How Kubota hit Therkla?

[The Rugi]

Okay, I don't know if this was brought up yet, since I'm sort of new here, and this is based on a pretty old event, but still, how did Kubota hit Therkla?

Sure, she was flat footed, but I'm assuming the ninja class is based on the assassin class or rogue class, so she's gotta have uncanny dodge, right? And being such, she probably has high dexterity too. Are we just assuming Kubota rolled a natural 20? He's an NPC class so his base attack bonus is probably piss poor. He seemed a bit too confident about being able to hit Therkla with his little poison ring.

Even the NPC ninja waitress managed to uncannily dodge Belkar's thrown plate, even at Belkar's fairly high level coupled with his full base attack bonus, small size, and racial bonus to thrown weapons (even including the improvised weapon penalty, it's still high). I don't think Belkar rolled a 1 since it was clearly aimed right at her (or where she was before she dodged).

[Porthos]

Okay, I don't know if this was brought up yet, since I'm sort of new here, and this is based on a pretty old event, but still, how did Kubota hit Therkla?

Sure, she was flat footed, but I'm assuming the ninja class is based on the assassin class or rogue class, so she's gotta have uncanny dodge, right? And being such, she probably has high dexterity too. Are we just assuming Kubota rolled a natural 20? He's an NPC class so his base attack bonus is probably piss poor. He seemed a bit too confident about being able to hit Therkla with his little poison ring.

Even the NPC ninja waitress managed to uncannily dodge Belkar's thrown plate, even at Belkar's fairly high level coupled with his full base attack bonus, small size, and racial bonus to thrown weapons (even including the improvised weapon penalty, it's still high). I don't think Belkar rolled a 1 since it was clearly aimed right at her (or where she was before she dodged).

It was specifically called a Touch Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks) in the strip which meant that all he has to deal with was Therkla's Dex. As as he notes, he may be a lousy swordsman, but he can still make a touch attack with a poisoned ring. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0592.html)

If he was a 12th level Aristocrat (considering that Lord Shojo was lvl 14, this doesn't seem unreasonable), he still gets a +9 to his attack roll. More than enough to usually beat Therkla's Dex (which at the most is +4 or +5). Even a +7 or +8 would give him fairly decent odds. Also, the DM (I know, I know I know :smallwink:) might have ruled that Therkla was sufficently distracted that her Uncanny Dodge (if she has it) wasn't in play. Then there's Kubota's own Str (if he has a positive one) score which would help here.

Beyond all of that, who is to say that he wasn't wearing some item that boosted his to-hit chance. After all, he knew going in that he would use it on someone. So it stands to reason that he came prepared. :smalltongue:

[Herald Alberich]

Don't forget that he has some sort of "sneaky evil aristocrat" prestige class (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html). Perhaps it gives him a bonus to backstabs and similar underhanded moves.

[Porthos]

Don't forget that he has some sort of "sneaky evil aristocrat" prestige class (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html). Perhaps it gives him a bonus to backstabs and similar underhanded moves.

Not only that, but from re-reading the strip again the "if the target is otherwise occupied..." line is almost a guarantee that he was able to slip by the Uncanny Dodge. Either by the sneaky prestige class you mention, or by DM Ruling (again, I know, I know I know :smallwink:).

Which would make it almost an Auto Hit. A +9 to hit would be a "Don't roll a '1'" in this case. Sad to say for Therkla.

[The Rugi]

Ah, a touch attack. I didn't think of that possibility. So 1d20 + 9 vs 14 AC is a fairly good chance to hit so, fine fine, I can finally accept her defeat.

[The Rugi]

Actually, I'm going to have to argue against that touch attack part. It's a needle with poison applied to it. If you swiped a poisoned needle at, say, someone's plate armor, it won't have any effect. So I'd say armor is still a factor. Also, you need to break the skin as well and make sure poison enters the body, so touching with it isn't enough. Even though Therkla is probably wearing no better than leather armor, it still counts!

[Porthos]

Actually, I'm going to have to argue against that touch attack part. It's a needle with poison applied to it. If you swiped a poisoned needle at, say, someone's plate armor, it won't have any effect. So I'd say armor is still a factor. Also, you need to break the skin as well and make sure poison enters the body, so touching with it isn't enough. Even though Therkla is probably wearing no better than leather armor, it still counts!

Be that as it may, the comic expressly calls it a Touch Attack. And it heavily implies that Lord Kubota is bypassing any Uncanny Dodge Therkla might have.

In this case, and in many others tbh, Plot > Rules.

But if that's not enuf for you, consider this: He calls it a Poisoned Ring, which might make it a magical attack of some sort. Also, and let's be honest here, the art style doesn't exactly show what that was. It could have been a tiny spike for all we know. In fact, it looks far more like a spike than a needle when looked at close up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0592.html)

So since the comic expressly calls it a Touch Attack, and it looks like something that could pierce most armor, I still think what is shown fits. :smallsmile:

PS: The attack, as shown in #592, also draws blood and leaves a wound, albiet a very tiny amount. I know that the art style is limited, but I think what is shown in #592 is consistant with leaving a scratch.

[Berserk Monk]

Are we just assuming Kubota rolled a natural 20?

Yes. Yes we are. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0059.html)

[Liwen]

Any contingency plan that is based on the 5% chance of rolling a 20 would be rejected by an evil mastermind such as Kubota. Aristocrats have the same bab progression as Rogues, making them an almost decent NPC class. We also know that he is fairly high level, extremely wealthy and smart...er than most. Considering his BaB contribution, the possibility of magically boosted chance of hit, the fact that Therkla was flat-footed, negating her dex bonus and the comic confirmed touch attack that negates armor, Kubota would only have failed rolling a 1. That's 5% chance of failure. When you introduce the plot factor and drama factor, the plan gets 100% chance of success.

Against all of this, the unconfirmed possibility that Therkla has the Uncanny Dodge special ability gets splattered so hard it's buried 6 feet underground instantly.

[Elfich]

If I may be so bold as to quote Samurai Cat:

"You keep mentioning this script. What is it?"
"It's the origin of the universe," Dobi-Wan replied, "the ultimate ground of our being. It creates us and permeates us, knock us off or lets us live, depending on what would make the best kind of ending"


That is how Kubota hit Therkla. the script was strong with him.

[Herald Alberich]

If I may be so bold as to quote Samurai Cat:

"You keep mentioning this script. What is it?"
"It's the origin of the universe," Dobi-Wan replied, "the ultimate ground of our being. It creates us and permeates us, knock us off or lets us live, depending on what would make the best kind of ending"


That is how Kubota hit Therkla. the script was strong with him.

*sigh* Yes, we all know that plot beats rules, and that what needs to happen will happen, but if that's the answer for everything, there's nothing to discuss.

Besides, the power of plot is limited by consistency and the willing suspension of disbelief. Kubota can kill Therkla because the plot requires it, but only if it make sense within the world as presented up to that point. Since the OP doubted this, we're discussing how that could be. We appear to have come up with satisfactory answers: the plot did not break the setting. We can say "ok, cool" and move on now.

For the record, the world as presented is one loosely based on the rules of D&D 3.5, with occasional deviations, emphasis on "occasional". We should at least attempt to see if a given situation follows the rules (or at least breaks them in a believable way, as with my prestige class hypothesis above) before giving up and saying "ok, plot wins here".

[FoE]

*sigh* Yes, we all know that plot beats rules, and that what needs to happen will happen, but if that's the answer for everything, there's nothing to discuss.

But Porthos did answer the question in a way that's consistent with the rules.

[Tass]

But Porthos did answer the question in a way that's consistent with the rules.

As Alberich said here:


We appear to have come up with satisfactory answers: the plot did not break the setting.