont have Barbarians just dipping in straight at level 5. I'm scrapping the spontaneous spellcasting requirements.

I think that without the spellcasting requirements, it really becomes unbalanced. As grubblybubbly said, a +12 ability bonus is really amazing. A Ranger/Warrior/Barbarian could be tempted to boost Knowledge: Arcana just in order to choose this class; they will be able to do so quite late in the game, but I fear that a level 18 Barbarian is really weaker than a level 13 Barbarian/level 5 Dragon Disciple (he can just choose the put all of the physical bonuses in Strength, and having a low base attack won't be a problem anymore; he will lose some of the Barbarian feats, but the ones of the Dragon Disciple are way better).

[ericgrau]

Or just dip into a caster class for 1 level and just pay double for some of the ranks. That makes your max score in knowledge(arcana) into 3 + character level, even though only 1 level has knowledge(arcana) as a class skill. Heck, dip into monk instead of a caster class and pick up a couple feats (while ignoring flurry and wis to AC). Ya, the original stat bonuses were already plenty for non-casters. Boosting them further causes issues, unless you force caster levels.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Sorry if I'm being slow, what d6 are you talking about? The damage on the breath weapon?

I was talking about the damage, I only just noticed the damage was listed in d8.

If you feel the current class is too powerful, then I'd scrap the first physical boost, because the class is a bit front loaded right now.
Blindsense is also a pretty powerful ability, halving it's range would be another good nerf.