Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've been considering getting Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines for the PC after developing an interest in the setting. From what I've told the game has a very well-done story, interesting characters and is so loyal to the setting White Wolf included it as part of its canon.

However, since the game is out of print, and is said to be incredibly buggy, I have some questions about it before I start price hunting.

Downloading it from an online seller seems to be the cheapest and most efficient way to obtain the game. What would be the best site to download it from? Direct2Drive? Steam? I've never downloaded a PC game before, generally sticking with old-fashioned CD-ROMs. Would the fan-made patches work with that kind of a version? If the patches work better with the CD-ROM version, should I go for a "new" one from Amazon.com that costs somewhere in the vicinity of $90, or a used one where I may not be assured of its quality, but will be cheaper?

What patches will I need to download? Will the game work on Vista? Am I overthinking this?

Thank you all for your candor. :smallsmile:

[Nano]

In my experience, it has worked on Vista, and it is a very good game. There are several fan made patches to fix a great deal of the bugs as well, though I couldn't remember where to find you a link.

[loopy]

Its my favorite game ever, and with patches, it plays fine. :smallsmile:

Ventrue for the win, though Malkavians are very entertaining.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Interestingly enough, I was planning on playing as a Ventrue on my first playthrough. They have class.

[jamroar]

I've been considering getting Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines for the PC after developing an interest in the setting. From what I've told the game has a very well-done story, interesting characters and is so loyal to the setting White Wolf included it as part of its canon.

However, since the game is out of print, and is said to be incredibly buggy, I have some questions about it before I start price hunting.

Downloading it from an online seller seems to be the cheapest and most efficient way to obtain the game. What would be the best site to download it from? Direct2Drive? Steam? I've never downloaded a PC game before, generally sticking with old-fashioned CD-ROMs. Would the fan-made patches work with that kind of a version? If the patches work better with the CD-ROM version, should I go for a "new" one from Amazon.com that costs somewhere in the vicinity of $90, or a used one where I may not be assured of its quality, but will be cheaper?

What patches will I need to download? Will the game work on Vista? Am I overthinking this?

Thank you all for your candor. :smallsmile:


It should? You need to run the official patch 1.2 (http://www.planetvampire.com/bloodlines/files/patches/) first (I'm assuming the download version will already be at this version, you should be able to check at the character creation screen). Then install one of the unofficial patches to fix most of the remaining gameplay issues.

There are two mutually exclusive unofficial patches out there, WESP's unofficial patch (http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/EkVFklEFpkdQlklUED.php) and Tessera's "True" VTMB patch. Install either one or the other but not both. I prefer WESP's much more personally.

In the case of WESP, you can apply the Basic patch or Plus patch. The Basic patch mostly focuses on fixing bugs and gameplay issues. The Plus patch also mods in items and content cut in development, adds new content and modifies some game mechanics, possibly changing the game experience and balance.

[chiasaur11]

Steam's always good for downloading. 20 bucks there, so if you don't find a better deal that'd be a solid enough pick.

Oh, and apparently, from what I've read, the first few hours are amazing, but as it goes on the game becomes more and more combat focused, and less, well, good, so...

keep that in mind

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Eh, I've played Oblivion. I won't get bored.

[SparkMandriller]

Yeah, you definitely want to get good with either guns or melee. You can get through most of the game by talking things out or sneaking past enemies, but once you get near the end you're gonna need to be able to do a whole lot of killing. If you haven't got the stats for it, it'll be pretty much impossible, and certainly not fun.

The rest of the game's still awesome, though. Very awesome.

[loopy]

Steam's always good for downloading. 20 bucks there, so if you don't find a better deal that'd be a solid enough pick.

Oh, and apparently, from what I've read, the first few hours are amazing, but as it goes on the game becomes more and more combat focused, and less, well, good, so...

keep that in mind

In my opinion, just the endings were disappointing, forcing my previously talky/sneaky character to fight a lot more than intended.

Other than that, pure class.

[chiasaur11]

Yeah, you definitely want to get good with either guns or melee. You can get through most of the game by talking things out or sneaking past enemies, but once you get near the end you're gonna need to be able to do a whole lot of killing. If you haven't got the stats for it, it'll be pretty much impossible, and certainly not fun.

The rest of the game's still awesome, though. Very awesome.

Of course, you could use cheat codes...

[SparkMandriller]

But cheating would rob you of the feeling of accomplishment that can only be obtained by legitimately completing a video game!



It's the only way I can feel good about myself. :(

[chiasaur11]

But cheating would rob you of the feeling of accomplishment that can only be obtained by legitimately completing a video game!



It's the only way I can feel good about myself. :(

Well, some games have encouraged certain kinds of cheating.

Marathon precedes the level select with the vidmaster's oath, a declaration for the hardest of the hardcore.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Don't worry, I plan on developing my melee. I wanna be able to use that badass-looking Tal'mahe'Ra Blade. :smallcool:

[MickJay]

Melee tends to be more powerful in the early game (few good guns then), but if you develop firearms, they can really spoil the later game by making it too easy :smallwink: Tal'mahe'Ra blade is a bit of a disappointment; it looks just like any other katana, and it doesn't work as advertised; one of the patches addresses the issue, but it still doesn't make it as awesome as it's supposed to be.

There are some easy-to-do exploits and tricks in the game that, while not technically *cheating*, can make the game easier ("free" skill increases at certain points - but you need to have appropriate skill level to get them, little trick with books, knowing which skills you can get from books so you don't spend XP on them, etc).

Ventrue have class but they are, perhaps, a little bland; Tremere have about as much class and more *interesting* disciplines (their blood shield mimics fortitude at 3 dots, if I'm not mistaken, so they aren't fragile, either). For the first playthrough, though, Ventrue might just be the best, you won't discover all the fun stuff right away :smallbiggrin:

[Comet]

I played my first time as a Ventrue. They're indeed classy. And towards the end of the game, when the game turns into an action-fest, they get a badass longcoat to compliment their mad katana skills :smallbiggrin:

I also recommend playing the game as a Malkavian at least once. It really is a completely different experience.

[Jibar]

Only play as a Malkavian after you're finished your first run though.
A lot of the jokes are also spoilers, and it helps to have an understanding of the plot before you see it from a mad man's point of view.

Gotta say though, you're making the right decision. One of the best RPGs I have ever played.

[Eldan]

I played as a sneaky/social Toreador... well once the game started to throw hordes of enemies at me, I got bullettime Celerity to 5 and grabbed a Katana and a flamethrower. Somehow, it worked.

[GolemsVoice]

I also recommend the game, it's great!
And I don't know what you have with the Tal'Ra'sha blade, when I picked t up, boy, there was much slicing people, and a good helping of dicing them as well. But as soon as you pick up the flamethrower, well, the game ends. For everyone else, that is.

[Aricandor]

I'm not sure if this would even constitute a spoiler, but better safe than sorry.

I never played a Ventrue myself, but...
I was given the impression that a certain section of the game becomes outright Nintendo hard due to the Ventrue's clan weakness (you who have done it are bound to know which I'm talking of).

As such, I don't think Ventrue is really that good a choice for a first-timer... Then again, every clan has some issues, so maybe it's not really as bad as I remember it. :smallsmile:

Oh, and it is definitely a most excellent game once you get something to hammer out the bugs!:smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

I also recommend the game, it's great!
And I don't know what you have with the Tal'Ra'sha blade, when I picked t up, boy, there was much slicing people, and a good helping of dicing them as well. But as soon as you pick up the flamethrower, well, the game ends. For everyone else, that is.

Really? I mean, it's pretty much an instakill on most things, but it has, what, four shots? And fuel is expensive. I only used it to kill one boss, and a few random enemies. Couldn't get her down otherwise.

[MickJay]

Tal'mahe'ra is a decent weapon, but not much superior to an ordinary katana, or the bush hook.

Thrower is a nice toy, but of very limited usefulness. You can carry only one spare canister (and it's expensive, too). It works very well on short range, but in the one area where it would be really useful, it's not available yet. It is a very decent opener (or ender) for the later bosses, though.

If you are playing one of the clans with Auspex, going for ranged weapons is the natural choice - you can get Firearms, boosted with Auspex, to 13 (14 with an amulet restored by one of the patches); at that point, you can kill final bosses with two clips from your SMG. Of course, going full melee gives almost as good results, but you still need to get into melee range, while quite a few enemies have nasty ranged attacks.

As for the hard bit for Ventrues, the Odious Chalice can make up for much of the weakness if used wisely. Ventrues do tend to rely on blood packs more than the other clans, though (I've played the game a few times without using any blood packs; they're good for emergencies, but I've never had to actually buy any, those few you can find/get tend to be more than sufficient for me).

[Gundato]

Actually, an obscenely sneaky character is just as easy in the endgame.

My Malk had maxed out Obfuscate (I think, the one that gives invisibility), which basically gave him a "Hide in Plain Sight" power. Didn't work on everyone, but there was something to be said about all the sneak-kills. And grabbing blood was as simple as ambushing and draining one of the guys I wanted to kill.

[MickJay]

The thing is, you mostly get rewarded for sneaky approach in the early-to-middle game, and while maxed obfuscate does beat almost every ordinary opponent until the very end, the (unavoidable) tough figths do require decent combat skills. In this respect, flame thrower can prove to be invaluable for mostly sneaky characters, as its power is almost unaffected by Firearms skill, and the two canisters are enough to bring any boss below 50% health.

[Moonshadow]

How exactly do you patch the game if you bought it off Steam though? :smallconfused:

I tend to play as a female Tremere though... something about that kinda innocent, librarian look just makes it all the more satisfying to play.

Also. Ocean House. Try not to play that part in the dark, that part always gives me the creeps.

[loopy]

I never played a Ventrue myself, but...
I was given the impression that a certain section of the game becomes outright Nintendo hard due to the Ventrue's clan weakness (you who have done it are bound to know which I'm talking of).

As such, I don't think Ventrue is really that good a choice for a first-timer... Then again, every clan has some issues, so maybe it's not really as bad as I remember it. :smallsmile:

Yeah, that part of the game in the middle, in the Hollywood area (or around it) is quite difficult if you are unprepared. All I can say is, BRING LOTS OF BLOOD PACKS, then you shouldn't have a problem. Also, a combat shotgun is a huge plus, especially when you start fighting the bigger beasties.

Sure bullets aren't meant to do much damage to the supernatural, but there aren't many creatures who can survive 6-12 shells delivered at point blank range in a 8 second spread.

Other than that, combat as a ventrue is:
-Find group of mooks.
-activate fortitude and presence.
-use one mook as a human shield while you suck out all his blood.
-repeat step 3 until you are out of mooks
-???
-Profit!

[Eldan]

Someone mentioned the Chalice as a good tool for ventrues...
A question, though: for some reason, that thing never worked for me. It was noted as being full of blood, but clicking "use" just did nothing. I even tried different patches. How does it work?

[Kzickas]

Save your xp, that way you can overcome any obstacle by using some to buy whatever it is you need

[MickJay]

The official patches end at 1.2, but the fan-made ones are still being updated. After most of the bugs were fixed, some of the missing content and a few quests were unlocked. Other than that, there's been a lot of tweaking and minor changes - unused artifacts added, some things changed locations, some items are now quest rewards instead of being buyable, names of the weapons were changed to "real" ones, etc. Background histories were unlocked as well, some of them are almost purely decorative, a few are way overpowered, some are useless (certain effects from histories do not stack with artifact effects, which means you're still "paying" the cost, but after getting the artifact, there's no benefit).

Chalice worked without problems for me (patches 4.x+) I haven't played the game for some time, so I can't remember if there was some oddity about how it worked or not. Basically, you drain all the blood from it in one go, getting healed like with a blood pack, then it just slowly fills again as you kill things.

There's a simple trick if you want to bypass the Ocean House underground area. stand next to the staircase and hit it from the side with melee attack. The stairs that normally break as you approach them and suck you in become inactive, and you can simply jump over the gap. There are no items down there, so if you've played through that bit before, you won't lose much

edit: it's perfectly possible to finish the game with way over 100 unused XP points; just for the kicks, I once finished with 157 points and a fairly playable character, though I did use every trick and exploit possible to get as much "free" skills as possible. :smalltongue: I know some people played for the challenge, without using any XP at all, too, but that's a bit hard core (and you end up missing a lot of stuff that requires certain skill levels).

[Green Bean]

Yeah, that part of the game in the middle, in the Hollywood area (or around it) is quite difficult if you are unprepared. All I can say is, BRING LOTS OF BLOOD PACKS, then you shouldn't have a problem. Also, a combat shotgun is a huge plus, especially when you start fighting the bigger beasties.


Ugh, I hate that level so much. I cleared it twice, but from the third time on I just used noclip. There's nothing interesting down there.

Also, I've got to express my love for the Toreador. Sure, firearms aren't totally effective at the beginning, but by the end... Let's just say Celerity 5 + Auspex 5 + Body Armor = easiest last level and boss fights ever.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Which level are we talking about now? I like to know what's gonna happen before going in.

Be Prepared.

That's the Boy Scout motto! :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

VtM: Bloodlines was a fun game. I played as a Tremere using guns and diplomacy. Sadly, the latter method gets less and less efficient as the game progresses, which is my biggest complaint about it. Guns too are less efficient than melee in the long run. If I ever get to play it again, I'll play a Nosferatu, because I'm curious as to how will certain elements of the game affected by their hideousness.

[Green Bean]

Which level are we talking about now? I like to know what's gonna happen before going in.

Be Prepared.

That's the Boy Scout motto! :smallbiggrin:

It's right after you fight a guy named Andre (I'm pretty sure that's not a spoiler).

[Driderman]

VtM: Bloodlines was a fun game. I played as a Tremere using guns and diplomacy. Sadly, the latter method gets less and less efficient as the game progresses, which is my biggest complaint about it. Guns too are less efficient than melee in the long run. If I ever get to play it again, I'll play a Nosferatu, because I'm curious as to how will certain elements of the game affected by their hideousness.

Even with fan-patches, being a Nosferatu doesn't really impact the game that much. With a bit of speed and planning you can even run around most if not all city streets without any problems, sadly.

[Morty]

Even with fan-patches, being a Nosferatu doesn't really impact the game that much. With a bit of speed and planning you can even run around most if not all city streets without any problems, sadly.

What about quests that require you to interact with mortals?
And I can't help but notice that if the Nosferatu PC wore an oversized blouse with a hood instead of this leathery garment, he'd be able to avoid being noticed as long as he wouldn't come up close to a mortal.

[Selrahc]

I'll spoiler it but..

The Hollywood sewers. From the time when you go up to the creepy Tzimice mansion you have to fight your way down through the sewers to find the Nosferatu base. First time I played through the game I thought it was just endless and I'd be trapped in the sewers for all time eating rats and fighting monsters.

On later playthroughs I discovered that there are a few select areas where you can leave to return to the surface. Particularly for Ventrue that makes the entire thing much easier. I suspect it was also easier because on the first playthough I got lost a few times and there are infinite respawning enemies around in the later bits.

Even so, despite the length it was probably the most entertaining pure combat segment of the game, for what that's worth.

[Driderman]

What about quests that require you to interact with mortals?
And I can't help but notice that if the Nosferatu PC wore an oversized blouse with a hood instead of this leathery garment, he'd be able to avoid being noticed as long as he wouldn't come up close to a mortal.

I think a few quests are impossible due to your appearance, but mostly the NPCs just go "Damn you're ugly" and you can talk to them anyway, or at least handle the quest in a slightly different fashion.
And yes the nosferatu would be a lot less inconspicious in a hoody, but apparently S&M gear is mandatory nosferatu wear around these parts

[Green Bean]

And yes the nosferatu would be a lot less inconspicious in a hoody, but apparently S&M gear is mandatory nosferatu wear around these parts

Also if you're Malkavian. I'm still not entirely sure how I walked into a fancy dress party wearing a "Precinct 69" cop outfit and no one realizes anything's wrong until I start snapping necks.

[Kzickas]

Is the intro movie different if you're a nosferatu? I can't really imagine someone who would want to sleep with a nosferatu, or if they exist that they would freak out about it being a vampire

[Driderman]

Is the intro movie different if you're a nosferatu? I can't really imagine someone who would want to sleep with a nosferatu, or if they exist that they would freak out about it being a vampire

Well, according to PnP Vampire: The Masquerade 3 dot obfuscate is called Mask Of Thousand Faces and you can assume the appearance of non-freakish people.
I believe that is what goes on in the intro, as it's the same as all the others, except after the bite you turn ugly

[Jibar]

I hear that s/he looks normal until you get to the trial when they change into a proper Nosferatu, but I never did it myself so feel free to prove me wrong.

[Morty]

I tried starting as a Nosferatu once, and PC's sire looks normal until they're both dragged into the theatre. As IIRC you can use Obscufate to disguise yourself in the tabletop version, I suppose it works.

[MickJay]

Of course, as a player, you never get to use that fancy ability. :smalltongue:

Nosferatu miss out on quite a few side quests/opportunities involving diplomacy and "unaware" mortals, but all the mortal key NPCs (like shopkeepers) will just comment on your extreme surgical makeover, disease or something like that. That said, Nosferatu get a "special" apartment later on (and, like Tremere, they have to wait significantly longer for it). The other 5 clans may receive their new home right after the first mission in the second area. Nosferatu often have to use alternate entrances and routes during missions, which adds a little variety to the way you play (also, you need to use sewers to move between the areas, and therefore you don't get to use the cab until the very end).

As for the most entertaining pure combat mission, I'd vote for the cemetery zombie infestation, which is purely optional. It's also probably the most difficult mission in the game, unless you happen to be playing Tremere with maxed Thaumaturgy, in which case it's a simple, yet wonderfully bloody massacre :smallbiggrin: for other clans, good planning is needed, but if you also have Celerity, then it becomes relatively easy

[Jibar]

I was about to say that was really fun, but then I remembered I didn't actually do that mission and just bought the guy a hooker.
If you've done the mission this makes sense.

[Selrahc]

The other 5 clans may receive their new home right after the first mission in the second area

Unless you found LaCroix an insufferable prick and made no attempt to hide it. In which case you get to stay in your crummy apartment in Santa Monica.

And yeah, that zombie mission was hardcore. Couldn't do it without celerity. Buying the hooker is a much much easier option.

[MickJay]

@ Selrahc: that's why I wrote "may" :smallwink: if you're slightly unpleasant, you can still get the apartment after third Downtown mission.

As a female character with a decent beauty score you don't even have to buy the hooker... you're still losing one experience point then (or more, if you have the appropriate backstory/item), AND the special reward (possible firearms upgrade). The 17-ammo-in-the-clip pistol (forgot the name) + decent firearms skill + headshots work wonders here. With melee it's also doable, but Celerity or crowd control disciplines make the mission significantly easier.

Cheap trick for maxing out "free" skill upgrades from NPCs:

there are a few opportunities for getting free skill points, but usually your skill rating has to be in a certain range, usually below a specific value. You can get, for example, up to your third dot in something, or your second dot in something, and so on. However, the game checks your current skill level before you actually proceed with dialogue option that grants you the skill: if you can pick the "right" answer during the chat, it means you're already qualified to get that skill upgrade. You can then proceed directly to character screen from the dialogue screen, boost the relevant skill (up to 4), close character screen and THEN receive the free upgrade, saving quite a few XP in the process, provided you wanted to max out that skill anyway.

The one book that requires 10 in Research is better left unused: you don't need 5 dots in intelligence for anything else, and it's cheaper to simply buy that last skill point (even cheaper with the trick I described) than to learn it from the book; for the same reason (intelligence = only intimidate and research) it might also be worth skipping the other "fifth dot" books, depending on the skills you want to max out

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I found a guide to getting the most experience possible. I've been thinking of using it, if only to make sure I can make a Ventrue that will be able to survive severe combat.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/914819/47335

What do you people think? Solid? Or should I look into a different build?

[Nano]

I don't think you'll have much of a problem surviving however you build yourself. I didn't, as a Tremere or a Malk.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I tend to be the guy who likes to have a build planned out in advance, since I like to play jack-of-all-trades type characters capable of completing as many quests as possible in a single playthrough.

[Brother Oni]

I had two problems with the game: first, you need a gun to get past the lab section in Chinatown, otherwise you can't hit the switch.

The other problem was the Hallowbrook hotel where everybody seems to have Auspex 5 as my Obsfucate 5 character kept on losing his invisibility on certain sections (I suspect game enforced decloaking points).

Both of which made my unarmed ninja-esque Nosferatu very unhappy. :smallfrown:

[mcv]

Also. Ocean House. Try not to play that part in the dark, that part always gives me the creeps.

Do try to play that part in the dark. It gives very excellent creeps!

This game has some of the creepiest scenes in any computer game ever. It also has excellent music, atmosphere, dialogue and story. I think I consider it the second best CRPG after Planescape: Torment.

It does have twitchy FPS action combat which I don't like so much, but the good bits more than make up for that.

For the fan-patches, I'd go with Werner Spahl's. He's been extremely dedicated to releasing regular updates. I played with Tesera's patch, which isn't bad either, but generally Werner is just a much nicer guy, more dedicated to giving people what they want, and not so prone on going on a foul mouthed ego-trip as Tesera.

The only thing I didn't like was the ending. You can choose several options, and I knew exactly what I wanted, but my option didn't exist, and the one that seemed to come close turned out to be exactly what I didn't want. But maybe Werner has fixed that.

[Green Bean]

The other problem was the Hallowbrook hotel where everybody seems to have Auspex 5 as my Obsfucate 5 character kept on losing his invisibility on certain sections (I suspect game enforced decloaking points).

Experimentation shows that some of the guys in the hotel actually do have Auspex. I'm pretty sure it's the scruffy looking dudes with ranged weapons. Seeing as some have Celerity, and one of them has Presence, it looks like they're Toreador, who also get access to Auspex.




mcv, which ending in particular were you shooting for?

[mcv]

mcv, which ending in particular were you shooting for?

The sane one. More details in a spoiler:
After tons of hints that the sarcophagus is Bad News, and Whatshisname giving me an extra warning just before the end not to open the sarcophagus, I decided it'd be best to leave it closed and dump it to the bottom of the ocean or something like that. So I stand in front of Lacroix (why can't I kill him? I killed his weremoth henchman, and I wanted to kill him too). Instead, I get three dialogue options:

"Let's be friends and open it together"
"Okay, you're the boss. You go open it."
"No one can stand before my awesome power! Muhahaha!"

Option #3 is stupid, but at least doesn't mention anyone opening the sarcophagus, so that's the one I pick. I open the sarcophagus and die. I felt betrayed.

[jamroar]

As a female character with a decent beauty score you don't even have to buy the hooker... you're still losing one experience point then (or more, if you have the appropriate backstory/item), AND the special reward (possible firearms upgrade). The 17-ammo-in-the-clip pistol (forgot the name) + decent firearms skill + headshots work wonders here. With melee it's also doable, but Celerity or crowd control disciplines make the mission significantly easier.
[/spoiler]

The difficulty with the mission is that every zombie you kill increases the spawn rate until the final minute resembles a zombie apocalypse with the dead rising as fast as you put them down.

One trick to clear the mission without Celerity and/or a decent firearms skill is to hide in the furthest corner of the graveyard until the last minute, causing minimal zombies to be spawned at the front gate, then rush to the almost-battered down back gate and defend it from the reasonably managable pack of zombies as best you can.

[FreakyFerret]

I played first as a Gangrel. Best clan ever if you ask me. I played second time as Malk, and wow talk about fun.

The most interesting (read: difficult) battle for me was the gargoyle. That thing kept kicking my butt. Everything else was gutted or drained with little trouble.

[Selrahc]

The most interesting (read: difficult) battle for me was the gargoyle. That thing kept kicking my butt. Everything else was gutted or drained with little trouble.

Use a blunt weapon and that fight is almost embarrassingly easy. Since in my first run I was using the sledge hammer as my melee weapon of choice for most of the game the gargoyle fight came as somewhat of a disappointment.

[Jibar]

How many other people are reinstalling this after being reminded how great it was then?

[MickJay]

The difficulty with the mission is that every zombie you kill increases the spawn rate until the final minute resembles a zombie apocalypse with the dead rising as fast as you put them down.

One trick to clear the mission without Celerity and/or a decent firearms skill is to hide in the furthest corner of the graveyard until the last minute, causing minimal zombies to be spawned at the front gate, then rush to the almost-battered down back gate and defend it from the reasonably managable pack of zombies as best you can.

Sure, but where's the fun in that? :smallwink:

Here's a link to the site with fan-made patches:

http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

I'd recommend not reading the descriptions of the changes, because they contain many spoilers - on the other hand, the changes made might cause some confusion if you decide to use a guide. The guide you linked is quite decent, though the patches I linked do repair Potence.

[Brother Oni]

Experimentation shows that some of the guys in the hotel actually do have Auspex. I'm pretty sure it's the scruffy looking dudes with ranged weapons. Seeing as some have Celerity, and one of them has Presence, it looks like they're Toreador, who also get access to Auspex.


Well they're Sabbat and I can't remember what powers their various bloodlines get.

However I did check after killing everybody and there was one section where I entered a corridor from a room where I was auto-decloaked with nobody un-dismembered* around to see me.

I'll double check with one of the fan patches and see if that got fixed.

*I love Potence 5 with melee combat. :smallbiggrin:

[Green Bean]

The sane one. More details in a spoiler:
After tons of hints that the sarcophagus is Bad News, and Whatshisname giving me an extra warning just before the end not to open the sarcophagus, I decided it'd be best to leave it closed and dump it to the bottom of the ocean or something like that. So I stand in front of Lacroix (why can't I kill him? I killed his weremoth henchman, and I wanted to kill him too). Instead, I get three dialogue options:

"Let's be friends and open it together"
"Okay, you're the boss. You go open it."
"No one can stand before my awesome power! Muhahaha!"

Option #3 is stupid, but at least doesn't mention anyone opening the sarcophagus, so that's the one I pick. I open the sarcophagus and die. I felt betrayed.

That's really odd. Which side did you pick while you were in the cab?

[MickJay]

Sabbat is not limited to any bloodlines or clans, in theory anyone can sign up, so you can always find some "Camarilla" clan vampires there. Apart from the vampires with Auspex, the big fleshcrafted thing negated Obfuscate as well.

About ending: to get these choices, you can pick either Camarilla (Strauss), Anarchs or "yourself"; the "correct" answer is always to let LaCroix open the box (you already know it's trouble), the final cutscene depends on the choice you made in the cab.

[loopy]

How many other people are reinstalling this after being reminded how great it was then?

I've never uninstalled it. :smallbiggrin:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Seems to me the only really good ending is...

The independent ending. You already know that Ming and La Croix are backstabbers, so siding with them is just asking for it, the Camarilla will only see you as a pawn, and while Nines looks like a nice guy I don't think the Anarchs have your best interests at heart either. You're told by that psychic thin-blood on the beach that Beckett, who advocates his own independence, is one of the only people you can truly trust (the other one being Mercurio), so it seems to me that abandoning all that Jyhad crap and going your own way seems to be the best idea, and you get that option regardless of your actions in the game.

Do you really have to flip off Nines though? Like I said, he seems like a nice guy.
Also, I've heard it mentioned that one of the patches has an option of allowing you to protect Heather (your ghoul) from getting kidnapped and murdered by the Sabbat without having to send her away for good. How does that work?

[Morty]

:smallconfused: Didn't you say that you're only going to get the game?
Checking the endings before finishing it seems weird to me...

As for the ending, when I sided with Anarchs, my two options were to give LaCroix the key and go away or go all Palpatine and open the Sarcophagus yourself. Either way, the tower blows up and I'm not sure if your character can survive it even if s/he leaves before Prince opens it.
If I knew I could have chosen the Camarilla without working for LaCroix, maybe I'd have chosen that option. Seems a better pick for a Tremere.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I first found out about this game because I stumbled on one of the endings on YouTube, and became curious and wanted to learn more.

TV Tropes has a name for people like me. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpoilerHound)

In my opinion, it isn't the ending that matters so much as the experience leading up to it. In the immortal words of Kreia, "It is not the destination that matters, it is the journey."

[Jibar]

Sure, but where's the fun in that? :smallwink:

Here's a link to the site with fan-made patches:

http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

I'd recommend not reading the descriptions of the changes, because they contain many spoilers - on the other hand, the changes made might cause some confusion if you decide to use a guide. The guide you linked is quite decent, though the patches I linked do repair Potence.

Hmph. After reinstalling and giving the 6.5 Plus patch the game isn't working properly. Namely I can't equip unarmed so I can't actually complete the tutorial. Took me a while to even switch from 1st to 3rd person.
Don't know if it's the patch or my new Vista laptop but I have it running in compatibility mode.
Going to reinstall it and try it unpatched tomorrow, but just giving a heads up that patch could be problematic.

[MickJay]

What the patch I used changed was the PC's line and response you get from Heather. Instead of "get lost, I don't want to see you again" you can say something like "go away, I want you to be safe, I'll call you when it's ok to go back" (you still don't get to see Heather anymore, and you still miss out on the armor - though you can purchase it from Mercurio after the hotel mission).

Choices: Both Strauss and Nines are sort-of good guys, but in the end, they're just much more subtle in using the main character to further their goals than Lacroix. Strauss is the smart, if a bit dull, type; Nines has passion and charisma. They both put their cause before themselves, both make good points, but all in all neither represents the really good choice.

edit: last time I played, the patch version was 4.9 or 5.1 or something like that, I had no problem "equipping" unarmed then. Did you try scrolling through weapons with the mouse wheel?

[Jibar]

Ayup. Tried everything. Couldn't switch to combat mode, couldn't equip anything, couldn't switch camera views. It was a mess.
I'll report on any difference tomorrow in case I find out what's wrong.
There was another patch I have saved on my old computer though that was at version 1.4 or something that simply fixed loads of bugs, moved some items around and changed some effects like making the demon hunter katana deal aggravated damage. I think the most lost content it added was the Histories system. I'll hunt that down as well.

[Green Bean]

Choices: Both Strauss and Nines are sort-of good guys, but in the end, they're just much more subtle in using the main character to further their goals than Lacroix. Strauss is the smart, if a bit dull, type; Nines has passion and charisma. They both put their cause before themselves, both make good points, but all in all neither represents the really good choice.

Eh, the best ending is definitely the Lone Wolf ending. You get jerked around the entire game by pretty much every NPC in the game, so you decapitate two major factions (but leave enough left to fight another Camillar vs. Anarchs war) then tell the survivors to stop bugging you. In my personal canon, I go after Jack next, but the world's about to end, so it doesn't really matter.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Honestly, wouldn't the TRULY good choice have been to just wait for sunrise right after being made into a vampire so there was one less soulless abomination unto God in the world? :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

Nah. That's the coward way. The GOOD way is to take as many of the bloodsucking bastards with you as possible. Which is, in a fashion, what I did. I mean, I must have killed a hundred bloodsuckers. With flamethrowers, katanas, crossbows and assault rifles.
Honestly, this game only needed phosphorous grenades to make it a vamp hunters dream.

[mcv]

That's really odd. Which side did you pick while you were in the cab?

I forgot. Probably Anarchs or myself. I killed the Chinese vampire monstrosity, and intended to kill Lacroix too. I'm still annoyed I didn't get that chance.


to get these choices, you can pick either Camarilla (Strauss), Anarchs or "yourself"; the "correct" answer is always to let LaCroix open the box (you already know it's trouble), the final cutscene depends on the choice you made in the cab.
But I don't want anyone to open the box. LaCroix has been hunting for it and expects to gain great power from it, and I just don't want to take the risk that he's correct. The lone wolf guy (forgot his name) told me not to open it, so I'm dead set to prevent anyone from opening it. I want that to be an option, and it sucks that I got forced to open it against my will.

Also, I still want to kill LaCroix.

[MickJay]

But I don't want anyone to open the box. LaCroix has been hunting for it and expects to gain great power from it, and I just don't want to take the risk that he's correct. The lone wolf guy (forgot his name) told me not to open it, so I'm dead set to prevent anyone from opening it. I want that to be an option, and it sucks that I got forced to open it against my will.

Also, I still want to kill LaCroix.

Well, the box does stay closed if you decide to work with Kuei-Jin (bad choice) or if you work with Strauss (Camarilla, good choice - you actually don't get the option to let LaCroix open the box if you pick Strauss, I was wrong about that). To be able to work with Strauss, you need to complete his missions, not betray him (don't tell Isaac about who made the gargoyle - you can still convince the roof ornament to work for Isaac, Strauss won't know about it) - and navigate through the dialogue in the cab until you get the option to visit the mage.

[mcv]

Well, the box does stay closed if you decide to work with Kuei-Jin (bad choice) or if you work with Strauss (Camarilla, good choice - you actually don't get the option to let LaCroix open the box if you pick Strauss, I was wrong about that). To be able to work with Strauss, you need to complete his missions, not betray him (don't tell Isaac about who made the gargoyle - you can still convince the roof ornament to work for Isaac, Strauss won't know about it) - and navigate through the dialogue in the cab until you get the option to visit the mage.

The way you put it, I'd have to know all the endings in order to pick one that makes sense for me within the game, and that's completely backwards.

If Ming and Strauss both have a reason not to open the box, then why aren't the Anarchs interested in leaving the box closed? Why don't I?

During the game, everybody has been telling me how powerful and/or dangerous it is. Of course I want to leave it closed and -if possible- dump it to the bottom of the ocean or something. Or at least keep it out of everybody else's hands until I know more about it. The fact that this option isn't there seems like a really annoying omision (in an otherwise brilliant game).

[MickJay]

The way you put it, I'd have to know all the endings in order to pick one that makes sense for me within the game, and that's completely backwards.

If Ming and Strauss both have a reason not to open the box, then why aren't the Anarchs interested in leaving the box closed? Why don't I?

During the game, everybody has been telling me how powerful and/or dangerous it is. Of course I want to leave it closed and -if possible- dump it to the bottom of the ocean or something. Or at least keep it out of everybody else's hands until I know more about it. The fact that this option isn't there seems like a really annoying omision (in an otherwise brilliant game).

The anarchs' priority is not to let the "power" of the box into Camarilla's hands. You (might) believe that the box contains an Antediluvian, and want to either drain him, or kill him. Anarchs might want to kill the old vampire as well - all of that that requires opening the box. Now the player does get enough hints to know he shouldn't open the sarcophagus. But yes, if you do want just to keep it closed, then you have to know with whom to side in advance, and both choices (Ming, Strauss) require you to do/not do certain things during the game, which means that by the time you're in the endgame, both routes might be closed already, and you don't get to keep the box closed even if you want to. Still, just killing LaCroix and leaving the sarcophagus behind would essentially become the "Camarilla" ending, only without your direct decision, which would be a bit redundant anyway.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It doesn't really matter anyway. From the looks of things, Jack removed Messerach and planted the C4 inside the Sarcophagus before you ever saw it. I gotta wonder just what the conspiracy was. So far the only people I know were involved in this were Jack and the cab driver (who might be Caine himself). It's like Jack just sort of made his own counter-conspiracy to incite chaos in Los Angeles, just for teh lulz.

Who else was in on Jack's little prank?!

[Kzickas]

Don't think it was for the lulz. point was to get the non anarch factions in the city to fight each other then the winner gets blown up leaving the free state safer, for a time at least

[Morty]

What I'm wondering is that whether or not the player's character manages to get out of LaCroix's tower if s/he leaves him the key and leaves in the Anarch ending.

[chiasaur11]

It doesn't really matter anyway. From the looks of things, Jack removed Messerach and planted the C4 inside the Sarcophagus before you ever saw it. I gotta wonder just what the conspiracy was. So far the only people I know were involved in this were Jack and the cab driver (who might be Caine himself). It's like Jack just sort of made his own counter-conspiracy to incite chaos in Los Angeles, just for teh lulz.

Who else was in on Jack's little prank?!

Presumably the motivation was: I'll make my own clan! With Blackjack, and hookers! On second thought, forget the clan.

[jamroar]

Don't think it was for the lulz. point was to get the non anarch factions in the city to fight each other then the winner gets blown up leaving the free state safer, for a time at least


That might be Jack's intent, but there is an implication that he in turn is being manipulated by Caine (or whoever that guy is) who, judging from that last cab conversation, might indeed be doing it for the lulz, or as an experiment.

[MickJay]

What I'm wondering is that whether or not the player's character manages to get out of LaCroix's tower if s/he leaves him the key and leaves in the Anarch ending.

you do get to see the character leaving the building if you leave the key to LaCroix. You then either join Nines and the rest or flip them off, depending on whether you went Anarch or lone wolf.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Presumably the motivation was: I'll make my own clan! With Blackjack, and hookers! On second thought, forget the clan.
I don't even WATCH Futurama and I still got that joke! Seems like everyone and their dog knows that John DiMaggio, the voice of Bender, provided Jack's witty and foul-mouthed, yet always smooth, banter.

[Jibar]

Well, one re installation and an official patch later and the game is running completely fine no problems.

Therefore I do not give my yay to the latest unofficial patch version.

[Morty]

you do get to see the character leaving the building if you leave the key to LaCroix. You then either join Nines and the rest or flip them off, depending on whether you went Anarch or lone wolf.

You do? Having checked it on YouTube, I still can't see it. You see your character leave LaCroix's office, but then it's just the top of the tower blowing up. Still, I suppose s/he'd manage to leave before the whole building catches fire, so it's not that ambigous.

[mcv]

It doesn't really matter anyway. From the looks of things, Jack removed Messerach and planted the C4 inside the Sarcophagus before you ever saw it.

It matters to me. After I single handedly defeated just about everybody, I'm still unable to make my own choice on how to deal with the situation. For an ending that seems to allow so much choice, it's very disappointing that one of the most obvious and attractive choices is not available. Well, not without knowing the effects of all the choices in the ending in advance forcing myself to side with the bad guys in order to get what I want. Without knowing why I'd have to limit myself in that way.

[Green Bean]

It matters to me. After I single handedly defeated just about everybody, I'm still unable to make my own choice on how to deal with the situation. For an ending that seems to allow so much choice, it's very disappointing that one of the most obvious and attractive choices is not available. Well, not without knowing the effects of all the choices in the ending in advance forcing myself to side with the bad guys in order to get what I want. Without knowing why I'd have to limit myself in that way.

I dunno, Jack and cab driver are pretty explicit that your choice in the cab is both important and irrevocable.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Not to mention the cab driver seems to paint every option as a bad choice, regardless of which one you end up taking.
Incidentally, does that build/guide thingy I mentioned earlier look effective, or is there a better way to build a melee-oriented Ventrue?

Here's the link again, in case you can't find it. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/914819/47335)

[MickJay]

I dunno, Jack and cab driver are pretty explicit that your choice in the cab is both important and irrevocable.

yes, but you don't really know what will happen with the sarcophagus when you are making the choice. It's more about "I like THIS guy" than "the sarcophagus should be opened/destroyed/left alone"; you get to pick sides, not to really decide the fate of the box the whole thing's been about .

@Morty: you're right, it's probably because the Anarch ending is so similar to the lone wolf ending; the only difference is that here you don't get to see your character, or the Anarchs (which is a bit confusing, all things considered :smalltongue: )

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Any word on the guide I found? Good? Bad? Ugly?

[MickJay]

It's pretty good, but it's essentially a one huge spoiler (the XP list especially). It's something I'd recommend using during later (but not first) playthroughs. Maybe just use the general hints and advice for building the character (the initial stats are about as min-maxed as possible). Also keep in mind while picking the discplines that you'd be saving 5XP by putting 3 dots in one discipline instead of putting 2 in 2. Maxing out all three disciplines costs too much; furthermore, depending on your playstyle, you will probably be relying on one or two disciplines; best pick those two early on, max one out, then increase the other to 4-5 dots, and leave the third alone.

Dexterity is important for all characters, strength for melee/brawling only, fortitude helps if your defense is low. Charisma is very important, most people never bother with manipulation or beauty. 4 dots in intelligence allow to maximize use of manuals (the one requiring 10 research is a waste of XP), perception is crucial for ranged characters, wits are quite good for defense (you can skip computer skill if you'll be using passwords from a guide).

[Moonshadow]

As I asked before, if you have the game downloaded via Steam, are you still able to fan-patch it, or no?

[Morty]

I see no reason for using a guide anyway. On a first playthrough, such things tend to spoil the experience and I've been able to finish Bloodlines with no problem without any specific build.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's pretty good, but it's essentially a one huge spoiler (the XP list especially). It's something I'd recommend using during later (but not first) playthroughs. Maybe just use the general hints and advice for building the character (the initial stats are about as min-maxed as possible). Also keep in mind while picking the discplines that you'd be saving 5XP by putting 3 dots in one discipline instead of putting 2 in 2. Maxing out all three disciplines costs too much; furthermore, depending on your playstyle, you will probably be relying on one or two disciplines; best pick those two early on, max one out, then increase the other to 4-5 dots, and leave the third alone.

Dexterity is important for all characters, strength for melee/brawling only, fortitude helps if your defense is low. Charisma is very important, most people never bother with manipulation or beauty. 4 dots in intelligence allow to maximize use of manuals (the one requiring 10 research is a waste of XP), perception is crucial for ranged characters, wits are quite good for defense (you can skip computer skill if you'll be using passwords from a guide).

I said before, I don't mind spoilers. In fact, I actively seek them out when I'm bored (which is a lot of the time). This is especially true of video games because I hate it when I can't get all the quests done on my first playthrough. I like to see everything the game has to offer on my first try. I'm the kind of guy that'd freak out if I was playing Ocarina of Time and I couldn't find all those Gold Skulltullas.

[Closet_Skeleton]

As I asked before, if you have the game downloaded via Steam, are you still able to fan-patch it, or no?

Yes, but you have to turn automatic update and ingame steam community off. At least that's what the readme said. Pity I had to install if before I could see the readme.

Install the patch in c/program files/steam/steamapps/common/vampire the masquerade - bloodlines

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Why is that?

[mcv]

What the patch I used changed was the PC's line and response you get from Heather. Instead of "get lost, I don't want to see you again" you can say something like "go away, I want you to be safe, I'll call you when it's ok to go back" (you still don't get to see Heather anymore, and you still miss out on the armor - though you can purchase it from Mercurio after the hotel mission).

That doesn't sound like it should work, should it?
Isn't the whole point of the ghoul that she's so utterly devoted to you that she won't leave you alone? That you have to butally crush that devotion to get rid of her so she's safe?

About the ending:

yes, but you don't really know what will happen with the sarcophagus when you are making the choice. It's more about "I like THIS guy" than "the sarcophagus should be opened/destroyed/left alone"; you get to pick sides, not to really decide the fate of the box the whole thing's been about .
Exactly! I don't care about the sides, I care about the sarcophagus. As far as I know, the Antediluvian is still in there, and it's dangerous if anyone opens is. That's my motivation for this choice. All the vampire politics aren't that important in comparison.

Especially when you choose the lone wolf ending, shouldn't you be able to decide for yourself what to do with the box?

[Green Bean]

That doesn't sound like it should work, should it?
Isn't the whole point of the ghoul that she's so utterly devoted to you that she won't leave you alone? That you have to butally crush that devotion to get rid of her so she's safe?

I think that's the whole point. This is the "I want to maintain this horribly unhealthy relationship" decision. You're sending her away for now, then bringing her back later once the danger passes so she can go back to licking your boots.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see. Suddenly having Heather around seems a bit nasty. I can see why you gain humanity for telling her to leave. But I want that armor though. :smallconfused:

[Green Bean]

I see. Suddenly having Heather around seems a bit nasty. I can see why you gain humanity for telling her to leave. But I want that armor though. :smallconfused:

I'm not 100% sure about this, but can't you kick her out right after you get the armor? :smallconfused:

[chiasaur11]

I'm not 100% sure about this, but can't you kick her out right after you get the armor? :smallconfused:

More importantly, if you're trying to be a "good guy":

Wouldn't taking her college money and such be point "Okay. This has gone too far"? Actually, Kieron Gillen did an article on that. I'll have to dig it up some time.

[Green Bean]

More importantly, if you're trying to be a "good guy":

Wouldn't taking her college money and such be point "Okay. This has gone too far"? Actually, Kieron Gillen did an article on that. I'll have to dig it up some time.

I think that's the way it's intended. Telling her to go away then or any point before it's pretty much the Good ending. Getting everything you can from her then telling her to piss off is Neutral, and keeping her on when you know it's a) unhealthy and b) dangerous is Evil.

[MickJay]

I think that's the way it's intended. Telling her to go away then or any point before it's pretty much the Good ending. Getting everything you can from her then telling her to piss off is Neutral, and keeping her on when you know it's a) unhealthy and b) dangerous is Evil.

getting armor from her means she dies, no way around it. You don't lose humanity for keeping her, only gain it when she's released, which means keeping her is not considered evil. She is "happy", after all, and you are providing her with lodging. The character doesn't really know that something bad might happen to Heather, although it is clear that there might be some risk to her, especially after things start to go ugly. All in all, there are many benefits of being a ghoul (Mercurio explains them early in the game), it's Heather's obsession and external circumstances that make the whole thing unhealthy.

Chiasaur, if you can find that article, I'd gladly take a look at it.

[chiasaur11]

getting armor from her means she dies, no way around it. You don't lose humanity for keeping her, only gain it when she's released, which means keeping her is not considered evil. She is "happy", after all, and you are providing her with lodging. The character doesn't really know that something bad might happen to Heather, although it is clear that there might be some risk to her, especially after things start to go ugly. All in all, there are many benefits of being a ghoul (Mercurio explains them early in the game), it's Heather's obsession and external circumstances that make the whole thing unhealthy.

Chiasaur, if you can find that article, I'd gladly take a look at it.

Check. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04/09/vampire-bloodlines-heather-and-me/)
One of Gillen's many solid pieces. Really nicely deals with the ethical issues and such.

Jim Rossignol had a general piece on the game here (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/forever-young-the-tragedy-of-bloodlines/#more-5284) and I think there was one more article. I'll try to get that sometime. Man, I love Rock Paper Shotgun.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, now I'm really concerned about Heather. In the words of Han Solo, "No reward is worth this!"

I think I'll just forgo the armor. It's just the Heavy Leather outfit with better protection, right?

[Kzickas]

Okay, now I'm really concerned about Heather. In the words of Han Solo, "No reward is worth this!"

I think I'll just forgo the armor. It's just the Heavy Leather outfit with better protection, right?

yeah, identical visually

[Green Bean]

getting armor from her means she dies, no way around it. You don't lose humanity for keeping her, only gain it when she's released, which means keeping her is not considered evil. She is "happy", after all, and you are providing her with lodging. The character doesn't really know that something bad might happen to Heather, although it is clear that there might be some risk to her, especially after things start to go ugly. All in all, there are many benefits of being a ghoul (Mercurio explains them early in the game), it's Heather's obsession and external circumstances that make the whole thing unhealthy.

Chiasaur, if you can find that article, I'd gladly take a look at it.

The point is she doesn't have a choice. Taking vampire blood creates a ridiculously strong emotional bond, regardless of how she'd feel about you normally. You're essentially brainwashing her into loving you. Yes, it's necessary to save her life, but prolonging the bond unnecessarily is pretty evil.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Doesn't one of the patches give you the option of simply buying the armor?

[Brother Oni]

I forget which version of the fluff Bloodlines use, but isn't a Blood Bond only created after a ghoul or another vampire takes blood from a single vampire three times?

I never got Heather (Nosferatu) - I should get round to replaying the game again with a character who doesn't have to crawl through the sewers or avoid people on the streets.

[MickJay]

The blood bond, yes, but a bond appears after drinking the blood even once. In case of Heather it does seem to be extremely strong - compare her with Mercurio or Knox: they're both loyal to their masters, but they can think and act reasonably, and Mercurio is willing to keep aiding you even when he realizes you're going against the Prince. Of course, they both have been ghouls for quite some time, so they had time to overcome the euphoria and start acting on their own, despite being given the blood on a regular basis.

The patches on the site I linked earlier allow to purchase the armor from Mercurio after Hallowbrook Hotel mission .

You can still make Heather a ghoul if you're a Nosferatu, you might want to avoid barging in through the clinic's front door, but that's about it, you can easily get in through the Blood Bank door in the back. You can even try barging through the reception room, just expect to be attacked by the guard (still no Masquerade breach, IIRC). Funnily enough, if you're Malkavian, your blood does affect Heather as well, her dialogue lines are quite different and indicate a mild insanity.

[chiasaur11]

Found that last article I was looking for.

It's here (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007/07/30/bloody-mess/). Discusses the problems as well as the virtues.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Man, they really rip it to shreds in that one. Should I still consider purchasing it?

[Ur-Quan]

You really should play Bloodlines, it's awesome game, and pretty immerse.
BTW:

I kicked heather out just before she died on my play-through, I felt so stupid when I found out what goodies she has to give :(.

[Brother Oni]

Yes, just make sure you patch it.

I think the reviewer was overly harsh as he seemed to be judging it to current standards of the day (2007) and comparing it to a sandbox game, which Bloodlines isn't.
It's more of a 'pick your own adventure' style gamebook ala the Fighting Fantasy series - main overarching plotline with key story events, up to you to sort out the little details of how to reach them.

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallconfused: Yo dudes. I'm not a player myself, but my girlfriend is and I know a lot of the fluff. (I want to punch Cain into a duck.. >>; Damn exalted with its awesome..)

But I'm coming here for advice if you don't mind- She's been on the quest where you have to get a sarcophagus of some sort for the Prince, and she finally does so, after a long, long quest chain, then suddenly, the prince resets on her and starts the chain over again! :smalleek: Anyone know how to get around this wicked glitch?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yes, just make sure you patch it.

I think the reviewer was overly harsh as he seemed to be judging it to current standards of the day (2007) and comparing it to a sandbox game, which Bloodlines isn't.
It's more of a 'pick your own adventure' style gamebook ala the Fighting Fantasy series - main overarching plotline with key story events, up to you to sort out the little details of how to reach them.

I love those!

So which patch should I look at. Jibar mentioned something about the most recent one having a game-breaking problem.

[Celesyne]

I've been meaning to replay this one for sometime, but my question is, I have it from D2D (Direc2Drive/fileplanet) is it possible to patch it with the unofficial patches with that version?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'd like to know that as well.

What is the best site to download the game from anyway?

[Cynan Machae]

VtM: Bloodlines is awesome. I played it as a Ventrue first time and yea, it get tougher at the end.

Now I'll ahve to give it a go again :smallsmile:

[Brother Oni]

I believe that in order to patch the game from steam, you have to disable the auto-update function of steam (I'm not sure as I have an original CD version of the game).

The unofficial patches will patch the game from release up to the latest fan patch version (wesp's 6.5) and includes the final official 1.2 patch. It's ~171 meg though.

I'm not sure what game breaking bug Jibar was on about - a quick scan of the forums show that a side quest is currently broken so that you auto-fail it on acceptance, but that's all I see. Jibar?

[Jibar]

I tried out the most recent version of wesp's, 6.5, and found it completely ruined my game.
I couldn't equip weapons, even hand to hand and the controls were unresponsive at best.
I'm not sure if it was just my machine or the patch but I couldn't play it.
A reinstall and official patch later and it's running perfectly, aside from those glitches still left out of the official patch but they're not completely unmanageable like being unable to complete the tutorial.

[MickJay]

But I'm coming here for advice if you don't mind- She's been on the quest where you have to get a sarcophagus of some sort for the Prince, and she finally does so, after a long, long quest chain, then suddenly, the prince resets on her and starts the chain over again! :smalleek: Anyone know how to get around this wicked glitch?

Solution to the problem I found here http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/vampire-tm-bloodlines-47/ankaran-sarcophagus-quest-bug-100038.html says: "Open the console before you speak with the prince and type "G.Story_State = 60" or "G.Story_State = 65" (without the " and case sensitive) if 60 does not work and then talk with him."

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I tried out the most recent version of wesp's, 6.5, and found it completely ruined my game.
I couldn't equip weapons, even hand to hand and the controls were unresponsive at best.
I'm not sure if it was just my machine or the patch but I couldn't play it.
A reinstall and official patch later and it's running perfectly, aside from those glitches still left out of the official patch but they're not completely unmanageable like being unable to complete the tutorial.

Can anyone coroborate this?

[jamroar]

Can anyone coroborate this?

A search turns up this (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vtmb/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-51416090&pid=914819).Seems like a intermittent character creation bug where you start off without hands.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Intermittent?

[Celesyne]

Its not steam that I have, I purchased it a good while back on Direct2Drive, which is through Fileplanet, a whole other company. i was just curious if anyone else has it throught them and knows if its capable of being hit with an unofficial patch.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'd like to know more about this as well. I've never purchased a game via download before, so I'd like to know which vendor is the most reputable and what the do's and don'ts are.

[Mattarias, King.]

Solution to the problem I found here http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/vampire-tm-bloodlines-47/ankaran-sarcophagus-quest-bug-100038.html says: "Open the console before you speak with the prince and type "G.Story_State = 60" or "G.Story_State = 65" (without the " and case sensitive) if 60 does not work and then talk with him."

:smalleek: DUDE. Thanks. You have no idea how much trouble you've helped me through. Have an internet. Console opens with ~ right?

[MickJay]

Hey thanks, my first internet :smallwink: you need to put "-console" )without the ""s) in the shortcut file after the c:\[...]\vampire.exe (or wherever you installed the game) so you have [...]\vampire.exe -console. Right click on the shortcut and select "properties". After that's done, ~ to activate console in game, yes.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Finished it with a female Toreador. Went for the neutral ending.

I spent tons of money stocking up for the finale but didn't even use an 8th of my ammo or blood packs. Kept assuming there'd be one last final boss around the corner. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooAwesomeToUse)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So would it be safe to download the game from Steam and then use the 6.5 version of the fan patch? Or would I run into the same problems that Jibar did?

[Selrahc]

It has been fine for me. Got the hand bug, made a new character, no further problems.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Guess that settles it then! I'll be purchasing the game this coming weekend! Thank you all for your help and advice. :smallsmile:

[Selrahc]

Oh actually I should point out one bug I've seen. Whenever I use the volume dial on the computer in the middle of an NPC speaking the game freezes. Which was kind of annoying. Not a truly debilitating bug though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I try to avoid fiddling with the volume in the midst of the game.

[Mattarias, King.]

Hey thanks, my first internet :smallwink: you need to put "-console" )without the ""s) in the shortcut file after the c:\[...]\vampire.exe (or wherever you installed the game) so you have [...]\vampire.exe -console. Right click on the shortcut and select "properties". After that's done, ~ to activate console in game, yes.

:smallsmile: Thanks man. Sorry for the slow response..

Also, I apologize if this is thread necromancy (Though this is just page two..), but my GF's having another problem- This time with "Explosive Beginning" on a different character. Apparently sabbat are supposed to burst through doors and stuff in order for them to be opened, but the sabbat aren't spawning. Help? :smallconfused: Google gives me nothing.

[MickJay]

you can enter the warehouse by 2 routes: one is near the train engine, which is standing under the roof next to the warehouse, guarded by one sabbath guy (climb the ladder when he's away from it), you then end up above the main warehouse area. This is the best route if you want to go for the "stealthy" approach (extra XP point for avoiding detection BEFORE you plant the explosive, and you can then escape through the main door, instead of going around the building); you still need to sneak through the warehouse, but it's easier to avoid the guards.

The other route is through the open area, through the small building with the sabbath guard, then through the open area patrolled by two (?) guards, you then arrive at the back of the warehouse. You can still try to be sneaky here, but it's much more difficult.

The main gate becomes closed the moment you're detected, and trying to enter through there is generally suicidal anwyay; if you don't raise alarm, the gate remains open, which makes getting out of the warehouse trivial.

[Driderman]

:smallsmile: Thanks man. Sorry for the slow response..

Also, I apologize if this is thread necromancy (Though this is just page two..), but my GF's having another problem- This time with "Explosive Beginning" on a different character. Apparently sabbat are supposed to burst through doors and stuff in order for them to be opened, but the sabbat aren't spawning. Help? :smallconfused: Google gives me nothing.

Are you sure you've patched your game? I've done several run-throughs with the official 1.2 patch and fanpatches 4.5-6.something and its always been running like charm for me

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've kind of changed my mind about the game. I'm planning on buying an Xbox 360 and thus not using the family computer to play games.

[loopy]

I've kind of changed my mind about the game. I'm planning on buying an Xbox 360 and thus not using the family computer to play games.

A shame. Thats one of my favorite RPG's you are missing out on there.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yeah, but Dragon Age: Origins will be coming soon, and that game looks like it's going to set the standard for RPGs for years to come.

[Mattarias, King.]

you can enter the warehouse by 2 routes: one is near the train engine, which is standing under the roof next to the warehouse, guarded by one sabbath guy (climb the ladder when he's away from it), you then end up above the main warehouse area. This is the best route if you want to go for the "stealthy" approach (extra XP point for avoiding detection BEFORE you plant the explosive, and you can then escape through the main door, instead of going around the building); you still need to sneak through the warehouse, but it's easier to avoid the guards.

The other route is through the open area, through the small building with the sabbath guard, then through the open area patrolled by two (?) guards, you then arrive at the back of the warehouse. You can still try to be sneaky here, but it's much more difficult.

The main gate becomes closed the moment you're detected, and trying to enter through there is generally suicidal anwyay; if you don't raise alarm, the gate remains open, which makes getting out of the warehouse trivial.

:smalleek: Thanks for the advice dude, but it didn't help. Apparently there's this one door that a sabbat dude is supposed to bust through that looks open, but isn't. Character can't walk through it, but enemies can shoot through it. Sabbat dude doesn't spawn either. Any ideas? Or at least a console command to walk through walls?

Edit: Nevermind, figured it out. Thanks again though! :)

This game looks okay. I might try it.. My main beef with WoD is all the grimdark and the social meandering silliness, but apparently this game gets more FIGHTING as you progress, so that's cool..

I just wanna know.. Any flaming weapons? I know PnP 'pires are too squeamish to even go near a campfire, but I should hope in-game ones are a little manlier..

[Eldan]

Flamethrower. Also: flaming crossbow.

Have fun with it. :smallbiggrin:

I think they mention phosphorous grenades and incendiary rounds a few times, but you never get them.

[MickJay]

Flamethrower appears late in the game, and the fuel is expensive and doesn't last long. Still, the weapon is quite powerful. Flaming crossbows also appear late, but they're not that strong. One of the newest fan patches added "dragon's breath", the custom made shotgun that Mercurio mentions to PC near the beginning of the game that is supposed to shoot phosphorus rounds, but I haven't seen it in action.

Mattarias, can you tell me exactly where that door is? I can't remember any such situation in this mission.

[rangermania]

"Stealth Killing Security Guards with a katana" and the little asian tune that plays after it...

You gotta love that game and there shouldn't be that much of fighting if you choose not to... Open up a malkavian or nosfreatu today and see what is the real deal...

[SolkaTruesilver]

I had three character in that game...

The first one: a Brujah. Bulky, powerful. He could smash the gargoyle with his BARE FIST. Very sympathetic to the Anarchs, LaCroix detested him.

But also more subtle than you could imagine. While he didn't got access to the secret parts of the game, he managed to save Ash with clever subterfuge, convince a Gargoyle to join the Anarchs, and got around with a clever mix of intimidate, cleverness and smashing punches. He ended up killing the Werewolf without I need to look up the guide :-)

The second one: a V-Inspired, seductive Tremere girl. She could make everybody like her, specially the Tremere leader. But she blasted her way trough the sewers to save Ash, and used a lot more violence than my first char.

She joined the Tremere and Trauss. She also flirted once with the Kue-Jins, but that bit her in the nice ass.

(My best friend used to joke that I play talky with the Strong character and I play smashy with the Smart ones)

And only now do I notice my Roy/V similarity... :smallwink:

Last character (the one my best friend told me to play after 2-3 playtrough) was the MAlkavian. You understand so much more of the game with that, it's incredible!

Now I know who the Mandarin worked for.
Now I know why the 1st ghoul I met is so stupid.
Now I know who Susan is.. (but I'd like to know why she is so mad at me)
Now I know where all the secret passageways are in the Giovanni MAnsion, and the secrets behind the three Heirs. (But to be honest, my Tremere girl found it)
And specially, I know who the REAL Big Bad Guy really is. Stop

Oh, and MAlkys are the best gun-users of the game. On the other hand, you just raped the "Cold Sniper" trope to death, and spit on the grave of that archetype when you play a Malkavian Sniper.

One beef I have with this game is the ending. Oh, I was greedy with my first Brujah playtrough, and I wanted to open the sarcophagus for myself..
Okay, I know the bomb is going to explode. But I am a freaking brujah with 6 blood packs, max endurance with body armor, Celerity, Potence and Blood Buff. WHY CAN'T I RUN OUT AND JUMP TROUGH THE WINDOWS? This is the kind of thing that differenciate so much between a video game and a true RPG... :smallfrown: I know I might die, but I think my chances are better flying out of the 60th floor than stay near the bomb.

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallbiggrin: Sweeeet...

MickJay: I'm unsure, since she recently got past it, but I believe it was the first one or so..?

ALSO, sorry to turn this into a "halp plox!" thread, but does anyone know how to stop your ghoul from being kidnapped/killed? My girlfriend has a female Malkav, if that matters. The ghoul is "Heather Poe". I assume it's an NPC.

[chiasaur11]

:smallbiggrin: Sweeeet...

MickJay: I'm unsure, since she recently got past it, but I believe it was the first one or so..?

ALSO, sorry to turn this into a "halp plox!" thread, but does anyone know how to stop your ghoul from being kidnapped/killed? My girlfriend has a female Malkav, if that matters. The ghoul is "Heather Poe". I assume it's an NPC.

You keep your ghoul long enough, they bite it. Of course, given that you let an innocent civvie get addicted to your blood and didn't kick her out before she gave up her entire life for you, the game does kinda have a right to call you on it.

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallsigh: Oh dear.. That's not gonna go over well.. Thanks, then.

Edit: Hm.. Says a friend got to keep his ghoul- Even turn her. O.o I thought that was like.. Heresy?

[Selrahc]

Edit: Hm.. Says a friend got to keep his ghoul- Even turn her. O.o I thought that was like.. Heresy?

Either mistaken or on a modded game. Heather won't survive if you keep her around.


The modded game has a few new fetch quests, specifically 1 for Gary to find a film prop and 1 for Mitnick to find a library card. Anyone know where they are?

[Dixieboy]

Finished it with a female Toreador. Went for the neutral ending.

I spent tons of money stocking up for the finale but didn't even use an 8th of my ammo or blood packs. Kept assuming there'd be one last final boss around the corner. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooAwesomeToUse)

Why would you even use ammo as a toreador?
They are melee MONSTERS in this game.

[loopy]

Either mistaken or on a modded game. Heather won't survive if you keep her around.


The modded game has a few new fetch quests, specifically 1 for Gary to find a film prop and 1 for Mitnick to find a library card. Anyone know where they are?

I know that the library card is found in the Empire arms hotel. Head to the right after you enter, its in some random room.

[Dixieboy]

In a room full of boxes actually.

There's nothing else of interest in there.

[MickJay]

Toreadors have the potential to deal highest firearms damage in the game, along with Malks and Tremere. Celerity is good for both melee and ranged characters, if there ever was a melee monster, it's a Brujah.

Plus, flamethrower works well for both melee and ranged characters, the only problem with it is the scarcity/price of ammo

[Dixieboy]

Going ranged when you have presence is a waste of discipline.

[Eldan]

So, I just played about, what, five minutes with a Malkavian. Seems fun. One question, though: sometimes when I talk to an NPC, there are the Malkav whispers in the background. Am I supposed to understand what they say? Because I can barely make them out, but from what I heard from some forums/walkthroughs, there are apparently a few secrets revealed this way.

[MickJay]

Only if you decide you actually want to use Presence in that playthrough :smalltongue: Maxed out firearms+good guns are at least as effective as maxed melee, if not more. Melee tends to be more powerful during earlier areas, but with equal skill, guns outclass melee from Holywood onwards.

Edit: the whispers usually warn you about the NPCs, but they're not really important, it's more about the atmosphere. They're hard to understand because they tend to overlap with the voice of the character you're talking with. The "secrets" are usually things that you will learn about sooner or later anyway, you just get a little foreshadowing. Understanding what the voices say won't affect the gameplay anyway.

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallconfused: Oh, so patching should help..? How do you figure out what version you're playing?

[Dixieboy]

So, I just played about, what, five minutes with a Malkavian. Seems fun. One question, though: sometimes when I talk to an NPC, there are the Malkav whispers in the background. Am I supposed to understand what they say? Because I can barely make them out, but from what I heard from some forums/walkthroughs, there are apparently a few secrets revealed this way.

You can easily do without, basically the voices will be telling you. "That guy is manipulating you, and she's lying".

Which y'know, tells you nothing of import.

@MickJay: In which case it's not the toreador who is good at ranged, but ranged that's good in itself.
Anyway:
I firmly disagree on the "Ranged is better" thing, the Katana has a larger damage output than the shotgun, is faster, looks cooler, and doesn't suffer from decreased damage vs vampires.
The only thing ranged weapons have on melee is range, which is eliminated with celerity almost instantly.

[MickJay]

Melee got me bored after a while, to tell the truth; it's just very easy to get the skill maxed, and if you've got potence (the repaired version), you can cut down anything in just a few hits. I'm not saying melee is not powerful, but in the end you always use the same tactics, get close and slash-slash-slash.

Toreadors, Malks and Tremere are better at firearms because of Auspex (up to extra 3 skill in firearms from Perception bonus, +1 for a patch-added amulet), which nets up to 14 in skill, compared to 11 for other clans. Celerity gives you time to aim better and shoot more bullets before enemies can react, OR get close to enemies fast and slash them to ribbons before they attack you. In the end, Celerity works just as well for melee as for ranged.

After you get ranged skill high enough, you stop relying on shotguns so much and start using SMGs or pistols; automatic shotgun is still nice if you want to deliver a salvo, but with the best SMG you just need two clips to bring down the final bosses, you can just stand in place and shoot them in the face until they're dead. While it's also getting a bit boring in the end, you can at least choose between weapons and ways of emptying the clip. :smalltongue:

[Dixieboy]

Being boring =/= Being worse, and melee has several different weapons.

[SparkMandriller]

I always found guns to do way more damage than melee weapons. The damage per hit was a little lower, but they attacked so much faster it more than made up for it. Especially with the automatics.

Have I got the bizarro version of the game or somethin'?

[Tam_OConnor]

Concerning Gary and the film prop:
It's in the back room of the gas station in Hollywood. Took me forever to find it. Also, don't put multiple items in your mailbox for the Nosferatu quests. The game'll empty the mailbox, but only solve the first quest. Sad times...

[Dixieboy]

I always found guns to do way more damage than melee weapons. The damage per hit was a little lower, but they attacked so much faster it more than made up for it. Especially with the automatics.

Have I got the bizarro version of the game or somethin'?No, you just weren't a melee specialist.

@Tom_Oconner: That's... weird, I put every single one in my mailbox at the same time and returned and had all the posters, i guess the risk isn't worth it though.

[MickJay]

I always found guns to do way more damage than melee weapons. The damage per hit was a little lower, but they attacked so much faster it more than made up for it. Especially with the automatics.

Have I got the bizarro version of the game or somethin'?

Nope, that's pretty much it. With high ranged you can kill opponents before a melee character would have time to run up to the enemy. I've played a melee specialist, he was a murder machine, but was still less effective than a ranged specialist.

There are multiple melee weapons, but they all work the same: run, smash/slash. With guns you get the choice of aiming for the vulnerable bits, sniping from distance, delivering salvos or just emptying clips at the enemy (and you get the alternate firing modes for a few guns which make them much more deadly in case the enemy actually has time to get close to you).

[Closet_Skeleton]

Why would you even use ammo as a toreador?
They are melee MONSTERS in this game.

I never used presence except for a few times at the begining. Only discipline I bothered enhancing was celerity and that was only when I had a big XP surplus at the end.

I mostly used the super katana, but I did keep full ammo around regardless. I used a sniper rifle and celerity for the final boss to beat him with far too much ease.

By the end I had as good as maxed melee, locking, hacking, range, persuassion, seduction, celerity and research while my stealth wasn't that bad either. My combat skills mostly came from books and trainers so I could spend all my XP on the interesting stuff.

The final boss flies, so you want to use ranged anyway. I assume you can hit it in melee when it gets close but never tested it because it seemed like a waste of time. I killed his first form with pure melee though.