Really, Aizen? (Spoilertastic)

[golentan]

I just read the latest Bleach. And I find myself asking:

WHY?!

I can understand given the universe trying only to field your strongest units. The world is set up so that infinite mooks will only ever fail. But why the hell would Aizen bother executing his own underlings for not being strong enough? She was at the very least occupying the enemy. Using his surprise attack to kill Harribel is just pointless, murdering waste. So was what he did to Hinamori in soul society for that matter. If he's not going to use anyone but himself and the traitor captains, why did he even bother raising the Arrancar in the first place? If he DOES want an army that's worthwhile, maybe he should stop killing underlings when they don't live up and let them gain some experience. If they don't survive that's one thing, but killing them before they've lost is just moronic. Am I missing something, or has he just built a puppy farm simply to supply him with dogs to kick?

[Demons_eye]

In his eye they imperfect things, A mix of hollow (witch I think he hates) and Death God. He is the strongest and was forced to flee to a desert area surrounded by flawed things for hours on end? I think seeing his highest piece fall while his rook still fought set him off and he flipped over the chess board to hit the other player.

[Matar]

WHY?!

Because he's a horrible and clinched villain? It's sorta what bad villains do.


Am I missing something, or has he just built a puppy farm simply to supply him with dogs to kick?

Exactly this.

[Prime32]

Um, maybe he wants people to hate him? :smallconfused:

[Neoriceisgood]

Hah, Aizen being a typical evil villain just for the sake of it? Gee, I never saw that coming. :smallbiggrin:

[Soras Teva Gee]

Because Bleach has long since vacated anything resembling a storyline. Hell when was the last time we saw our protagonist?

Not to flame the entire series but its been totally degraded even since this current series of meaningless duels pretending to be a meaningful battle started.

[chiasaur11]

He's trying to compensate for his lack of a handlebar mustache.

Next up: Tying Nell to the railroad tracks!

[Xallace]

He's trying to compensate for his lack of a handlebar mustache.

Next up: Tying Nell to the railroad tracks!

I would watch Bleach again.

Last I checked it was basically self-parody anyway (last I checked being Kenpachi's "...with TWO HANDS!" scene).

[Fostire]

He said that they were too weak. My guess is that he was gonna leave them anyway and killed so that the couldn't reveal any information about aizen or his plans.

[Oslecamo]

Not to flame the entire series but its been totally degraded even since this current series of meaningless duels pretending to be a meaningful battle started.


Indeed. Before they seemed to still be saving inocent lifes and stuff, but now they just seem to challenge each other for the sake of it.

On the other hand, as already said, Bleach was also kinda self-parodical. Fight is tough? Well, I guess I'll use my ultimate secret technique! TWO HANDED POWARH ATTACK MUAHAHAHAHAHA! It adds 1.5 times the strenght modifier to the damage roll and +2 damage per each -1 to penalty I take to hit!

No, it's now enough to overcome both my DR and regeneration rate! Ack!:smallyuk:

[Lord Seth]

So was what he did to Hinamori in soul society for that matter.Hrm, why did he do that? Did he ever give a reason? The thing is, even after the guy stabbed her it took her a while to get over her idolization of him. It seems like it would be to his benefit to not harm her because of his control over her. Maybe he didn't think he could continue to control her after turning traitor, but I'm confused as to why he went to such lengths just to bring her to him and try to kill her.

Still, at least that one made for a fantastic twist.

[Cubey]

On the other hand, as already said, Bleach was also kinda self-parodical. Fight is tough? Well, I guess I'll use my ultimate secret technique! TWO HANDED POWARH ATTACK MUAHAHAHAHAHA! It adds 1.5 times the strenght modifier to the damage roll and +2 damage per each -1 to penalty I take to hit!

No, it's now enough to overcome both my DR and regeneration rate! Ack!:smallyuk:

Well, in Kenpachi's case that does give him like a +300 damage/hit bonus, in DnD terms.

Although like some people already said, my the answer to "why Aizen, why?" is "because Bleach stopped being a good series quite a while ago".

[Xallace]

Although like some people already said, my the answer to "why Aizen, why?" is "because Bleach stopped being a good series quite a while ago".

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I kinda expected Kon to become a main character with interesting characterization after, y'know, he was introduced as a potential main character with interesting characterization. Same with Tatsuki. And Chad.

But on topic, yeah, I'd say Aizen's really just a "puppies are for kicking" kind of guy. He's not really meant to have any redeeming qualities.

[Cubey]

You mean that Bleach looked interesting in the first episodes, when everyone thought it's going to be different from your standard neverending shonen fighting fare with prolonged fights for no reason, heroes and villains pulling upgrades out of their arse, power levels OVER 9000 and a large cast but most of it being unable to keep up with the power race and thus being completely unimportant?

Yeah, pretty much.

And I should be sorry that my threads developed into Bleach bashing, but that's really what I feel is the answer to the OP. Why did Aizen act like a villain from a bad shonen series? Because he's a villain in a bad shonen series.

[horngeek]

Just you wait. Whithin 50 chapters, his true reason for doing so will be revealed. :smalltongue:

Bets are on that the Espada need to die for his plan.

[Prime32]

Just you wait. Whithin 50 chapters, his true reason for doing so will be revealed. :smalltongue:

Bets are on that the Espada need to die for his plan.They do embody aspects of death...

[Fostire]

They do embody aspects of death...

Does that mean that death is dead? :smalltongue:

[averagejoe]

He's trying to compensate for his lack of a handlebar mustache.

Next up: Tying Nell to the railroad tracks!

Tying Nell to the railroad tracks? It's been done. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83Jqd2h0Yg) :smalltongue:

[Reverent-One]

And I should be sorry that my threads developed into Bleach bashing, but that's really what I feel is the answer to the OP. Why did Aizen act like a villain from a bad shonen series? Because he's a villain in a bad shonen series.

Wait, you mean there's good shonen series?

[Cubey]

Wait, you mean there's good shonen series?

Doesn't your avatar come from one?

[Reverent-One]

Doesn't your avatar come from one?

Good point. Now that I think of it, there's enough DBZ-style shonen series out there that when I hear shonen, that's the type of show I hear about. The hero with near unlimited potential but lacks discipline to use it properly, learning some super attack to kill the big bad then needing to learn another, more super attack to beat the next, more powerful big bad, loooooooooong drawn out fights, ect. So yeah, I forgot there's more to it than that.

[Cubey]

The funny thing is, from modern series that have some popularity in US or Europe, only Bleach and Naruto are like that. One Piece and Mahou Sensei Negima (manga, not anime) are neverending shonen series as well, but they don't really fit the description.

[Xallace]

Good point. Now that I think of it, there's enough DBZ-style shonen series out there that when I hear shonen, that's the type of show I hear about. The hero with near unlimited potential but lacks discipline to use it properly, learning some super attack to kill the big bad then needing to learn another, more super attack to beat the next, more powerful big bad, loooooooooong drawn out fights, ect. So yeah, I forgot there's more to it than that.

The funny thing is, from modern series that have some popularity in US or Europe, only Bleach and Naruto are like that. One Piece and Mahou Sensei Negima (manga, not anime) are neverending shonen series as well, but they don't really fit the description.

I guess I never really considered Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Big O, stuff like that, "shonen anime/manga." DBZ and Trigun are very different shows, but now that it's mentioned, I'm sorta making the connection. So I guess I have to say... I don't really know what makes Shonen, Shonen.

Also, I miss YuYu Hakusho. As stereotypically shonen as it is it will always hold a very special place on my comics shelf.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I don't really know what makes Shonen, Shonen.

It's just an age group demographic. Essentially it's "males between 12 and 18". After that it's seinen which is 18-30+, but shonen can still be pretty mature and some seinen is just a bunch of random tits.

So most anime is based off shonen manga. The Trigun anime was shonen but the manga was seinen.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Also, I miss YuYu Hakusho. As stereotypically shonen as it is it will always hold a very special place on my comics shelf.

I think YYH is different in that it establishes a core cast pretty early on, and then sticks with them, whereas Bleach seems to create and drop characters like a kid going through his action figures. Even though Kuwabara is never as strong as the others, he still gets moments to shine and is a presence throughout, for example.

[KnightDisciple]

Here's a theory I've seen put forth...

The reason Aizen was attacking Karakura town was to sacrifice enough souls to feed the ritual to access/create/whatever the king's key.

What are high-level hollows composed of?

Lots of souls.

What if the death of these Espada plus their Fraccion ends up being enough free-floating souls that Aizen can now create the King's Key? Without needing to beat down anyone else?

[horngeek]

...

That's actually a really good theory.

I like it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Here's a theory I've seen put forth...

The reason Aizen was attacking Karakura town was to sacrifice enough souls to feed the ritual to access/create/whatever the king's key.

What are high-level hollows composed of?

Lots of souls.

What if the death of these Espada plus their Fraccion ends up being enough free-floating souls that Aizen can now create the King's Key? Without needing to beat down anyone else?

Actually, this occurred to me but for a different reason. He said the captains and vice-captains who had showed up would be enough to create the King's Key if they were all killed.

It stands to reason the various Espada and fraccion could serve the very same purpose in a pinch. This was, quite literally, a no-lose battle for Aizen in that regard. If the Shinigami lose, gets the King's Key. If the Espada lose, gets the King's Key anyway. With Starrk down, he must have guessed the Espada side was finished and just hurried things along.

[Kumo]

Hrm, why did he do that? Did he ever give a reason? The thing is, even after the guy stabbed her it took her a while to get over her idolization of him. It seems like it would be to his benefit to not harm her because of his control over her. Maybe he didn't think he could continue to control her after turning traitor, but I'm confused as to why he went to such lengths just to bring her to him and try to kill her.

Still, at least that one made for a fantastic twist.

Basically because she was annoying

[Lord Seth]

Shonen can be used to refer to the "action" genre, or it can be used to just refer to the target audience. For example, few will argue Death Note belongs to the same genre as Bleach, but its target audience is still the same (as evidenced by the fact it ran in Weekly Shonen Jump)

[hanzo66]

Just you wait. Whithin 50 chapters, his true reason for doing so will be revealed. :smalltongue:

Bets are on that the Espada need to die for his plan.

That's what I was thinking. Like Lelouch's plans, where he does something really douchey then later on Asspulls the solution.

[Ganurath]

Here's a theory I've seen put forth...

The reason Aizen was attacking Karakura town was to sacrifice enough souls to feed the ritual to access/create/whatever the king's key.

What are high-level hollows composed of?

Lots of souls.

What if the death of these Espada plus their Fraccion ends up being enough free-floating souls that Aizen can now create the King's Key? Without needing to beat down anyone else?And then the Captain-Commander reveals he saw it coming, and that Kira healed Tia's Fraccion while Aizen was monologuing up to the point where they can flee attackers, and he's now working on Tia while Hachi tends to Captain Tuberculosis. Aizen doesn't have enough souls, so... The ritual drains him.

[KnightDisciple]

And then the Captain-Commander reveals he saw it coming, and that Kira healed Tia's Fraccion while Aizen was monologuing up to the point where they can flee attackers, and he's now working on Tia while Hachi tends to Captain Tuberculosis. Aizen doesn't have enough souls, so... The ritual drains him.

But it was actually just a fake image from his Bankai, and the real Aizen is somewhere else, sacrificing a whole other group of humans well away from Karakura town.

Everyone then proceeds to run like mad to try to stop him.

Then Ichigo and Kenpachi proceed to rip a hole in spacetime with sheer reiatsu and manliness, and everyone proceeds to beat down Aizen for a while.

Or something like that.:smalltongue:

[chiasaur11]

Tying Nell to the railroad tracks? It's been done. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83Jqd2h0Yg) :smalltongue:

Did I say he was creative?

No. No I did not.

[Vic_Sage]

Stark, Mayuri, Chad, Lillynette, Rukia ,haribell, and Yammy are to awesome for this manga. They need their own spinoff.

[Mikeavelli]

Aizen has been lying about his plans this entire time. He's not trying to create the King's Key and take god's place in Heaven. He doesn't even want anyone from Soul Society dead!

The entire series is Aizen's master plan to motivate Soul Society to wipe out the Hollows once and for all.

See, prior to the events of the series, the Hollows had been growing in power faster than the Shinigami. Mostly because the Captains like to sit around and be total ***** more than they like to head out and hone their skills or hunt hollows or such. As a result, we'd reached the point where, if all the Vasto Lorde Hollows teamed up, they could concievably wipe out Soul Society.

Aizen saw that this was true, and devised a plan to put it into action. Now, even as mighty as Aizen is, he couldn't just waltz in and destroy all the Hollows himself - so he's pulling a triple-cross intended to wipe out every hollow of significant power in existence.

The Captain-Commander is in on it, which is why he trapped Aizen and the Captains in flames. This is why also Tousen is allied with Aizen.

Aizen will explain all this, have a good laugh, and resume his responsibilities as a Captain. Thereafter, the gate to hell from WAAAAAY back in the beginning of the manga will open up, and the series will feature a battle against Satan.

[Yora]

Because Bleach has long since vacated anything resembling a storyline. Hell when was the last time we saw our protagonist?
I quit shortly after the end of the first story line. Once they are back from soul society, they are endlessly running through these empty halls of that white city with nothing ever happening. Skipped 10 or 20 chapters, still exactly the same situation.

[Oslecamo]

The entire series is Aizen's master plan to motivate Soul Society to wipe out the Hollows once and for all.


No, no, he actually plans to gather enough souls to ressurect the long-lost loved person of his live.

Oh, wait, wrong manga genre.

The real awfull truth is that Earth is going to be invaded by aliens, and thus Aizen started all of this to force the best available warriors of Earth to rise so that after they've slaughtered each other only the strongest remain and can repel the alien invasion!:smalltongue:

[Xallace]

But it was actually just a fake image from his Bankai, and the real Aizen is somewhere else, sacrificing a whole other group of humans well away from Karakura town.

Everyone then proceeds to run like mad to try to stop him.

Then Ichigo and Kenpachi proceed to rip a hole in spacetime with sheer reiatsu and manliness, and everyone proceeds to beat down Aizen for a while.

Or something like that.:smalltongue:

But that could also be an illusion... I'm not sure how you can beat a guy with perfect illusion powers unless your Bankai is Batman.

Heck, I'm not sure the entire series isn't just an illusion by Aizen that he likes playing out holo-deck style in his downtime from reaper duties.

[Roxlimn]

He didn't have enough slots in his team for the weak guys and the game didn't allow him to free the slots any other way.

[Mikeavelli]

The real awfull truth is that Earth is going to be invaded by aliens, and thus Aizen started all of this to force the best available warriors of Earth to rise so that after they've slaughtered each other only the strongest remain and can repel the alien invasion!:smalltongue:


This is the plot of Battle Athletes. No joke, the main character wins the competition in the fourth-to-last episode, she's standing by the grave of her mother giving some closing remarks, and a friggin flying saucer shows up to start blowing **** up! It's just about the most unexpected plot twist of any anime, ever.

[Ganurath]

I'm not sure how you can beat a guy with perfect illusion powers unless your Bankai is Batman.I disbelieve the floor, the walls, the ceiling, the air, the table, the chairs, the dishes, the food...

[golentan]

But that could also be an illusion... I'm not sure how you can beat a guy with perfect illusion powers unless your Bankai is Batman.

Heck, I'm not sure the entire series isn't just an illusion by Aizen that he likes playing out holo-deck style in his downtime from reaper duties.

Be blind.

The only blind character is: Tousen. Hence why Aizen did everything possible to recruit him. If that had failed, Aizen would have ordered Gin to hit him in his sleep.

I don't know about all the "Bleach Sucks" posts. I can see where they're coming from, but given a few of the characters there's a chance it will still find a way to redeem itself. Plus it is self aware and does toss in some hilarious parody moments (both self and the genre in general) and the characterizations are interesting and consistent. It just started getting silly when they threw in the over 9000 stuff, and introduced bankai without any prior hints about it. And Tite Kubo needs needs NEEDS to stop solving writers block by adding new characters.

[Xallace]

Be blind.

For some reason I was under the impression he could generate auditory/olfactory illusions too, though maybe I made that up.

[Fostire]

For some reason I was under the impression he could generate auditory/olfactory illusions too, though maybe I made that up.

Yes but to be affected by the illusions you have to see aizen's sword release at least once.

BTW: has aizen's bankai ever been revealed?

[Ganurath]

Aizen's bankai has never been revealed, and neither has Gin's shikai bankai.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Pretty much nobody who didn't have their bankai revealed in the original soul society arc has had one revealed since. Soifon and Ikakku being the exceptions.

The likely thing is that unlike Ichigo and Hitsugya, most captain's bankai aren't simply an upgrade to their existing weapon and therefore aren't always the optimum choice.

[Yora]

I don't know about all the "Bleach Sucks" posts. I can see where they're coming from, but given a few of the characters there's a chance it will still find a way to redeem itself.
The first story arc is awsome!
The second one, however, DOES suck. Badly!

[Vic_Sage]

Pretty much nobody who didn't have their bankai revealed in the original soul society arc has had one revealed since. Soifon and Ikakku being the exceptions.

The likely thing is that unlike Ichigo and Hitsugya, most captain's bankai aren't simply an upgrade to their existing weapon and therefore aren't always the optimum choice.
Shusui hasn't reveleaed his either.

[Lord Seth]

Bleach has probably the most poorly thought out world of any anime or manga I've ever seen. I do like the series, but the world is still horribly thought out.

[TheSummoner]

Eh, I can forgive alot... the Over 9000 moments, the endless stream of pointless characters, the tendency for whoever uses their uber-ability last wins the fight, and even the fact that no one good EVER dies... but the thing that irritates me most is the constant stream of filler.

I don't have access to the manga, so any Bleach following I've been doing is through the anime. I started watching fan-subbed japanese episodes around the time the Arrancar were first introduced in the english version... Theres been like 5 filler arcs since. I don't care about soul society royalty, new captains that don't become permanant cast (since someone that powerful would be USEFUL and get air time), soccer games or rebelling swords. Why I even follow this series is because I want to see the bad guy do bad things and the good guy try to stop him.

Furthermore, from the spoilertastic spoilers, I have to question why, if Aizen could easily dispose of Harribel, why not kill off one of his ENEMIES instead? From what little I've seen of the actual battle (the actual parts I care about, spoilers be damned), she didn't seem to have much trouble fighting Hitsugaya, so why not kill off him instead? Theres plenty of lieutenants laying around who would be easy enough to take out... I'm sure some of the other captains are pretty exhauted from fighting... Or use his sword's power to make them fight themselves...

I can understand why someone would kill a minion who failed miserably (not just a normal failure, but a major screw up), but from what everyones been saying, I really doubt that was the case...

[Oslecamo]

I can understand why someone would kill a minion who failed miserably (not just a normal failure, but a major screw up), but from what everyones been saying, I really doubt that was the case...

Indeed. It was a minion alone fighting three of the strongest good guys, holding herself more or less, then Aizen shows out of nowhere and backstabs her, acusing her of weakness.

But hey, that's one of the major signals of a super-evil villain:
1-Minion is sent to do the villain's dirty jobs.
2-Minion is caught in good guy's ambush.
3-Minion manages to escape, defeated but with valuable new information about the new guys like their new allies/weapons/powers.
4-Minion reports findings to his dark master.
5-Villain executes minion for failing on his mission/bringing bad news.
6-?
7-Don't profit.

On the other hand, Aizen may be a comissar! He can instantly execute a member of his own team to restore the moral of the (very few now) remaining ones! Or perhaps a nob leader with a boss pole would be more acurate.

[horngeek]

On getting the manga: One Manga has Bleach Scanslations. Try that site.

On Aizen: As I've said, I believe he has a plan, that possibly requires the deaths of the Espada.

[The Evil Thing]

On Aizen: As I've said, I believe he has a plan, that possibly requires the deaths of the Espada.
Yeah, I occasionally wonder if Kubo isn't just teasing us by only pretending to make the characters as generic as they come.

The question is, if Aizen has more to him than we're led to believe (and you have to be a bit dull not to see his big betrayal coming a mile away), does that make him more of a Revan or a Lelouch?

[horngeek]

...

both. He is both.

[Lord of Rapture]

Huh? I don't know what you guys mean.

[Oslecamo]

does that make him more of a Revan or a Lelouch?

I don't know anything about Revan, but Aizen surely isn't Lulu, who focuses in keeping a healthy wall of minions between him and danger, and, you know, likes to persuade/brainwash people to work for him, instead of going around randomly creating enemies for no good.

[TheSummoner]

On getting the manga: One Manga has Bleach Scanslations. Try that site.

On Aizen: As I've said, I believe he has a plan, that possibly requires the deaths of the Espada.

Its possible, but the only one thats been suggested so far is that their souls would be sufficient in creating the King's Key. If this were the case, why use one of your last remaining minions when theres a field full of enemies, almost all of which are guaranteed to be weaker than you?

Another possibility is that the battle is just another big distraction and his only intended purpose for the Espada was to draw out the shinigami without any concern over whether they were killed or not... In which case, I would guess his target is the soul society itself, which is now pretty much unguarded (bout half of the captains are in Hueco Mundo and the other half are right where Aizen can see them)... Come to think of it, I haven't seen Wonderweiss in a while... has he been shown in the manga lately?

(I'll check out the site when I get a chance, thanks.)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Revan was still a bad guy, even if he had restraint and non-selfish motivations.

Whatever way you look at it, Aizen is a complete bastard. The only way he could be justified would be if there was an even bigger bastard and he had no choice but to use such methods against him.

[Mystic Muse]

@ 1 above the one above.

wonderweiss is dead I believe.That's the one that didn't really speak and looked kind of crazy right?

Also I think Onepiece is kind of lame. It's taking too long to finish the story and some of the updates don't really add to the story.

Either Naruto or shaman king is my favorite manga. I gave up on DBZ around the android 17 and 18 arc.

the only problem with Naruto is the current fight. It's either going to have Sasuke die and the manga end rather anticlimactically or Sasuke's going to win. And because Sasuke and Naruto were "destine to fight." Sasuke will automatically win in the battle with the five kages. There will probably be rather significant casualties but he will win.

I'm also convinced Sasuke is a moron.

[MammonAzrael]

I'm also convinced Sasuke is a moron.

You've got it wrong, Sasuke is a Deadpool-level genius. He keeps being a douche and throwing himself into these idiotic situations because he knows he can't lose. He has discovered the almighty PLOT ARMOR jutsu.

OT: While it would indeed be stupid if Aizen killed her just because holding off three captains made her "weak," I like the triple cross idea. Though that doesn't really explain why he has been such a colossal ****.

[Mystic Muse]

You've got it wrong, Sasuke is a Deadpool-level genius. He keeps being a douche and throwing himself into these idiotic situations because he knows he can't lose. He has discovered the almighty PLOT ARMOR jutsu.
.

no. I don't mean about who he's facing. I mean because his brother wanted to PREVENT Konoha from being destroyed not nuke it. Yet that's what he wanted to do. Of course Pein deprived him of that joy by destroying it first.

is it Pein or Pain? I've seen it spelled both ways.

[Fostire]

no. I don't mean about who he's facing. I mean because his brother wanted to PREVENT Konoha from being destroyed not nuke it. Yet that's what he wanted to do. Of course Pein deprived him of that joy by destroying it first.

is it Pein or Pain? I've seen it spelled both ways.

I've only seen it spelled as pain, which makes more sense since (I think) he gave himself the name.

[Revanmal]

Yes, his name is Pain. Pein was a misspelling due, I think, to the specific Japanese character his name was spelled with. Apparently it used the general '-ei' not '-ai' -ay sound symbol.

[KnightDisciple]

Its possible, but the only one thats been suggested so far is that their souls would be sufficient in creating the King's Key. If this were the case, why use one of your last remaining minions when theres a field full of enemies, almost all of which are guaranteed to be weaker than you?

Another possibility is that the battle is just another big distraction and his only intended purpose for the Espada was to draw out the shinigami without any concern over whether they were killed or not... In which case, I would guess his target is the soul society itself, which is now pretty much unguarded (bout half of the captains are in Hueco Mundo and the other half are right where Aizen can see them)... Come to think of it, I haven't seen Wonderweiss in a while... has he been shown in the manga lately?

(I'll check out the site when I get a chance, thanks.)

On the souls thing, remember that the Arrancar we're dealing with here are composed of lots of souls. At the minimum, it's thousands. At the high end, it may approach a million or more.

Whereas the captains, strong as they are, are still singular souls.

[Lord Seth]

Yes, his name is Pain. Pein was a misspelling due, I think, to the specific Japanese character his name was spelled with. Apparently it used the general '-ei' not '-ai' -ay sound symbol.Well, his name in Japanese, ペイン, phonetically is pronounced "pain" (well, not exactly the same, but very close) but if the words are romanized in the normal fashion, they spell out "pein". As scanlators don't have a direct line to the creator of the series, they have to guess on such things and usually go for the romanization.

[GoufCustom]

Personally, I think One Piece is the best shonen series, bar none. The characters are interesting and compelling, and the story, while long, keep managing to intrigue me with new things that fit perfectly into the setting. I <3 it.

On the subject of Aizen... yeah, he's a complete jerk. But I, for one, like his Kick The Dog moments.

On the subject of Sasuke... I don't like him. I actually don't like Naruto either, I wish the series was actually about the secondary characters. Especially Rock Lee. And the series would have been so much better if Kishimoto didn't have a massive love affair with the sharingan.

[Rogue 7]

Honestly, he's gotten over it lately. Sasuke has been, to borrow a term from the Something Awful word filter, a rear end in a top hat. Sasuke's set up as a proper @$$&*($ villain as opposed to just a really misguided idiot- he's getting very dark, and I'm enjoying it.


With regards to the recent chapters, I really don't think Sasuke's going to win in the sense of killing the 5 kages- especially since that will mean killing Gaara, and that would force me to seek out Masashi Kishimoto and brutally murder him. Rather, it really looks like he's going to have to rabbit. The Raikage did a number on him, and Susano-O does not look like the sort of long-term thing one can use efficiently. Taking them all on one-on-one, especially since the Tsuchikage doesn't look like he cares at all, is feasible for running, but if he's going to try and kill everyone, he's in deep dog doo-doo. But then, I feel like Kishimoto's more or less recovered from the funk the manga was in around the Itachi fight. Even Pain's mass-revival jutsu didn't bug me very much.


I'm just glad Naruto's gained a much better sense of pace and characterization while Bleach has done nothing but gone downhill. There was a time when I thought Bleach was the better-done manga, but that's radically changed now. And since I'd always preferred Naruto, I'm happy about that.

[Vic_Sage]

wonderweiss is dead I believe.That's the one that didn't really speak and looked kind of crazy right?
Wonderweiss isn't dead, he was just knocked out by Kamen Rider VIzard.

[Mystic Muse]

Wonderweiss isn't dead, he was just knocked out by Kamen Rider VIzard.

my fault. I misinterpret things in manga sometimes.

@ rogue 7

I just wish what he was doing was a bit more logical. I like being able to see where each character is coming from, even the badguys. I can't do that with Sasuke because of his jump to conclusions mat.:smalltongue: just kidding. The problem is I can't see where Sasuke is coming from at all at this point. I could see him getting revenge on Itachi pretty easy. The way he currently is now though isn't making any sense to me.

I don't mean win in him killing the Kages. I just mean win in the sense that even with all five Kages he can't die because him and Naruto "are destined to fight." I think the series can only end one or two ways at this point. Either Sasuke's going to finish the job he started and kill Naruto or Naruto is going to have to kill Sasuke. I don't see any other outcome at this point. If you can tell me of one please do so but for now I feel like nothing short of a deus ex machina (mass revive jutsu anybody?:smallsigh:) is going to make the series end in both Sasuke and Naruto alive..

[golentan]

I just wish what he was doing was a bit more logical. I like being able to see where each character is coming from, even the badguys. I can't do that with Sasuke because of his jump to conclusions mat.:smalltongue: just kidding. The problem is I can't see where Sasuke is coming from at all at this point. I could see him getting revenge on Itachi pretty easy. The way he currently is now though isn't making any sense to me.

I don't mean win in him killing the Kages. I just mean win in the sense that even with all five Kages he can't die because him and Naruto "are destined to fight." I think the series can only end one or two ways at this point. Either Sasuke's going to finish the job he started and kill Naruto or Naruto is going to have to kill Sasuke. I don't see any other outcome at this point. If you can tell me of one please do so but for now I feel like nothing short of a deus ex machina (mass revive jutsu anybody?:smallsigh:) is going to make the series end in both Sasuke and Naruto alive..

Sorry, I just feel the need to say this.

How do you tell a naruto fan? Say the word "Naruto" and see who complains. (alternate punchline: Say the word "Sasuke" and see who shoots you)

Edit: Wow, I'm helping derail my own thread. A new low.

[Ganurath]

Wonderweiss isn't dead, he was just knocked out by Kamen Rider VIzard Hollow Haruhi.For now, Wonderweiss is as dead as Captain Tuberculosis: Fatally wounded, and will probably die after the battle.

[TheSummoner]

I dunno... Hes got to have some greater purpose, otherwise why would Aizen have created him? (possible hes fulfilled it but I havent seen it since no manga... yet)

[Lord of Rapture]

Personally, I gave up on Bleach a long time ago, along with any hopes of it getting any better. Naruto and One Piece are so lame and brain-dead it hurts. So far, Fullmetal Alchemist and Mahou Sensei Negima are the only shonen manga that don't suck, and both are totally awesome.

[Xallace]

Personally, I gave up on Bleach a long time ago, along with any hopes of it getting any better. Naruto and One Piece are so lame and brain-dead it hurts. So far, Fullmetal Alchemist and Mahou Sensei Negima are the only shonen manga that don't suck, and both are totally awesome.

I thought Law of Ueki was pure, undiluted awesome for the first few volumes, perhaps you should give it a go?

[Lord Seth]

Naruto and One Piece are so lame and brain-dead it hurts.While I can understand saying that about Naruto, what's so awful about One Piece?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not that big a fan of One Piece; I thought it started getting boring after Alabasta. But I wouldn't describe it as lame or brain-dead.

[Roxlimn]

Both Hikaru no Go and Initial D are shonen manga and they don't suck. Slam Dunk is pretty good as well. In fact, a fair bit of shonen manga is pretty entertaining.

[Lord Seth]

Hikaru no Go took a drop in quality in the later chapters, though, and the ending was awful. Rather than try to bring about some kind of meaningful conclusion, or any kind of conclusion at all for that matter, the writer just spontaneously said "okay, I'm ending the comic right here. Bye everyone!" It was good for a while, though. I think it started going downhill when
Sai left and Hikaru turned into an angst machine. Now to be fair, he got better, but that's about where I mark the quality drop as starting.

[Revlid]

Personally, I gave up on Bleach a long time ago, along with any hopes of it getting any better. Naruto and One Piece are so lame and brain-dead it hurts. So far, Fullmetal Alchemist and Mahou Sensei Negima are the only shonen manga that don't suck, and both are totally awesome.

MONSTER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTP6nrl1xBk)

Also, Naruto's getting right out of its funk. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/440/17/)

[The Evil Thing]

Both Hikaru no Go and Initial D are shonen manga and they don't suck. Slam Dunk is pretty good as well. In fact, a fair bit of shonen manga is pretty entertaining.
Initial D doesn't have furigana, which I take to mean it's supposed to be seinen. Then we have the whole Natsuki enjo kosai thing.


MONSTER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTP6nrl1xBk)
Ugh... Let me guess, Kaizoku Fansubs?

[Indon]

Whatever way you look at it, Aizen is a complete bastard. The only way he could be justified would be if there was an even bigger bastard and he had no choice but to use such methods against him.

Clearly, this series will feature God is Evil at some point.

A big theme in the series is synthesizing the two halves of the soul, the upper (embodied by shinigami) and the lower (embodied by hollows).

I think Aizen will lose when someone becomes a perfect half-hollow, half-shinigami, and still retains their humanity. Aizen himself may quite possibly become a standard perfected half-hollow.


I think the series can only end one or two ways at this point. Either Sasuke's going to finish the job he started and kill Naruto or Naruto is going to have to kill Sasuke. I don't see any other outcome at this point. If you can tell me of one please do so but for now I feel like nothing short of a deus ex machina (mass revive jutsu anybody?:smallsigh:) is going to make the series end in both Sasuke and Naruto alive..

This impression is most certainly intended on the part of the author. I imagine the manga will end with both alive. The question is, how will the author pull it off?

I think the execution of that endgame will mean the difference between marking Naruto as a good manga, and a great one.

[Revlid]

Ugh... Let me guess, Kaizoku Fansubs?

...I uh, don't know. I just typed in "One Piece Awesome" into Youtube, and linked the result, while calling the guy deriding One Piece a monster.

[Xallace]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not that big a fan of One Piece; I thought it started getting boring after Alabasta. But I wouldn't describe it as lame or brain-dead.

Enes Lobby was one of the best things ever, so if you can make it through Skypia it's totally worth it.

After that? Eh....

[Mystic Muse]

...I uh, don't know. I just typed in "One Piece Awesome" into Youtube, and linked the result, while calling the guy deriding One Piece a monster.

I disagree with the "onepiece is awesome" sentiment.

I'm sorry but the series has gotten so boring. Nothing seems to be happening and Ace getting kidnapped wasn't all that interesting anyway. the only interesting thing in this arc was when Ivankov turned the one guy into a girl.

and that part was mroe freaky than interesting.

Enies lobby was good. Skypia sucked and so did the whole island with moria.

[Poison_Fish]

I disagree with the "onepiece is awesome" sentiment.

I'm sorry but the series has gotten so boring. Nothing seems to be happening and Ace getting kidnapped wasn't all that interesting anyway. the only interesting thing in this arc was when Ivankov turned the one guy into a girl.

and that part was mroe freaky than interesting.

Enies lobby was good. Skypia sucked and so did the whole island with moria.

and it sucked because..?

Honestly I don't see what's gotten boring about it. If anything, it's been a steady climb of epic after epic. Also Thriller Bark was one of the best arcs in my opinion because 1. The introduction of the musician of the crew 2. The strawhat crew fighting oz 3. The laughs 4. Overall, epic on top of epic.

[Innis Cabal]

I'd agree with most of the above. Though....Brook to me is sorta boring.

[Lord of Rapture]

While I can understand saying that about Naruto, what's so awful about One Piece?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not that big a fan of One Piece; I thought it started getting boring after Alabasta. But I wouldn't describe it as lame or brain-dead.

It's so cheesy and corny and yet still tries to shoehorn in drama and tragedy every once in a while that it ends up a big, stupid mess.

If it was just cheesy and corny, I wouldn't have any problem with it. But in this case, it's like Lucky Star banging its head on the wall and forgetting it isn't Monster.

[Poison_Fish]

It's so cheesy and corny and yet still tries to shoehorn in drama and tragedy every once in a while that it ends up a big, stupid mess.

If it was just cheesy and corny, I wouldn't have any problem with it. But in this case, it's like Lucky Star banging its head on the wall and forgetting it isn't Monster.

Epic and drama can also be cheesy and corny while still being enjoyable. I find your complaint invalid.

[horngeek]

Same here.

I don't read Once Peice much (heck, out of the three of Bleach, OP and Naruto, I've only read Naruto all the way through), but it's pretty good.

Mind, I'm easily satisfied.

[Lord of Rapture]

Epic and drama can also be cheesy and corny while still being enjoyable. I find your complaint invalid.

Show me. I haven't seen any.

It's the same problem TTGL had. It was totally awesome and epic... until Kamina died, Simon got all angsty for an episode, the plot starting getting darker, and everything went to heck.

[Mystic Muse]

and it sucked because..?


boring stupid enemies and a badguy that was physically incapable of damaging Luffy. They gained pretty much nothing from that arc.

the only thing I liked about thriller bark was that Zoro got his new sword. I hated pretty much everything else. especially Moria.

[Cubey]

It's the same problem TTGL had.

And it really shows how different opinions can be, because for many, me being one of them, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann starts only getting more awesome after the fated 8th episode.

But hey, opinions are a cool thing to have, even if they differ, as long as nobody tries to sell theirs as objective truth. And nobody in this thread tries to, right?

[Poison_Fish]

Show me. I haven't seen any.

It's the same problem TTGL had. It was totally awesome and epic... until Kamina died, Simon got all angsty for an episode, the plot starting getting darker, and everything went to heck.

Don't you like 40k? I think that should speak for itself.

Regardless, I'd say TTGL was different as that was intentional on the part of the creators. Considering that each section was divided up as homages to different periods of mecha, unlike One Piece, which has remained consistent with what it has delivered and hasn't deviated much from it's formula. Some may find that specifically a complaint, but I enjoy it. Even more so, the drama is handled differently compared to TTGL, where dramatic moments that are meant to make the reader b'awwww do so, but at the same time are still full of comedy. Have you seen what their faces look like when tears are streaming everywhere?


boring stupid enemies and a badguy that was physically incapable of damaging Luffy. They gained pretty much nothing from that arc.

the only thing I liked about thriller bark was that Zoro got his new sword. I hated pretty much everything else. especially Moria.

They gained a musician, the reputation of beating the crap out of another government affiliate, and a bunch of treasure. That sounds like a worthy haul to me.

[nothingclever]

MONSTER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTP6nrl1xBk)

Also, Naruto's getting right out of its funk. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/440/17/)
You've just captured why both are so horrible with those links.

I couldn't stand that extremely contrived nonsense that is clearly aimed for little kids in that One Piece video. One Piece is terrible. I hate the "everything is so epic" response. Things are made "epic/amazing/whatever" the same way every time. Everyone screams things and gets extremely emotional and they call out all their moves. That's just Dragonball Z all over again. The author also throws in stupid character designs and ridiculous action sequences that are supposed to be cool but the just come off as trying too hard to be zany/out there/shocking/funny. Plus One Piece is often all about stupid reaction images and reveals that are simply stupid. It's like watching a Soap Opera that's gone on too long.

"OMG LUFFY IS RELATED TO X PERSON!!!"
"X PERSON IS RELATED TO Y PERSON!!!"
*Insert 1000 reaction images and commentary by nobodies*
"Ehhhhhhhhh?!"
"No way!"
"He's the son of X?! That explains why he knows Y!!"
"Wow, no wonder he's like that!"
"Gasp, that explains everything!"

"I WON'T LET YOU HURT MY FRIENDS AND I'M GOING TO PHYSICALLY DEFY YOU IF YOU TRY!!!"
*Insert 1000 reaction images and commentary by nobodies*
"Wow, he's brave!"
"Wow, Luffy's a true friend!"
"Omg, I am so moved by his speech!"
"Wow, he really has guts!"
"Omg, does Luffy know what he's saying?! He's up against infamous marine officer #1432434252!!!"
"No one ever escapes infamous marine officer #1432434252!!!"

I also don't see why you say Naruto is getting out of its slump by posting an old chapter when the recent ones show it is still in a slump. Emo Sasuke is still emo. All the other characters are just there to show how powerful he is. People on 4chan were very enthusiastic when they saw the Raikage act badass and stand up to Sasuke for a while but inevitably he lost an arm and got taken out of the fight and put on the sidelines while Sasuke just got more powerful.

[Vic_Sage]

Who else wants Emo forever stricken from the English language?

[nothingclever]

Who else wants Emo forever stricken from the English language?
I don't. It's highly useful. Sasuke is an emo. He is very emotional. His whole reason for doing what he does is emotion. He says it himself. "I'm so consumed by hatred I won't listen to anything. Angst, angst angst. I have to kill all your parents and friends before you can begin to understand how I feel!!"

It's like saying you want the colour blue stricken from the English language in this case. It fits perfectly.

[Poison_Fish]

I give NC 1/10 for only describing the current arc of One Piece. Your lacking a lot of screaming.

Also, as I said earlier, I like it's formulaic story. I don't think anyone is looking for the Mona Lisa of manga/anime here, since we are talking long running shonen manga.

[horngeek]

Also, Emo doesn't always mean bad.

I mean, I'm one of the guys that thinks Sasuke should die horribly, but it's a matter of loving to hate him.

[Mystic Muse]

Do
They gained a musician, the reputation of beating the crap out of another government affiliate, and a bunch of treasure. That sounds like a worthy haul to me.

I meant that they gained almost nothing at skypia.

[Johel]

I don't. It's highly useful. Sasuke is an emo. He is very emotional. His whole reason for doing what he does is emotion. He says it himself. "I'm so consumed by hatred I won't listen to anything. Angst, angst angst. I have to kill all your parents and friends before you can begin to understand how I feel!!"

It's like saying you want the colour blue stricken from the English language in this case. It fits perfectly.

Didn't read the last chapters but that sounds more like Pain before naruto "tell him that he's not nice and that things can change"

By the way, I went blank when reading that part of the manga.
Sort of "-...what ? He's just blown a whole city, harvested the souls of a good dozen people, killed who-know-how-many others...and he let a 15 years old kid talk him out of a scheme that took something like 15 years to be pull out ?!! WTH ?! He is not crazy, he's a retard !! Won't read more."

Also, why didn't they ressurect Jiraya, too ? He died because of Pain, too.

[Mystic Muse]

Also, why didn't they ressurect Jiraya, too ? He died because of Pain, too.

better question. Why'd they ressurect anybody at all?! It was fine for Gaara. Then it was unique, could only affect one person and you had a requirement of giving up your own life. With him it was clear if he'd had more Chakra he would have survived and he resurrected EVERYBODY who'd died. /rant

let it be known I enjoy Naruto. This part was just painful though.

[Fiery Diamond]

Shouldn't we stay on the topic of Bleach?...

...

Please?


I for one really like Bleach. Aizen is a bastard, we know. I actually find many of the ways people make fun of Bleach to be amusing and I appreciate them. If you go to the Onemanga forums and check out the threads from the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, you'll see a bunch of people calling Ichigo "Holy Lord Ichigo" and discussing his immortality. Good-natured mockery can be healthy. I don't see why this has to mean we think it's a bad series.

In response to things in this thread - I think the whole "needs hollows to die" and "illusion/distraction" possibilities make sense. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.

[Vic_Sage]

Oi, you had to bring up the Ichigo/Ulquiorra, worst end to a fight in Bleach. Wait, I forgot Grand Fisher's final fight.

[Primal Fury]

What makes you say that Vic Sage?

Oh! And Aizen was a bad, bad man for what he did. Not only did he kill what might be one of, if not the, most resiliant Espada (as was said before took on 2 to 3 captain level shinigami on her freaking own). She was also very hot (dark skin? blonde hair? green eyes? and huge... tracks of land? you really suck for that Aizen :smallyuk:). And watching hot women get killed makes me a sad fire-breathing panda. :smallfrown:

[horngeek]

Kurosaki Issin became awesome in that fight.

[Lord Seth]

Show me. I haven't seen any.

It's the same problem TTGL had. It was totally awesome and epic... until Kamina died, Simon got all angsty for an episode, the plot starting getting darker, and everything went to heck....and then became awesome and epic again.


better question. Why'd they ressurect anybody at all?! It was fine for Gaara. Then it was unique, could only affect one person and you had a requirement of giving up your own life. With him it was clear if he'd had more Chakra he would have survived and he resurrected EVERYBODY who'd died. /rant

let it be known I enjoy Naruto. This part was just painful though.That was the last straw for me, and when I officially gave up on Naruto. The series had been lame and boring for quite some time now; after the initial arc after the time skip it just started going downhill more and more. But that was such an outrageous and stupid deus ex machina that I said "screw it, I'm not wasting time with this."

It reminded me of the utter idiocy that happened at the end of the Ruby/Sapphire arc of the normally quite high quality Pokemon Adventures/Pocket Monsters Special manga:Out of literally nowhere, Ruby reveals that he has Jirachi, which pretty much resets all the deaths and stops the destruction. It was one of the dumbest deus ex machinas I've ever seen.But at least Pokemon Adventures was otherwise a good enough comic that I was able to get past just how stupid that was. Naruto I had been losing interest in ever since how lamely Deidara was killed.

[Vic_Sage]

Kurosaki Issin became awesome in that fight.
Yeah but it was a lame end for Fisher.

[Kaez]

Yeah Aizen is a bastard, and for doing what he did to Harribel, well I see where he is coming from.

With Stark dead (or dying), Barragan dead, and Harribel ONLY holding off some captains (not killing them), Aizen deduced that they just couldn't handle the captains as he thought before, or at least with Espada. I figure himself, Gin and Tousen can do a lot of damage, roll some nice crits on people and move on :P

That's a good theory on why he allowed the top 2 espada to get slaughtered, and why he attacked #3, they do have a lot of souls :P. Shame he didn't take Yammy with him though, but I see I don't see the people in HM beating Yammy, unless they all teamed up. Ichigo barely beat the 4th (he cheated though), Kenpachi beat 5th, but I doubt he would've beat Ulquirroa (I never can spell his name right) and I doubt the other captains are strong enough (I mean Byakuya Kuchiki only took out the 7th espada, and Ichigo is stronger than him, so I doubt he could handle anything more then Grimmjow (if he's lucky) and Mayuri, well... he's clever, I have a hunch he could do a fair bit of damage.

~Edit~

Ah but the Grand Fisher was a natural Arrancer, it's not like Aizen used the Hōgyoku on him. Therefore he died with relative ease.

[Vic_Sage]

It was still really ****ing lame for Fisher to go out in one hit.

[Mystic Muse]

...and then became awesome and epic again.

That was the last straw for me, and when I officially gave up on Naruto. The series had been lame and boring for quite some time now; after the initial arc after the time skip it just started going downhill more and more. But that was such an outrageous and stupid deus ex machina that I said "screw it, I'm not wasting time with this."



I hadn't started reading until about then so I got off lucky.:smallbiggrin:

I watched the anime and wanted to wait until the manga ended but decided to read it anyway.

[TheSummoner]

Ulquirroa (I never can spell his name right)

You're pretty damn close though... Ulquiorra... Just got the O in the wrong place.

On a less pointless note, that fight really pissed me off... I actually liked Ulquiorra as a character and to see him taken out because the protagonist is a cheating bastard... Anyone else find it odd that #4 had two releases (essentially Arrancar Bankai), but none of the four stronger than him can do it?

[Zeful]

Show me. I haven't seen any.

It's the same problem TTGL had. It was totally awesome and epic... until Kamina died, Simon got all angsty for an episode, the plot starting getting darker, and everything went to heck.

So story's can't change genre? Because that sounds like what you're saying.

I've never watched TTGL, I'm not going to start but I know several pieces of serious literature that start as one genre and change genre after they finish setting up the plot, or introducing the characters, or during the climax. A story is not bound by the genre it is most easily classified as. A story that does not have high or low points is stagnant and uninteresting, and in my opinion, not worth the paper it's written on.

You're free to not like a story because of the use of ups and downs, in any fashion you find disheartening: I can't physically read Air Gear after the Incident with Sleeping Forest in the "tower", and there are still over one-hundred chapters after that (which incidently is why I'm not spoilering it and simply leaving it vauge) that could solve the problems I have with the story (well, some of them, the implied rape in the first chapters, pissed me off, and still does).


Oi, you had to bring up the Ichigo/Ulquiorra, worst end to a fight in Bleach. Wait, I forgot Grand Fisher's final fight.Grand fisher wasn't even a menos, going up against a Captain. It was suicide, plain and simple. The worst part of the Isshun being a shinigami was that it proved Ruika right that Ichigo's mom died because it was hunting him.


But that was such an outrageous and stupid deus ex machina that I said "screw it, I'm not wasting time with this."

God as Machine? Not really, because you know, the power was the same one he used to revive his "Paths", just bigger. You might think it's an Asspull (the correct term, by the way as DEM more or less requires an outside force to fix the problem, like Kakashi's dad, rather than Pain who was an important part of the story at the time), but like Tsunade's "super strength" and the Shinra Tensai, I expected it since the base ability was shown. So I don't think it's either.

[MammonAzrael]

Anyone else find it odd that #4 had two releases (essentially Arrancar Bankai), but none of the four stronger than him can do it?

Remember that the Espada aren't ranked according to individual strength, but by how much damage they can cause*. While generally overall strength would dictate how much destruction they could cause, their abilities tie in heavily. Which is why Yammy and Stark are the top two. Stark can spam Ceros like no one, and Yammy has (presumably) the ability to such out souls in an even greater fashion in his "0" form (Plus probably a lot more).

Add on to that that no one, not even Aizen, knew about Ulquiorra's second transformation. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/348/10/)

*Can't find a citation, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere in the manga...

[Fiery Diamond]

Yeah, I was sad that Ulquiorra died like that too. He was a good character.

Also, very valid point about Aizen not knowing, which is probably why Ulqy didn't rank higher.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Who else wants Emo forever stricken from the English language?

Me.


Yeah but it was a lame end for Fisher.

He deserved a lame end.


Anyone else find it odd that #4 had two releases (essentially Arrancar Bankai), but none of the four stronger than him can do it?

They weren't necessaraly stronger than him at all. Just stronger than him in his first release.

But then again, Ikkaku and Renji can both bankai but are weaker than Zaraki who can't.

[horngeek]

Neither have gone up against Zaraki when they had Bankai.

And Ikkaku has displayed no interest in taking 11th squad captaincy, so we never will know.

The best crack theory out there on Bleach says that Zaraki is Yachiru's Bankai.

[Fiery Diamond]

The best crack theory out there on Bleach says that Zaraki is Yachiru's Bankai.

...

That is awesome.

[horngeek]

Best line of that fic:

"See, Yachiru's Bankai...

She calls it Ken-Chan."

I forget the fic's name, or I'd have linked it here.

[Ganurath]

I'm rather fond of my theory that it's 11th Squad tradition to have an unrequeted crush on your closest superior of the same gender.

[Zeful]

Best line of that fic:

"See, Yachiru's Bankai...

She calls it Ken-Chan."

I forget the fic's name, or I'd have linked it here.

There's Something About Zaraki (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3407565/1/Theres_Something_About_Zaraki)

There you go.

[Oslecamo]

The best crack theory out there on Bleach says that Zaraki is Yachiru's Bankai.

So she's actually both a loli super-warrior AND master-brainwasher, able to give Zakari a whole life of fake memories?

I think that's too over the top even for Bleach.

[Prime32]

I'm rather fond of my theory that it's 11th Squad tradition to have an unrequeted crush on your closest superior of the same gender.Was my RP character doing it wrong then? :smallconfused:

(Also, is anyone playing her now that I'm gone or did she just vanish from the story? :smalltongue:)



So she's actually both a loli super-warrior AND master-brainwasher, able to give Zakari a whole life of fake memories?

I think that's too over the top even for Bleach.Huh? Fake memories? They've been together a long time, and Zaraki's past before that is pretty much a blur of beating people up (I doubt he remembers much about it).

The opposite is also a popular theory - Yachiru is Kenpachi's zanpakuto.

[Oslecamo]

Huh? Fake memories? They've been together a long time, and Zaraki's past before that is pretty much a blur of beating people up (I doubt he remembers much about it).
He does remember stoping his killing spree to take care of a certain abandoned litle girl.



The opposite is also a popular theory - Yachiru is Kenpachi's zanpakuto.

Altough that's a funny tought, what's the trouble people have with Kenpachi simply being the supreme normal badass, beating the crap out of everybody whitout needing any shiny tricks?

[horngeek]

I say one word: They're both Crack theories.

Although I think I've seen the second actually argued.

[The Evil Thing]

That's four words, I say.

I sort of agree: the second is actually plausible on a certain level.

[Zeful]

Altough that's a funny tought, what's the trouble people have with Kenpachi simply being the supreme normal badass, beating the crap out of everybody whitout needing any shiny tricks?

What's fun about that theory is that it keeps Kenpachi's character the same. He's still the same supreme badass who doesn't need shiny tricks to win because he's so powerful, but it explains pretty much the whole of Yachiru's existence. Why would a tiny pink haired girl be so unafraid of a hulking kill-happy monster?

[horngeek]

The first, on the other hand, is pure Crack.

[TheSummoner]

What's fun about that theory is that it keeps Kenpachi's character the same. He's still the same supreme badass who doesn't need shiny tricks to win because he's so powerful, but it explains pretty much the whole of Yachiru's existence. Why would a tiny pink haired girl be so unafraid of a hulking kill-happy monster?

Because she was too young and tiny to know better when she first met him and has been exposed to him ever since.

[Primal Fury]

Because she was too young and tiny to know better when she first met him and has been exposed to him ever since.

While your reasoning is very sensible, it is also very boring. Ken as Yachiru's bankai would be friggin' awesome.

[Demons_eye]

Maybe we will see Kens Sword in the new filler arch?

[Kaez]

Doubt we will ever see his release.... ever. Although he wished that he and his sword could work together after his fight with Ichigo, but I assume he pretty much gave up on it. Otherwise I would assume his sword wouldn't be as jaggedy and be more like a normal sword if they started communing.

I doubt Yachiru's bankai is Kenpachi, and vice versa. That would be huge strain on spirt pressure I could only imagine.

[horngeek]

Was my RP character doing it wrong then? :smallconfused:

(Also, is anyone playing her now that I'm gone or did she just vanish from the story? :smalltongue:)

No, she hasn't. HZ is playing her.

[Prime32]

No, she hasn't. HZ is playing her.At least she's in good hands. You know, I never did PM him that...

[horngeek]

Then you should probably do so. :smalltongue:

[Aron Times]

This is probably going to get ninja'd, but...

The latest anime filler arc is really good. The story is well written and the action well animated. The filler BBEG, Muramasa, is a much better Magnificent Bastard than Aizen because he actually does something and he actually has some weaknesses, i.e. he's not overpowered.

Apparently, he has to regularly devour Vasto-Lorde level hollows just to stay alive.

I've basically stopped reading the manga regularly and switched to the anime.

[Kaez]

LOL they are not Vasto Lordes, as they are too rare and far between to even be included. Even Aizen hasn't found one yet (Maybe, I have a feeling Barragin was a Vasto Lorde, as it was stated most Vasto Lordes we're more humanoid than Adjuchas. No, I think he's on a search for something to combat Ichigo's Hollow powers (and now Zangestu as well).

[Prime32]

Then you should probably do so. :smalltongue:Done. Cuboid construction materials shall be emitted from rectums. :smallbiggrin:

[horngeek]

WHAT?

:smalleek:

[TheSummoner]

I was under the impression that Ulquiorra was a Vasto Lorde (during the initial explanation of the three levels of Menos, the camera on him when they were explaining the Vaste Lorde) and if that were the case its a fairly safe bet that the ones stronger than him were as well... and Grimmjow had the potential to become one (whether or not he made it is unknown though)...

[horngeek]

I'm almost of the opinion that Grimmjow made it, but then again, he seems a little weak.

I'd probably say only the top 4.

[TheSummoner]

Grimmjows an interesting one...

Zomarri was a complete pushover so that could be explained by Zommari and any weaker being Adjuchas and Grimmjow being a Vasto Lorde... But Grimmjow is far outclassed by Ulquiorra (and possibly Nnoitra, but considering Grimmjow's condition at the time its a bit harder to judge), which could be explained by him being an Adjuchas and the stronger Espada being Vasto Lorde...

Another possibility is he made it but became an Arrancar shortly afterward and didn't grow as powerful as the rest before the transformation...

[Kaez]

I get what you mean about the Menos level explanation, but at the same time the Adjuchas class looked a lot like Yammy, so you can't base it off that at all :P.

I'm fairly certain Grimmjow was an adjuchas, a VERY strong one, but never higher than that. Also, if the top 4 we're Vasto Lordes turned Espada, then the Captains in the fake town wouldn't have lived as long as they did. Yeah the arrival of the visoreds kinda offset that, but at the same time

Stark was only taken down by a Shikai of all things, and he was 1st and in a released form

I believe the only two Vasto Lordes would have to be Barragan (original ruler of Las Noches) and Yammy.

[horngeek]

I... really don't think Stark's dead.

I mean, yeah, he got the flashback, but he's awesome enough for a comeback in spite of that.

[TheSummoner]

We don't know that Starrk is dead yet. Also, Kyoraku is one of the strongest captains so even if Starrk is dead, its not like he wasn't against a powerful opponent.

[chiasaur11]

I... really don't think Stark's dead.

I mean, yeah, he got the flashback, but he's awesome enough for a comeback in spite of that.

Of course Stark is alive.

I mean, he has to be if he's going to fight Whiplash.

[Kaez]

I wasn't basing his death on the flashback, I was basing it off Aizens actions to Harribel.

[Mystic Muse]

Tony stark isn't dead! or is he? I don't read Iron man.:smalltongue:

I just like purposely misinterpreting things. >_>

[chiasaur11]

Tony stark isn't dead! or is he? I don't read Iron man.:smalltongue:

I just like purposely misinterpreting things. >_>

No, but he's steadily erasing his own memory.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm pretty sure that 4-1 were all Vaste Lords and Yammy was just an adjucas. Yammy is only no 0 when he releases and he needs to spend ages charging up energy in order to do that.

[Rogue 7]

WHAT?

:smalleek:

Are you familiar with the expression "$#^* a brick"?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Grimmjows an interesting one...

Zomarri was a complete pushover so that could be explained by Zommari and any weaker being Adjuchas and Grimmjow being a Vasto Lorde... But Grimmjow is far outclassed by Ulquiorra (and possibly Nnoitra, but considering Grimmjow's condition at the time its a bit harder to judge), which could be explained by him being an Adjuchas and the stronger Espada being Vasto Lorde...

Another possibility is he made it but became an Arrancar shortly afterward and didn't grow as powerful as the rest before the transformation...

Zomarri was a pushover because of who he was fighting which makes his fight a bad judge of strength.

Also, Starrk definitely isn't done yet. A Vasto Lorde level natural arrancar taken down by a shikai? Not likely. Especially since when Love hit him, Starrk just laid on the ground and almost played dead because he thought it was hopeless.

In another point, if Yammy really is number 0 then there is still someone in Hueco Mundo who can fight him...Retsu Unohana. She is the third strongest shinigami (after Yamamoto and Aizen of all people who are tied) and actually nears their level of strength. (off overall score by 20 points)

Ukitake and Shunsui are actually weaker then her.

Also, go Kensei!

[GoC]

You mean that Bleach looked interesting in the first episodes, when everyone thought it's going to be different from your standard neverending shonen fighting fare with prolonged fights for no reason, heroes and villains pulling upgrades out of their arse, power levels OVER 9000 and a large cast but most of it being unable to keep up with the power race and thus being completely unimportant?
Ouch...:smalltongue:

[Lord Seth]

Zomarri was a pushover because of who he was fighting which makes his fight a bad judge of strength.

Also, Starrk definitely isn't done yet. A Vasto Lorde level natural arrancar taken down by a shikai? Not likely. Especially since when Love hit him, Starrk just laid on the ground and almost played dead because he thought it was hopeless.

In another point, if Yammy really is number 0 then there is still someone in Hueco Mundo who can fight him...Retsu Unohana. She is the third strongest shinigami (after Yamamoto and Aizen of all people who are tied) and actually nears their level of strength. (off overall score by 20 points)

Ukitake and Shunsui are actually weaker then her.

Also, go Kensei!Where did it say that Unohana was the third strongest Soul Reaper? I don't think we've ever see her fight, so where'd that information come from?

[Berserk Monk]

I just read the latest Bleach. And I find myself asking:

WHY?!

I can understand given the universe trying only to field your strongest units. The world is set up so that infinite mooks will only ever fail. But why the hell would Aizen bother executing his own underlings for not being strong enough? She was at the very least occupying the enemy. Using his surprise attack to kill Harribel is just pointless, murdering waste. So was what he did to Hinamori in soul society for that matter. If he's not going to use anyone but himself and the traitor captains, why did he even bother raising the Arrancar in the first place? If he DOES want an army that's worthwhile, maybe he should stop killing underlings when they don't live up and let them gain some experience. If they don't survive that's one thing, but killing them before they've lost is just moronic. Am I missing something, or has he just built a puppy farm simply to supply him with dogs to kick?

Like practically all animes, just hang a lampshade on it and you'll be fine.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Where did it say that Unohana was the third strongest Soul Reaper? I don't think we've ever see her fight, so where'd that information come from?

One of the art books had 'stats' listed for shinigami characters that ranked Strength, Speed, Kido, Offense, Defensive, Intelligence up to a 100 for each. Aizen and Yamamoto tied off at 560 each while Unohana was placed at 540. Oddly enough her offense was ranked at 100 which isn't too unusual for shinigami captain's but it seemed out of place for a healer character.

Plus there's the fact one of the other captain's (Ukitaki?) said he'd rather be destroyed by Yamamoto's bankai then get on Unohana's badside and that she terrifies 11th Division. Such things are likely to go unexplained.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I love how Tite Kubo gives us a bit of Aizen then goes off in a random direction to deal with the what one Arrancar left on the field.... yeah love applied loosely there.

Even by shonen standards this battle seems ridiculous.

[Fiery Diamond]

I think that 1-4 are Vasto Lorde - I definitely think that Ulqy was, at any rate. Also, Stark. I definitely don't think that Stark is dead.

I like Stark. Ulqy deserved to live, but Stark is just plain cool.

[KnightDisciple]

Zomarri was a pushover because of who he was fighting which makes his fight a bad judge of strength.

Also, Starrk definitely isn't done yet. A Vasto Lorde level natural arrancar taken down by a shikai? Not likely. Especially since when Love hit him, Starrk just laid on the ground and almost played dead because he thought it was hopeless.

In another point, if Yammy really is number 0 then there is still someone in Hueco Mundo who can fight him...Retsu Unohana. She is the third strongest shinigami (after Yamamoto and Aizen of all people who are tied) and actually nears their level of strength. (off overall score by 20 points)

Ukitake and Shunsui are actually weaker then her.

Also, go Kensei!

First: Go Captain Mom! Show us why you kick ass!

Second: Go Kensei! Kick his ass!

[TheSummoner]

Unohana's power is more of an informed ability than anything else... We've never seen her do anything violent or particularly intimidating, but its subtly hinted at several times (for example, she has no problem keeping squad 11 under control when they're being treated for injuries. She can make people stop dead in their tracks by simply looking at them and smiling. Other captains included.

Shes also one of the four captains that have held their position since the formation of the Gotei 13 (The other three are Yamamoto, Kyoraku, and Ukitake). Think of it this way... Squad 4 is the healing squad because she wants it that way. That is the only reason.