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Grynning
2009-09-30, 12:36 AM
I've seen like a dozen Lightning Warrior gags in the last couple weeks. What is this class and where is it from? I can't recall it from anywhere. And what, exactly, is the joke?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-30, 12:37 AM
It's a fairly weak class. It doesn't get a familiar or anything.

Thurbane
2009-09-30, 12:41 AM
It's a running joke of an extremely (and deliberately) OP homebrew class at the WotC forums - don't have a link at the moment.

Grynning
2009-09-30, 12:44 AM
I googled it and the only link I found to the thread seemed dead. Useful advice for anyone else who googles it - use advanced search and exclude the word "Raidy," otherwise you will get a bunch of crap relating to some Hentai game. Or don't, if that's your thing...

daggaz
2009-09-30, 12:46 AM
The funniest part about it were all the mentally deficient people who actually took it seriously and started flaming the OP, often with highly detailed discussions of the rules and balance set up to prove their points.

It was such an obvious joke, and really well pulled off. No familiar! Man! Honestly, I dont know how dragons survive as long as they do, being mere sorcerers and all, with such wimpy little HD on top of it all..

Lightning warrior was basically a full casting wizard with like every good ability from every class dumped in.

Off the top of my head, it had d20 hit die, all good saves progressions, ability to use all weapons and armors (I wanna say with no ASF either), TWF for free and I think some other ranger abilities, wizards spell list but spontaneous casting like a sorcerer and double the sorcerers normal spells per day, I think treated metamagic as a wizard, somehow ended up being able to cast divine spells full progression as well I believe, and hmm... was there anything else?

Oh yeah, no familiar. That was the main justification for its power, toying with a funny logical argument based on how wizards are teh pwn.

Keld Denar
2009-09-30, 12:47 AM
In the google cache'ed files, I found:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:adwJV0sJxbUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-868384+D%26D+Lightning+Warrior+PEACH&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1


Class Skills
The Lightning Warrior’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level
(6 + Int modifier) Χ4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
6 + Int modifier.


Lightning Warrior
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special

1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat, Two-Weapon Mastery
2nd +2 +3 +3 +3
3rd +3 +3 +3 +3
4th +4 +4 +4 +4
5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Bonus feat
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Improved Two-Weapon Mastery
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +6
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 Greater Two-Weapon Mastery
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Bonus feat
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +10 Perfect Two-Weapon Mastery
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Bonus feat



Spells Per Day
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 5 3 — — — — — — — —
2nd 6 4 — — — — — — — —
3rd 6 4 3 — — — — — — —
4th 6 5 4 — — — — — — —
5th 6 5 4 3 — — — — — —
6th 6 5 5 4 — — — — — —
7th 6 6 5 4 3 — — — — —
8th 6 6 5 5 4 — — — — —
9th 6 6 6 5 4 3 — — — —
10th 6 6 6 5 5 4 — — — —
11th 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 — — —
12th 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 — — —
13th 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 — —
14th 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 — —
15th 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 —
16th 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 —
17th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3
18th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4
19th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5
20th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Lightning Warrior.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Lightning Warriors are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor.

A Lightning Warrior can cast spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Lightning Warrior wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A Lightning Warrior still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

In addition, the Lightning Warrior may perform a spell with a somatic and/or material component even while holding a weapon in each hand. Casting a spell in this way still provokes an attack of opportunity. The Lightning Warrior can deliver a touch spell through a weapon attack (either a melee touch attack or a normal melee attack).

Spells
A lightning warrior casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A lightning warrior must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the lightning warrior must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a lightning warrior’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the lightning warrior’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a lightning warrior can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Lightning warrior. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a lightning warrior may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying. While studying, the lightning warrior decides which spells to prepare.

A lightning warrior begins play with all 0-level lightning warrior spells plus six 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Lightning warrior has, he receives two additional 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new lightning warrior level, he gains four new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast.

Unlike the wizard, the Lightning Warrior does not need to use a spellbook, he simply memorizes his spells. The Lightning Warrior can learn spells from scrolls in the same manner wizards do, but do not need to spend money copying the scroll, as he simply looks at it and memorizes it.


Bonus Feats
At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a Lightning Warrior gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, he can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or a fighter feat. The lightning warrior must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The lightning warrior is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or fighter feats when choosing these feats.

Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense feats as bonus feats at 1st level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for them.

Improved Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Defense (Complete Warrior) feats as bonus feats 6th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for them.

Greater Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Defense (Complete Warrior) feats as bonus feats at 11th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for it.

Perfect Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feat (complete warrior) as a bonus feat at 16th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for it.


At first glance, the lightning warrior looks like a weaker version of the wizard, due to the fact that it lacks a familiar and can’t specialize in a school like most wizards can. However, the special abilities and increased stats of the class help it catch up to the wizard somewhat, though it will probably continue to lag behind it. Trained in the arts of war, the Lightning Warrior has a bit more hp than a normal wizard, and can fight with two swords in order to offset his loss of his familiar. He gets a couple more spells to offset his lack of ability to specialize in a school of magic.

This is a class which truly sacrifices power for flavor.

olentu
2009-09-30, 12:49 AM
It's a fairly weak class. It doesn't get a familiar or anything.

Don't forget the fact that it can't specialize making it even weaker.

SparkMandriller
2009-09-30, 01:16 AM
OH GOD TO MUCH TO MUCH STUPEDNES


That thread was pretty cool, yeah.

sonofzeal
2009-09-30, 01:19 AM
OH GOD TO MUCH TO MUCH STUPEDNES


That thread was pretty cool, yeah.
The thread was frigging hilarious!

Please tell me it's been saved for posterity, flames and all....

Paulus
2009-09-30, 01:23 AM
In the google cache'ed files, I found:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:adwJV0sJxbUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-868384+D%26D+Lightning+Warrior+PEACH&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1


Class Skills
The Lightning Warrior’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level
(6 + Int modifier) Χ4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
6 + Int modifier.


Lightning Warrior
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special

1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat, Two-Weapon Mastery
2nd +2 +3 +3 +3
3rd +3 +3 +3 +3
4th +4 +4 +4 +4
5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Bonus feat
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Improved Two-Weapon Mastery
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +6
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 Greater Two-Weapon Mastery
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Bonus feat
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +10 Perfect Two-Weapon Mastery
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Bonus feat



Spells Per Day
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 5 3 — — — — — — — —
2nd 6 4 — — — — — — — —
3rd 6 4 3 — — — — — — —
4th 6 5 4 — — — — — — —
5th 6 5 4 3 — — — — — —
6th 6 5 5 4 — — — — — —
7th 6 6 5 4 3 — — — — —
8th 6 6 5 5 4 — — — — —
9th 6 6 6 5 4 3 — — — —
10th 6 6 6 5 5 4 — — — —
11th 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 — — —
12th 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 — — —
13th 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 — —
14th 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 — —
15th 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 —
16th 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 —
17th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3
18th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4
19th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5
20th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Lightning Warrior.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Lightning Warriors are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor.

A Lightning Warrior can cast spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Lightning Warrior wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A Lightning Warrior still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

In addition, the Lightning Warrior may perform a spell with a somatic and/or material component even while holding a weapon in each hand. Casting a spell in this way still provokes an attack of opportunity. The Lightning Warrior can deliver a touch spell through a weapon attack (either a melee touch attack or a normal melee attack).

Spells
A lightning warrior casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A lightning warrior must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the lightning warrior must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a lightning warrior’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the lightning warrior’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a lightning warrior can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Lightning warrior. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a lightning warrior may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying. While studying, the lightning warrior decides which spells to prepare.

A lightning warrior begins play with all 0-level lightning warrior spells plus six 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Lightning warrior has, he receives two additional 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new lightning warrior level, he gains four new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast.

Unlike the wizard, the Lightning Warrior does not need to use a spellbook, he simply memorizes his spells. The Lightning Warrior can learn spells from scrolls in the same manner wizards do, but do not need to spend money copying the scroll, as he simply looks at it and memorizes it.


Bonus Feats
At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a Lightning Warrior gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, he can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or a fighter feat. The lightning warrior must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The lightning warrior is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or fighter feats when choosing these feats.

Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense feats as bonus feats at 1st level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for them.

Improved Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Defense (Complete Warrior) feats as bonus feats 6th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for them.

Greater Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Defense (Complete Warrior) feats as bonus feats at 11th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for it.

Perfect Two-Weapon Mastery
A Lightning Warrior receives the Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feat (complete warrior) as a bonus feat at 16th level, even if he doesn’t meet the prerequisites for it.


At first glance, the lightning warrior looks like a weaker version of the wizard, due to the fact that it lacks a familiar and can’t specialize in a school like most wizards can. However, the special abilities and increased stats of the class help it catch up to the wizard somewhat, though it will probably continue to lag behind it. Trained in the arts of war, the Lightning Warrior has a bit more hp than a normal wizard, and can fight with two swords in order to offset his loss of his familiar. He gets a couple more spells to offset his lack of ability to specialize in a school of magic.

This is a class which truly sacrifices power for flavor.




Don't forget the fact that it can't specialize making it even weaker.

You know I was considering it, it looked exactly like the kind of class i've been dreaming of. Until you said he looses specialization. Right now I'm having a hard time suppressing my outrage at that!! It's like the Green Star Adapet all over again. No specialization? you might as well take away the wizard's ability to use divination spells to prepare for every battle and the assumption that every encounter the wizard has to face he can face with full spells readied and with hours and hours of before time preparation as well as a goodnight's sleep, and his spell book readily at hand, and the pleasure to address the problem whenever he felt like it!

I mean what are we trying to do here people? Flavor?! in sacrifice of exactly what it is that makes a wizard God and Batman!? I hope you are happy, I've already reported your post because it is clearly solely meant to incite anger. I just can't even look at you right now. Can I get a mod to lock this? Pelase??

olentu
2009-09-30, 01:28 AM
and his spell book readily at hand

Looks like you are going to be even more disappointed.



Unlike the wizard, the Lightning Warrior does not need to use a spellbook, he simply memorizes his spells.

Paulus
2009-09-30, 01:35 AM
Looks like you are going to be even more disappointed.

PPP PP PP!! Oh well that alright... at least they didn't nerf his ability to have to research and study spells for years to become a Wizard. After all, even these fools know they can't sacrifice THAT kind of power. Especially not for flavor.

olentu
2009-09-30, 01:48 AM
PPP PP PP!! Oh well that alright... at least they didn't nerf his ability to have to research and study spells for years to become a Wizard. After all, even these fools know they can't sacrifice THAT kind of power. Especially not for flavor.

Could you elaborate a bit?

I think I may have to rain on your parade a bit more with this but I can not be sure.



The Lightning Warrior can learn spells from scrolls in the same manner wizards do, but do not need to spend money copying the scroll, as he simply looks at it and memorizes it.

Paulus
2009-09-30, 01:52 AM
Could you elaborate a bit?

I think I may have to rain on your parade a bit more with this but I can not be sure.

NO, no, no, that's not what I meant at all. See here from the PHB:
"These simple acts make magic seem easy, but they only hint at the time the wizard must spend poring over her spellbook preparing each spell for casting, and the years before that spent in apprenticeship to learn the arts of magic. Wizards depend on intensive study to create their magic. They examine musty old tomes, debate magical theory with their peers, and practice minor magics whenever they can. For a wizard, magic is
not a talent but a difficult, rewarding art."

See? Wizards have the unique ability to study and research for years before they can cast a single spell, which is what makes them so powerful. It is obviously one their most powerful features, second only to Specialization and third only to their familiar. There is NO WAY anyone would be STUPED enough to removed this feature for mere 'flavor'.

Elfin
2009-09-30, 01:56 AM
Hilarious thread. :smalltongue:

olentu
2009-09-30, 01:59 AM
NO, no, no, that's not what I meant at all. See here from the PHB:
"These simple acts make magic seem easy, but they only hint at the time the wizard must spend poring over her spellbook preparing each spell for casting, and the years before that spent in apprenticeship to learn the arts of magic. Wizards depend on intensive study to create their magic. They examine musty old tomes, debate magical theory with their peers, and practice minor magics whenever they can. For a wizard, magic is
not a talent but a difficult, rewarding art."

See? Wizards have the unique ability to study and research for years before they can cast a single spell, which is what makes them so powerful. It is obviously one their most powerful features, second only to Specialization and third only to their familiar. There is NO WAY anyone would be STUPED enough to removed this feature for mere 'flavor'.

I can see how one might miss it since the spoiler was missing the class description but unfortunately the class description only has this.



The Lightning Warrior is a powerful fighter and an excellent spellcaster. Trained in the arts of war, he wields his two blades with perfect form and fires off spell after spell at his foes. He is named the Lightning Warrior for he can slay his enemies faster than lightning itself!

Paulus
2009-09-30, 02:08 AM
I can see how one might miss it since the spoiler was missing the class description but unfortunately the class description only has this.

. . .

You've been reported. This farce will continue no longer! NO LONGER I SAY!
This can't possibly exist, I've never seen such an underpowered class. No familiar, no specialization, no need to research and study their spells for years before they can ever cast them?! Where is the caster power? This removes ALL of the power from the Batman and GOD types, I could see it as MAYBE a gestalt to add to a REAL wizard, Maybe THEN it could be good enough for SOMETHING, but this sacrifices far too much for flavor. FAR TOO MUCH. I'll thank you to remove this from the thread entirely. and Keep it from my sight, we don't need this kind of nonsense cluttering up our otherwise Wizard worshiping optimization discussions.

I have to go now, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little

olentu
2009-09-30, 02:17 AM
. . .

You've been reported. This farce will continue no longer! NO LONGER I SAY!
This can't possibly exist, I've never seen such an underpowered class. No familiar, no specialization, no need to research and study their spells for years before they can ever cast them?! Where is the caster power? This removes ALL of the power from the Batman and GOD types, I could see it as MAYBE a gestalt to add to a REAL wizard, Maybe THEN it could be good enough for SOMETHING, but this sacrifices far too much for flavor. FAR TOO MUCH. I'll thank you to remove this from the thread entirely. and Keep it from my sight, we don't need this kind of nonsense cluttering up our otherwise Wizard worshiping optimization discussions.

I have to go now, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little

I am sorry that you disliked the class so much but some people do choose classes based on their flavor even though they will have to deal with being underpowered. In any case it was nice talking to you and I am glad that I could bring to your attention some things about the underpowered nature of the class as I would not want you to choose the class based on flavor and then later discover that you are underpowered.

Mongoose87
2009-09-30, 02:44 AM
I am sorry that you disliked the class so much but some people do choose classes based on their flavor even though they will have to deal with being underpowered. In any case it was nice talking to you and I am glad that I could bring to your attention some things about the underpowered nature of the class as I would not want you to choose the class based on flavor and then later discover that you are underpowered.

If it wasn't for those people, what would the Planar Shepherd be for?

Superglucose
2009-10-10, 04:13 PM
It's a fairly weak class. It doesn't get a familiar or anything.
Also twf? So supbar without bonus damage, and ALSO it doesn't get favored weapons or animal companions! Plus can't it only wear light armor?

SparkMandriller
2009-10-10, 04:20 PM
Bumping a thread just to tell a joke that everyone's already heard? Not so cool.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-10, 04:23 PM
Bumping a thread just to tell a joke that everyone's already heard? Not so cool.

Hey it wasn't Thread Necromancy, it was only a week or two old. Besides, it's come up a lot in my optimization contest thread, and it confused a couple of people, so a bump was within the code of conduct for the forum.

Not everyone, apparently, has heard of the Lightning Warrior.

Douglas
2009-10-10, 04:24 PM
What, no perform skill? Weak.

SparkMandriller
2009-10-10, 04:31 PM
I'm not saying it was necromancy. I'm just saying that everyone else heard his joke ten days to two years ago. Kinda old by now.

Douglas
2009-10-10, 04:35 PM
You have a rather strange definition of "everyone". I'm sure I am not alone in having never heard of this class before.

Eldan
2009-10-10, 04:38 PM
Since it's called lightning warrior, it sould also treat all weapons as shocking. And gain a permanent 3.0 haste, to make up for the lack of familiars.

Superglucose
2009-10-10, 04:41 PM
Bumping a thread just to tell a joke that everyone's already heard? Not so cool.
My bad, pretty sure this wasn't that far down on page 1. Must've accidentally been on page2 or 3 somehow :smallredface:

SparkMandriller
2009-10-10, 04:44 PM
I'm never going to forgive you.


Ever.

Deth Muncher
2009-10-10, 04:46 PM
I'm never going to forgive you.


Ever.

I wouldn't either.

BobVosh
2009-10-10, 04:59 PM
I think my favorite bit is the outraged self promotion plug:



06-17-07, 09:59 AM
I came here after seeing this class self promoted in another thread. Since I have a hard time getting responses to my Engetsu Shinobi I thought it would be only fair to support a fellow home brewer.

What in the...?

d20 hitdice?

Power for flavor?!! What flavor? The only thing even mentioned is some lame machismo about how he can kill quick as lighting. Check out my Engetsu Shinobi. It in itself is sometimes referred to as overpowered, but most people tend to back off that stance after really reading it through. More importantly though, there is a variant called the "riaru" which also gets full AB and 9th spells. It is presented as intentionally unbalanced since it revolves entirely around flavor and is only for gestalt or high powered games, and even it comes NOWHERE close to this garbage which "gives up power for flavor".

Thanks a lot for helping to give homebrew works a bad name.

DC

Elfin
2009-10-10, 05:12 PM
That was definitely one of the best posts, yeah.
Dang, now I'm going to have to reread that whole thread...

Draz74
2009-10-10, 05:36 PM
I think my favorite bit is the outraged self promotion plug:

Haha, I know! Isn't it classic? :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2009-10-10, 05:41 PM
By the way, since we are discussing flavourful things, have you guys seen the Planetouched linked in my Sig? :smallwink:

sofawall
2009-10-10, 05:49 PM
By the way, since we are discussing flavourful things, have you guys seen the Planetouched linked in my Sig? :smallwink:

Very skillful.

Zaydos
2009-10-10, 05:50 PM
By the way, since we are discussing flavourful things, have you guys seen the Planetouched linked in my Sig? :smallwink:

Not in a while, but I always loved 2e Planescape.

On topic:
I hadn't hurt about the Lightning Warrior till a few days before this thread popped up and didn't know what it was till I read this thread so these jokes can be new to people.

The sad thing is one of the first classes I ever made (lost when my old computer died) was called Lightning Warrior. It had neither a familiar or specialization. They didn't even know how to use bows (which was forgotten the one time they were played).

sonofzeal
2009-10-10, 06:05 PM
Not in a while, but I always loved 2e Planescape.

On topic:
I hadn't hurt about the Lightning Warrior till a few days before this thread popped up and didn't know what it was till I read this thread so these jokes can be new to people.

The sad thing is one of the first classes I ever made (lost when my old computer died) was called Lightning Warrior. It had neither a familiar or specialization. They didn't even know how to use bows (which was forgotten the one time they were played).
You, sir, win an Internetz. It is being beamed to you as we speak by a crack team of trained monkeys hammering on an infinite number of keyboards. Godspeed, sir.

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:07 PM
It amazes me that people still find the thing funny, and still quote the same two lines at almost any opportunity. xP

Solaris
2009-10-10, 06:08 PM
It amazes me that people still find the thing funny, and still quote the same two lines at almost any opportunity. xP

Two words for you: Monty Python.

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:11 PM
Two words for you: Monty Python.

Which has several books worth of quotes, not just the same two tired lines repeated over and over.
And doesn't get quoted even one hundreth as often around here.

sofawall
2009-10-10, 06:12 PM
However, you'd never know that from listening to people talk about it.

EDIT: Edit ninja'd!

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-10, 06:18 PM
Which has several books worth of quotes, not just the same two tired lines repeated over and over.
And doesn't get quoted even one hundreth as often around here.

Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:18 PM
However, you'd never know that from listening to people talk about it.

EDIT: Edit ninja'd!

Yeah, which is wierd, no? A much funnier, cleverer, larger, more creative canon of material, yet everyone goes for the Lighning Warrior. And then people complain about all the Python jokes people make.

The Lightning Warrior was kind of funny the first time, but at this point it's just tiresomely predictable.


Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

Now that's more like it! :smallsmile:

sofawall
2009-10-10, 06:24 PM
Yeah, which is wierd, no? A much funnier, cleverer, larger, more creative canon of material, yet everyone goes for the Lighning Warrior. And then people complain about all the Python jokes people make.

The Lightning Warrior was kind of funny the first time, but at this point it's just tiresomely predictable.



Now that's more like it! :smallsmile:

No, I meant people just repeat the same Python quotes over and over.

Although, to nitpick, I believe the line in question was "Are you saying that coconuts are migratory?"

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:29 PM
No, I meant people just repeat the same Python quotes over and over.

Although, to nitpick, I believe the line in question was "Are you saying that coconuts are migratory?"

They repeat a catalogue of perhaps 50, rather than 2, and with far less frequency. I'd get sick of Python too, but you hardly ever see it actually quoted around here.

Worira
2009-10-10, 06:34 PM
No, but it's quoted a lot more around game tables, I find.

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:43 PM
No, but it's quoted a lot more around game tables, I find.

I've never actually heard it done. Although I have heard a lot of stories about how much people do it. So I guess it happens all the time, but only to other people.

KellKheraptis
2009-10-10, 06:44 PM
-Sneaks in a comparison to see who's heard of it- This Lightning Warrior doesn't have a familiar...and he doesn't even have Riotous Heart! (The DF regulars will get it for sure...just ironic because I'm working on a Dragoon atm).

Myou
2009-10-10, 06:53 PM
-Sneaks in a comparison to see who's heard of it- This Lightning Warrior doesn't have a familiar...and he doesn't even have Riotous Heart! (The DF regulars will get it for sure...just ironic because I'm working on a Dragoon atm).

Noooooope, I do't get that one. D:

Zaydos
2009-10-10, 06:55 PM
I've never actually heard it done. Although I have heard a lot of stories about how much people do it. So I guess it happens all the time, but only to other people.

When I use to game at a gaming store (closed now, Pair'o'dice Games it was wonderful) some of the players would quote it a lot. Two of them I continued playing with for years, but without the third the quotes got taken down significantly. Since I've gone to college haven't heard any though. So it really depends upon who you're playing with.

Then again my friends didn't know what "Pining for the Fjords" meant.

T.G. Oskar
2009-10-10, 06:56 PM
Since it's called lightning warrior, it sould also treat all weapons as shocking. And gain a permanent 3.0 haste, to make up for the lack of familiars.

1 level of Shocking Blade of Heironeous?

Oh, wait, that's for divine classes. Nevermind.

Though...I think Lightning Warrior qualifies for Swiftblade.


No, but it's quoted a lot more around game tables, I find.

I can be perfectly sure that a suitable amount of game tables in non-English speaking countries don't use Python jokes. That certainty can be reduced if I add an estimate of 85% (and a very conservative one, too!)

Meanwhile, Pun-Pun and Lightning Warrior hold a very similar effect in a larger number of game tables if we add the non-English speaking countries.

Myou
2009-10-10, 07:07 PM
I can be perfectly sure that a suitable amount of game tables in non-English speaking countries don't use Python jokes. That certainty can be reduced if I add an estimate of 85% (and a very conservative one, too!)

Meanwhile, Pun-Pun and Lightning Warrior hold a very similar effect in a larger number of game tables if we add the non-English speaking countries.

Pun-Pun isn't exactly quoted though. Although it is referenced more than is healthy.

When I use to game at a gaming store (closed now, Pair'o'dice Games it was wonderful) some of the players would quote it a lot. Two of them I continued playing with for years, but without the third the quotes got taken down significantly. Since I've gone to college haven't heard any though. So it really depends upon who you're playing with.

Then again my friends didn't know what "Pining for the Fjords" meant.

Wow, I would have just asked them to stop, if it really went on for years.

Haven
2009-10-10, 07:12 PM
Meanwhile, Pun-Pun and Lightning Warrior hold a very similar effect in a larger number of game tables if we add the non-English speaking countries.

How do you figure? They are both written in English, after all; I'd say it's more likely that Monty Python made the language jump than those two.

Also, among English-speakers who play D&D, Monty Python is much more well-known than Pun-Pun or Lightning Warrior, so it's more likely to be referenced.

T.G. Oskar
2009-10-10, 09:25 PM
How do you figure? They are both written in English, after all; I'd say it's more likely that Monty Python made the language jump than those two.

Also, among English-speakers who play D&D, Monty Python is much more well-known than Pun-Pun or Lightning Warrior, so it's more likely to be referenced.

Asterix has a better chance to jump than Monty Python. Because Asterix refers to all Europe, while Monty Python is hauntingly British. If anything, Monty Python is hardly popular in Latin America, or perhaps Spain in that regard. And perhaps rarer in Francophone countries, what with their passive-agressive relationship with the British...

Pun-Pun, on the other hand, has a relatively better chance to be known by gamers of other countries since it's game-related, not a comedy step (well...you MIGHT say it's a comedy step, YMMV). Somehow, somewhere, there'll be a non-native-English-speaking munchkin who wishes to know the ultimate depth of optimization, and will for some reason stumble into Pun-Pun. There's a much smaller chance it steps into Lightning Warrior, although Munchkins aren't known for using other's homebrews (they'd rather do their own, which consists of "I Win", and sometimes "I send Rule 0 to the Far Realm" for those who know a small bit about D&D)

Zaydos
2009-10-10, 09:26 PM
Wow, I would have just asked them to stop, if it really went on for years.

I didn't get half of the references (limited to a few of the movies myself i.e. Holy Grail), and they made the same 3-6 jokes every time, but I didn't mind it was fun, and Python is usually funny. It still struck me as ironic that they considered themselves major fans and they didn't know the dead parrot skit which was described as one of the most famous skits of all time. The real problem was when my little brother found the Lumberjack Song... now that was horrible.

DragoonWraith
2009-10-10, 09:49 PM
On Monty Python references (http://xkcd.com/16/)

Though I'll admit I enjoy them too.

Myou
2009-10-11, 04:17 AM
I didn't get half of the references (limited to a few of the movies myself i.e. Holy Grail), and they made the same 3-6 jokes every time, but I didn't mind it was fun, and Python is usually funny. It still struck me as ironic that they considered themselves major fans and they didn't know the dead parrot skit which was described as one of the most famous skits of all time. The real problem was when my little brother found the Lumberjack Song... now that was horrible.

What on Earth is wrong with the lumberjack song?

Zaydos
2009-10-11, 04:33 AM
He repeated it constantly for a week. Nothing wrong with the song, loved it myself the first time, just anything repeated over and over again gets irritating.

Myou
2009-10-11, 05:54 AM
He repeated it constantly for a week. Nothing wrong with the song, loved it myself the first time, just anything repeated over and over again gets irritating.

Like the Lightning Warrior. :smallamused:

Illiterate Scribe
2009-10-11, 08:55 AM
Uranium swords! (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:aTJmd8q1CWUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-657376+%22uranium+sword%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari)

Boci
2009-10-11, 09:06 AM
Sometimes people quote lightning warrior when I newbie makes a new class and accidentally overpowers it. The first time I posted my apocalypto I got that response, which was just insulting. I had put a lot of work into the class and actually given it flavour. It may have been overpowered, but that was because it had some original (or at least uncommon) mechanical features that were hard to balance against existing ones, not because I had mashed together the best parts of the fighter wizard and sorcerer class without any drawbacks.

Myou
2009-10-11, 09:36 AM
Sometimes people quote lightning warrior when I newbie makes a new class and accidentally overpowers it. The first time I posted my apocalypto I got that response, which was just insulting. I had put a lot of work into the class and actually given it flavour. It may have been overpowered, but that was because it had some original (or at least uncommon) mechanical features that were hard to balance against existing ones, not because I had mashed together the best parts of the fighter wizard and sorcerer class without any drawbacks.

Knee-jerk repetition of memes is easier than constructive posting sadly.

Akal Saris
2009-10-11, 01:46 PM
Man, I totally wanted to type something about lightning warriors and their lack of familiars, but the sheer amount of grumpiness in this thread kind of killed that urge.

Last night my friend did make a monty python joke while playing Dominion though! (the lumberjack skit)

SurlySeraph
2009-10-11, 01:59 PM
Uranium swords! (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:aTJmd8q1CWUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-657376+%22uranium+sword%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari)

I statted out mercurial uranium chainsaw swordchucks at one point (drawing on a variety of sources), trying to create the most ridiculous weapon possible. I'm not sure it's better than "Heavy crossbow that fires a light crossbow that fires a Dire Flail" or "Orc quadruple axe" or "Hecatoncheires-chucks," but I think it's up there.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-11, 02:00 PM
How about nun-chucks?

Roland St. Jude
2009-10-11, 02:04 PM
How about nun-chucks?

You mean using a pair of actual holy sisters connected by a chain?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-11, 02:06 PM
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/henk/images/nun%20chucks.jpg
Nun chucks.

Or better yet,

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/MojoPhilter/Self/gunchucks.png
Gun chucks.

SurlySeraph
2009-10-11, 02:12 PM
http://www.the-isb.com/images/BatSharkChuksKH.jpg

YOU ARE OUTMATCHED.

sofawall
2009-10-11, 02:27 PM
This is a much better topic than the Lightning Warrior. Let it continue.

mabriss lethe
2009-10-11, 02:29 PM
Nun-chucks: TWFing with an appropriately sized female cleric (or elf, no one will ever know the difference.)in either hand. We know it's underdpowered because TWFing is suboptimal.... But Flavorful....

OK. I'm stopping now (and for the record, had never heard of the lightning warrior until a few days ago.)

SinsI
2009-10-11, 02:43 PM
Actually, if Lightning warrior doesn't have the ability to research new spells he might not be so overpowered...

taltamir
2009-10-11, 03:09 PM
The lack of familiar might have been meant to parody WOTC own PrCs for wizards and sorcerers... the only thing a wiz/sorc loses from taking a PrC is their familiar progression.

Mongoose87
2009-10-11, 03:11 PM
Actually, if Lightning warrior doesn't have the ability to research new spells he might not be so overpowered...

I thought he just cast spells like a wizard, therefore meaning he learns them from scrolls?

Damon_Caskey
2010-02-17, 11:31 AM
I think my favorite bit is the outraged self promotion plug:

Yes, thank you for dredging up something from over 2 years ago with no context what so ever and having a hoot at my/our expense.

While it is probably pointless to defend myself, I do think it's fair to mention that at the time, the so called "Lightning Warrior" hardly appeared to be a joke. Not to me, and not to the majority of other posters, at least for a short while. At the time the WOTC boards were at a pinnacle of insanity and filled with other concepts just as ludicrous to read and completely serious.

I'd like to think getting suckered by the occasional farce doesn't qualify as a mental deficiency. I guess none of you have ever been fooled by a joke before?

Call my post outraged self promotion if you wish. I'd call it justified frustration (ill advised yes) at having seen my own posts and those of others who actually put effort into their work ignored completely while utter crap fostered healthy debate. The Lighting Warrior may be an obvious joke now, but back then it was easily misconstrued as just more of the same.

I'm not sure if this post falls under thread O' mancy; the cutoff point isn't clear. If it is, please accept my apologies. I am actually here by request. Another user wished to know if I had a copy of my class since the link on this board is now dead. The answer for now is no, but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,
DC

The Glyphstone
2010-02-17, 11:48 AM
http://www.novarata.net/Thread_Necromancy.jpg

Yes, 4 months is thread necromancy.

Superglucose
2010-02-17, 11:51 AM
Yes, thank you for dredging up something from over 2 years ago with no context what so ever and having a hoot at my/our expense.
irony.

Mostly because it was my necro and not his and also because you necro'd it to complain about someone else necroing when he actually did no such thing.

SparkMandriller
2010-02-17, 11:54 AM
Man, imagine how this guy would have reacted if someone had said his post was the worst part of the thread!

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-17, 11:58 AM
XD


I love this topic. So damn much :smallbiggrin:

Damon_Caskey
2010-02-17, 11:59 AM
Fair enough. Different forums, different cultures.

Again, I was only here because someone else brought me via email. I'm aware of the irony as you put it. I just wanted to at least try and explain myself. You guys are reading way too much hostility out of this.

DC

Boci
2010-02-17, 12:02 PM
I'd like to think getting suckered by the occasional farce doesn't qualify as a mental deficiency. I guess none of you have ever been fooled by a joke before?

Ofcourse I have been fooled by a joke and made mistakes before. I should know, my friends keep reminding me about it.

What made your post so funny though was that you even mentioned something overpowered you made, but then explained its context, yet failed to consider that maybe the lightening warrior was joke.

Also, ending by insulting the posters doesn't help your cause either.

Damon_Caskey
2010-02-17, 12:13 PM
Ofcourse I have been fooled by a joke and made mistakes before. I should know, my friends keep reminding me about it.

What made your post so funny though was that you actually confessed to during what the lightning warrior did: building an overpowered hombrewd concept as a joke.

Uhm.. huh? I never built anything as a joke, and certainly didn't confess to it. My class was for a time even debated on this forum and ultimately given the seal of "balance" approval. I'm not saying it IS balanced, or even good.. but it was certainly not a joke.



Yet you failed to consider that maybe this poster was joking as well.


But since my stuff wasn't a joke, I didn't think his post was one either. That and again, the forum at the time was filled with half baked concepts that were also not jokes. Thus why I and others did not "get" the Lighting Warrior at first.



Also, ending by insulting the posters doesn't help your cause either.

When and who did I insult? If so I apologize. The harshest thing I said was "I guess none of you have been fooled by a joke before". You will never see me attack another person on a forum. I run a high traffic site (lavalit.com) just as big as giantitp, and if you think the Giant is strict, you wouldn't last a second in my house. I'm not about to break rules I'd ban someone else over.

I'm not trying to call anyone out, I just wanted to make clear I and my peers back in that thread were not idiots by sheer virtue of missing a joke and that making us out as such was way not cool. These days, yes, you'd have to be pretty naive to not get the Lighting Warrior. But when it was brand new and surrounded by other stupidity, not so much.

DC

Boci
2010-02-17, 12:33 PM
Wanted to PM you but I can't so I'll post here.


Uhm.. huh? I never built anything as a joke, and certainly didn't confess to it. My class was for a time even debated on this forum and ultimately given the seal of "balance" approval. I'm not saying it IS balanced, or even good.. but it was certainly not a joke.



But since my stuff wasn't a joke, I didn't think his post was one either. That and again, the forum at the time was filled with half baked concepts that were also not jokes. Thus why I and others did not "get" the Lighting Warrior at first.

I know. Edited my post (only too late).


When and who did I insult? If so I apologize. The harshest thing I said was "I guess none of you have been fooled by a joke before". You will never see me attack another person on a forum. I run a high traffic site (lavalit.com) just as big as giantitp, and if you think the Giant is strict, you wouldn't last a second in my house. I'm not about to break rules I'd ban someone else over.

I was talking about the origional post. "Thanks for giving homebred a bad name". Even if you did not know it was a joke, "This is overpowered. What kind of characters are used in your games, because we appear to be missing context" would have been the better response.
I understand you where frustrated at gthe time, but the fact that you said your own class was better makes you come off as a bit arrogant. Any homebred class will be better than the lightning warrior, but you don't say it about your own work.


I'm not trying to call anyone out, I just wanted to make clear I and my peers back in that thread were not idiots by sheer virtue of missing a joke and that making us out as such was way not cool. These days, yes, you'd have to be pretty naive to not get the Lighting Warrior. But when it was brand new and surrounded by other stupidity, not so much.

DC

No ones calling you idiots, just laughing at a mistake you made. Its happens to all of us. The problem is when it happens to you on the internet, there is actually a record of it.

Damon_Caskey
2010-02-17, 12:52 PM
Oh I admit my post back then was ill advised, and it isn't normally my style. We all have our lapses I suppose.

Thanks for actually discussing, and again sorry for the dredging. Although I run a tight ship over at lavalit, we actually prefer thread O' mancy as opposed to starting new ones on the same or similar topic. Long list of reasons why; one of them being that we often discuss coding and debugging. Best to keep those types of things all together.

Guess I'm a bit too used to it.

DC

kjones
2010-02-17, 12:58 PM
I'm consistently impressed by how much this thread sacrifices power for flavor.

Melamoto
2010-02-17, 01:27 PM
I know, it has no consistent topic or anything.

Sliver
2010-02-17, 02:15 PM
I'm amazed at how people start wasting even more diamonds just because raise dead doesn't work anymore..

erikun
2010-02-17, 03:02 PM
This thread has given me an image of Batman wielding shark-chucks. Lightning Warrior is truely underpowered because it will never reach the level of the BatSharkChucks.

Thurbane
2010-02-17, 05:08 PM
http://www.novarata.net/Thread_Necromancy.jpg

Yes, 4 months is thread necromancy.
Yeah, never get tired of that image...perhaps a simple "report to moderator" might be more constructive?

Dr.Epic
2010-02-17, 06:31 PM
I've seen like a dozen Lightning Warrior gags in the last couple weeks. What is this class and where is it from? I can't recall it from anywhere. And what, exactly, is the joke?

What that one PrC from Complete Arcane? It's like Master of the Storm or Rider of the Storm. I remember one the the requirements for it is you must be hit by lightning. I always picture a PC with a 30 ft copper rod walking around a forest on a cloudy day just so they can enter the class.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-17, 06:33 PM
[/spoiler]
Yeah, never get tired of that image...perhaps a simple "report to moderator" might be more constructive?

But that would be sacrificing the necromantic flavor of the thread for authoritypower.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-17, 06:40 PM
What that one PrC from Complete Arcane? It's like Master of the Storm or Rider of the Storm. I remember one the the requirements for it is you must be hit by lightning. I always picture a PC with a 30 ft copper rod walking around a forest on a cloudy day just so they can enter the class.

You could just get an ally to Lightning bolt you. :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2010-02-17, 06:45 PM
I always thought the lightening warrior was a specific jab at wizard PrCs. Because EVERY full caster progression PrC (which is the majority of them) gives you a ton of new powers and abilities, and the only cost is that your familiar no longer progresses.