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chaosgirl
2009-09-27, 01:25 PM
A question.

My significant others brother has invited me to play in his "Iron Age" Mutants and Masterminds game.

There a group in there late teens/early 20s, so that means that I'm the only person who actually READ COMICS the "Iron Age".

Looking over the characters that are queued up the main character type that's missing is "Hyper-violent symbiont" (Venom, The Wetworks team, Spawn and I'm sure I'm missing several thousand others)



My question is, outside of house rules how do i keep it on?
Some of the players have suggested that I take it as a Sidekick, that's always on me but im curious as to HOW
Is it appropriate to say it just stays on?
I don't want to have to deal with the grapple modifier if its "grappled" to me.

Is there an "official" way to do this, I know it can just be house ruled, but I would like an offical rules minded way, because I like the character idea, and would like to play it in other games when this one invitibly falls to pieces

tyckspoon
2009-09-27, 01:29 PM
For Mutants and Masterminds? Just take the powers normally and say the source is a symbiont. You really don't have to torture the rules to try and force it into being a mechanically separate creature- maybe take a flaw on your powers that nullifies them/lowers their rank if your symbiont has a Venom-like intolerance to something.

Baron Corm
2009-09-27, 01:31 PM
Treat it as a battlesuit or costume. They're under the "Devices & Equipment" section.

Haven
2009-09-27, 01:33 PM
First, don't take it as a sidekick. That'd get pretty broken, pretty fast.

Anyway, if the symbiote is something you can expect to have taken away from you--like, once you're unconscious, anyone can just steal it from you--I'd build it using the "Device" power (four-point-per-rank version), since it might not literally be a technological device, but that's effectively what it is.

On the other hand, if it's something that's bonded to you more deeply than that, you may consider taking the Normal Identity drawback if you have to "activate" it to gain access to the powers it grants. That's assuming you don't have any other powers, though (in other words, that you're Eddie Brock and not Peter Parker).

If neither of these apply, you might just build it normally and note that you have certain complications that may arise which the GM can give you a Hero Point for if they ever come up.

Tengu_temp
2009-09-27, 01:37 PM
Gestalt. Character without the symbiote as one component, the symbiote as the other, character with the symbiote as the gestalt.

Or a normal character with Alternate Identity, as Haven suggested.

chaosgirl
2009-09-27, 01:50 PM
Gestalt. Character without the symbiote as one component, the symbiote as the other, character with the symbiote as the gestalt.

You know I've been meaning to ask about that.

If I'm starting the game at PL 8 to make a two part character, I spend 9 points
(8 for powerlevel+1 for one extra component)

I then build two characters at 120 points and cherry pick the best parts of both?

kpenguin
2009-09-27, 01:51 PM
On the other hand, if it's something that's bonded to you more deeply than that, you may consider taking the Normal Identity drawback if you have to "activate" it to gain access to the powers it grants. That's assuming you don't have any other powers, though (in other words, that you're Eddie Brock and not Peter Parker).

I'd go with this if you're playing something similar to the Eddie Brock Venom.

If you're playing a character with other powers, I'd put the symbiote powers and your other powers in their own containers. Perhaps putting the symbiote powers in an alternate form container.

Haven
2009-09-27, 01:54 PM
You know I've been meaning to ask about that.

If I'm starting the game at PL 8 to make a two part character, I spend 9 points
(8 for powerlevel+1 for one extra component)

I then build two characters at 120 points and cherry pick the best parts of both?

Well, no.

Gestalt has two components by default, each of which has (rank) times 15 power points. But you can't have more ranks in Gestalt than 1/30th of your total power points.

So at PL 8 you could have up to 4 ranks in Gestalt, which would cost 4 points, and the separated characters would be worth 60 points each.

It's probably not worth it; I wouldn't go this way.

Baron Corm
2009-09-27, 01:55 PM
I don't think gestalt would accurately portray a symbiote because the symbiote is, from what I know, useless by itself. Under gestalt, it has the same power level as the person it's binding to, if they separate. If symbiotes do have some sort of power while unbonded... then they would be a lot more powerful than a human and it still wouldn't work.

Plus, with this method, the symbiote can never bond to anyone else. If you build it as a costume, it can. I'm not sure if you're going more for accuracy or playability, though.

Green Bean
2009-09-27, 02:28 PM
I have to second the vote against Gestalt, both because it doesn't seem to fit what you're going for and because it is one of the more confusingly designed powers in the book.

To get help, you should answer these questions;

1. Can the symbiote be removed?

2. Do you need to activate the symbiote (i.e. will you still have powers when you're out of 'costume'?)

If it can't be removed, it's just a normal power. If it can be removed when you're unconscious, make it a Device. If it has a mind of its own and may leave you, that's something you'll want to RP as a complication. At worst, it can be a Power Loss Drawback, but only if it's something you see happening a couple times per campaign. If you need to activate it, take the Normal Identity Drawback.

chaosgirl
2009-09-27, 03:39 PM
Yep Yep.

All the Device answers make ALOT of sence.

Its just that i didn't quite understand the combo power works in general.
Its not the clearest written thing ever

(or im just not as smart as i think i am when i read that part)

Set
2009-09-27, 04:21 PM
If the GM has Instant Superheroes, you can get a look at a Gestalt character on page 20, if you want to create a character that is, for instance, a PL 5 competent soldier-type dude, and a symbiote that is a PL 5 competent alien predator thing, and then have them 'synch up' to become a butt-kicking PL 10 super-soldier enhanced by alien predator abilities.

If you don't want the Symbiote to be functional without the host (or just don't want to deal with the Gestalt business), just using Device sounds like your best bet. A 'device' doesn't have to be an unliving machine, after all, just a set of powers that you can remove or put on (or have removed...).

By using two ranks of the Quick Change feat, you can have your symbiote ooze out over you, instead of having to dress yourself, like the Venom costume or Iron Man's Extremis armor.

Using Device could represent that the Symbiote is wounded, or crippled in earth's environment, able only to exercise it's abilities through a human host (or while being sustained by a human host, as it can't feed itself or whatever).

taltamir
2009-09-27, 05:08 PM
some get their powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider, some get it from bonding to a symbiont... why have it removeable? it is simply a source of all or some of your powers, but it is part of you. Removing it is akin to cutting out body parts for anyone else... so it shouldn't really come up...

unless you WANT it to be removeable / stealable?

Townopolis
2009-09-27, 05:25 PM
Basically, in order of how often it is/can be separated from you:

symbiote often detached
Normal Identity drawback
Device (4/rank)
Powers w/ power loss drawback
Powers w/o power loss drawback
symbiote never detached

chaosgirl
2009-09-27, 05:43 PM
Im doing this on my phone, so Im going to reply to the very kewl responces so far when i get back to the computer.

Is there any way to play the symbiote itsself that goes around posessiong others.

I think "possession" could work, with some plenty of bost powers...

Or if theres another way...

The tone for this game seems to keep getting darker, so i may as well with it :P

Salt_Crow
2009-09-27, 06:35 PM
If the character who possesses the symbiote is, in all other ways, a typical human being, I'd use Normal Identity drawback (can't remember the exact name of it). It'd allow me to build a full super-powered character that would lose all his/her powers if separated from the symbiote (the condition and the trigger of which can be anything you design).

If the character is still super-human w/o the symbiote, I'd treat it as a Container (UP) with a few ranks of Minion/Sidekick to show a more biological nature of the power. Of course, you could then add in Power Loss drawback on the Container to set the trigger for separation.



Edit: I do not claim any originality for these ideas; all credit goes to (as far as I'm concerned) Taliesin from Atomic Think Tank.