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View Full Version : Has anyone noticed this line in Spell Storing rings?



deuxhero
2009-09-29, 06:01 PM
"A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three". This includes personal spells.

Cast a personal spell into it and give it to the fighter, they have access to a personal spell without casting or UMD and I think that personal spells can't be put in potions that don't require casting (purposefully).


How can you abuse this?

Myou
2009-09-29, 06:03 PM
Tenser's Transformation?

I wouldn't allow it, but it is a known trick.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-29, 06:07 PM
Tenser's is not a spell of third level or lower.

deuxhero
2009-09-29, 06:08 PM
Greater version has up to 10th level (epic...)

Quietus
2009-09-29, 06:09 PM
Isn't there a metamagic that lowers a spell's effective level? I think Sanctum Spell had something like that, but I doubt it worked exactly in that fashion..

Kalirren
2009-09-29, 06:17 PM
I like the idea of spellstoring rings used en masse as buffing tools. Say you have a party of 5. 5 low-level buffs (I dunno, call them haste, mass aid, good hope, magic circle, prayer) go on in the same round, instead of 5 rounds, and -then- you charge in.

Glimbur
2009-09-29, 07:47 PM
True Strike? Wraith Strike?

Epinephrine
2009-09-29, 08:33 PM
Shield Other?

KellKheraptis
2009-09-29, 08:36 PM
Spend 1000 gp at Boccob's Reading Room (100 gp/spell level) and load a mythal in one >.> Oh yeah, and it's instantaneous. So you only ever need to use it once :D

Rixx
2009-09-29, 08:37 PM
Floating Disk?

...


....

what? D:

Godskook
2009-09-29, 08:37 PM
I like the idea of spellstoring rings used en masse as buffing tools. Say you have a party of 5. 5 low-level buffs (I dunno, call them haste, mass aid, good hope, magic circle, prayer) go on in the same round, instead of 5 rounds, and -then- you charge in.

So that's what the planeteers where using!

DragoonWraith
2009-09-29, 09:16 PM
I like the idea of spellstoring rings used en masse as buffing tools. Say you have a party of 5. 5 low-level buffs (I dunno, call them haste, mass aid, good hope, magic circle, prayer) go on in the same round, instead of 5 rounds, and -then- you charge in.
Heh, it's like the entire War Weaver PrC for the low-low price of 250,000 gp! >.>


Spend 1000 gp at Boccob's Reading Room (100 gp/spell level) and load a mythal in one >.> Oh yeah, and it's instantaneous. So you only ever need to use it once :D
What's "Mythal"? Second time in two days I've seen reference to it, but I don't know it.

KillianHawkeye
2009-09-29, 09:29 PM
What's "Mythal"? Second time in two days I've seen reference to it, but I don't know it.

Something from Forgotten Realms, I think. I dunno, I don't really pay attention to setting specific stuff.

Arundel
2009-09-29, 09:48 PM
What's "Mythal"? Second time in two days I've seen reference to it, but I don't know it.

An ancient human race in the forgotten realms used them to cleave off the tops of mountains and use them to make cities fly. A wizard of said race killed the god of magic with a spell.

They're that kind of powerful.

Lamech
2009-09-29, 09:52 PM
Hey is it just me or did they forget to say a 0th level spell takes up half a slot. Abusive idea coming on... Hey we can lower a spells actual level too can't we with sanctum spell. Never run out of magic missles again.

(I don't think all the spells happen at the same time though. Otherwise... rays of frost.)

arguskos
2009-09-29, 10:13 PM
*sigh* A mythal is NOT what the Netherese used to cut off mountaintops and make them fly. That is a device called a mythallar, named in honor of the more ancient mythal.

A mythal is a unique type of epic spell (no really, it has it's own epic seed) that is characterized by:
-covering a city
-being permanent
-having numerous lesser effects tied to it
-typically, requires attunement to it so as to ignore it's baneful effects, though this is not universal

Mythals are from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and are the foremost acknowledgements of Elven High Magic.

Tarvus
2009-09-29, 10:16 PM
An ancient human race in the forgotten realms used them to cleave off the tops of mountains and use them to make cities fly. A wizard of said race killed the god of magic with a spell.

They're that kind of powerful.

Um, isn't that a Mythallar? (which is a crystal orb that allows the direct use of raw magic to create quasi-magical effects, such as the powering of flying cities)

A mythal is, to quote the wiki, "a powerful epic level magical effect, created . . . to protect and ward a large area with numerous powerful enchantments. They work by creating an area wherein the normal rules of magic no longer apply"

EDIT: Ninja'd - by a better explanation none-the-less :smallfrown:

Arundel
2009-09-29, 10:18 PM
*sigh* A mythal is NOT what the Netherese used to cut off mountaintops and make them fly. That is a device called a mythallar, named in honor of the more ancient mythal.

A mythal is a unique type of epic spell (no really, it has it's own epic seed) that is characterized by:
-covering a city
-being permanent
-having numerous lesser effects tied to it
-typically, requires attunement to it so as to ignore it's baneful effects, though this is not universal

Mythals are from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and are the foremost acknowledgements of Elven High Magic.


Um, isn't that a Mythallar? (which is a crystal orb that allows the direct use of raw magic to create quasi-magical effects, such as the powering of flying cities)

A mythal is, to quote the wiki, "a powerful epic level magical effect, created . . . to protect and ward a large area with numerous powerful enchantments. They work by creating an area wherein the normal rules of magic no longer apply"

EDIT: Ninja'd

You know, Forgotten Realms epic magic make so much more sense now. Thanks.

Darrin
2009-09-29, 10:28 PM
"A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three". This includes personal spells.

Cast a personal spell into it and give it to the fighter, they have access to a personal spell without casting or UMD and I think that personal spells can't be put in potions that don't require casting (purposefully).

How can you abuse this?

Glyph Seals (MIC p. 161) are easier to abuse. Heckuva lot cheaper, too. Key the seal to a pocket/pouch/bandoleer where you store ammunition or spell components. Opening a pocket to draw ammunition or a spell component is a free action, so triggering the seal is a free action. Get lots of pockets, put a glyph seal on each one.

Glyph Seals are limited to 2nd level and lower spells, but Greater Glyph Seals can store any 5th level spell or higher (there's an odd gap of 3rd and 4th level spells). There's some wonkiness to contend with, however... Glyph of Warding specifies only "harmful" spells can be cast into a spell glyph (but doesn't define harmful... cure spells "harm" undead, right?). However, the Glyph Seal description specifies "any arcane or divine spell" can be cast into it, which would appear to supercede the Glyph of Warding text. Any spell would also include personal range, so you could load yourself up with self-buffs.

arguskos
2009-09-29, 10:36 PM
You know, Forgotten Realms epic magic make so much more sense now. Thanks.
Sure. It's fascinating stuff really, and I like sharing it.

As for the Spell Storing rings, well, it seems like that was probably an intended use, so that the casters can share the awesome with the melees. On a side note, if someone activates a Spell Storing ring that has a Fireball in it, does the spell center on them? Same with Haste?

Sir Giacomo
2009-09-30, 12:25 AM
A classic use is to have a monk with the ring buff with divine power and shield.
Full BAB without the need to houserule, and a rare opportunity for the monk to get as shield bonus. Both uses core even.

- Giacomo

PhoenixRivers
2009-09-30, 12:49 AM
A classic use is to have a monk with the ring buff with divine power and shield.
Full BAB without the need to houserule, and a rare opportunity for the monk to get as shield bonus. Both uses core even.

- Giacomo

I would dispute that this is "classic".

"Classic" would be the iconic things.

Wildshaped druids nomnomnoming everything.
CoDzillas using divine power, rather than monks expecting a cleric 4th slot and a Wizard 1.
Mind Flayers Illithids taking that mind, and flayin' it.

Those are classic.

Monk with that? Would qualify more as "eccentric" use of the power. That's not necessarily bad. But it's not commonplace, or classic.

imperialspectre
2009-09-30, 01:06 AM
Well, it would certainly be a classic in these parts, if only it were possible to buy a partially-charged spell storing ring. :smalltongue:

Doc Roc
2009-09-30, 01:08 AM
This is a known exploit. I used it to make AfroAkuma very unhappy when my barbarian inexplicably had persisted spells on him, and was carrying a contingency effect as well. Don't think small! Don't bother with shield and similar trivialities! Go big! Body of War Big! :)

Neek
2009-09-30, 01:49 AM
[...] Glyph of Warding specifies only "harmful" spells can be cast into a spell glyph (but doesn't define harmful... cure spells "harm" undead, right?). However, the Glyph Seal description specifies "any arcane or divine spell" can be cast into it, which would appear to supercede the Glyph of Warding text. Any spell would also include personal range, so you could load yourself up with self-buffs.

That is quite a wonky ordeal, but it might not fly over too well. Somehow, some strain of logic in my head states that if the spell isn't harmful to the target, it wouldn't be triggered. So only an undead would trigger a Cure spells, while a living creature couldn't. You could technically resist and choose to autofail, but the effects aren't harmful.

Argh! My brain hurts.

Doc Roc
2009-09-30, 02:34 AM
Glyph seals work, unfortunately. It specifically says you can load in any spell. I was the one who found them over on 339 a while ago.

ericgrau
2009-09-30, 03:59 AM
A classic use is to have a monk with the ring buff with divine power and shield.
Full BAB without the need to houserule, and a rare opportunity for the monk to get as shield bonus. Both uses core even.

- Giacomo

Tenser's transformation seems better.

Kaiyanwang
2009-09-30, 04:11 AM
Sure. It's fascinating stuff really, and I like sharing it.


Indeed. For those interested, the epic seed "Seed: Mythal" is described in Lost Empires of Faerun (along with the Seed: Shadow, my dear gnomes..).

The book is filled of artifact (Netherscrolls) and with a new kind of item, the Scepter (something between a staff and a wand).

More, there are few not overpored but strange, intersting spell (like the 9 level one that allows you to "play" with am enemy caster countering him.

taltamir
2009-09-30, 05:35 AM
can it release all spells at once? at an enemy target?
3 magic missiles at once...
or 10 at once for greater ring version...

Isn't a demilich immune to, well, practically everything BUT magic missile?

Myrmex
2009-09-30, 06:10 AM
can it release all spells at once?

Nope. Minimum time to get a spell out is one standard action.


Isn't a demilich immune to, well, practically everything BUT magic missile?

"Magic Immunity (Ex)

Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows. A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally. "

They also get Epic Magic.

Killer Angel
2009-09-30, 06:14 AM
Alter self.
Great AC booster for meleers and always useful for swimming, etc.

ken-do-nim
2009-09-30, 06:20 AM
Tenser's transformation seems better.

Last I checked, Tenser's Transformation is a 6th level spell, so it would only fit in the 10 spell slot ring, which is MUCHO expensive. Even the 5 spell slot ring is a pricey proposition. I definitely thought about getting a ring of spell storing for my monk, but it was never worth the price compared to other things.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that if you plan on storing divine power in the ring each day, the cleric in the group must agree to putting that spell in on a daily basis. As I recall, my group's cleric didn't agree to setting aside a 4th level spell for my monk each day, not after the Spell Compendium came out.

Chrono22
2009-09-30, 07:24 AM
Another handy use for these rings- they reduce the costs of learning new spells. Instead of purchasing scrolls and transcribing them, you can pay half of that by purchasing a spell as a service. The person you are purchasing from casts into the ring- and afterward you can scribe the spell into your spell book from memory.

Bayar
2009-09-30, 07:41 AM
It would be awesome if artificiers could metamagic item infuse these rings.

ken-do-nim
2009-09-30, 09:27 AM
I love how you cheat and call it a commonly used tactic. Ninja'ed by Tenser's Joke Spell.

Cheat? It's legal for the 50,000 gp version. The other MAJOR problem with these rings is that all spells are cast at the lowest possible caster level. Which means that the monk buffed with divine power and shield is quite vulnerable to dispel magic.

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-30, 09:47 AM
Cheat? It's legal for the 50,000 gp version. The other MAJOR problem with these rings is that all spells are cast at the lowest possible caster level. Which means that the monk buffed with divine power and shield is quite vulnerable to dispel magic.
I forgot there were three versions of it.


I apologize Giacomo. I'll delete that post.

Akal Saris
2009-09-30, 09:48 AM
Of course, using it still requires a standard action per spell, so the monk will have to stand around for 2 rounds buffing anyways.

It's handy, but quite pricey for the cost.

Doc Roc
2009-09-30, 09:58 AM
Cheat? It's legal for the 50,000 gp version. The other MAJOR problem with these rings is that all spells are cast at the lowest possible caster level. Which means that the monk buffed with divine power and shield is quite vulnerable to dispel magic.

This is not the case. They are cast as per the original caster in all respects. Now, in theory, if the monk wasn't horse-pucky then the argument gets more reasonable. After all, if you didn't need divine power every fight.... Well I'd be willing to set aside a 4th level spell slot now and then for an unarmed swordsage.


Suffice to say though, that I feel all of this is thinking pretty small.

Sir Giacomo
2009-09-30, 02:20 PM
This is not the case. They are cast as per the original caster in all respects. Now, in theory, if the monk wasn't horse-pucky then the argument gets more reasonable. After all, if you didn't need divine power every fight.... Well I'd be willing to set aside a 4th level spell slot now and then for an unarmed swordsage.


Suffice to say though, that I feel all of this is thinking pretty small.

Well, the monk has the advantage of being a class that does not need houseruling to even work (in contrast to the one-sentence unarmed swordsage suggestion of the non-core ToB that not all DMs may allow).:smallwink:
I'd also say that by level 16 (when the ring of spell storing is perfectly affordable) a nice +8 to hit, +3 to damage, +7 hp and +1 attack are quite OK.

But certainly I guess there are better and more powerful uses for a ring of spell storing, in particular the higher the spell level.

- Giacomo

PS @ Sinfire Titan: apology accepted

ken-do-nim
2009-09-30, 02:37 PM
This is not the case. They are cast as per the original caster in all respects.



Spell Storing, Minor
A minor ring of spell storing contains up to three levels of spells that the wearer can cast. Each spell has a caster level equal to the minimum level needed to cast that spell. ...


I don't like the rule either, but that's the way it is. If I'm DM, I rule that this sentence refers to spells contained in a newly found ring.

Kalirren
2009-09-30, 03:13 PM
Heh, it's like the entire War Weaver PrC for the low-low price of 250,000 gp! >.>

You don't have to get the 5th-level ones for all the buffs I mentioned, so the cost for that version is only 18kgp per non-caster, which is a perfectly affordable price.

The rings in general follow a pretty obvious price progression (level squared * 2000 gp) anyway, so you could have a 1-spell-level ring containing enlarge person, or shield, or some such for a mere 2k. While I waffle on the 18k things, I'd say the 2k's worth it...8k might even be worth it for something like Detect Thoughts which comes up suddenly and where you don't want people knowing you cast it...

Yahzi
2009-09-30, 09:13 PM
Only clerics can make Rings of Spell Storing? How odd... it seems like more of a Wizard-type item.

taltamir
2009-09-30, 09:17 PM
Last I checked, Tenser's Transformation is a 6th level spell, so it would only fit in the 10 spell slot ring, which is MUCHO expensive. Even the 5 spell slot ring is a pricey proposition. I definitely thought about getting a ring of spell storing for my monk, but it was never worth the price compared to other things.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that if you plan on storing divine power in the ring each day, the cleric in the group must agree to putting that spell in on a daily basis. As I recall, my group's cleric didn't agree to setting aside a 4th level spell for my monk each day, not after the Spell Compendium came out.

if you have an access to a cleric who can cast a spell for you into a ring every day, why cast it on the ring when he can cast it directly on you? i can the notion of having him cast something else... but then the tank is wasting rounds self buffing instead of getting buffed...

Something like that should be for an emergency.

tyckspoon
2009-09-30, 09:52 PM
if you have an access to a cleric who can cast a spell for you into a ring every day, why cast it on the ring when he can cast it directly on you? i can the notion of having him cast something else... but then the tank is wasting rounds self buffing instead of getting buffed...

Something like that should be for an emergency.

Because that particular buff is Personal, as are a number of other really excellent spells, like the Bite of the WereThingy line. If you want to use them as a non-caster you have to find some way of changing that, and making it so that 'you' are the caster via the Ring is the easiest way, especially for classes that don't have ready access to good UMD checks (alternately, you can start screwing with the rules until you qualify as an Animal Companion or Familiar and use Share Spells. I don't know if this is actually possible, but it would be hilarious if it is.)

Doc Roc
2009-09-30, 10:23 PM
Because that particular buff is Personal, as are a number of other really excellent spells, like the Bite of the WereThingy line. If you want to use them as a non-caster you have to find some way of changing that, and making it so that 'you' are the caster via the Ring is the easiest way, especially for classes that don't have ready access to good UMD checks (alternately, you can start screwing with the rules until you qualify as an Animal Companion or Familiar and use Share Spells. I don't know if this is actually possible, but it would be hilarious if it is.)

I... don't want to talk about it.

taltamir
2009-09-30, 10:25 PM
Because that particular buff is Personal, as are a number of other really excellent spells, like the Bite of the WereThingy line. If you want to use them as a non-caster you have to find some way of changing that, and making it so that 'you' are the caster via the Ring is the easiest way, especially for classes that don't have ready access to good UMD checks (alternately, you can start screwing with the rules until you qualify as an Animal Companion or Familiar and use Share Spells. I don't know if this is actually possible, but it would be hilarious if it is.)

improved familiar... and a variety of other familiar feats... allow you to take ANYTHING as familiars... including creatures who are "naturally sorcerors"... sentient, magical beasts, celestials, etc...

I mean... the most core of the core improved familiar spell lets you take an imp... a humanoid demon who is sentient before the bond and has its own magic.
So there is really no reason why you cannot become someone's familiar.

Doc Roc
2009-09-30, 10:30 PM
Animal companion is easier. It involves entirely failing Baleful Polymorph, getting picked as a companion, and then getting break enchantment.

Do not wish to further discuss.


That's always struck me with a lot of magic items actually. Especially when a cleric can change her spells/day every night while wizards need to buy their spells for a lot of the ones used in items that you don't normally cast.

And don't get me started on golems and other constructs - half of them require Animate Objects, which is a cleric-only spell! Bah!

There's... no... language that implies or suggests this. Wizards can use them too.

Akal Saris
2009-09-30, 10:30 PM
Only clerics can make Rings of Spell Storing? How odd... it seems like more of a Wizard-type item.

That's always struck me with a lot of magic items actually. Especially when a cleric can change her spells/day every night while wizards need to buy their spells for a lot of the ones used in items that you don't normally cast.

And don't get me started on golems and other constructs - half of them require Animate Objects, which is a cleric-only spell! Bah!

Darrin
2009-09-30, 10:38 PM
Glyph seals work, unfortunately. It specifically says you can load in any spell. I was the one who found them over on 339 a while ago.

Forgive me for being terribly dense... but I keep seeing references to 339, and I have no idea what it is. Is that the Brilliant Gameologists forum?

Also... any links to Glyph Seal discussions? I knew they were nifty bargains, but I stumbled onto the self-buffing/free activation thing only recently, and I'm curious what's been determined via RAW discussions about what they can or can't do.

Jothki
2009-09-30, 10:55 PM
Can those rings hold infinite cantrips?

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-01, 05:30 AM
Well, the monk has the advantage of being a class that does not need houseruling to even work (in contrast to the one-sentence unarmed swordsage suggestion of the non-core ToB that not all DMs may allow).:smallwink:There's some disagreement here, among many playgrounders. This largely has to do with what a level a competency a class must have to qualify as "working".


I'd also say that by level 16 (when the ring of spell storing is perfectly affordable) a nice +8 to hit, +3 to damage, +7 hp and +1 attack are quite OK.
In order to receive those bonuses, the level 16 character would need to have no str boosting items. With a belt of Str +6, the spell only provides: +4 to hit, +7 hp, +1 attack. Frankly, at that juncture, Haste is a better team option, as it will boost the entire party with +1 to hit, +1 AC, +30 to movement, +1 attack. Better yet, it fits in the cheaper ring, and, since the person giving you the spell will receive a benefit as well, it's quite likely to be a regular bit of caster charity.


But certainly I guess there are better and more powerful uses for a ring of spell storing, in particular the higher the spell level.

I agree, though I think that low level spells can be perfectly useful. Any spell that can hit the whole party is a great buff to put in there, as it synergizes. Everyone getting +1 or +2 to hit is typically much better than one person getting +4. The wizard's touch spells will be more accurate. The fighter/rogue's attacks will be as well.

The unfortunate down side is that the monk won't get full benefit from this, as the bonus to movement granted by haste stacks with a monk's. In this instance, the spell would be more effective on a fighter/barbarian/paladin/ranger.

Can those rings hold infinite cantrips?
Most cantrips are considered level "1/2" for such things.

Bayar
2009-10-01, 05:42 AM
Only clerics can make Rings of Spell Storing? How odd... it seems like more of a Wizard-type item.

I bet that a lot of clerics take Forge Ring as their feat at level 12. Alternatively, you can be the wizard with the cleric buddy that supplies him with the necessary spells during the forging/crafting process.

Failing that, play an artificier and just handwave those restrictions with liberal amounts of UMD checks.



Forgive me for being terribly dense... but I keep seeing references to 339, and I have no idea what it is. Is that the Brilliant Gameologists forum?


Actually, that is the WotC CharOp subforum. Because the page adress ended in 339, it was dubbed 339.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-01, 09:19 AM
Forgive me for being terribly dense... but I keep seeing references to 339, and I have no idea what it is. Is that the Brilliant Gameologists forum?

As Bayar said, it's CO boards on Gleemax (prior to the fail of the recent board change). BG is BG.