Top 5 DC/Marvel Heroes and Villains

[X2]

I thought I'd encapsulate all the top ten lists of the hero/villain and dc/marvel spectrum into a single thread. If you want to do all four possible lists or just one is fine.

But if you're not familiar with the comics, just go by what you know from the movies or tv shows.

DC Heroes
1. Superman
2. Captain Marvel
3. Booster Gold
4. Wonder Woman
5. Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)

DC Villains
1. Brainiac
2. Lex Luthor
3. The Joker
4. The Anti-Monitor
5. Deathstroke

Marvel Heroes
1. Deadpool
2. Iron Man
3. Cyclops
4. Emma Frost
5. Spider-man

Marvel Villains
1. Deadpool :smalltongue:
2. Venom
3. Doctor Doom
4. Red Skull
5. Magneto

[Starscream]

DC Heroes:
1) Batman
2) Wonder Woman
3) Superman
4) Flash (Wally West)
5) Barbara Gordon

DC Villains
1) Joker
2) Lex Luthor
3) Riddler
4) Darkseid
5) Abra Kadabra

Marvel Heroes
1) Spider-Man (Before One More Day)
2) Iron Man (Before Civil War)
3) Deadpool (Before C&D was canceled)
4) Storm (Before she became a royal housewife)
5) Reed Richards (Also before Civil War)

(The past couple of years have not been kind to the house that Lee built)

Marvel Villains
1) Dr Doom
2) Galactus
3) Norman Osbourne
4) Magneto
5) Skrulls

[kwanzaabot]

I dunno about having Superman at #1 for DC. He's iconic, sure, but it's also incredibly hard to care about a character (for me, anyway) who can do everything, and can't be hurt except by kryptonite, which everyone has, despite it being this rare alien metal.
It's why I always laugh at commercials for Smallville, that go along the lines of "has Clark finally met his match? Dun dun dunnnnn!" (it doesn't help that we all know he grows up to be Superman, so of course he'll be okay!)

Also, where's Batman? By which I mean **** Grayson. That new Batman and Robin series is full of win and awesome.

Oh, and you need Death. Though I'm not sure if I'd call her a "hero"... but c'mon. The Endless rock hard.

[X2]

I dunno about having Superman at #1 for DC. He's iconic, sure, but it's also incredibly hard to care about a character (for me, anyway) who can do everything, and can't be hurt except by kryptonite, which everyone has, despite it being this rare alien metal.
It's why I always laugh at commercials for Smallville, that go along the lines of "has Clark finally met his match? Dun dun dunnnnn!"

Also, where's Batman? By which I mean **** Grayson. That new Batman and Robin series is full of win and awesome.

Oh, and you need Death. Though I'm not sure if I'd call her a "hero"... but c'mon. The Endless rock hard.

Are you telling me what to think?

[kwanzaabot]

Are you telling me what to think?

Yes. :smallwink:

Actually, I'm sort of posting my own list, in a longwinded sort of way. I dunno. No offense meant.

[Finn Solomon]

Fantastic topic! Let me take the time to compose good lists.

DC Heroes

1. Batman

Why Batman? Leaving aside his plot armor, memetic badass status, and his well-trodden backstory, Batman appeals to the little boy in me. The boy who wants to always know the coolest thing to do or say in any given situation, to be completely calm and confident and in control. Forget Superman, Batman is the real adolescent fantasy, especially when you throw in the money, the cars and the girls. But Batman doesn't care about any of that. Batman is above petty mortal materialistic pleasures. Batman has grown in leaps in bounds since his premise as a man in a bat costume fighting gangsters, through the years he has evolved into as complex and as intriguing a character as any from the pages of Shakespeare or the Iliad.

2. Superman

The first and the best. The alpha, the image that leaps to mind when you say the word superhero. Sure, Superman has had his share of mistakes and bone-headedness, but find me any 70 year old who has not. At the end of it all, the alien from another world is the best example of everything that is good and decent and worth fighting for about humanity.

3. Green Lantern

His powers are very interesting. As a young boy I would spend days idly dreaming what exactly I would make if Abin Sur ever handed me a ring. No mere super strength or invulnerability, the Green Lantern is only bound by the limits of his imagination and his will. Then Alan Moore came along and cranked the whole thing up to 11. No longer a mere guy in green tights, the Green Lantern transformed into one member of a galaxy-spanning corps that protected the known planets from unimaginable horrors. Alan Moore breathed new life into the Lantern Corps, and his genius still shines bright today.

4. Green Arrow

Superheroes battle madmen in robot armor threatening to take over the world with fantastic powers. Fittingly for a man with a bow and arrows, Ollie Queen concerns himself with the poor and downtrodden of society. Ollie gives a damn. He's on the side of the little man. Superman might take orders from a corrupt Richard Nixon. Batman might turn Gotham in a police state to force law and order on a terrified populace. Ollie will have none of that. He believes in the right of a man to make his own decisions. Green Arrow truly represents, at least to me, the purest embodiment of the American ideal.

5. The Sandman

Vertigo's part of DC, right? If it wasn't, fifth spot goes to Zatanna based solely on the fact that I find her sexy. As it stands though, King Dream has to be mentioned on my list. Batman appealed to my inner child. Morpheus changed my outlook as a young adult. At an age when the right book could change a man's life, Neil Gaiman's changed mine. Leave aside the groundbreaking use of mythology, imagery that had never been seen before in comics, and the heady, dreamlike quality of the comics themselves. Just focus on the human aspect. Morpheus had immense, unimaginable power, but not the control to go with it. He was arrogant. He made dumb mistakes. He got mired in family problems, got annoyed by his little sister and had to be bailed out by his older sister. He had a brother whom he had not seen for ages. He was unlucky in love and fought with his son. In short, Morpheus the Lord Shaper, third eldest of the Endless and the anthropomorphic personification of Dream itself...was as human as you or me.

Honourable mentions: Yorick Brown, Jesse Custer, Zatanna and Death of the Endless, because she's the cutest, sweetest person in the universe.

DC Villains

1. The Joker

It should be no surprise that the mainstream icon of DC villainy tops my list. Thanks the Heath Ledger, the entire world got a glimpse of what we knew all along. The Joker is mad. The Joker is scary. The Joker beats the **** out of Pennywise the clown in the terror stakes. When it comes to fear, the Joker has it in spades. He does the whole blood and guts routine. But that's not all. He also wages psychological warfare and does things for the sheer hell of it. Some villains beat you physically. Some villains make you break down mentally. The Joker is the only one who does it all.

2. Two-Face

Two-Face always get overlooked by people in favour of the Joker. But Two-Face is special all on his own. His own origins are mired in tragedy, just like Batman. Two-Face has lost his humanity along with his half a face. The law which he once believed in so fervently has made way for the chaos of chance. You can imagine this happening. Any police officer or politician grapples with that choice every day. To uphold the law or to throw caution to the winds and let an unfeeling, uncaring universe decide.

3. Lex Luthor

Ah, dear Lex. Genius, yes, we know that. Smooth politician. Corporate king. Ruthless competitor. In short, every inch the modern man. So he hates aliens, well I don't see people hating on Ellen Ripley. Lex is a corrupt, scheming magnificent bastard of a corporate prick. You know what? I'm not so sure that he's a fictional character at all. There are plenty more like him walking around the streets of your city every day.

Marvel Heroes

1. Captain America

I love Cap. Everybody loves Cap. Cap's the cool older uncle, the guy whom everyone looks up to. Cap makes you feel better about yourself and the world. Cap is neither Democrat nor Republican. Cap does not care for your petty partisan squabbling. While you argue over inconsequential matters, Cap's out there every day holding the line, protecting people and saving lives. And he does with without torturing people or arranging them into human pyramids or any of that crap. Because Cap knows what's right. Cap is the moral standard of an entire world. Mr. Fantastic does the logical thing, Tony Stark tries to control you, Professor X manipulates people, but Cap will always and forever be the man you can count on to do the right thing.

2. Daredevil

I may be labelled insane, but I actually enjoyed the Daredevil movie. I loved the Frank Miller DD, and the Brian Bendis DD. Daredevil, as a concept, is just cool. The disabled man who fears nothing. His acrobatics, martial arts skills, the fact that he had sex with more hot women than you've had hot dinners, DD just screams cool to me. Plus, I like the idea of a lawyer that actually fights for people's rights. Only in comics, I know.

3. Luke Cage

If Daredevil the character is cool, Luke Cage the person is just super cool. I find it hilarious that Marvel consciously sat down one day and decided to create a black superhero, but almost unconsciously decided to make him into a walking talking avatar of stereotypical black culture. I mean, he's got bulletproof skin for crying out loud! I love Luke Cage's art depictions as well. His look has run the gauntlet from Denzel Washington to Sam Jackson. He's been bald, dreadlocked, crewcut, everything. He's worn singlets, leather jackets, satin shirts, everything. No one else has such an extensive wardrobe. Also, he's a devoted family man married to a nice girl with a beautiful baby and I would like to see more normal families in comics. I'm a traditionalist in that sense.

4. The Fantastic Four

I can't bear to leave any of them out, so they're all here. Everyone feels like they've known the FF for years. I love Reed and Sue, Johnny and Ben, Franklin and Valeria. They're nice people who deserve their status of being the least screwed up family in modern comics. Their powers are awesome and their adventures literally out of this world. Ultimate FF just made them even better, I feel. I can't think of Reed without glasses, for example. And they've got Ben Grimm. Ben Grimm is the most loveable guy in the universe.

5. The Black Panther

A little unorthodox, but hear me out. It's rare that you get a hero that isn't messed up in some way in today's comics. Spidey has guilt. Wolverine has his issues. Iron Man's the butt monkey of an entire company. So it's refreshing to read about a character that commands respect in-universe from virtually every quarter. T'Challa is competent, T'Challa is intelligent, and he tends to be correct in his judgment calls as well. Forget the crazy jungle origin or the politically incorrect Wakanda, the land where even advanced African nations still have to retain their exotic and third-world characteristics. T'Challa looks out for his people and married the other sane and competent woman in the MU, Storm. Even as a zombie he leads others and takes command. I like what he's achieved so far.

Honourable mentions: Wolverine (Enemy of the State), Spider-Man, Daisy Johnson agent of SHIELD (Secret War). She's super cute and impresses even Nick Fury.

Marvel Villains

1. Doctor Doom

Who else? Doom is just crazy awesome. He's got an ego the size of...well...the planet Ego and speaks about himself in the third person. He rules his own country and has invented things that Tesla couldn't dream of in a million years. He knows as much magic as he does about science. He's got an army of robots running around doing crazy stuff. Doom is a hell of a lot of fun, and when he shows up you know he's going to do something awesome. Evil, but awesome.

2. Magneto

Magneto has a fascinating backstory. A survivor of the Holocaust, he has grown into the very thing that he once most despised, a racial supremacist. His powers are mind-blowing, after all, magnetism is one of the four fundamental forces of the entire universe. His arrogance and belief in his abilities are equalled only by Doom. Magneto wants to convince the world of the inevitability of his cause, by any means necessary. Being a student of history, it's wonderful to see parallels between him and many historical figures.

3. Doctor Octopus

Bit of a personal choice, he was my personal favourite as a kid. Probably because he wore glasses like me. Anyway, Doc Ock is a fat git who's half-insane, but even in the cartoon those arms were cool. A very visually arresting character. Then Spider-Man 2 came around and Alfred Molina's performance blew me out of the water. For the first time in my life I felt sorry for Doc Ock, but Molina played the villain part tremendously as well. Of all of Spidey's colourful rogues gallery, Doc Ock's the best one for me.

4. Maria Hill

Oh come on, of course she qualifies. Uptight bitch with a stick up her ass, follows orders to the point of insanity, runs roughshod over our beloved heroes and in reality was just set up as an unknowing patsy by the Skrull Empire. Poor Maria. I really like her as a character, and I'm hoping she'll end up with Tony Stark, because they're perfect for each other. Oh, and I love her haircut.

5. Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner

I agree with the Wizard magazine article. In a world where good and evil is so clearly defined, Namor is the grey, the edge between light and dark. He sits on both the Illuminati and the Cabal, for Pete's sake. Namor just wants to protect and lead his people. He does not care if you live or die, just stay clear of the oceans. And he's got the enormous cojones to make it with Emma Frost while putting the moves on the married Sue Storm. Namor is brash, arrogant, violent, prickly and a great character.

Honourable Mention: Joe Quesada. One More Day. Brand New Day. Mary-Jane's blood is on your hands, you infernal hellspawn! Yours and yours alone!

[Avilan the Grey]

IMHO, of course.

DC:

1. Batman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Barbara Gordon
4. Power Girl
5. Superman

1. The Joker
2. The Riddler
3. Raz
4. Cheeta
5. Poison Ivy


Marvel:

1. Spiderman (before one more day)
1a. Ultimate Spiderman
2. Wolverine
3. Invisible woman
4. Iron Man
5. The Thing

1. Dr Doom
2. Magneto
3. Hobgoblin (before turned into a real goblin)
4. Green goblin
5. Sabretooth


...As you can see I am fairly limited in my reading. I don't follow enough DC titles to really pay attention to any non-Batman villains.
And I just can't decide between Spidey and Ultimate Spidey (part of me felt so good when he was back as a teenager).

[Dienekes]

I'll try my hand

DC Heroes
1) Batman (I know, so original. But he deserves his place)
2) Rorschach
3) Sandman
4) Jim Gordon (For where would Batman be without him?)
5) Martian Manhunter (I don't know, I've just always like this guy. Probably doesn't deserve to be on the list though. But I refuse to post Superman)

DC Villains (Ahh, the villains. Or, why I actually read comics)
1) Joker
2) Lex Luther
3) Two-Face
4) Darkseid
5) Lucifer

Marvel Heroes
1) Spiderman (kinda a poster boy)
2) Nick Fury (badass can take out supers with guns)
3) Iron Man (I'll be honest. I was never into Iron Man until the movie. But after reading some of his stuff afterwords I'll give him the spot)
4) Captain America
5) Cable

Marvel Villains
1) Magneto
2) Green Goblin
3) Dr. Doom
4) Kingpin
5) Apocalypse (Last one was tough. Though I refused to put in Galactus, because despite being super powered and drawing all the heroes together to fight him repeatedly. Let's face it, his personality is boring)

[chiasaur11]

Let's see:

DC Heroes:
1) Frank Rock
2) Ambush Bug!
3) Vic Sage.
4) RIP HUNTER, TIME MASTER! (Circa Booster Gold 1-12)
5) Dkrtzy Rrrr

Villains
1) Ambush Bug!
2) Deadshot
3) Captain Boomerang
4) Captain Cold
5) Villian the Villain

Marvel heroes:

1) Reed Richards. The one man Victor Von Doom fears.
2) Ben Grimm.
3) Beta Ray Bill.
4) Hawkeye (Barton)
5) Aaron Stack

Villains

1) Victor Von DOOM
2) Fin Fang FOOM
3) Devil Dinosaur
4) the other Fin Fang Foom
5) Robostalin

(Note: Ordering not final, lists subject to change without notice, based on the first villains to come to mind).

[Oslecamo]

You know what? I'm not so sure that he's a fictional character at all. There are plenty more like him walking around the streets of your city every day.


Except that your normal corrupt and powerfull businessman would have hired a shrink by now to treat his superman obsession. Heck, even da Joker paid some atention to the medics.

This is, Lex reached President, and then he throws it all away for going bersek after supes for the 53899th time.

Well, anyway here are my favs:

DC:
1-Superman, first and only indeed.
2-Batman. Because altough money can't give you everything, it helps. A LOT.
3-The Martian hunter.
4-Green Lantern.
5-Steel.

1-Joker. Because yes.
2-Luthor. One day he'll listen to the freaking shrink, and then he'll be nº1...
3-Brainiac:almost outsmarting Lex for a lot of time.
4-The owl. Because he learned to retire.
5-Darkseid. Because he created his own tecno-hell.

Marvel:
1-Spider man. Screw bullet-proof skin, I have jokes!:smallbiggrin:
2-Cycplops. Because someone has to be responsible on a team. And also for finally dumping Jean grey and geting married to a woman who doesn't sacrifice herself every other week.
3-Nick fury. One of the few true marvel badass normals. Gotta respect someone who can win a knive fight with da Wolverine.
4-Iron man. Because again Screw the rules, I have lots of money!
5-Colossus. Because it's a freaking commie hero who shows up relatively regularly! One day he'll bring the red revolution...:smallcool:

1-Green goblin! He got better from the most fatal death in marvel's history, then proceeded to become the second most important person in the USA. All legally of course. He's like a living incarnation of everything that Marvel stands for!
2-Doctor doom! He's like Lex Luthor, but actually managed to smoother his fantastic4 hatred and become the unquestionable legal ruler of his own nation.
3-Magneto. See above. But he holds back too much, and also trusts people too much. Almost a goody two shoes.
4-Galactus. He'll eat you alive. Literally. Unless that stupid Reed and his plot powers are nearby...
5-Thanos. Because he conquered the universe. Several times. But then he sacrificed himself to try to fix it...The fool...:smallfrown:


Dishonorable mentions:for the heros and villains that have been raped in the last times.

Brainiac smash!:He once actually gave superman a run for his money with his mighty technology, wich is something very impressive to say. A true master scientist.

Last time I saw him, he was trying to go in a muscle competition with supes(great idea, really...), and then almost takes an heart attack just by falling on a swamp and being covered by dirt...So sad...:smallyuk:

Spider man: He used to be my favorite hero. Now he's a pimp.

Skrulls, galactic conquerors losers:Dudes, I know you like to copy your oponent's powers, but equiping your troops only with spears to assault Wakanda is beyond any human stupidity. Heck the whole invasion arc made my brain scream in agony to how the whole skrull military could be so retarded.


Ultimate Mary-Suastic four:They're a bunch of inexperienced teenagers instead of adult professionals, yet seem to be a thousand times more godlike than their original versions.


Ultimate Nick "Pimp" Fury:You could give golden pants to everybody in the world in a single day, but it's so much funnier to force them to misery and thus force them to become super villains to get food...:smallfurious:

[bueagle]

Here's my list. Feel free to disagree with me; my lists are based on what I remember from the TV shows and comics I grew up with. :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

DC:
Heroes
1) Batman
2) Superman
3) Wonder Woman
4) Green Lantern
5) Captain Marvel

Villains
1) The Joker
2) Lex Luthor
3) Doomsday
4) Riddler
5) The Penguin

Marvel:
Heroes
1) Wolverine
2) Nick Fury
3) Reed Richards
4) Spider-Man
5) Thor

Villains
1) Magneto
2) Dr. Doom
3) Venom
4) Galactus
5) Apocalypse

[WitchSlayer]

Lots of Super-hate in this thread.
I suppose I'll have to grin and bear it. Or frown and bear it. Or whatever

DC Heroes:
1. Superman
2. Batman
3. Wonder Woman
4. Captain Marvel
5. Aquaman, sorry, but if we're going with most well know, Aquaman is up there due to all the comedy sketches about him

DC Villains:
1. Luthor
2. Joker
3. Scarecrow
4. Brainiac
5. Darkseid

Again trying to go for most well known, but it's probably not that accurate

Marvel's most well known are a bit... different, in the fact that a lot of them can't be without teams so...

Marvel Heroes:
1. Spider-Man
2. The Fantastic Four
3. The X-Men
4. The Hulk
5. Iron Man, assuming Wolverine is included with the X-Men. Captain America is also a contender

Marvel Villains:
1. Green Goblin
2. Magneto
3. Dr. Doom
4. Venom
5. Doc Ock? Galactus? I'm not sure.

If this was my personal favorite it would be completely different.

[Vic_Sage]

I dunno about having Superman at #1 for DC. He's iconic, sure, but it's also incredibly hard to care about a character (for me, anyway) who can do everything, and can't be hurt except by kryptonite, which everyone has, despite it being this rare alien metal.
It's why I always laugh at commercials for Smallville, that go along the lines of "has Clark finally met his match? Dun dun dunnnnn!" (it doesn't help that we all know he grows up to be Superman, so of course he'll be okay!)

So you haven't read any Supes in about seven years? Don't talk about **** you don't know.

DC Heroes
1. Alan Scott *Dude has Batman as his fanboy*
2. Superman
3. The Flash *Wally West*
4. The Blue Beetle *Ted, Dan, and Jaimie*
5. Kyle Raynor

DC Villains
1. Captain Cold
2. Heatwave
3. Mirror Master
4. Sinestro
5. Weather Wizard

Marvel Heroes
1. Nova
2. Star Lord
3. Spiderman
4. Molly Hayes
5. Pixie

Marvel Villians
1. Reverend Stryker
2. Doctor Doom
3. The Hood
4. Norman Osborn
5. The Shocker

[WitchSlayer]

Vic, you may be a fairly foulmouthed guy, but I have to say I'm glad to have you around.

[thegurullamen]

So you haven't read any Supes in about seven years? Don't talk about **** you don't know.

Okay, just as a primer for those of us who don't follow Supes, in broad strokes, what's changed in the past seven years?

[Vic_Sage]

Okay, just as a primer for those of us who don't follow Supes, in broad strokes, what's changed in the past seven years?
1. His powers recived a major downgrade. He's still very versatile and one of the strongest but no longer total god tier. Super strength based heroes who are better trained than him take him down with a bit of work and people with the Speed Force are usually faster than he is.

2. Still weak to K radiation but it actually is rare now

3. He's just as vulnerable to magic as anyone else. In other words if I was to cut him in the throat with a +1 Dagger it would kill him.

4. He's more susceptible to mind control than others due to his Krypotonian physiology.

5. This is one that's been around for awhile but Supes has never been the most powerful JL member really. One of the top guys but never the strongest. Usually as a safety precaution if a situation like the Maxwell Lord one happens again. The main plan if Supes goes rouge is to call in Alan Scott or Doc Fate.

All so question to you and the other guy, when was the last time you read a Superman comic in the first place?

[thegurullamen]

All so question to you and the other guy, when was the last time you read a Superman comic in the first place?

Personally, I don't read comics, but the Iron Man movie has gotten me interested enough to start sniffing around. Might pick up something Deadpool related in the near future.

As for Superman in particular, I have the same gripes that most people do: since a bunch of hacks got a hold of him from the early days, he's been portrayed like his Smallville counterpart--new problem=new powers. Even when he sticks to his standard array, the Man o' Steel's a Swiss Army Knife of powers. From the outside, it's all so Sueish. I'll look into it a little closer now, but he's still the gold standard as far as most of the mainstream is concerned which hasn't done much for him in my eyes.

There's also Smallville. I haven't been able to stomach anything Superman since well before the last movie, thanks to that horrible show. It strikes me as Supes doing 1960s Batman in the Oughties without the oh-so-important self-awareness.

[Oslecamo]

1. His powers recived a major downgrade. He's still very versatile and one of the strongest but no longer total god tier. Super strength based heroes who are better trained than him take him down with a bit of work and people with the Speed Force are usually faster than he is.

The problem with this is that, well, there are very few heros with more training that him. Actually there may be none.

In one of the most recent supes book, the other psycho hero dude who believed in killing the villains(can't remember his name) manages to get almost every freaking villain to gank in superman, including bizzarro with an awakened mind, moghul(space warlord and that, so plenty of training, and still supes beats him at his own game), the cyborg, metallo and dozens of others, and supes doesn't even takes it seriously! He just plays with them a little and then proceed to neutralize them in non fatal ways.



3. He's just as vulnerable to magic as anyone else. In other words if I was to cut him in the throat with a +1 Dagger it would kill him.
]
Sure, if you manage to beat his own superspeed, and supersenses.



4. He's more susceptible to mind control than others due to his Krypotonian physiology.
Says who? Mind controling villains try to take him every other week, and supes ends up breaking free with his good will or something like that. Brainiac has enslaved whole civilizations, but supes always resisted him.



5. This is one that's been around for awhile but Supes has never been the most powerful JL member really. One of the top guys but never the strongest. Usually as a safety precaution if a situation like the Maxwell Lord one happens again. The main plan if Supes goes rouge is to call in Alan Scott or Doc Fate.

Yeah, those contigency plans usually work really well, just like super villain cells. If the batman didn't design it personally, it's gonna fail.

[Vic_Sage]

Okay time to point out the bull****

The problem with this is that, well, there are very few heros with more training that him. Actually there may be none.
You would have a point if characters like Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and Lady Shiva didn't exist and trained Supes a bit.



In one of the most recent supes book, the other psycho hero dude who believed in killing the villains(can't remember his name) manages to get almost every freaking villain to gank in superman, including bizzarro with an awakened mind, moghul(space warlord and that, so plenty of training, and still supes beats him at his own game), the cyborg, metallo and dozens of others, and supes doesn't even takes it seriously! He just plays with them a little and then proceed to neutralize them in non fatal ways.
If I remember right that was a Loeb story and not canon.



Sure, if you manage to beat his own superspeed, and supersenses.
You'd have a point if people like Flash, Wonder Woman, Impulse, Alan Scott, the GL's, Doc Fate, Zatanna, Zatarra, and the countless other people that could do it easily.



Says who? Mind controlling villains try to take him every other week, and supes ends up breaking free with his good will or something like that. Brainiac has enslaved whole civilizations, but supes always resisted him.
Says Supes himself and all the times he has been mind controlled and the only way he gets freed is by help from others.




Yeah, those contigency plans usually work really well, just like super villain cells. If the batman didn't design it personally, it's gonna fail.
And the contingency plans do work well when planned by guys like Bats, Mr. Terrific, Alan Scott, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter.

[Oslecamo]

Okay time to point out the bull****

You would have a point if characters like Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and Lady Shiva didn't exist and trained Supes a bit.

Yes, and that's why supes is now the best, because he got training from all of them and some more, plus the super advanced kryptonian science and philosophy.



If I remember right that was a Loeb story and not canon.

So whatever doesn't fit your theories is noncanon?



You'd have a point if people like Flash, Wonder Woman, Impulse, Alan Scott, the GL's, Doc Fate, Zatanna, Zatarra, and the countless other people that could do it easily.

Then why when evil kryptonians apear from space, it's supes that needs to go and kick their asses back to the negative zone or whatever it's called?

Theory is nice and all, but when it comes to practice, superman will be the one wiping the floor with them. He just holds back all the time to give others a chance of glory because he's a nice guy. Plus not causing unnecessary destruction.

World's best series, for example, wich I believe to be as canon as they come, where batman and supes are corrupted, they atain world domination despite all those heroes.

And then the other world's best, where batman gets supes powers, and proceeds to beat the crap out of the JL. Sure he's stoped by magic in the end, but only with the help of supes master plan.

Really, the only thing that keeps Earth safe is that supes isn't interested in world conquest.

If you have any history example of wonder woman or any of the other characters you pointed out actually beating the crap out of superman , please point it out, because otherwise it's as good as Lex Luthor boasting his plan has no flaws, and then get his ass kicked by supes for the 6879th time.



Says Supes himself and all the times he has been mind controlled and the only way he gets freed is by help from others.

Yeah, he's a pretty modest guy, likes to give the others the chance to feel they did something.



And the contingency plans do work well when planned by guys like Bats, Mr. Terrific, Alan Scott, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter.

What about the crisis arc that ended recently? One whole universe destroyed doesn't seem much like "work well". And all because of an infalible batman plan.

[WitchSlayer]

No. Really. Superman/Batman is non-canon. Pretty much always has been.

[Oslecamo]

Ok, so what the f**** is canon then? Because for everything it seems everything DC publishes at my store is noncannon at this rate.

EDIT:Plus, at the lack of canonical supes vs wonder/woman/martianhunter/whatever fights, well, I guess we have to rely in canon material on who's strongest.

[WitchSlayer]

Well The Brave and the Bold is non-canon. Superman/Batman is non-canon. All the Johnny DC books are non-canon. Anything that was retconned out is non-canon.

[chiasaur11]

But it's all still canon for Dr. Who.

[Zevox]

Well, I don't have a great variety of interest in or experience with superheroes from either company. The only comics I've read are recent compilations of Green Lantern stories (Rebirth, Sinestro Corps War, Tales of the Sinestro Corps, Rage of the Red Lanterns, and Sins of the Star Sapphires), so other than that all I have to go off is cartoons (mainly the Justice League ones on the DC end and the three X-Men series on the Marvel end) and movies (and I haven't even seen all those - didn't bother with The Dark Knight or The Hulk, to name two recent ones). And truth be told the only heroes I've ever really had that much of an interest in are Green Lantern and the X-Men anyway. So by nature my lists will be very limited. But here they are:

DC Heroes:
1) Green Lantern
- Specifics:
--1) John Stewart
--2) Guy Gardener
--3) Kilowag
--4) Hal Jordan
--5) Kyle Rayner
2) Green Arrow
3) Martian Manhunter
4) The Flash
5) Wonder Woman, I guess. Kinda ran out of characters I have any real interest in after The Flash.

No, no Superman. Yes, he's iconic and all, but in my mind, that's actually part of the problem. He's the archetypal superhero - and thus, bland. He was interesting back when I was a kid and the very concept of a superhero was new and fascinating. Now? Not so much. Also no Batman, simply because I'm not a fan of his character concept. On a more positive note, Alan Scott and Jade might make it onto my top 5 GLs list one day, if I ever see more of them than the little appearances they had in Green Lantern: Rebirth.

DC Villains:
1) Sinestro and his corps.
-- Particularly like Arkillo and Karu-Sil. Too bad they get fairly minimal screen time in the comics I've read.
2) Braniac (animated version, which I hear differs from the comic one)
3) Darkseid
4) Hank Henshaw/Cyborg Superman (though I hesitate to include him separate from the Sinestro Corps, since that's the only place I know of him from)
5) The Anti-Monitor (same comment as with #4)

Yeah, my lack of interest in non-GL DC characters really shows through here. I know of others, of course - Lex Luthor, the Joker, the Riddler, Ultra-Humanite, Gorilla Grodd, etc - I just don't really like them.

Marvel Heroes:
1) The X-Men
- Specifics
--1) Storm
--2) Shadowcat
--3) Gambit
--4) Nightcrawler
2) Iron Man
3) Spider Man

...and I run out at 3. Meh. I am kinda interested in Thor, but I haven't actually seen him in anything yet - I'll have to wait for the movie. And no, no Wolverine even on my specific X-Men list. He's a good character, but only in small doses, as a side story to the main X-Men stories, in my mind. Thus, not a favorite for me. Nor Captain America, for similar reasons to Superman on the DC end.

Marvel Villains:
1) Magneto

...wow, and here I run dry at 1. Magneto is just that awesome, though - I actually like him even more than any of the DC villains, and most heroes, for that matter. And while I know of numerous other Marvel villains, I can't say I really like them that much. Apocalypse is powerful, but kinda dull. Most of the other X-Men villains I could name would merely be Magneto's subordinates, like Quicksilver and the Brotherhood, or Sabretooth, or Pyro, and most of them aren't interesting enough for me to put them in a top anything list. Spider-Man's villains don't interest me at all (which is probably part of why I have the least interest in him out of any of the Marvel characters I can say I like). And the only other one I know off the top of my head is Doctor Doom out of the Fantastic Four, but I've only seen him in the movie and the old cartoon, and wasn't impressed with him in either case.

Zevox

[Vic_Sage]

No, no Superman. Yes, he's iconic and all, but in my mind, that's actually part of the problem. He's the archetypal superhero - and thus, bland. He was interesting back when I was a kid and the very concept of a superhero was new and fascinating. Now? Not so much. Also no Batman, simply because I'm not a fan of his character concept. On a more positive note, Alan Scott and Jade might make it onto my top 5 GLs list one day, if I ever see more of them than the little appearances they had in Green Lantern: Rebirth.

If you wanna read more stuff about Alan Scott check out Justice Socieity of America. Jade mainly shows up in Green Lantern *Kyle's run*, The Outsiders, and some JSA stories.

[chiasaur11]

Doctor Doom out of the Fantastic Four, but I've only seen him in the movie and the old cartoon, and wasn't impressed with him in either case.

Zevox

Read Fantastic Four 1-100, and 334-354.

Trust me. The cartoons and films don't do Victor justice.

They also don't do Ben Grimm justice. If he doesn't get on your list after, say, issue 51?

You're dead to me.

[Vic_Sage]

Read Fantastic Four 1-100, and 334-354.

Trust me. The cartoons and films don't do Victor justice.

They also don't do Ben Grimm justice. If he doesn't get on your list after, say, issue 51?

You're dead to me.
Ben's solo series was all so quite good.

[chiasaur11]

Ben's solo series was all so quite good.

Oh yeah.

Both the old marvel 2-in-one and the modern Dan Slott series.

Man. Ben is awesome.

[Vic_Sage]

I like pretty much everyone in the FF, but Reed has a habit of pissing me off every other story arc.

[chiasaur11]

I like pretty much everyone in the FF, but Reed has a habit of pissing me off every other story arc.

Reed seldom pisses me off. Not never, mind, but not often.

People writing Reed often do. In fact, I'd say Reed done right is a sign of a good FF run, and Reed done wrong guarantees a stinker.

[Dienekes]

All so question to you and the other guy, when was the last time you read a Superman comic in the first place?

7 days ago.

Please acknowledge, it's not his power I dislike. Hell, it's a super hero comic.

It's the fact he has as intriguing a personality as my rug.

[lisiecki]

Okay, just as a primer for those of us who don't follow Supes, in broad strokes, what's changed in the past seven years?

geoff johns

[X2]

I personally like Superman's personality, why is it everytime there's a character who just wants the best for everyone without some sort of ulterior motive they're "boring".

I personally am sick to death of the old paint-by-numbers tragic backstory and tortured hero. Hell I was sick of it after Batman. It's nice to just have a good natured hero once in a while.

But that's just me.

[kpenguin]

I personally like Superman's personality, why is it everytime there's a character who just wants the best for everyone without some sort of ulterior motive they're "boring".

I personally am sick to death of the old paint-by-numbers tragic backstory and tortured hero. Hell I was sick of it after Batman. It's nice to just have a good natured hero once in a while.

But that's just me.

THANK YOU XARTY.

[WitchSlayer]

By the way, Xarty, nice avatar.

[X2]

THANK YOU XARTY.

Maybe we should start some sort of club?


By the way, Xarty, nice avatar.

Thankyou! I made it for a DC week in ABR, I really should go back there.

[Vic_Sage]

I personally like Superman's personality, why is it everytime there's a character who just wants the best for everyone without some sort of ulterior motive they're "boring".

I personally am sick to death of the old paint-by-numbers tragic backstory and tortured hero. Hell I was sick of it after Batman. It's nice to just have a good natured hero once in a while.

But that's just me.
Because according to Dido good natured and fun doesn't sell to well *Is still mad over treatment Young Justice got*.

[kpenguin]

All-Star Superman was good natured and fun and good. Brought out the Superman love in me.

[Dienekes]

I personally like Superman's personality, why is it everytime there's a character who just wants the best for everyone without some sort of ulterior motive they're "boring".

I personally am sick to death of the old paint-by-numbers tragic backstory and tortured hero. Hell I was sick of it after Batman. It's nice to just have a good natured hero once in a while.

But that's just me.

That's your opinion, and fine.

Though, I'm not exactly talking about backstories here. I'm talking about personality, there's a difference. You can still be a guy who's solely good and righteous like Supes and be interesting. Supes however, is just bland. There's no substance behind him at all.

Take Fables for example. (not a super hero comic I know) but 2 characters are the pinnacle of perfect do gooders, Boy Blue and Flycatcher. But they have personality, and they have a substance that draws the reader to them (or me, as I don't presume to speak for everyone. Especially when I'm going against one of the more popular heroes of all time). It's not just about tragic back story (though Supes has one as well, mind you) it's how the character is overall presented. And I'm sorry, Supes bores me to tears.

[chiasaur11]

THANK YOU XARTY.

I agree with this one.

And bland?

Maybe the tiniest bit, but I've read Busiek. I know just how good Supes is when written well.

(And just how nasty he could be if he wanted. But he doesn't so he isn't and that's the end of that.)

[Zevox]

I personally like Superman's personality, why is it everytime there's a character who just wants the best for everyone without some sort of ulterior motive they're "boring".
Don't know about anyone else, but for me, someone whose personality can be summed up as "I'm the good guy" became boring by definition many years ago.

Zevox

[X2]

That's your opinion, and fine.

Though, I'm not exactly talking about backstories here. I'm talking about personality, there's a difference. You can still be a guy who's solely good and righteous like Supes and be interesting. Supes however, is just bland. There's no substance behind him at all.

Take Fables for example. (not a super hero comic I know) but 2 characters are the pinnacle of perfect do gooders, Boy Blue and Flycatcher. But they have personality, and they have a substance that draws the reader to them (or me, as I don't presume to speak for everyone. Especially when I'm going against one of the more popular heroes of all time). It's not just about tragic back story (though Supes has one as well, mind you) it's how the character is overall presented. And I'm sorry, Supes bores me to tears.

I think I phrased it wrong... I did mean personality as well as backstory.

[chiasaur11]

Don't know about anyone else, but for me, someone whose personality can be summed up as "I'm the good guy" became boring by definition many years ago.

Zevox

Sure, done wrong I'd agree.

But some writers (Busiek, Morrison, and ENNIS of all people, for example) his characterization really sings.

Hammer and Rodgers pulled a similar trick in Blue Beetle.

[kpenguin]

Paul Dini's Supes in STAS was good as well.

[chiasaur11]

Paul Dini's Supes in STAS was good as well.

True.

But he was a bit less Supermanny in JLA and JLU.

Not a criticism (it worked there) just an observation.

[X2]

I have to read that, but I'd have better luck finding red kryptonite.

[kpenguin]

STAS is a show... you could read the captioning, I guess.

[chiasaur11]

I have to read that, but I'd have better luck finding red kryptonite.

Which?

Because if you haven't read Superman Secret Identity, that's some prime Supermanny goodness. And I think a lot of libraries have it.

[X2]

STAS is a show... you could read the captioning, I guess.

Whoops, I thought you meant All-Star.

[Dienekes]

I think I phrased it wrong... I did mean personality as well as backstory.

Well, if that's what you like. I am not one to say you're wrong.

I'll say I disagree with you heartily, but that's as far as I go.

I'll be honest. Most of the time I read Supes, it's not even Supes I'm interested in. It's what's going on around him that's intriguing. I feel that's a flaw, when generally reading stories based on characters are more interesting when the character in question is out of the picture.

Now this is not even always the case. There are times when Supes can be epic (look at his world is cardboard speech), though epic and good character I regard as two distinct things.

[kpenguin]

Too each his own, I suppose. I'll not quibble.

[X2]

Well, if that's what you like. I am not one to say you're wrong.

I'll say I disagree with you heartily, but that's as far as I go.

I'll be honest. Most of the time I read Supes, it's not even Supes I'm interested in. It's what's going on around him that's intriguing. I feel that's a flaw, when generally reading stories based on characters are more interesting when the character in question is out of the picture.

Now this is not even always the case. There are times when Supes can be epic (look at his world is cardboard speech), though epic and good character I regard as two distinct things.

That's fine, you can have an opinion too, sorry if it seems like I'm trying to force an opinion.

[Vic_Sage]

Sure, done wrong I'd agree.

But some writers (Busiek, Morrison, and ENNIS of all people, for example) his characterization really sings.

Hammer and Rodgers pulled a similar trick in Blue Beetle.
THe thing about Ennis is that Ennis loves Superheroes, Supes especially. But then the 90's happened and Supes and other hero's were being made GRIM & DARK & TOTALLY extreme which just pissed him off and led to things like the Boys and Herogasm. But goddamn is Hitman/Superman beautiful.

[chiasaur11]

THe thing about Ennis is that Ennis loves Superheroes, Supes especially. But then the 90's happened and Supes and other hero's were being made GRIM & DARK & TOTALLY extreme which just pissed him off and led to things like the Boys and Herogasm. But goddamn is Hitman/Superman beautiful.

Nah.

He dislikes Superheroes, from what I've heard, or at least mocks them.

He just likes Superman.

[kpenguin]

Ennis doesn't like the darker and edgier 90's? That... actually makes a bit of sense. Being Ennis during the 90's would be like being a comedian on April Fool's Day.

[X2]

This is getting out of hand...

Let me make a discussion thread.

EDIT: Let's go!

[Avilan the Grey]

Ultimate Mary-Suastic four:[/I]They're a bunch of inexperienced teenagers instead of adult professionals, yet seem to be a thousand times more godlike than their original versions.

Although I think it's more that they actually use their potential.
Or as Sue points out (in regular FF) somewhere in the early 90ies to Doom: "Have you ever considered how deadly my powers would be if I used them that way?"

[X2]

Although I think it's more that they actually use their potential.
Or as Sue points out (in regular FF) somewhere in the early 90ies to Doom: "Have you ever considered how deadly my powers would be if I used them that way?"

Theres a discussion thread now kiddo.

[Avilan the Grey]

Because according to Dido good natured and fun doesn't sell to well *Is still mad over treatment Young Justice got*.

I love good natured and fun! Look at the comics I'm following: Power Girl, Wonder Woman, Ultimate Spiderman (So far I like the Reboot).

I admit I have not really followed Superman since I was like 12 and discovered X-men. I cross paths with him, but yes... Personality like a Mug.



Theres a discussion thread now kiddo.

Heh. If I recall, she kinda rattled him.

[FoE]

Top 6 Marvel Heroes

1) Spider-Man
2) Spider-Man
3) Spider-Man
4) Spider-Man
5) Spider-Man
6) Deadpool
7) Ghost Rider

I was only going to do the top 5, but Deadpool insisted I include him at gunpoint. And I figured, what the hell, make it lucky seven with Ghost Rider.

Top 5 DC Heroes
1) Batman (tied with Superman!)
2) Superman (tied with Batman!)
3) Raven
4) Changeling
5) Robin

Yez, I like Teen Titans. What, wanna fight about it?

Top 5 Marvel Villains
1) Green Goblin
2) Venom
3) Apocalypse
4) Doctor Octopus
5) Bullseye

Probably the toughest list. I know a lot of people have mentioned Magneto, but for me, that guy's portrayal has always been way over the map. One minute he's a well-intentioned extremist, the next he's a genocidal terrorist.

Top 5 DC Villains
1) Lex Luthor
2) Darkseid
3) Doomsday
4) The Joker
5) Deadshot

Deadshot's an odd pick, I know, but I always thought he was teh cool when I was a kid. And Doomsdsay's usually not on the top 10 list, but I like what he represents: a villain that can match Superman physically without stealing his powers or shoving kryptonite up his arse.

Also, that scene from All-Star Superman where Jimmy Olson became Doomsday was awesome.

[Starfols]

DC Heroes:
1 The Question
2 Guy Gardner
3 Blue Beetle
4 Batman
5 Starman (the new one)

DC Villains:
1 Snowflame
2 The Scarecrow
3 Calender Man
4 Batzarro
5 Codpiece

Marvel Heroes:
1 Squirrel Girl
2 Deadpool
3 Ash Williams (if Marvel Zombies/Army of Darkness counts)
4 Professor X
5 Starfox

Marvel Villains:
1 Mysterio
2 Stilt-Man
3 Deadpool counts here too
4 Magneto
5 Electro

[Zeta Kai]

Top DC Heroes

Batman
Superman
Spider Jerusalem
Nightwing
Oracle

Top DC Villains

The Joker
Two-Face
Darkseid
Catwoman
Lex Luthor

Top Marvel Heroes

Deadpool
Spiderman
The Hulk
Nightcrawler
The Human Torch

Top Marvel Villains

Dr. Doom
Galactus
Magneto
Thanatos
Juggernaut

[X2]

Alternate List

Top 5 DC/Marvel Movies
1. Superman II
2. Batman
3. Spider-man
4. Iron Man
5. Superman/The Dark Knight (tie)

Bottom 5 DC/Marvel Movies
1. Batman & Robin
2. Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
3. Hulk
4. Superman III
5. Fantastic Four/Batman Begins (again tie)

[Dienekes]

what was wrong with Begins? it had LIAM NEESON.

Top movies
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman
3. Batman Begins (I know, batman heavy. But he's had some great movies. And some terrible, terrible travesties)
4. Watchmen (for all it's faults it was still better than other Marvel or DC movies)
5. Superman II (Kneel before Zod)
6. hard to choose between Iron Man or Spiderman

bottom movies
1. Batman and Robin (no other movie can ever hold this position)
2. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
3. Batman Forever
4. All other Superman movies (yep, I'm even placing Superman 1 on this list, simply because I completely detested how idiotic Lex became and the scenes between Supes and Lois were painful)
5. Fantastic Four
6. Hulk (the one with the hulkified pooches)

Edit: Crap I forgot to find a place for that Judge Dredd movie. Anyone know how bad it goes compared to the others listed?

[Starfols]

Edit: Crap I forgot to find a place for that Judge Dredd movie. Anyone know how bad it goes compared to the others listed?

You Don't need to. Judge Dredd is Eagle comics, not Marvel or DC.

[chiasaur11]

You Don't need to. Judge Dredd is Eagle comics, not Marvel or DC.

Although he did meet Batman once.

[Dienekes]

You Don't need to. Judge Dredd is Eagle comics, not Marvel or DC.

huh, I always thought it was DC for some reason.

thanks for clearing that up

[Cracklord]

DC Heroes
1) Batman (duh)
2) Rorschach (If only there was some way to combine the two...)
3) Alt-World Joker (The Joker as a vigilante, scarred by Owlman, just as crazy in the same way as his usual counterpart, but theoritically a hero).
4) Green Arrow (sticks up for the little guy, and is a lefty, and pure awesome.)
5) Martian Manhunter (I have no idea why, but he appeals to me somehow)

DC Villains (Ahh, the villains. The best bit.)
1) Joker (And Harley deserves special mention)
2) Ozmanius
3) Doomsday (Unstoppable. That's what we want. And what he did to Superman made my soul dance. They should use him more often.)
4) Bane (I read Knightfall, and whatever they do to Bane, they can't take that away from me).
5) Lobo (When done well, he is too awesome for words. Why is he never done well?)

Marvel Heroes
1) Beast (but only when he's blue and dating Storm)
2) Nick Fury (Particularly when played by Samuel L Jackson)
3) Ultimate Thor (Crazed messiah god)
4) Storm (She's hot. That's pretty much it.)
5) Xavier is good sometimes

Marvel Villains
1) Magneto (God yes)
2) Venom (I don't like Spidey, but something about Venom works for me...)
3) Dr. Doom (Very awesome. Everything a villain should be)
4) Sabertooth (Early Sabertooth, who was feral, probably Wolverine's father, and routinely beat Wolverine. He died, and was replaced by a much less awesome counterpart.)
5) Thanos (His look, alone, is enough)

[industrious]

DC Heroes
1. Batman
2. Midnighter
3. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
4. Dr. Manhattan
5. Green Lantern (Bruce Wayne)

Marvel Heroes
1. Deadpool
2. Spider-Man (before OMD)
3. Karolina (from Runaways)
4. Professor X
5. Tony Stark (pre Civil War)

DC Villains
1. Lex Luthor
2. Mr. Mxyzptlk
3. The Joker
4. Harry Bendix
5. Darkseid

Marvel Villains
1. Magneto
2. Deadpool
3. Emma Frost
4. The Pride
5. Kingpin

[WitchSlayer]

Dr. Manhattan isn't the main DCU. And I wouldn't really call him a hero.
And the time Bruce was actually a Green Lantern the story wasn't that good... Unless you're talking about that one cover. Which lies.

Edit: Oh. By the way Minion. They did use Doomsday recently. He got the crap beaten out of him by around 15 kryptonians.
Long story.

[kpenguin]

DC Heroes
1. Batman
2. Midnighter
3. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
4. Dr. Manhattan
5. Green Lantern (Bruce Wayne)

Midnighter is Wildstorm.

[X2]

Altenate Top 5 List!

Top 5 Single Issues In My Collection (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7029321&postcount=25)
1. Blackest Night Superman 1 (97/100)
2. Action Comics 870 (94/100)
3. Action Comics 867 (93/100)
4. Batman and Robin 1 (91/100)
5. Blackest Night 3 (88/100)

Bottom 5 Single Issues In My Collection (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7029321&postcount=25)
1. Titans 15 (2/100)
2. Booster Gold 20 (10/100)
3. Titans 1 (22/100)
4. X-Men 188 (33/100)
5. Red Robin 1 (40/100)

[darkblade]

Midnighter is Wildstorm.

Which is owned by DC and played minor roles in Infinite and Final Crisis.

[Cracklord]

Edit: Oh. By the way Minion. They did use Doomsday recently. He got the crap beaten out of him by around 15 kryptonians.
Long story.

I read the death of superman. They can't take that away from me.
Anyway, it will take sixteen kryptonians next time. Then more, and more, until they can't stop him again. Ha!

I can't make myself like new Krypton, no matter how hard I try. I can only help Lobo, after repressing his innate need for violence for a while, decides to do away with them, makes some ultimate weapon that he shouldn't even be able to comprehend, gives himself an A then goes of to do his thing.

[d3vil]

DC Heroes

1. Batman (Bruce Wayne)
2. Batman of Zurr-En-Arh, that one was ridiculously awesome. Read Batman R.I.P. if you didn't it rocks.
3. Batman (**** Grayson)
4. Batman (Jean-Paul Valley)
5. Bat-Mite (Mr. Mxzytlpctl-Species-Thingy in a Batsuit? Where can I sign up?), he does cout as a hero, does he?

DC Villains

1. Joker, for being super-sane.
2. Darkseid.
3. Doomsday, for proving that Superman is not so super and should be Batmans sidekick so that he can learn where his place in the DC Universe is.
4. Poison Ivy, because Uma Thurman was hot and made the movie .. uh .. uuuh ... better than the other batman movies by Schumacher? Maybe? A little bit? Okay, okay, I want 2 hours of my life back.
5. Jason Todd. Batman in a medieval armor with machine guns?

Marvel Heroes

1. Dr. X. Highly gifted, disabled genius? Thank you Marvel for writing my biography. No, seriously, i just have to wait 30 years and get bald, then I can cosplay him.
2. Wolverine, because, oh my god, he looked SO cool to me when I was a kid. He got me into comics.
3. Spiderman, for reviving movie adaptions. And because his "spidersense is tingeling".
4. Iron Man. ROBO-SUIT!!!
5. Fantastic 4.

Marvel Villains

1. Venom. Parasites rock.
2. Galaktus. What did you have for dinner? Earth.
3. Apocalypse.
4. Doc Ock.
5. Magneto.

[Erts]

Has everyone forgotten DC published Watchmen?

DC Hero's:
1: Batman

Batman has always been my favorite, sense I was a little kid. The thinking superhero, the embodiment of all that humans can reach, and simply the most badass of them all in my mind. Has the best written stories as well.

2: Rorschach.

Yeah, I'll say Rorschach. Not because I particularly agree with him, but because I think that he is a very interesting character, and that a person who believes so strongly in a cause is generally likable.

3: Superman.

Just an all around well developed and interesting character. The cool thing is the ammount that a character with as invincible (and seemingly boring) as Supes, he still has great stories written about him.

4: Robin (**** Grayson.)

I used to think (before I started reading the comics) that Robin was a rather silly character into the dark story of Batman. Then I read Dark Victory. I know better now.

5: Dr. Manhattan

Very interesting depiction of an omnipotent being, with great character development.


DC Villains:

1. The Joker

Most chilling of all villains, most interesting as well. Perfectly mirrors his enemy, and as they say, a good hero is as only as good as a good villain.

2. Two Face

Very reflective of his foe as well, starred in some excellent stories, the best being Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

3. Ozymandias

I know that Ozymandias isn't your cut and dry villian, and some people consider him to be a good person. Tough luck. He still is the antagonist of the story. He was a person who you could see that he wasn't crazy, or evil. He just wanted to help the world.

4. Lex Luthor

Funny that Superman's biggest foe is a bald guy. Still, great stories have been written about him.

5. Bane/Riddler/Scarecrow/Black Mask/Hush/Penguin/Ra's Al Ghul/Mr. Freeze/the Falcone Family/Jason Todd/Harley Quinn

Any major Batman villains I left out I probably left out for a reason. (Note: Don't consider Catwoman a villain.) All of these people are very interesting. To quote something I wrote on TvTropes:

"Also important to note is that many of Batman's villains represent a little part of the Dark Knight. Scarecrow is how much he uses fear to his advantage. Riddler is for his critical thinking skills which make him the best detective in the DCU. Two Face is his obsession with his dual identities, like how he says "There is no Bruce Wayne," and how he tries to put out a sense of order into the world. Mr. Freeze represents the tragic past of a loss of a loved one, and how it can drive someone to a steely cold personality. Hush and Black Mask are both "anti-Bruce Wayne's", with them killing their own parents and being very rich themselves. Rah's Ahl Ghul is Batman's ties to the martial art world which he trained in. "

Marvel Hero's

1. Hulk.

Awesome character. Great catch phrases, and you know stuff is serious when Hulk is there.

2. Iron Man


I don't know why, but I really like the guy. (Note, I mean before Civil War and he turned stupid.) Seems like an interesting character, and great costume.

3. Spiderman

I grew up on the Spiderman comics in the paper. That's probably why.

4. Proffesor Xavier

I always liked him, most interesting of the original X Men (first comic book I read was the first 10.)

5. Wolverine

Best origin story out of the Marvel lot. That's probably why he's there.

Marvel Villains

1. Magneto

Most interesting villain of the first comic I read. Good development too.

2. Deadpool

While he isn't a villian any more, he still is so funny that I gotta fit him in somewhere.

3. Galactus

Interesting character, interesting plot which introduced him.

4. Green Goblin

Cool gadgets, great costume.

5. Sabretooth

Very good counterpart to Wolverine, interesting idea how he fights him every year.

Whew... I think this is the longest post I ever have done...
I hope nobody has used Watchmen yet.

[Tyrant]

Top 5 DC heroes
Fair warning about my DC opinions, I don't read as much DC as Marvel and I am a little behind current events.
1) Superman. I view him as the no brainer. I may not like his boyscout image, but he does get the job done. And I really liked Red Son.
2) Batman. Like Superman, he's iconic. I may dislike how there seems to be no situation he can't prepare for, but I really liked B:TAS and the recent Batman movies.
3) Green Lantern. We'll go with Hal because he's the one I have read the most about. Space faring cop with the one of the universe's most powerful weapons. What's not to like. Honorable mention for Kyle Rayner.
4) Detective Chimp (or maybe it's Chimp Detective). What's not to love about a Chimp who drank from the fountain of youth, becamse self aware, then became a detective. All that only to lose it all because apparently people don't have to actually pay chimps for their service which drove him to drinking.
5.) Blue Beetle (Ted Kord). He figured out Maxwell Lord was up to something major when everyone else ignored him and he payed the price for it.

Top 5 DC Villains
1) Lex Luthor. The best hero needs the best villain. Sure, most of the time his plan is yet another way for him to fail, but he's iconic. That and I liked how he handled Alexander Luthor in Infinite Crisis.
2) Darkseid. Most of what I know about him comes from the Superman Animated Series where he was a good villain. What I have seen of him in the regular books backs that up.
3) Black Adam. I'm going to list him as a villain. His rulership of Kandaq and his method of handling international affairs was straight and to the point.
4) Sinestro. I liked the Sinestro Corps arc. The idea of a rival lantern corps is interesting and Sinestro leading it makes sense.
5) Ozymandius. He was a one shot, so he's down the list. Basically, he's here because it's debatable if he is a villain (he isn't a hero, in any case). More importantly, he won.


Top 5 Marvel Heroes
1) Spider Man. I like that he seems to have tons of real problems (these can vary depending on the time frame, lately the problem is being a Marvel character under the Quesada reign) and yet he keeps on going.
2) Captain America. Not really superhuman yet he fights in the big leagues.
3) Iron Man.
4) Cyclops. I don't get the hate everyone throws at him.
5) Zombie Spider Man. The most recent issue I have is issue 2 or 3 of the current series and he at least seems like he is trying to stop the undead plague. He brings a whole new meaning to organic webbing too.

Top 5 Marvel Villains
1) Dr. Doom. I haven't read his really iconic stuff, but what I have read tells me he should be here.
2) Ultron. Genocidal killing machine with an Adamantium shell. He wiped out an entire country and built an army of duplicates. Turns out he's Hank Pym minus morality.
3) Thanos. He's all but won more than once. His possible end is dying to permanently close the revolving door on Marvel's afterlife. Apparently Wonder Man is part of a far reaching problem that will eventually destroy the universe.
4) Apocalypse. He's not met with a lot of success in modern 616 Marvel, but he seems to win just about every place else.
5) Mephisto. He's the Devil, does he really need any more reason to be on this list?

[chiasaur11]

4) Detective Chimp (or maybe it's Chimp Detective). What's not to love about a Chimp who drank from the fountain of youth, becamse self aware, then became a detective. All that only to lose it all because apparently people don't have to actually pay chimps for their service which drove him to drinking.

I knew I forgot someone.

And REX, THE WONDERDOG! He's a good dog.

He's a very good dog.

[Vic_Sage]

I knew I forgot someone.

And REX, THE WONDERDOG! He's a good dog.

He's a very good dog.
He's the pup of Alan Scott's dog, thats instant badass points there.

[darkblade]

DC Villains:
1 Snowflame



A shame he died in his first appearance. Maybe we'll have a cocaine powered Black Lantern?

[chiasaur11]

He's the pup of Alan Scott's dog, thats instant badass points there.

Wait. How?

Alan's dog wasn't in play till the end of WW deuce, and Rex was one of the most elite canine combatants in that conflict.

[Vic_Sage]

I think I'm getting my superhero dogs mixed up.

[Cracklord]

Ah, Rex the Wonder dog.
He manages, on different occasions, to survive attacks from lions, wolves, bears, panthers, and even octopuses. Rex could ride a horse, operate small appliances, and swing on ropes or vines.
Rex killed a Tyrannosaurus Rex(!) with an Atom bomb(?!)
He works in newspaper, takes pictures and solves crimes.
He beat a medieval knight in a joust(:smallconfused:??)
He can ski like a champion. He can parachute into the amazon and save his owner from cannibals, by impersonating a deity.
And he's apparently just an ordinary dog, no super powers or anything.
Rex is, without a doubt, the most powerful comic book character ever.