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View Full Version : [4E] Balance Issues in H3:Pyramid of Shadows



Hzurr
2009-09-29, 02:28 PM
As I'm sure some of you are aware, my group is playing through the 4E campaigns (modified), and are currently about 90% of the way through H3 - Pyramid of Shadows. Last night, after a particularly brutal fight, I stopped back to think about some of the encounters, and it seems to me that the pyramid almost overly difficult. I currently have 6 players, am not adjusting the difficulty, and they're only making it through by the skin of their teeth, (and that's with me pulling a few punches. Not many, but it has made the difference between life and death on at least an occasion or two). The party is overall a very capable group. There's a couple of members who are a little weak, so it could probably be seen as a party of 5.5 characters rather than 6. They have plenty of healing, good damage output, pretty good front liners, and the best controlling I've ever seen. These guys are no amateurs, but the pyramid is beating them like British Orphans.

A few of the biggest problem encounters I've seen so far- Note: There will be spoilers, so if you're playing it, or are planning to play it, you might want to skip this

The Library of Whispers - 4 normal enemies, and a leader that can grant them all an additional attack? This is terrifying. If there's focus fire, you're talking about up to 4d8+20 + 4d10+20 damage (not including crits) on one target before it could even have a chance to act. For a level 7 character, this can mean going from full to death in one round, easily.

The Ice Chambers - This one is either a walk in the park, or exceptionally deadly. (a way to determine the answer to this question is: Do you have a Cleric in the party?) - the stacking aura from the zombies is deadly. This would be bad, but with all the abilities that slow or immobilize, bad turns to disastrous very quickly. At one point, we had PCs taking 30 damage as soon as their turn started (multiple auras, frigid aura, ongoing damage from the demon, ongoing damage from the zombies), but were immobilized and unable to escape. Ouch.


Maze of Lost Souls - There are 2 reasons this is ridiculous: 1) Party tactics and maneuverability are out the window because of the narrowness of the maze 2) The Banshee ignore the walls for line of effect, and can phase. This means the Banshees are impossible to catch, the party can't really pin them in, and the Banshees can sit in another hall and destroy the party without ever putting themselves in danger. Add in the skeletons to slow the party down while the Banshees recharge, and life sucks.

The Shadow Stone - Hey, I've got an idea! Let's put in 4 creatures who can create large portions of darkness that they only have to spend a minor action to maintain, and give them ridiculous sneak attack! The problem is, even if the party is able to get a zone of darkness down, one of the other creepers can immediately put it back up. This encounter is the only time I've seen the party go into something with 100% of their resources, and barely crawl away alive.


So...yes. While there are other difficult encounters (Chamber of the Monoliths, Howls from Beyond, the Arborean encounters), none of them feel so 1-sided against the party like those listed did.

A few questions for everyone: Were my experiences with this unique, or is this universally seen as difficult? How does a party with only 5 PCs, or with PCs that aren't optimized function in a module like this? Is this the standard difficulty curve for the rest of the modules?

Jack_Banzai
2009-09-29, 08:30 PM
No. I felt exactly the same way. My party was run through Pyramid of Shadows and it made me want to punch Mike Mearls in the face. It was clearly designed for the DMs and not the players.

Tehnar
2009-09-30, 12:49 AM
Could you provide a little more details for us who don't have the module? Things like what monsters are there?

Hzurr
2009-09-30, 01:58 PM
Could you provide a little more details for us who don't have the module? Things like what monsters are there?

Sure. I'll give the names and approximate ability descriptions for the 4 encounters I highlighted. I italicized the parts of the monsters that I feel made the balance go really wonky.

The Library of Whispers (EL 8):
2 Eater of Knowledge Voidblades- lvl 6 soldier - Have a basic scimitar attack that marks (you take damage if you attack someone else), and a recharging burst ability that does damage and immobilization
2 Eater of Knowledge Thoughtbows - Lvl 7 Artillery - Are stationed on a balcony above the party. Basic ranged longbow attack, and burst 1 ranged longbow attack against multiple enemies
Eater of Knowledge Mindstrike - Lvl 8 Elite Controller - basic scimitar attack, dazing recharging burst attack, An At will standard action that lets every ally within 10 make a basic attack, a melee attack that only lets targets use basic attacks.

- The biggest problem with this encounter is that the Mindstrike can keep giving it's allies extra attacks, so it's almost as if the number of enemies in the room doubles. Also, getting limited to only basic attacks sucks



The Ice Chambers (EL 8):
4 Chillborn zombies - lvl 6 soldier - Basic Slam attack that does damage, immobilizes, and does ongoing cold damage, ability that gives extra damage against immobilized enemies, Aura 2 that does 5 cold damage, auras overlap.
1 Mezzodemon - lvl 11 soldier - Trident Attack with Reach that damages, restrains, and does ongoing damage; recharging poison breath blast attack that does damage and ongoing poison damage
Frigid Air - Lvl 3 Hazard - Does minor damage and slows

- The biggest problem is how well the monsters synergise with each other. Overlapping auras, plus everything having abilities that restrains or immobilizes (which give extra damage to the zombie attacks) or slows them makes this encounter hellish. It's just very easy for a character to get hit once, and more or less be doomed for the rest of the encounter because they can't get away and die (quickly) just by being in the room.



Maze of Lost Souls (EL10)
2 Skeletal Tomb Guardians - lvl 10 brute - Standard attack is 2 scimitar attacks, have at will ability that lets them make 2 of those (so 4 attacks total).
Wailing Ghost (Banshee) - lvl 12 controller - normal melee attack, ranged attack that does moderate damage and a penalty to defenses, recharging burst 5 ability that damages, pushes, and immobilizes enemies. phasing.
Wailing Walls - Deal 4 damage automatically when you start your turn next to them.

- This encounter is really only tough because of the environment. The walls form a maze (hallways only 1 square wide), so maneuvering is very difficult. The burst attack from the banshees can ignore the walls for line of effect Basically, thanks to their phasing ability the ghosts can go wherever they like, and can attack the party without being seen, and just by being in the area, the party is damaged.



The Shadow Stone (EL10):
4 Dark Stalkers - lvl 10 lurkers - basic scimitar attack, basic ranged attack, can create a area burst 4 fog of darkness and sustain it with a minor action, have darkvision, do an extra 2d6 sneak attack, invisibility move action, extra ac vs opportunity attacks, blind enemies in a burst 1 when killed.
Karavakos’s Shadow - Lvl 11 Controller - ranged attack that damages and blinds; melee attack that damages and blinds; phasing move ability; Zone that attacks enemies, gives concealment, and sustained with a minor; Burst attack that damages, and teleports enemies away; sneak attack

- The biggest problem with this is that the party is fighting in a relatively small area (there are a few environmental hazards, but nothing horrible), that will be covered in darkness the 1st round. On the off chance the party can get rid of the creature causing the darkness, there are 3 creatures who can do the same thing. Once they're out of darkness, you have a creature who has basic attacks that can blind the party. So basically, the party is fighting in the dark against creatures who can see them, who get combat advantage, and who get sneak attack. Every. Single. Round.




I agree with Jack_Banzai that this is a module written more for DMs. The encounters are interesting and fun to run, they're simply too brutal for the recommended difficulty level. The designers have done too good a job putting monsters with other monsters that complement them, and in favorable environments.