Fallout 3: Need some help preparing for the future

[Jeivar]

Well, it's only a couple of week till I finally get my grubby hands on the Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition package, and I figure I might as well decide how to tailor my character, given how many hours that game sucks out of your life.

I already played the basic version of Fallout 3 a while back so I know the basics, but it was a bit of a speed-run, so there's definitely room for improvement.

Character-Creation wise I currently have this setup in mind for the first 20 levels:

S: 5
P: 6
E: 5
C: 5
I: 7
A: 7
L: 5

I'll Tag Small Guns, Lockpick, and Stealth

And Perks:

2: Swift Learner or Intense Training (Endurance or Intelligence)
3: Intense Training (Charisma or Strength)
4: Either Educated or Comprehension. I'm not really sure which is better.
5: Not sure. Maybe Educated AND Comprehension
6: Toughness
7: Intense Training or Gunslinger
8: Commando
9: Strong Back
10: Finesse
11: Night Person
12: Silent Running
13: Sniper
14: Adamantium Skeleton
15: Lawbringer/Light Step/Intense Training. I just don't know.
16: Action Boy
17: Better Criticals
18: Intense Training
19: Strong Back (??)
20: Grim Reaper's Sprint

What do you think? Did I pick some crappy Perks or overlook some good ones?

And will my choice of companion affect my play-style? I'm planning to go with Clover. Will she interfere with my stealthy sniper plans? And does having a follower affect my XP-gain any like in Baldur's Gate?

Oh, and before getting a house (I'm planning to delay that for a bit to stay neutral), can I store equipment in a container without it vanishing?

[TheLogman]

Perks and such look very nice. With Comprehension and Educated, you'll probably be able to do what I did, and max out Small Guns early, and then max out Energy Weapons once they become more common.

Followers can and will break your stealth, but they're not that important anyway, the monsters even at later levels are meant to be taken on solo in any case.

Followers do not affect EXP-gain.

As for containers, not really, no. Any container you don't own (Isn't in your house) will wipe whatever you put in there every once and a while.

Early house is important.

Well, not that all important. As long as you don't keep every piece of junk in the hope it'll make a cool weapon (The make able weapons are meh), you shouldn't have many weight woes until much later when you carry every weapon known to man.

[Bouregard]

Followers do not affect EXP-gain.

If you don't do more damage to the enemy then your follower you will get NO EXP.


Forget about Lawbringer/theother you will have enough money.

Light step is not usefull. Mines are easy spotable and if you can ignore 90% of all traps so some areas stop being funny.

Swift Learner is also redundant. You will be lvl 20 if you just do all the DLC and with the MQ you're lvl 30. As nearly everything scales with you lvl is nothing you desperatly want to reach. Trust me on that. A lvl 1 will encounter all sorts of cool beasts in the wastes, a lvl 30 will only encounter Albino RADscorpions because they have eaten all the other things.

Think about Child at heart, the +50% to bugs damage-PERK and Black Widow/Lady Killer. They are all surprisingly usefull and funny

And if you got some Perks left think about robotics Expert. In Underworld it will be really cool.

[Jeivar]

Think about Child at heart, the +50% to bugs damage-PERK and Black Widow/Lady Killer. They are all surprisingly usefull and funny


Really? I'd heard Child at Heart and Black Widow/Ladykiller were pretty much useless conversation-wise, and 10% extra damage isn't all that much.

[valadil]

I'd tag repair over stealth. Repair will help you get decent caps at the beginning of the game and it'll keep your encumbrance low.

[Bouregard]

Really? I'd heard Child at Heart and Black Widow/Ladykiller were pretty much useless conversation-wise, and 10% extra damage isn't all that much.

Child at Heart will provide you with more money than Lawbringer/otherthingie does. It basically works with nearly every Child in the game AND allows you to skip a very annoying quest (however you can still do it, but trust me it's really practical in that situation)

Black Widow/Ladykiller is inferior to Child at Heart yes, but still superior to some other perks. However sometimes you will like the extra conversation parts. As Fallout 3 is a pretty big game I personally roll with as much dialog options as I can in one playthrought.


Oh and you will like Bloody Mess. The 5% are awesome.


But everything depends a bit on your playstile why you didn't describe it a little more? Will you use VATS as much as possible or will you stick to free aim? As you said you want to be a stealthy sniper... 5% damage or 10% are a huge bonus.

[Starbuck_II]

Oh, and before getting a house (I'm planning to delay that for a bit to stay neutral), can I store equipment in a container without it vanishing?

If you don't own a container in 3 days, it will wipe. Exceprions for your house.
So make sure to check back every 3 days.

There are exceptions:
The Springfield (whatever starting school is) school has an office container in library that doesn't wipe. I usually drop stop there because there is a nearby bed.

Vince's Vampire people doesn't wipe (the shop box and Frigerator at minimum don't), but you get bad karma.

Soda machines outside at Super Duper Mart never wiped for me after 4 days so they were safe for me.

[Jeivar]

But everything depends a bit on your playstile why you didn't describe it a little more? Will you use VATS as much as possible or will you stick to free aim? As you said you want to be a stealthy sniper... 5% damage or 10% are a huge bonus.

No melee on the first playthrough. Lots of VATS. Lots of cool stealth-headshots, but also capable of duking it out in a firefight. And lots of pickpocketing and break-ins to keep me funded and equipped. :)
Other than that I don't really know what to say. I just want to run around the wasteland with Dogmeat and Clover, see the sights, pop heads, and be smart enough to manage tricky Speech and Repair checks.

[psilontech]

I haven't played Fallout 3 in quite some time, but something just occurred to me:


/spoilers, I guess.../

If you have the cannibal perk, does that open up special dialogue with the blood drinking, former cannibals in that one underground place?

[Ikialev]

Yes.

2: Swift Learner or Intense Training (Endurance or Intelligence)
3: Intense Training (Charisma or Strength)
--
Swift Learner = useless.

4: Either Educated or Comprehension. I'm not really sure which is better.
5: Not sure. Maybe Educated AND Comprehension
--
Comprehension, Educated is useless with Comprehension.

6: Toughness
--
YES

7: Intense Training or Gunslinger
8: Commando
--
Only commando, Gunslinger is useless, as one-handed weapon are weak.

9: Strong Back
--
...well, yeah.

10: Finesse
--
YES

11: Night Person
--
Useless, SPECIAL stats don't do anything. Especially in Night Person, where they don't affect skills.

12: Silent Running
13: Sniper
--
Ok.

14: Adamantium Skeleton
15: Lawbringer/Light Step/Intense Training. I just don't know.
--
Useless, all of them

16: Action Boy
17: Better Criticals
--
Yes

18: Intense Training
--
Stop, it's not funny.

19: Strong Back (??)
--
Already said it.

20: Grim Reaper's Sprint
--
At last something good.

Overall, it's a weak choice of perks.
Also:
-Less Charisma. 1, or such.
-More Agility and Intelligence. 9 in both.

[Jeivar]

Overall, it's a weak choice of perks.


Oh? Do you have better suggestions?

[Oslecamo]

Dump charisma. Just dump it. It's pretty much worthless, and you could use the other stats.

[warty goblin]

I've not beaten FO3 yet, but I can't imagine playing without Repair as high as practical.

[Starbuck_II]

Dump charisma. Just dump it. It's pretty much worthless, and you could use the other stats.

But speak checks are multiplied by Charisma. Even with 100 Speach you can fail Speak checks due to low Charisma.

[warty goblin]

But speak checks are multiplied by Charisma. Even with 100 Speach you can fail Speak checks due to low Charisma.

This is a problem, tragically, designed to be solved by copious abuse of the quicksave and quickload buttons.

[Oslecamo]

This is a problem, tragically, designed to be solved by copious abuse of the quicksave and quickload buttons.

Indeed. Also, it's just much practical to do whatever quests the NPCs demand to get their help.

And heck, just get 100 charisma, eulogy John's hat, naughty dress, drink a beer, and presto, everybody will lick your feets!

Minor trivia: the best container is the ground. Containers indeed respawn, but leave something in the ground and it will stay there pretty much forever!

[Avilan the Grey]

Really? I'd heard Child at Heart and Black Widow/Ladykiller were pretty much useless conversation-wise, and 10% extra damage isn't all that much.

Repair Repair Repair. It's the only skill ALL my characters take.

As for Ladykiller or Black Widow: Really useful, I am surprised how many dialog options that do open up with them.

[BizzaroStormy]

Minor trivia: the best container is the ground. Containers indeed respawn, but leave something in the ground and it will stay there pretty much forever!

Yeah, until a raider or something comes by and picks it up.

[charl]

Swift learner (I think, the one that gives 5% faster XP gain) is not recommended. You will find plenty to kill anyway, so leveling is not a problem, and you will reach max level faster which makes the endgame really boring.

Some input on perks:

2: Swift Learner or Intense Training (Endurance or Intelligence)
3: Intense Training (Charisma or Strength)
Intense training is not necessarily that bad, and the perk choice is limited at early levels. Int is a good stat to boost, as it gives you more skill points next time you level. Of charisma and strength, I would do strength, so you can carry more loot.

4: Either Educated or Comprehension. I'm not really sure which is better.
5: Not sure. Maybe Educated AND Comprehension
Comprehension is an ok perk. Don't take educated, or any other perk that gives a flat bonus to skills. As for what you'd take instead, well if you are playing a female character then femme fatale is great. Most human enemies you fight are males so that damage bonus applies to a lot of enemies.

6: Toughness
7: Intense Training or Gunslinger
8: Commando
9: Strong Back
10: Finesse
11: Night Person
Night person is not that good. I would take something else, maybe a perk that gives bonus when fighting robots or something like that?

12: Silent Running
13: Sniper
14: Adamantium Skeleton
15: Lawbringer/Light Step/Intense Training. I just don't know.
Lawbringer is not really worth it. I would take intense training if I had to chose between the three. Int or strength.

16: Action Boy
17: Better Criticals
18: Intense Training
19: Strong Back (??)
20: Grim Reaper's Sprin
All good choices. Strong back could maybe be exchanged for some of the more fun or weird perks, just to see what happens. ;)

[Skios]

One perk I haven't seen mentioned yet is Concentrated Fire, level 18 and 60 small guns and energy weapons required. It basically increases your accuracy in VATS by 5% for each consecutive shot targeting the same body part. 13% for the first shot becomes 18% on the second, 23% on the third, etc..

A dedicated character build (10 Agility, Ranger's Combat Armor, Ledoux's Hockey Mask, Action Boy/Girl) will have 140 AP without using any chems/food/etc.. That means that you'll manage 8 shots with the Wazer Wifle, 4 shots with the Blackhawk, 6 shots with the Xuanlong Assault Rifle and 4 shots with the ridiculously overpowered Reservist's Rifle. Coupled with the Sniper and Commando perks, you'll be killing pretty much everything with a head from miles away.

Also, a slight spoiler for Broken Steel:At level 30, you can get the "Almost Perfect" perk. This raises all SPECIAL stats lower than 9 to 9. If you hold off collecting the Bobbleheads until then, you can get a perfect character. Of course you'd have to be really dedicated to the idea to tough it out up to that point.

[Avilan the Grey]

Swift learner (I think, the one that gives 5% faster XP gain) is not recommended. You will find plenty to kill anyway, so leveling is not a problem, and you will reach max level faster which makes the endgame really boring.

Agreed. I even have a mod that cuts all XP in half, for slower leveling.

[Oslecamo]

Yeah, until a raider or something comes by and picks it up.

Never hapened to me. NPCs just don't pick up stuff from the ground except some rare exceptions.

This is, when I was I Raven Rock I insisted on cleaning up the place, wich meant I got out of there encumbered as hell(more than 2000 pounds of loot if I'm not mistaken).

Not wanting to risk going encumbered all the way back to Megatown, I droped enough loot untill I could fast travel.

I went to Megatown, deposited, went back, picked more loot, repeat.

It took me 5 game days to bring it all back, and well, nothing seemed to be missing from the piles of plasma weaponry, power armors and whatnot.

[Lizard]

My 3 cents about general character-building advice

1) (un)Fortunately the exp gain in Fallout 3 is pretty rapid. To the point that by the time I did finished exploring and questing in the starting area (Megaton and its surroundings...) I was around level 12-14. And I didn’t even grind or fanatically explored every nook and cranny- I just did quest I could get in Megaton and explored anything that looked interesting while I was going to/from quest location. Infact, it wouldn’t hurt if they decreased the exp gain by 15-25%.This also makes Intense Training, and Here and Now! perks almost useless...

2) There are only few perks you really need to make a viable combat character. For example, If you want to be a sniper, take Commando, Finesse, Better Critical, Sniper (duh...), Action boy, Grim reaper abd maybe Silent Running if you want to be sneaky, and perk-vise you are pretty much as good as it gets. Although some of the remaining perks are more or less useful, you wont cripple yourself in any way if you take the less useful (or useless...) ones just because you think they look cool or that they would fit your character.

3) Something that comes up almost every time someone ask to help with character is that you shouldn’t increase your S.P.E.C.I.A.L over 9, or your skills over 60/70/80/whatever... because there are bobble heads that can permanently increase you S.P.E.C.I.A.L by one, and your skills by some amount... Yeah, but those items are not exactly common. You probably will find some of them during you travels, but unless you spoil yourself with guide, or you have played the game several times (or are level 20 and are just exploring the world to get all the secrets, at and at that points they are pretty redundant anyway) it is not that likely that you will find exactly the ones you want. If you are a min-maxer or like to play the game with guide, you safely disregard this, but if you want actually discover the game secrets, you shouldn’t be afraid to get that Intelligence or that Small Guns skill to 10 or 100…

[BizzaroStormy]

Actually if you're wanting to be a sniper, VATS perks are the last thing you want. A sniper rifle degrades fast enough as it is but it will be seriously hurting after roughly 30 shots in vats.

[Avilan the Grey]

3) Something that comes up almost every time someone ask to help with character is that you shouldn’t increase your S.P.E.C.I.A.L over 9, or your skills over 60/70/80/whatever... because there are bobble heads that can permanently increase you S.P.E.C.I.A.L by one, and your skills by some amount... Yeah, but those items are not exactly common.

Exactly. Unless you get a guide and is a completionist, my advice is to go 10 on anything you want to have 10 in, except Strength and Intelligence which are easy to get early without really any trouble.

Same for skills, really; I am usually at 100 on Small Arms before I find that Bobblehead, for example.

[Avilan the Grey]

Actually if you're wanting to be a sniper, VATS perks are the last thing you want. A sniper rifle degrades fast enough as it is but it will be seriously hurting after roughly 30 shots in vats.

This is ONLY true if you actually use a Sniper Rifle as a sniper, which you really should not do for the reasons stated above. If you use any other weapon, like the Repeater, or O'l painless, or just the common hunting rifle, get the perks. Get them NOW. The Repeater is almost broken, that's how good it is at long range, and if you are an Energy Weapon based Sniper, the Gauss rifle works wonders with these perks too.

[Oslecamo]

Exactly. Unless you get a guide and is a completionist, my advice is to go 10 on anything you want to have 10 in, except Strength and Intelligence which are easy to get early without really any trouble.

Same for skills, really; I am usually at 100 on Small Arms before I find that Bobblehead, for example.

I disagree. Unless you never check what you pick up, you'll find plenty of items and drugs to temporaly boost your skills and stats, allowing you to put points in something else while at the same time being able to be the best at several things.

My character never went anywhere whitout his science garb, utility jumpsuit, roving barter outfit and an handfull of drugs and booze, in order to be able to buff himself to suit whatever situation arised.

This way, I can open very hard locks and crack very hard computers whitout actually needing to put 100 points in those skills.

[shadow_archmagi]

Character-Creation wise I currently have this setup in mind for the first 20 levels:

S: 5
P: 6
E: 5
C: 5
I: 7
A: 7
L: 5

I'll Tag Small Guns, Lockpick, and Stealth

And Perks:

2: Swift Learner or Intense Training (Endurance or Intelligence)
3: Intense Training (Charisma or Strength)
4: Either Educated or Comprehension. I'm not really sure which is better.
5: Not sure. Maybe Educated AND Comprehension
6: Toughness
7: Intense Training or Gunslinger
8: Commando
9: Strong Back
10: Finesse
11: Night Person
12: Silent Running
13: Sniper
14: Adamantium Skeleton
15: Lawbringer/Light Step/Intense Training. I just don't know.
16: Action Boy
17: Better Criticals
18: Intense Training
19: Strong Back (??)
20: Grim Reaper's Sprint

What do you think? Did I pick some crappy Perks or overlook some good ones?

And will my choice of companion affect my play-style? I'm planning to go with Clover. Will she interfere with my stealthy sniper plans? And does having a follower affect my XP-gain any like in Baldur's Gate?

Oh, and before getting a house (I'm planning to delay that for a bit to stay neutral), can I store equipment in a container without it vanishing?

First off, there's no reason you can't get a house and stay neutral. I recommend Megaton, simply because it has a pile of shops and is conveniently central. Just save the town, get the house, and then murder a couple hobos and call it even.

Second, the bolded bits should probably change, optimally. Swift Learner, if I recall correctly, is the +10% XP perk.

Now, think about this in traditional RPG gamer terms: There are only 19 perks in the entire game. This perk will, effectively, make it so that when you kill 10 bandits, you actually kill 11 bandits. You know what else will do that? Shooting an eleventh bandit. So, the question is, which is more valuable "One of only nineteen superpowers" or "A single NPC and the repair fees on my weapon from murdering him"

INT, on the other hand, should really be 10. 9 if you feel that you can just go find the bobblehead right off the bat. Every point of INT at start is worth 19 skill points that you can choose to distribute! At the end of the day, having a 10 in STR AGI and CON will help you less than having a high % in all the skills you need.

[Avilan the Grey]

I disagree. Unless you never check what you pick up, you'll find plenty of items and drugs to temporaly boost your skills and stats, allowing you to put points in something else while at the same time being able to be the best at several things.

My character never went anywhere whitout his science garb, utility jumpsuit, roving barter outfit and an handfull of drugs and booze, in order to be able to buff himself to suit whatever situation arised.

This way, I can open very hard locks and crack very hard computers whitout actually needing to put 100 points in those skills.

Being a sneaker and a sniper, I have a STR of 4. Including Bobble Head.
I have never used drugs (except Radaway and Stimpacks, and very occasionally a Rad-X or two) and with any character, too much hassle, and they are worth so much nice caps.

[Ikialev]

Oh? Do you have better suggestions?
Yes. ^ GOTY edition has all the addons, righ?

Stats:
S 4
P 7
E 4
C 1
I 9
A 9
L 6, you will get more later from items and bobblehead.

What to tag:
Small Guns, Stealth and lockpick, you got that right.

Perks!:
Level 2: Black Widow
Level 3: Daddy's Boy/Girl
Level 4: Iron Fist (1)
Level 5: Entomologist
Level 6: Toughness
Level 7: Bloody Mess
Level 8: Strong Back
Level 9: Commando
Level 10: Finesse
Level 11: Demolition Expert (1)
Level 12: Sniper
Level 13: Silent Running
Level 14: Cyborg
Level 15: Pyromaniac
Level 16: Action Boy
Level 17: Better Criticals
Level 18: Paralyzing Palm
Level 19: Robotics Expert
Level 20: Grim Reaper's Sprint
Level 21: Ninja
Level 22: Iron Fist (2)
Level 23: Iron Fist (3)
Level 24: Life Giver
Level 25: Demolition Expert (2)
Level 26: Nerves of Steel
Level 27: Gunslinger
Level 28: Demolition Expert (3)
Level 29: [Choice: Puppies!/Quantum Chemist]
Level 30: Nuclear Anomaly

...which is not a sneak build, but all-around build. Well

[Inhuman Bot]

Child at heart and Ladykiller open up 3-4 dialogue options each, so that's not exactly tremendous..

There's also another FO 3 thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106734&page=14)

[Ur-Quan]

Very, very nice place for choosing perks:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/fallout3/
Just go to perk menu.

[oyhr]

Melee builds in FO3 are more powerful than any other build.

[Avilan the Grey]

Melee builds in FO3 are more powerful than any other build.

Funny, I would argue the exact same thing about Sneak / Snipe builds.

[charl]

Funny, I would argue the exact same thing about Sneak / Snipe builds.

I would argue an energy weapon-sniper build.

[NeoVid]

I played a stealthy sniper, and it was amazing. And much easier than a meleer for a first playthrough.



Character-Creation wise I currently have this setup in mind for the first 20 levels:

S: 5
P: 6
E: 5
C: 5
I: 7
A: 7
L: 5



I'd put S at 4, since you won't really use it for much, and the bobblehead is so early. Charisma should be 3 at most, if you really want Child at Heart.



2: Swift Learner or Intense Training (Endurance or Intelligence)
3: Intense Training (Charisma or Strength)
4: Either Educated or Comprehension. I'm not really sure which is better.
5: Not sure. Maybe Educated AND Comprehension
6: Toughness
7: Intense Training or Gunslinger
8: Commando
9: Strong Back
10: Finesse
11: Night Person
12: Silent Running
13: Sniper
14: Adamantium Skeleton
15: Lawbringer/Light Step/Intense Training. I just don't know.
16: Action Boy
17: Better Criticals
18: Intense Training
19: Strong Back (??)
20: Grim Reaper's Sprint

What do you think? Did I pick some crappy Perks or overlook some good ones?

And will my choice of companion affect my play-style? I'm planning to go with Clover. Will she interfere with my stealthy sniper plans?


Swift Learner is a waste. I took Educated and Comprehension in my rush playthrough, since I had perks to spare, and no time to scour the wasteland for books. Educated is about 75 skill points for sure, while Comprehension is a possible 300+... but you can max just about everything at high Int anyway.

Night Person doesn't do anything useful, and neither does Adamantium... Cyborg, however, is like 4 good perks in one. Get it for sure.

A lot of your other perks are exactly the same as my stealthy sniper. If you have the space, there's no problem with both Gunslinger and Commando. My two main weapons were the unique scoped .44 and the unique plasma rifle, so I was glad to have both.

As for above level 20 perks, no idea. Is Puppies exploitable for opening companion slots just like Dogmeat dying?

And Clover is entertaining, but she's one of the weakest followers. Jericho is better and Charon is best if you're powergaming.

I ended up with Charon, Paladin Cross, Fawkes and Dogmeat all as followers, using only one cheat. :smallbiggrin: If you play intelligently, you can still get use out of stealth with followers, but it's hard.

[charl]

Puppies is a level 26 perk (I think). It requires Broken Steel at any rate.

As for companions I am partial to ol' Sarge (the robot that is), but that is mostly because I really enjoy his battle taunts ("Another glorious day in the US army!") plus his plasma gun deals a fair amount of damage and he can carry a lot of stuff (second only to Fawkes, who is also a really good companion). Without DLCs however there is a bug that makes it so he can't level up so unless you use the expansions he is not recommended.

[Keris]

Puppies is a level 26 perk (I think). It requires Broken Steel at any rate.
The OP is getting Fallout 3 Game of the Year edition, which includes all DLC so far. And Puppies! is available from level 22.


Without DLCs however there is a bug that makes it so he can't level up so unless you use the expansions he is not recommended.
It's the other way around. With DLCs there is a bug that makes it so that creature companions scales to your level, which makes them stupidly powerful. RL-3, Fawkes and Dogmeat are meant to be a fixed level, but some fool ticked the "scale to player's level" tag on every companion when they were increasing the max levels to Broken Steel's 30, which means that the health they had before is now multiplied up by the player's level.
This makes them effectively immortal: Fawkes is meant to have 500 health but will have 3000 at his previous "default" level; RL-3 is meant to have 350, but will have 3150 at his "default"; and Dogmeat is meant to have 500, but will have 2500 (and a puppy at the minimum level to obtain one will have 11 500 health).

[Willis888]

I was wondering why Dogmeat was still in one piece and relatively unhurt after jumping in front of a missile. I knew I had blown him up that way before in earlier games (before installing expansions obviously).

Damage seems to scale up as well.

My most recent play through has been as a max-damage grunt. Demolition (3), Pyromaniac, Bloody Mess, Weapon Finesse, etc... There is no problem that a Heavy Incinerator and handful of Frag Grenades can't solve.

[oyhr]

Funny, I would argue the exact same thing about Sneak / Snipe builds.

Melee characters require stealth anyway and guns can be fired without invested skill points outside of VATS. You only want to spend points on skills that actually have an ingame effect.

[Jeivar]

I appreciate all the input I've gotten, but I gotta ask: Why all the hate against Charisma? I want to be able to talk my way out of trouble, or into a reward, and apparently you need a good Speech skill AND a decent Charisma to pull those checks off.

[oyhr]

There's a lack of meaningful Speech checks in the game. You always seem to end up using another skill, like Science or something.

[Oslecamo]

I appreciate all the input I've gotten, but I gotta ask: Why all the hate against Charisma? I want to be able to talk my way out of trouble, or into a reward, and apparently you need a good Speech skill AND a decent Charisma to pull those checks off.

Besides simply saving-reloading to easily win any speech check, charisma is really easy to temporaly boost. Drink booze, put on clothes that give +cha(there's a decent number of them in the wasteland) and presto, people will be licking your feets!

Plus, very very few enemies will give you a chance of geting away with words alone. Ever tried to persuade a deathclaw or a sentry bot to let you pass? Not pretty.

[Avilan the Grey]

Melee characters require stealth anyway and guns can be fired without invested skill points outside of VATS. You only want to spend points on skills that actually have an ingame effect.

So you agree with me?
(Sorry, I actually can't tell if you agree with me or try to argue against me; that quote above is a "duh" argument for anyone what have played any RPG, ever. Only put skill points (and perks) towards things you actually use).

[charl]

While you can fire a gun outside of VATS not having skill points invested in it makes your shots less accurate, in that they will angle away from your aiming point and hit somewhere else.

So ranged weapon skills are still very good things to have.