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View Full Version : an odd metagaming



JeenLeen
2009-09-30, 12:23 PM
My friends and I just started a game of Mage: The Ascension. It's reached a point where we are to go to a Technocratic Construct. For those unfamiliar with the game, it essentially going to a "You Die Here" base of the bad guys, or at least so our characters know.

In the game, our characters are newly graduated apprentices. We, in one day, tried to find info to save a guy because of a prophecy. Our path started by talking to some unknown type of supernatural, another unknown who seemed to be able to kill us on a whim, then two vampires which also seemed able to kill us on a whim. We also got into a short fight with some gangsters when they tried to steal my car. We ended the day by finding out from the vampires that the Technocracy took this guy to their Construct.

Our plan is to go there the next day to investigate the cover organization the Construct is built under. It's reasonable--we're not planning an attack, at least--but at the same time, I feel that a character might just say, "Forget this. Sure, there's a dire prophecy about the end of the world. But those aren't always true. We're talking about a Construct here!"
I could also see: "Vampires? You're... kidding, right? I'm not going into the sewers at night to talk to vampires. I don't want to die."

But since the DM was leading us down this path, our characters are a bit bolder than is realistic. Is this metagaming acceptable? Necessary? I'd also like to hear about instances of such in other peoples' games.

valadil
2009-09-30, 12:44 PM
I feel like this kind of metagaming is necessary in most games. And I find this unfortunate.

Tyndmyr
2009-09-30, 12:52 PM
I have had to adjust campaigns before because players said "Screw this....there's no way I'm going in there...Im not gonna die for (paltry reward)"

It's reasonable, too. There's always some play in what your character would do...but for most sane characters, there are eventual limits. Bring it up...in character.

Lapak
2009-09-30, 01:19 PM
Our plan is to go there the next day to investigate the cover organization the Construct is built under. It's reasonable--we're not planning an attack, at least--but at the same time, I feel that a character might just say, "Forget this. Sure, there's a dire prophecy about the end of the world. But those aren't always true. We're talking about a Construct here!"
I could also see: "Vampires? You're... kidding, right? I'm not going into the sewers at night to talk to vampires. I don't want to die."And even more importantly, if this is Mage: The Ascension, then there's always another way around them. Competing paradigms (in character) and reality-by-consensus (out of character) kick prophecy to the curb nine times out of ten when push comes to shove. A character I was playing in that situation would get to work chipping away at the more readily available edges of the prophecy in order to find an exploitable flaw. That said...

But since the DM was leading us down this path, our characters are a bit bolder than is realistic. Is this metagaming acceptable? Necessary? I'd also like to hear about instances of such in other peoples' games.You are the ones, in the end, who decide how your characters react. If they decide that stopping the prophecy is potentially more important than your lives, don't worry about why YOU came to the decision: figure out how THEY came to that decision. Sometimes you can make a character more alive in your own mind by figuring why they would have done the thing you just had them do.

JonestheSpy
2009-09-30, 01:25 PM
You are the ones, in the end, who decide how your characters react. If they decide that stopping the prophecy is potentially more important than your lives, don't worry about why YOU came to the decision: figure out how THEY came to that decision. Sometimes you can make a character more alive in your own mind by figuring why they would have done the thing you just had them do.

Yeah. most of the times, we play people who are actually more heroic than our real selves, y'know...

Oh, and btw, if I was GMing and players ignored a possibly world ending prophecy, I'd be damn tempted to end the world.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-30, 01:39 PM
I feel that a character might just say, "Forget this. Sure, there's a dire prophecy about the end of the world. But those aren't always true. We're talking about a Construct here!"
Two things. One, any character with some skill in the Entropy discipline should be able to verify the accuracy of said dire prophecy.

And two, assuming you were in a position to do something about it in the first place, would you be willing to gamble The World on a wild guess that the prophecy might not be true?

Boci
2009-09-30, 01:43 PM
Two things. One, any character with some skill in the Entropy discipline should be able to verify the accuracy of said dire prophecy.

And two, assuming you were in a position to do something about it in the first place, would you be willing to gamble The World on a wild guess that the prophecy might not be true?

The problem is the Dm appears to be spamming his world with monster way more powerful than the players. This is good at creating a feeling of hopelessness, but surely any sane person is going to consider, "Aren't there more powerful beings who are better suited for the job?"

Kurald Galain
2009-09-30, 01:57 PM
The problem is the Dm appears to be spamming his world with monster way more powerful than the players.
...that's kind of the point of World of Darkness.

It's essentially Roy vs Xykon. You know you'll probably fail, but there isn't anyone else to do it.

Boci
2009-09-30, 02:13 PM
...that's kind of the point of World of Darkness.

It's essentially Roy vs Xykon. You know you'll probably fail, but there isn't anyone else to do it.

This kind of play style does not seem to well suited for the OP then and he needs to discuss it with the DM.

kamikasei
2009-09-30, 02:26 PM
I feel like this kind of metagaming is necessary in most games. And I find this unfortunate.

I disagree. Commonly, your characters have to be people willing to do stuff few people would. But they don't have to be willing to do things they would not. If they're meant to be apprentice mages in a setting where such people should be acutely conscious of their abilities and their prospects for survival, the ST shouldn't be trying to set up a scenario requiring them to recklessly run in to danger.

OP, his group, and his ST need to discuss the tone of the game and make sure their characters are realistically capable of participating in it.