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Shinizak
2009-09-27, 06:47 PM
I'm looking for alternate class stats. (and please no blah blah blah from book of weeaboo fighting magic) I'm most interested in alternate stats for the 7 physical classes since the mages already run the game anyway.

sonofzeal
2009-09-27, 06:53 PM
....what? You mean homebrew versions?

And seriously, ToB != weeaboo. There's nothing particularly weeaboo about using Hunter's Sense to track down a foe and killing them with Bonecrusher and Wall of Blades. If the names of the maneuvers bother you, rename them. The book itself seems to be exactly what you're looking for if you're worried about power imbalance between classes, and does a better (and more balanced) job of improving that than most homebrew I've seen.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-27, 06:53 PM
I'm looking for alternate class stats. (and please no blah blah blah from book of weeaboo fighting magic) I'm most interested in alternate stats for the 7 physical classes since the mages already run the game anyway.

I find the term Weeaboo insulting. I hope you are joking.

7 physical? Barb, Fighter, Rogue are only physical classes in Core. The rest are casters (even 1/2 casters).

So magic is okay as long as can fight too? And yet you have issues with ToB?

sofawall
2009-09-27, 07:27 PM
(and please no blah blah blah from book of weeaboo fighting magic)

Seriously? Wow. One class in there, one, teleports and spider climbs and all that. One. Out of three base classes.

Do you have a problem with Wu Jen? Seems pretty oriental-flavoured to me. That is what you meant by weeaboo, right? Not European?

Also, if the names offend you, two things. 1) European sword/other weapons styles have equally silly names, and 2)Change the bloody things.

Also, the rest of your post makes no sense.

ShadowFighter15
2009-09-27, 07:29 PM
Plus the character doesn't even have to know the names of the moves. You could just say that he's learned the moves, but didn't bother with naming them and that they're just tricks he's learned to use while fighting. The explanation doesn't help much with Desert Wind and Shadow Hand (both of which are limited to the Swordsage, BTW), the two more supernatural styles, but my point stands.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-27, 07:29 PM
ToB arguments aside, the one that comes immediately to mind is Carmendine Monk, from Champions of Valor. Makes Monk Intelligence-based rather than Wisdom-based. Also, a trapfinding/spell-less ranger (Dungeonscape/CC or CW) isn't Wisdom-dependent.

Baron Corm
2009-09-27, 07:31 PM
Ok the word weeaboo is not offensive, and he wasn't asking if you guys thought ToB was weeaboo. Calm down.

Shinizak, there are tons of fixes for every base class that have been made already on the boards, you can try the search bar.

The Glyphstone
2009-09-27, 07:33 PM
Why does this thread reek of troll? I'm honestly not even sure what the OP is trying to ask for, beyond stating that 'ToB suxx'. Alternate class features for melee classes? Non-core melee classes? Melee class builds? Homebrew rewrites of melee classes?

Artanis
2009-09-27, 07:36 PM
What the hell does weeaboo mean? :smallconfused:

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-27, 07:38 PM
As far as I can tell, it's asking for builds/ACFs that give martial characters different dependent stats. Maybe asking to reduce the MAD, too. *shrug*

Though it might seem like we're just Tome of Battle fanboys, it does have merit. Give it a whirl. Throw out the vaguely "oriental" fluff (and throw out the psionic new age fluff while you're at it) and just play your guy as a fighter. Bonecrusher is the equivalent of Power Attack (hit really hard, ignore DR). Wall of Blades is just parrying. Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation is...yeah. But it's restricted to the "Swordsage" class, and with a name like that you're embracing the weeaboo.

It makes melee combat more flexible, and that, at least, fits into all the martial training philosophy I've had.

Shinizak
2009-09-27, 07:41 PM
Sorry, about the weeaboo comment, but I have been in the party where it has been used by a player to turn the game into a bleach **** fest. And I do respect the fact that it does balance out the classes nicely, it's just that I don't own it, and don't have any way to get it in the foreseeable future.

Therefore, I do not wish to have those be the only options presented to me since I would have no way to act upon them.

Kylarra
2009-09-27, 07:46 PM
Sorry, about the weeaboo comment, but I have been in the party where it has been used by a player to turn the game into a bleach **** fest.Psh, you can do that without ToB. Don't blame the system for the player.

You're still going to need to be a bit clearer on what you're looking for.

ShadowFighter15
2009-09-27, 07:50 PM
Sorry, about the weeaboo comment, but I have been in the party where it has been used by a player to turn the game into a bleach **** fest. And I do respect the fact that it does balance out the classes nicely, it's just that I don't own it, and don't have any way to get it in the foreseeable future.

Therefore, I do not wish to have those be the only options presented to me since I would have no way to act upon them.

Okay, that's understandable then. While I am a fan of Bleach, I wouldn't do that to a game. Most I'd do would be hot-blooded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded) attack calling (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallingYourAttacks) and even then, only if the tone of the game and/or scene supported it.

Back on topic, you do need to be a bit clearer with what you're wanting.

Overlord Nicy
2009-09-27, 08:05 PM
What the hell does weeaboo mean? :smallconfused:

It means one who likes Japanese 'culture' [read: Has seen a lot of anime/manga] to the point where he/she tries to act like he/she IS japanese and declares Japan culture superior to all others.

It has been reduced to describe anything remotely "Japanese-Like".

sonofzeal
2009-09-27, 08:14 PM
Sorry, about the weeaboo comment, but I have been in the party where it has been used by a player to turn the game into a bleach **** fest. And I do respect the fact that it does balance out the classes nicely, it's just that I don't own it, and don't have any way to get it in the foreseeable future.

Therefore, I do not wish to have those be the only options presented to me since I would have no way to act upon them.
Ah, well, that's fair. I'd blame that on the player, not the book (and if he really wanted Bleach, he should check out the Soulbow who makes arrows of pure mental energy).

I still don't really know what you mean, but here's a shot....


Fighter (weakness: doesn't get enough, too static)
- Feats lvls 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, etc; basically every level you don't already get a feat at.
- Make retraining feats much easier, and progressively faster as they level up. Let them retrain themselves if they've been taught the feat in the past.


Monk (weakness: can't hit anything, flurry doesn't support Spring Attack)
- Full BAB
- Can Flurry on a standard action (but you lose iteratives, obviously)


Barbarian (weakness: ...meh, they're decent already)
- Lose Trap Sense, gain Pounce at level 6.


Bard (weakness: generally underpowered unless they hyper-specialize)
- Give a bonus to spell DCs equal to what their Inspire Courage could do
- Allow "Dragonfire Inspiration" as a base option (trade Inspire Courage bonuses for an equal number of d6's of elemental damage on every attack; consider making the damage sonic, for giggles)


Paladin (weakness: nasty nasty code)
- Remove the code and allow the Tyranny/Freedom/Slaughter variants
- Allow and encourage "Sword of the Arcane Order" to help improve their spell list


Ranger (weakness: suboptimal combat styles)
- Give some sort of precision damage that can apply to every attack via TWF, or be delivered at range via archery.
- Give access to Druid spell list.


Rogue (weakness: rendered obsolete by a lot of spells)
- Start "Special Abilities" at lvl 5, and encourage Darkstalker as a feat option through it.
- Add "Mettle" (as Hexblade) as a Special Ability.
- Add "Camouflage" (as Ranger) as a Special Ability.
- Add "Fast Movement" (as Barbarian) as a Special Ability.
- Add "Slow Fall" (as Monk, based off Rogue level) as a Special Ability.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-27, 08:21 PM
It means one who likes Japanese 'culture' [read: Has seen a lot of anime/manga] to the point where he/she tries to act like he/she IS japanese and declares Japan culture superior to all others.

It has been reduced to describe anything remotely "Japanese-Like".

Exactly, which is why it is sounds (and is) insulting. "Weeaboo" is more a player issue than a Character issue.

I mean, Incarnates make better Bleach characters (all their weapons are too big for them). Incarnate Weapon fits Ichigo.

Although, he could be a Incarnate/Warblade multiclass.

Project_Mayhem
2009-09-27, 08:25 PM
Ranger (weakness: suboptimal combat styles)
- Give some sort of precision damage that can apply to every attack via TWF, or be delivered at range via archery.

S-S-S-Swift Hunter!

sonofzeal
2009-09-27, 08:29 PM
Exactly, which is why it is sounds (and is) insulting. "Weeaboo" is more a player issue than a Character issue.

I mean, Incarnates make better Bleach characters (all their weapons are too big for them). Incarnate Weapon fits Ichigo.

Although, he could be a Incarnate/Warblade multiclass.
Eh, what does Ichigo do? Stands on air, swings a big sword, projects the occasional damage dealing energy blast, and turns into a super-powerful alter ego.

ToB does the first one if you're a massively high level Swordsage (but at that level, anyone can buy Winged Boots), doesn't help with the second, and doesn't do the third at all. I don't really see how ToB works for Bleach, except that it makes melee more competitive in general. Meh.

sonofzeal
2009-09-27, 08:31 PM
S-S-S-Swift Hunter!
Shhhhh! You'll spoil the surprise! :smallwink:

Roland St. Jude
2009-09-27, 09:29 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: The term is somewhat insulting, potentially racist, and not at all helpful to the discussion. The OP's use seems to have made this thread all about something other than the gaming advice he apparently wants. Thread locked with permission to restart in a less needlessly provocative manner.