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sadie
2009-10-01, 10:29 AM
We all spend so much time staring at our character sheets that it's worth finding a good one. I'm not very experienced yet (I've played about 0.8 complete games, or six months), but I've been working on a design for character sheets that I think is an improvement on the defaults. I'd appreciate any slagging off constructive criticism you may have. If you're interested in contributing or modifying them, check out the project on Google Code (http://code.google.com/p/charactersheets/).

Also, check out the nascent Pathfinder conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163358) of these.

Download here
Dyslexic Studeos (http://charactersheets.minotaur.cc)

Features

Combat-related details grouped on one side, for less page juggling
Class-specific pages for spells and special abilities, including extra space for potions and scrolls
Designed for multiclassing, with space for class details like hit die, skill ranks and class skills
Designed for higher levels, with space for up to 3 5 classes, 4 attacks, 5 6 9 protective items, 4 11 12 extra skills and 7 favoured enemies
Space for conditional modifiers on attack, saves, AC etc
Familiar / Animal companion sheet
Wild Shape sheet for druids
Party funds sheet, for those parties whose first thought on approaching the dread doors to an arcane temple is "Can we pinch the hinges?"
Use of soft gray rather than black so pencil stands out better
Consistent visual cues to draw attention to the important bits
Dungeon master sheets: Party summary, NPC
Psionic specific sheets: Psicrystal, psionic classes
British spelling


Classes
To do - Done - Won't do

PHB1
Bard
Barbarian
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorceror
Wizard

Complete Adventurer
Ninja
Scout
Spellthief

Complete Arcane
Warlock
Warmage
Wu Jen

Complete Divine
Favoured Soul
Shugenja
Spirit Shaman

Complete Warrior
Swashbuckler
Hexblade
Samurai

PHB2
Beguiler
Dragon Shaman
Duskblade
Knight

Dungeonscape
Factotum

Psionics Handbook
Psion
Psychic Warrior
Soulknife
Wilder

Complete Psionic
Ardent
Divine Mind
Lurk

Heroes of Horror
Archivist
Dread Necromancer

Tome of Battle
Crusader
Swordsage
Warblade
Blank Martial Adept

Tome of Magic
Binder
Shadowcaster
Truenamer

Magic of Incarnum
Incarnate
Soulborn
Totemist

Eberron
Artificer

Unearthed Arcana
Totem Barbarian
Bardic Sage
Divine Bard
Savage Bard
Cloistered Cleric (see Extended Cleric)
Druidic Avenger
Thug
Monk: Fighting Styles
Paladin of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyrrany
Planar Ranger
Urban Ranger
Wilderness Rogue
Battle Sorcerer
Domain Wizard

Other
Extended Cleric
Blank Spellcaster (Sorcerer-style)
Blank Spellcaster (Wizard-style)

Prestige Classes
These will have to wait until after base classes.

Races of Destiny
Chameleon

valadil
2009-10-01, 10:43 AM
Purty! What did you use to make it?

I'm not a big fan of multipage sheets, but that's just personal preference. The only change I'd suggest is more checkboxes for prepared spells. I'd go up to three per spell.

Myou
2009-10-01, 10:56 AM
Just had a veeery quick look.

Very nicely made, I like the alignment box, it's like a compass, and the lines to link each class to the skill list are a feature all sheets should have. :3

Needs more space for classes - builds often have more than 3.
Needs more space for languages, since a high int + learning additional ones will quickly use up the space.
Don't list sizes, just let the player write their size in, because players aren't restrained to the middle 4.

lsfreak
2009-10-01, 11:21 AM
Since Max Dex only affects your Dex contribution to armor, it seems a little out of place to put it in with the rest of the abilities.

Random832
2009-10-01, 11:57 AM
I can think of some skills whose final modifier should be duplicated on the combat sheet. Tumble, for instance. Bluff for feint.

I'd like to second the question of what you made this in.

sadie
2009-10-01, 12:35 PM
Purty! What did you use to make it?

I'm not a big fan of multipage sheets, but that's just personal preference.

It's made in Illustrator CS3, which means it's actually a whole slew of files that I stitch together at the last minute.

I prefer single sheets too, but there just isn't a way to get everything on one sheet being cramped - which is the major thing wrong with our current sheets. People who aren't experienced are overlooking powerful spells, potions, etc because there isn't space to make it clear.

So I compromised on two sheets, one of which is double-sided with features for every class, the other class-specific. Fighters, barbarians, monks and rogues can make do without the extra sheet.

Animal companions needed a separate sheet because they can die independently of their owners. Granted they probably shouldn't, but our party had a wolf squished against the walls of a corridor by a nasty trap, and several other close calls (the wolf's name was "sheep" in elven, prompting comments of "mutton dressed as laminate").


Since Max Dex only affects your Dex contribution to armor, it seems a little out of place to put it in with the rest of the abilities.

Really? See, I said I wasn't very experienced. That gives me a few extra mm to play with. I'll use them to expand on the temp fields.

More classes: check. Though there's a limit to how many columns of boxes I can have without it looking ugly. Is 4 enough? 5? Any more than 5 is gonna look really ugly.

More languages: check (added 2 more at the expense of inventory).

More checks per prepared spell: check. Does it also need a field to say how many copies of a spell you've prepared?

valadil
2009-10-01, 12:52 PM
Here's another idea. How about item slots? This helps differentiate what's carried and equipped and it conveniently tells the player what slots are available.

I'm not sure if this is necessary, but I stole a nice representation of ac/touch/flat footed from another sheet I saw a while back. You can see it on the sheet I made a couple years ago (which is designed to look as much like the original as possible, but with added focus on skills and spaces for adding your own types of bonuses. It also shows the item slots mentioned above. Behold! (http://files.sagotsky.com/valadils_char_sheet-RC2.pdf)

Fenix_of_Doom
2009-10-01, 01:22 PM
British spelling

Well that's definitely an improvement.

Personally I rather like the max dex bonus next to your actual dex, where else are you going to put it? It would seem out of place near the armour section as well.

sadie
2009-10-01, 04:33 PM
...with added focus on skills and spaces for adding your own types of bonuses....

This may be characteristic of the way we've played so far, but I've found that I have a small number of fixed bonuses, but rather more conditional bonuses. Search +2 /stone, AC +4 /giants, Fortitude +2 / poisons etc. If you had a game with house rules that included extra modifers, I can see that design being useful. So I focused not on having lots of slots as on having open space in which to put conditional modifiers. Most calculations have a Misc field for extra.

I do like the symmetry of the three AC calculations. I shall have to try and squeeze a version of that in somehow, though I don't know how. Nobody really uses grapple do they? :smalltongue:

sadie
2009-10-01, 05:45 PM
New version uploaded! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf)



Personally I rather like the max dex bonus next to your actual dex, where else are you going to put it? It would seem out of place near the armour section as well.

The armour section is right next to the AC calculation, so if that max dex isn't used anywhere else then I don't think there needs to be a mirror on the other page. I've adjusted the field slightly to emphasise that relationship.

Are there any changes that need to be made to the class-specific features, like Turn Undead or Inspire Courage? What other classes do people most want me to add? I have reason to add a Factotum sheet at some point soon, and possibly a Hexblade.

Are there any skill-specific details I should include? Along the lines of Track, which adds some modifiers and conditions to the Survival skill, or Intimidate which has a size bonus.

Doc Roc
2009-10-01, 05:54 PM
Frankly, this is absolutely lovely. I'm deeply grateful!

Myou
2009-10-01, 06:12 PM
It looks really great. I kind of wish I used printed sheets so that I could fill this out.

Five classes should usually be enough, and looks just right to me. Some builds use more, but most don't, and too many would, as you say, spoil the sheet.

The number of languages should hopefully be enough most of the time, so on those rare ocassions when it's not, people ca just write between the lines.

Eldariel
2009-10-01, 06:14 PM
This seems great! Thanks for sharing. Few issues I'd see most of my characters having fitting on this:

I don't see a way to fit all the Knowledge-skills I need on these sheets; I often have ranks in 7-8 Knowledges (if only 1 in many to make trained checks) which simply exceeds the amount of space the sheet has. Add to that the Psionic skill set (here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRacesClassesSkillsSpells.htm)) along with the few other outliers from other sources and the skill space becomes insufficient (without overwriting some of the existing ones). I don't know if there's a good solution for this; of course it's possible to just type them on another sheet of paper or some such. Muddling up the present list to fit more empty slots doesn't seem optimal.

Same with languages, though that can be solved by typing multiples on the same line. Feats would also fall under this, with classes that gain many bonuses.

Finally, mayhap convert the "Protective Items"-slots to "Worn Items" to list all the slotted items the character is utilizing presently. There are 2xRing, 1xFeet, 1xArms, 1xHands, 1xHead, 1xFace, 1xThroat, 1xWaist, 1xTorso, 1xBody & 1xShoulders slots for a total of 12 different item slots, so it may be doable. I'd just imagine it could be convenient to list all the functional items in one place.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-01, 06:19 PM
It's a bit deficient if you've got a Cleric with more than 2 domains. I prefer Cloistered Clerics, who start with 3. PrCs like Church Inquisitor add bonus domains, too.

Vangor
2009-10-01, 06:34 PM
Terrific work, especially integrating everything towards the Skill Section.

A few additions I might make is a single Craft: Blank and a single Knowledge: Blank already included (potentially Profession: Blank), with those four blank skills still available; a Cloistered Cleric or Archivist could easily need more space, maybe a Bard, too. Track could probably be removed to a single box to check on Survival itself. May include Autohypnosis and Martial Lore, simply because those are two important skills for a whole subset of classes.

Change "Racial Bonus" to be merely "Racial" and "Synergies" to "Synergy" because this area with the wording seems crowded. As well, the faint "Conditional Modifiers" above "Favored Enemy" and "Armor Check Penalty" seems unnecessary. Further, I don't believe the box for "Ranks to spend" will be used, and am uncertain what the small boxes to check are for.

On the Attack Section you may want to try and condense the BAB and Grapple section to be one area. Further, the iterative attacks and the range and such seems to be using a great deal of space to simply be restrictive. I have a Thri-Keen Dervish with thirteen attacks who uses power attack during a dance of death, and this generally means I need a good deal of simply unobstructed space for multiple variations of full attack routines with the dance, with certain levels of power attack, etc., and using a variety of weapons who may have additional damage modifiers.

Plus, I would enjoy seeing you apply the same variability you did with the Armor Class section to Damage Bonus with regards to Strength, including the 1.5x modifier for two-handed weapons, and Power Attack, including the 2.0x modifier for two-handed weapons, since those are quite common and offer more mapping on the sheet. May want to shift the Health Section to the top of this second sheet due to the importance, alongside Initiative. Other thought is a flight speed and maneuverability as this is common enough.

Seemingly minor note that I think is important is you have Initiative, Defense, Saving Throws, Grapple, and perhaps more seem to be reversed with how those are read. Most of us, I imagine, are used to reading the total value on the left. Notice with Skills, where despite being in the middle of the page the eye is drawn there with its placement in the section, and I think this just needs a flip, not necessarily rearranging to be to the left margin but of the section.

Sounds like a great deal of criticism, but honestly that is about the best I have seen for the whole level and skill section, especially. The rest just needs a slight bit of refinement to include the mapping done elsewhere on your sheets and I would probably be using those in an instant. Terrific work, again.

Godskook
2009-10-01, 06:41 PM
Suggestion, instead of having check marks next to each skill for each class you have it as a class skill, make it one check box, with a small write-in for those who actually want to keep track of which class they get it from. For most, I don't think there'll be a need to track every class that grants each skill. That'll clean it up some, I should think.

Weezer
2009-10-01, 06:59 PM
I really like it, a massive improvement over the traditional sheet, thank you

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-01, 07:07 PM
This is awesome, just plain amazing.

Is there a chance you can make sheets for the martial adept or psionic classes?

sadie
2009-10-02, 09:16 AM
New version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Note that only the main two pages have changed.


the iterative attacks and the range and such seems to be using a great deal of space to simply be restrictive.

Weird builds aside, isn't 4 attacks likely to be enough for most characters?

For the range, I find the conversion between ft and sq quite helpful, though it depends on your style of play - purely verbal, whiteboards, software, etc.


Track could probably be removed to a single box to check on Survival itself.

Track has a required feat, racial/synergies and favoured enemy bonus that Survival doesn't, as well as conditional modifiers. I think that's enough to warrant a line.

I've managed to squeeze the skills section sufficient to turn 4 blank slots into 11. I hope that's enough.

Something to be aware of is that the tighter the layout gets, the more it will need to be printed (or zoomed in really close) in order to see properly. The overlapping boxes in the skill section don't look right on screen.


Plus, I would enjoy seeing you apply the same variability you did with the Armor Class section to Damage Bonus with regards to Strength, including the 1.5x modifier for two-handed weapons, and Power Attack, including the 2.0x modifier for two-handed weapons, since those are quite common and offer more mapping on the sheet.

I'm not sure I understand. There isn't space to add a damage calculation line for each weapon. Are you suggesting a common melee damage bonus calculation?


you have Initiative, Defense, Saving Throws, Grapple, and perhaps more seem to be reversed with how those are read. Most of us, I imagine, are used to reading the total value on the left.

Done. That's actually allowed me to use the stronger field headings for the primary fields, which works out nicely.


Suggestion, instead of having check marks next to each skill for each class you have it as a class skill, make it one check box, with a small write-in for those who actually want to keep track of which class they get it from. For most, I don't think there'll be a need to track every class that grants each skill. That'll clean it up some, I should think.

No, there is a need to know when levelling up whether your current class grants a class skill or not. Some DMs may be more forgiving than others, but I think having the data there is helpful.


Is there a chance you can make sheets for the martial adept or psionic classes?

I don't know much about those classes. What features would they have?


It's a bit deficient if you've got a Cleric with more than 2 domains. I prefer Cloistered Clerics, who start with 3. PrCs like Church Inquisitor add bonus domains, too.

That sounds like a separate class sheet to me - Extended Cleric? Before doing that I'll pass the sheet along to our party's cleric and see what he makes of it.


I have a Thri-Keen Dervish with thirteen attacks who uses power attack during a dance of death, and this generally means I need a good deal of simply unobstructed space for multiple variations of full attack routines with the dance, with certain levels of power attack, etc., and using a variety of weapons who may have additional damage modifiers.

....

er

...

I think that might be out of my jurisdiction. :smallsmile:

Mooch
2009-10-02, 09:31 AM
Excellent work, tagging this to watch for improvements.

Evil the Cat
2009-10-02, 01:22 PM
It looks pretty nice.

Under Defence, under size modifier, there is a x4 in there. I was wondering why?

sadie
2009-10-02, 01:44 PM
New version (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) - applied the same changes to class sheets and the Animal Companion sheet. Does anybody want to pay particular attention to the Turn Undead box and tell me if it's more or less clear than before?

Somehow, I've managed to get this version from 3MB down to 1MB. I really have no idea how :confused:

sadie
2009-10-02, 01:50 PM
Under Defence, under size modifier, there is a x4 in there. I was wondering why?

Ahem. Well spotted. It's the grapple that gets 4x the size modifier. I knew that. :thog:

DarkSetzer
2009-10-02, 01:57 PM
Excellent sheet, I've been looking for a good sheet to use ever since they took down Ema's sheets... And this one is great!

sadie
2009-10-02, 02:13 PM
It's a bit deficient if you've got a Cleric with more than 2 domains. I prefer Cloistered Clerics, who start with 3. PrCs like Church Inquisitor add bonus domains, too.

I'm not about to add pages for every single variant and prestige class out there, so can anybody think of a good generic way of supporting extra class features like this? Like a set of "extra feature" sheets that you can pick and choose from.... or something?

Eldariel
2009-10-02, 02:16 PM
I'm not about to add pages for every single variant and prestige class out there, so can anybody think of a good generic way of supporting extra class features like this? Like a set of "extra feature" sheets that you can pick and choose from.... or something?

Well, extra domains come in spades outside Core so just making room for few more Domains would seem like the best option (heck, Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) is in SRD (http://www.d20srd.com) which is almost core). Like, a class exists that grants a total of 10 bonus domains over 10 levels, and there are 5-6 other classes that grant bonus domains depending on the class's theme (Divine Oracle grants Oracle-domain, Church Inquisitor grants Inquisition-domain, etc.). Complete Divine alone has a lot of these.

Comet
2009-10-02, 02:20 PM
Nice work!

Still looks like a tax form, though.:smalltongue:
I imagine that is a problem that cannot be easily remedied, as 3.5 demands that the character sheet is chock full of sheer data. Little room for decorations and such.

But still, this is one of the best 3.5 sheets I've seen. Nice work, once again!

Barmacral
2009-10-02, 02:21 PM
Here's a page of WotC character sheets for a number of classes, to help you add the other classes you've expressed an interest in adding.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/charactersheets

BenTheJester
2009-10-02, 02:39 PM
Incredibly well done.

But alignment always seemed more logic looking like:

CG NG LG
CN N LN
CE NE LE

lsfreak
2009-10-02, 03:07 PM
Weird builds aside, isn't 4 attacks likely to be enough for most characters?
I'd get at least 5, for the sake of extra-attack effects like whirling frenzy or rapid shot. I'd also kind of like to see an extra line or two for weapons (i.e. Weapon, Weapon+1PowerAttack, Weapon+5PA, Weapon+FullPA, backup weapon, ranged) if you can manage to fit it in.


That sounds like a separate class sheet to me - Extended Cleric? Before doing that I'll pass the sheet along to our party's cleric and see what he makes of it.
If you can fit an extra domain or two in, that should cover it. Granted, clerics are the most crammed page as it is...

I might suggest adding an extra bonus spell for all levels. It's difficult but far from impossible to get enough Int to get you a 4th 1st-level and a 2nd 9th-level for a wizard, for example, even core-only, and outside of core you have things like anthrobats that make it (ch)easy.

It should also be noted that it's (relatively) trivial to hit 10 spells per day of lower levels (and Rings of Wizardry really mess up this kind of table). I'd at least suggest shifting potions and scrolls around to add more room for lower-level spells. Again, the cleric page is looking rather packed...

Expand the turnings checks, 12 won't be enough for a lot of people.

Smite calculations might be nice (who it effects, times/day, attack bonus, damage bonus, and a place to list extra effects like daze, trips, etc, though this latter part might be getting too picky on my part :smalltongue:).

I'm wondering if it might not be better to somehow have a "Cleric + Paladin" sheet be the same sheet, with an extra sheet for a clerics high-level spells and domains. There's quite a bit of crossover (low-level spells, smiting, turn undead), and the paladin mount can just use the animal companion page.

Evil the Cat
2009-10-02, 03:31 PM
For amusement, I will point out that you still have the x4 size error on the animal companion page.

Barmacral
2009-10-02, 04:09 PM
Incredibly well done.

But alignment always seemed more logic looking like:

CG NG LG
CN N LN
CE NE LE

I'd say switch the Lawful and Chaotic and you got it right.

sadie
2009-10-02, 06:58 PM
Still looks like a tax form, though.:smalltongue:

Don't start, I've battled enough of those recently :smallfurious:

sadie
2009-10-02, 07:02 PM
Incredibly well done.

But alignment always seemed more logic looking like:

CG NG LG
CN N LN
CE NE LE

I'd say switch the Lawful and Chaotic and you got it right.

Strange how people get a visual idea in their head of a purely abstract concept...

I was searching around for some symbols to describe alignments other than L C G E. Something like a halo versus horns? I can't settle on anything universal enough (probably because traditional imagery doesn't really differentiate the axes).

Cedrass
2009-10-02, 07:27 PM
It's really an amazing character sheet! I tried to do something good looking for a while, but couldn't pull it off, Illustrator isn't my friend it seems.

The only thing I would add is a spot where you can write all the magical items you are wearing on each body slot.

For reference, here they are: Face (goggles, lenses, masks, spectacles, third eyes), Head (circlets, hats, helmets, etc), Throat (Amulets, Brooches, Scaras, madallions, etc), Shoulders (Cloaks, mantles, etc), Body (Armor, robes), Torso (Shirts, Vestements, Tunics, Vest), Hands (Gauntlet and gloves), Arms (Armbands, bracers), Waist (Belts, girdles, sashes), Ring (twice) and Feet (Boots, shoes, etc).

Aside from this, you character sheet is perfect!

Edit: One last thing, would you mind if I modified it? I'm playing with Pathfinder and it's a bit different so the sheet would need some tweaking...

The Dark Fiddler
2009-10-02, 07:45 PM
I don't know much about those classes. What features would they have?


Tome of Battle classes would have Maneuvers and Stances known, and prepared (which could be handed with a check mark) and Psions would have Power Points and Powers Known.

Random832
2009-10-02, 07:51 PM
Strange how people get a visual idea in their head of a purely abstract concept...

I was searching around for some symbols to describe alignments other than L C G E. Something like a halo versus horns? I can't settle on anything universal enough (probably because traditional imagery doesn't really differentiate the axes).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3597/3490836242_6ca6f8bba3.jpg?v=0

or http://rlv.zcache.com/today_i_feel_chaotic_evil_magnet-p147360712078918451qjy4_400.jpg

sadie
2009-10-02, 07:56 PM
I'd get at least 5, for the sake of extra-attack effects like whirling frenzy or rapid shot.

Fine, I give up. The split Attack Bonus fields are gone. I'll keep the lozenge shape though, I think it's helpful to tell fields apart.


I'd also kind of like to see an extra line or two for weapons (i.e. Weapon, Weapon+1PowerAttack, Weapon+5PA, Weapon+FullPA, backup weapon, ranged) if you can manage to fit it in.

I can see what you're getting at - I've stumbled over the number things to add up at once sometimes - but I don't think there's room for them. As you barely begin to list, there are too many options.

How about a sort of Scratch area where you can prepare the current attack, adding up the pluses and minuses? That could be done in the space of one weapon, and most temp modifiers will be relatively stable within a single fight: Inspire Courage +n, Bull's strength +n, Enlarge +n, Favoured Enemy +n, etc. Only things like Power Attack vary per turn.


Expand the turnings checks, 12 won't be enough for a lot of people.

How about 20?


I might suggest adding an extra bonus spell for all levels. It's difficult but far from impossible to get enough Int to get you a 4th 1st-level and a 2nd 9th-level for a wizard, for example, even core-only, and outside of core you have things like anthrobats that make it (ch)easy.

What you've all failed to mention is the possibility that the bonus spell value is based on anything other than the basic stat, and that it needs a calculation.

I think I need to reflow the whole spells section. It was laid out much more generously than the main two pages, on the assumption that class-specific features would be less cramped. Shows how much I know. :smallredface: If it was done as tightly as the Skills section now is, that would leave much more space for other things.

I've actually never played a spellcaster, so I'm relying on people's input for what's needed.


It should also be noted that it's (relatively) trivial to hit 10 spells per day of lower levels (and Rings of Wizardry really mess up this kind of table). I'd at least suggest shifting potions and scrolls around to add more room for lower-level spells. Again, the cleric page is looking rather packed...

If the entire sheet I've given isn't enough, I can't imagine how people cope with their spell list shoved into a single narrow column.

It seems to me that spellcasters are divided into heavy (Sorceror, Wizard, Cleric, Druid etc) and light (Paladin, Ranger, Bard etc). I could keep fiddling the numbers until Russia wins the Ashes, so can you give me definitive numbers for how many spells of each level are realistically needed for each class?


Smite calculations might be nice (who it effects, times/day, attack bonus, damage bonus, and a place to list extra effects like daze, trips, etc, though this latter part might be getting too picky on my part :smalltongue:).

Smite is Paladin-specific, right?

An earlier version had extra effects in the health section, alongside dying and stable, with things like dazzled, deafened, stunned, charmed, pinned, incapacitated, dead. The list was getting stupid, so I added the free form effects section which also serves for buffs, curses etc.


The only thing I would add is a spot where you can write all the magical items you are wearing on each body slot.

The problem with location-specific worn items is that you need more of them - a dozen parts of the body, potentially more than one item on each - and most will be wasted. Something I wanted to make sure of was that each item had space to write its unique properties. Ten levels later, I'm not going to remember what the difference between a Cloak Of Resistence and a Ring Of Protection.


One last thing, would you mind if I modified it? I'm playing with Pathfinder and it's a bit different so the sheet would need some tweaking...

I tried doing a Pathfinder version early on, but I've never played it so I wasn't sure enough of the differences. For a start you'd lose the correlation between specific classes and class skills, since they just impart a +3, so the connecting lines and multiple columns of checks there are gone. You'd need to make space for CMB and CMD. Grapple can vanish.

I think I'm okay with people modifying them. Give me some time to figure out what I want to do with them, and I'll probably give you the Illustrator files. In fact, I guess I could make it a sort of open source project: let people contribute individual pages or modifications to them, while I collate and republish the whole thing? Would people be interested in that?

sadie
2009-10-02, 07:58 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/today_i_feel_chaotic_evil_magnet-p147360712078918451qjy4_400.jpg

:smallbiggrin:

My beard says I'm lawful evil.

Cedrass
2009-10-02, 08:33 PM
Just in case I wasn't clear enough, if I was and you don,t like the idea, it doesn't really matter, I'll have to modify it anyways so I'll just add it in.

This is what I had in mind with the "item slots".

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/106/magicitems.gif

It's only a little box where you can write what's equiped. That way you don't accidently wear items on the same spot (2 items on the Neck slot ie). Well I know my group needed something like that anyways!

But it's your sheet, and you have the final say on such things.


I think I'm okay with people modifying them. Give me some time to figure out what I want to do with them, and I'll probably give you the Illustrator files. In fact, I guess I could make it a sort of open source project: let people contribute individual pages or modifications to them, while I collate and republish the whole thing? Would people be interested in that?
I know I am!

sadie
2009-10-02, 09:10 PM
That's still space taken up for each slot, that doesn't detail the properties of the items.

How about I add a field on each worn item in the current layout that says where it's worn? Then you can scan down the list and see that there's already something in the Neck slot. How many such items do people typically wear? Is the 6 on the current layout enough?

Siosilvar
2009-10-02, 09:24 PM
Strange how people get a visual idea in their head of a purely abstract concept...

I was searching around for some symbols to describe alignments other than L C G E. Something like a halo versus horns? I can't settle on anything universal enough (probably because traditional imagery doesn't really differentiate the axes).

Every CRPG that is based off of D&D uses Lawful on the left, Chaotic on the right, Good on the top, and Evil on the bottom, which probably originated from the chart in the back of the AD&D Player's Handbook showing the alignment axes. Alternately, it could've come from the chart displaying the Outer Planes in a similar arrangement.

Cedrass
2009-10-02, 10:10 PM
How many such items do people typically wear? Is the 6 on the current layout enough?

Well the list in the picture I posted is taken from the Magic Item Compendium, and petty much every high level character I had had every slot occupied by an item. So I'd say 12 slots (including the armor). Yes it is a lot, but 3.5E characters are known to end up with the Christmas tree syndrome.

Aslo, I am not trying to dictate the way you should go with your sheet. Each group plays a different D&D, so you may find you sheet perfect as it is. It was only a suggestion based on what my group and I use on a character sheet.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-02, 11:58 PM
I recommend adding a second sheet just for spells so that sorcerers who take levels in sandshaper and such classes have additional space for spells known

Thespianus
2009-10-03, 02:59 AM
Awesome sheets! Nice work.

If we used sheets where we write in stats and stuff with pencil, this would be awesome.

Currently we all keep our separate .docx file for each character and update the sheet between sessions, turning pencil notes into Word-text for the next session.

But..well..very impressive! :)

Vangor
2009-10-03, 05:10 AM
Update looks even better, especially a fan of the mass of additional skill sections and how this is getting a ton of information without being cramped.

First, slight aesthetic note might be to simply remove "SKILL" above the list of Skills and shift "Max Ranks" to the left in the now less occupied corner. Gives the space need to move "Untrained" above the boxes and in line with the other items such as "Class Skills" and "Ranks".

For the Armour and Shield sections, can the "AC Bonus" be shifted toward the left as well, since this seems to be in a negligible spot where I might place "Type" or similar.

On the Worn Items section, could this be altered to include all twelve specific slots with a small note to say, for example, "Head", "Face", and "Shoulders"? This requires eleven (Body being Armour) slots which means twenty-two lines, but if those lines were scaled to be as wide as the Feats section, you've probably enough space for ten slots. Too, I see those gray bars below the Combat and Saving Throws sections and don't believe those would see much use compared to the space afforded for the eleventh slot and two other Miscellaneous items.

The Effects section with a few additional partitions could probably accommodate anyone who wanted to write those buffs.

For some reason, I had not quite realized all of the notes for what should be written in the lines are for the lines below. I know this to an extent while deliberately looking at sections, but just noting all of the forms, including character sheets, I have ever filled are indicating what should be written in the lines above. Now, what you have is vastly more economical for space, but just trying to imagine how to better demonstrate this such as lowering the notes to be obviously well below the line above. Hopefully this makes sense.

As well, I keep looking at the "Bonus Spells" set up under the Spells sections on the class specific sheets. I have no complaints, but something I am trying to ponder on is how to display the obvious addition of Bonus Slots where each additional modifier receives an additional slot for the next spell level in succession with a delay of four spell levels for the next additional spell slot. Obviously difficult to convey, probably impossible without being messy, but just trying to think of ways to even further improve upon what is already there.

Plus, does "Bonus Slots" seem more clear than "Bonus Spells"? I ask merely because Bonus Spells tends to refer to spells known rather than spells per day, but "Bonus Spells per Day" might appear crowded. Maybe changing the first spell level shown, whether Cantrip or Level 1, to be white would give the slight amount of space necessary if "Bonus Slots" is not more clear?

All I got right now. As I said previously, seems like a lot of criticism, but that is phenomenal. Mostly, I am trying to see how to improve this as much as possible because I want to use that for my next campaign :smallbiggrin:. Keep up the great work.

sadie
2009-10-03, 01:37 PM
Since quite a few people want it, I'm experimenting with body-part-specific slots. Everybody has a different idea of what the slots are - is there a definitive list? Or should I design it to be flexible?

Kosjsjach
2009-10-03, 01:44 PM
For all those people wanting an item-slot sheet, there's always this (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MagicItemRecordSheet.zip) (it's from the WotC site, don't worry).

Good job on the look of the sheet, though. :smallsmile:

Cedrass
2009-10-03, 01:51 PM
Plus, does "Bonus Slots" seem more clear than "Bonus Spells"? I ask merely because Bonus Spells tends to refer to spells known rather than spells per day, but "Bonus Spells per Day" might appear crowded. Maybe changing the first spell level shown, whether Cantrip or Level 1, to be white would give the slight amount of space necessary if "Bonus Slots" is not more clear?

This is something I thought too, and I think changing it to "Bonus Slots" is better.

As for magic items slots, this is the entry from the SRD:


* One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head
* One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes
* One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck
* One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
* One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
* One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists
* One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands
* One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)
* One pair of boots or shoes on the feet


This list and the Magic Item Compendium's list are exactly the same. So 12 slots is the way to go (characters can have 2 rings).

I also just noticed how you only have 4 squares for the attack bonus... Most warrior-types end up having 5 attacks and as such would require a fifth square.

Aside from those nitpicks, I just love the sheet!


For all those people wanting an item-slot sheet, there's always this (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MagicItemRecordSheet.zip) (it's from the WotC site, don't worry).

Good job on the look of the sheet, though. :smallsmile:

Yeah, but the thing is, I feel like it's only wasting paper to use such a big sheet for so little info...

sadie
2009-10-03, 02:07 PM
The Effects section with a few additional partitions could probably accommodate anyone who wanted to write those buffs.

I don't want to separate the items and their properties. Attempts to accomodate all 11 slots failed because the only way to do it is by stealing too much space from the feats and special abilities, or from the stats above.

Of the 11ish body slots, which are going to be used the most? I'm thinking I can get it to 8 slots without compromising other things, so if two of them are unlabelled and the others are the most commonly used - "Head, Throat, Body, Arms, Hands, Ring, Other, Other"?

sadie
2009-10-03, 02:15 PM
Nine. That's my final offer, and I'm cutting my own conditional modifiers.

BritishBill
2009-10-03, 02:38 PM
thats a pretty nice character sheet. You really did a good job. Its alot of pages and if you have to only print certain sheets so mass printing it for a group is out of the question, but other than that i think its a nice sheet.

sadie
2009-10-03, 03:16 PM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf)

I've got symbols for the alignments, which I hope will make it clearer than just letters. Random832's dice link was actually quite useful. And with any luck, the rotated table will end the discussion of what order makes most sense. :smallwink:

I've squeezed in 9 worn item slots, of which 6 are location-specific. I hope this is enough of a compromise to satisfy most people, since there's no way I can fit 12 items in there while also having the properties for each - which I think is important.

Attack Bonus lozenges are no longer split into 4, but the lozenge shape should help distinguish them from the million other boxes. They should be wide enough to split into the number of attacks people need.

There's an extra sheet at the end of the classes called "Cleric 2". This is for those potentially myriad forms of Cleric that need extra domains.

The spells table has been redesigned to be smaller, and to accomodate a fourth column of bonus spells.

On the Sorceror and Bard pages, the spells used check set has been moved from the spells table where it was making everything cramped, into the middle of the known spells list. I hope that's not too confusing. Also, is 10 (for Sorceror) or 6 (for Bard) likely to be enough?

Nobody's commented much on the Party Funds page. Are we the only players for whom the acquisition of a comfortable pension is higher priority than saving the world?


Its alot of pages and if you have to only print certain sheets so mass printing it for a group is out of the question, but other than that i think its a nice sheet.

Since the primary two pages are the same for everybody, followed by just one class-specific page, I think it would be quite quick to print a batch of them. Of for really large numbers, an appropriate balance of the pages.

sadie
2009-10-03, 05:40 PM
Can people tell me if I have something right. The bonus spell slots I have listed as a calculation based on the spellcasting stat (INT, CHA or WIS) plus a misc modifier. Is there actually a modifier there? If not, removing it would simplify the table and relieve the squeezed layouts. So what items are there in 3.5 that grant extra spells, and how do they interact with the bonus spells?

Vangor
2009-10-03, 10:14 PM
I don't want to separate the items and their properties. Attempts to accomodate all 11 slots failed because the only way to do it is by stealing too much space from the feats and special abilities, or from the stats above.

Was not talking about separating items and properties as I prefer Slot and Properties lines. What I am talking about are those gray lines, the ones which you seem to have removed beneath the Combat section which I assumed were for writing in literal buffs as in spells cast such as Bless. One still exists beneath the Saving Throws section.

However, I am of the mind with a slight resizing all eleven main slots (body is armor or robe, thus not necessary) can be shown. The reason I note this is because for every slot I can think of a few items I would use with any given character, and none of those are particularly more or less common, except perhaps vests. Decrease spacing slightly, remove the gray bar and lines beneath the Saving Throws section, and this should be able to include most. I would say the least common item I come across is vests...everything else is about as equivalent anymore.


The bonus spell slots I have listed as a calculation based on the spellcasting stat (INT, CHA or WIS) plus a misc modifier. Is there actually a modifier there? If not, removing it would simplify the table and relieve the squeezed layouts.

I suppose I don't know quite what you are asking. I know of no modifiers beyond spellcasting statistic which adds bonus spell slots; though items, feats, and classes can add bonus spell slots of certain levels, those would probably be included in the spells per day since they are less subject to change.

Kallisti
2009-10-03, 10:44 PM
There are feats that increase your effective casting stat for purposes of bonus spells. I know that much.

Your sheet is beautiful, and I'd love to see class pages for other classes outside of core.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-03, 11:05 PM
This is looking great, but do to your awesome revisions, my gestalt Sorceror/Favored Soul sheet just became obselete.

Again with recommendations for a second spells known sheet for classes with only limited spells like Sorcerers

sadie
2009-10-04, 11:13 AM
What I am talking about are those gray lines, the ones which you seem to have removed beneath the Combat section which I assumed were for writing in literal buffs as in spells cast such as Bless. One still exists beneath the Saving Throws section.

Those are for conditional modifiers. Things like +2 against Poison, +1 against Traps, +2 against goblins, etc. They need somewhere to exist. I've trimmed them down to the minimum already.


There are feats that increase your effective casting stat for purposes of bonus spells. I know that much.

Increase the stat in general, or just for bonus spells?


Your sheet is beautiful, and I'd love to see class pages for other classes outside of core.

Which classes do you most want to see? What features do they need?

I'm adding a Factotum and a Wild Shape sheet to the next version.


Again with recommendations for a second spells known sheet for classes with only limited spells like Sorcerers

I'm expanding the Sorceror's spell list by putting scrolls and potions on the left. I really want to work out precisely how many known spells and spells per day are actually needed.

Sorceror, L20

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <- level

9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 <- base spells known
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <- extra spells known (item/feat)?
9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 <- total spells known
10 8 8 8 6 6 6 6 6 6 <- adjusted known spell slots?

6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 <- base spells per day
4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 <- bonus spells (CHA modifier = 16)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <- extra spells per day (item/feat)?
10 10 10 10 9 9 9 9 8 8 8 <- total spells per day
12 12 12 10 10 10 9 9 9 7 <- adjusted spells per day check boxes?

sadie
2009-10-04, 11:54 AM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with Factotum and Wild Shape.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-04, 12:09 PM
Sorceror, L20

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <- level

9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 <- base spells known
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <- extra spells known (item/feat)?
9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 <- total spells known
10 8 8 8 6 6 6 6 6 6 <- adjusted known spell slots?

6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 <- base spells per day
4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 <- bonus spells (CHA modifier = 16)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <- extra spells per day (item/feat)?
10 10 10 10 9 9 9 9 8 8 8 <- total spells per day
12 12 12 10 10 10 9 9 9 7 <- adjusted spells per day check boxes?

Well, it depends on PrCs, but Sandshaper's a pretty good bet, a 1 lvl dip adds 43 spells known while Fiend-blooded adds 5 spells total. And depending on interpretation, Rainbow Servant gives all cleric spells known

Perhaps also add a Favored Soul sheet, which is mostly just copying the sorcerer sheet and renaming it Favored Soul, adding an Energy Resistance box and adding the alignment chart

sadie
2009-10-04, 05:07 PM
There's no way I can add the entire Cleric spell list to the Sorceror's sheet. :eek:

sadie
2009-10-04, 05:32 PM
Classes in published books:
EDIT: list moved to top of thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7037552&postcount=1).

It should go without saying, I'm not gonna do all of these myself. What are people's priorities? Be warned that I know jack about things like psionics, so I'm unlikely to be helpful in that area.

Also, I may pay attention to a few of the core prestige classes such as Blackguard, but not the obscure ones.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-04, 07:30 PM
Ohh, I would like the Tome of Battle classes up first...

And for some classes, it's little more changing the name of it i.e.

Archivist is basically a divine wizard

sadie
2009-10-04, 08:09 PM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with Favoured Soul and Monk.

How the splot did I forget the Monk? They're not a spellcaster, and I don't think I know a single player or DM who likes them, but they have plenty of unique abilities. Well, they're covered now.

I've also improved the Paladin sheet with sections for Smite Evil and Lay On Hands; and Ranger has Wild Empathy.

I brought the Animal Companion and Wild Shape pages up to the top so they don't get lost among the classes. Or should Wild Shape be grouped with Druid?

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-04, 08:31 PM
Wow, that's some fast updates

Small nitpickings,

Favored Souls use Wisdom for their save DCs and I don't think they suffer from Arcane Spell Failure

I don't think Rangers multiply their level by Charisma for Wild Empathy, just add Charisma to the check

I don't understand the Monk flurry bonus. I thought it started at -2 and leveled out at lvl 13

sadie
2009-10-05, 08:00 AM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now even more nitpicked.

For those of you who really do insist on having a whole dozen worn item slots, there is one way it could be achieved: by moving the inventory onto a separate sheet. I'd then move feats and special abilities onto the first page alongside skills, put worn items at the bottom of the right column with armour and shield to the left of them, and have scratch space under base attack for temp attack and damage calculations (things like power attack, inspire courage, flurry of blows etc) as well as a few more conditional modifiers. Personally I'm against that, as four pages is a lot for a standard character sheet, but what do other people think?

Vangor
2009-10-05, 08:45 AM
Personally I'm against that, as four pages is a lot for a standard character sheet, but what do other people think?

If this is truly the only way to achieve all eleven necessary slots...I wouldn't want four pages either. I imagine you are planning to effectively make two shorter sets for the slots side by side? I would be more against this than anything, simply because properties are not always as simple as a single bonus modifier and the added problem of the additional page.

I see, after printing this, the lines would become too small, thus I would say with what is currently there to include Head, Throat, Shoulder, Hand, Waist, Feet, Finger, and Finger absolutely. The other option would be amongst Torso, Face, or Wrist. Personally, I am inclined to say Face simply because goggles and masks are the most common for myself; however, a simple solution might be to include an additional "page" meant to be printed on the back of the second sheet with a continuation of the worn items for Torso, Wrist, and a few Others, or make the ninth slot an Other.

In terms of priorities for additional sheets, a single ToB sheet for Initator level, Disciplines available, Maneuvers Known, Maneuvers Readied, Stances Known, as well as sections for Maneuvers, Stances, Boosts, and Counters by level (akin to being set the same as Spells) might receive the biggest usage, followed by a (I know you said you lacked familiarity, though) single Psionic sheet for Manifest level, Power Points, Powers Known with a box for Augmentable would probably be useful enough.

Numerous other classes are simply iterations of the originals with slightly different class features which don't warrant separate sheets, though maybe an unmarked nine spell level sheet would suffice to cover the vast majority. Warlock, however, is different enough, and I know used by a few people. My hope would be Artificer, but I am rather doubtful since the class has as many class abilities as a Monk, a six 'spell' level sheet, reserve crafting points, and various other features which would be awesome to see and plausible but complicated if you aren't familiar, plus you would want various quick slots for Wands and additional Rings.

And goes without saying, nice work. Printing one out for my most recent character.

Bob790
2009-10-05, 10:31 AM
One of the players in the game I'm DMing is going to try out this character sheet tonight. If it proves useful to him I may suggest (or insist) that the rest of the party switch to using it.

It looks to be one of the best designs I've seen. But I'll wait until I've seen it used in anger before I pass final judgement on it.

sadie
2009-10-05, 11:55 AM
I'm only trying the sheet out in a real game for the first time tonight myself. I'm not even going to make the other members of my party move to it yet.


a simple solution might be to include an additional "page" meant to be printed on the back of the second sheet with a continuation of the worn items for Torso, Wrist, and a few Others, or make the ninth slot an Other

The worn items are on the combat page because their properties may affect the flow of combat - a +2 bonus save against golems, say, is exactly what you need to know when fighting golems, without having to scramble and check other pages. That's the motivation behind the whole combat page. Moving things off it defeats that.


In terms of priorities for additional sheets, a single ToB sheet for Initator level, Disciplines available, Maneuvers Known, Maneuvers Readied, Stances Known, as well as sections for Maneuvers, Stances, Boosts, and Counters by level (akin to being set the same as Spells) might receive the biggest usage, followed by a (I know you said you lacked familiarity, though) single Psionic sheet for Manifest level, Power Points, Powers Known with a box for Augmentable would probably be useful enough.

.... I has no idea what you just said (so here's me with a pancake on my head (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/05/18/cat-macros-by-tom-smith/)).


maybe an unmarked nine spell level sheet would suffice to cover the vast majority

Now that does make sense.

DrGonzo
2009-10-05, 12:24 PM
Great job on the sheet! I'm going to try it out on thursday, and I'll certainly let you know how that went.
Imo it's the best I've seen in a long time.

- DrGonzo

Vangor
2009-10-05, 04:09 PM
The worn items are on the combat page because their properties may affect the flow of combat - a +2 bonus save against golems, say, is exactly what you need to know when fighting golems, without having to scramble and check other pages. That's the motivation behind the whole combat page. Moving things off it defeats that.

Fully understood, hence why the compromise I was saying. I do not see switching Feats and Special Abilities, which may too affect combat, to the first sheet when we're speaking of a potential mass of both compared to the addition of perhaps three items, especially if necessitating an additional sheet. Thus, the current sheets are kept exactly as is, the only difference is the most commonly used item slots replace those nine. In addition, those slots not included could merely be an additional PDF page meant to be printed on the back of the sheet as a continuation of the Worn Items section; I mean, nothing is lost because those few slots don't exist on the Combat Page as is, but having those on the page, if on the reverse side, is still beneficial.


.... I has no idea what you just said

Tome of Battle base classes use a specific system for initiating maneuvers, similar in concept to spellcaster progression. Maneuvers themselves are subdivided into nine disciplines, and all nine disciplines possess nine levels of advancement via initiator levels, and maneuvers which are divided into four types: stances, strikes, boosts, and counters. To access higher levels of disciplines, you need what is known as an initiator level, similar to a progression in a spell list.

Psionics has a Manifester level, separate Power lists, Powers Known, Power Points to fuel Powers Known, and enough of the Powers Known are Augmentable with the usage of additional Power Points. All fairly straightforward, more akin to using mana with the d&d Sorcerer.

If you want me to throw you a PM on how to set this up, just say. I do not know Warlock, nor (just thought) Incarnum, which are different enough to warrant separate sheets, as well.

PId6
2009-10-05, 05:02 PM
This looks amazing! Definitely switching to these for my future characters.

A few things:

Small error: Factotum's inspiration is per encounter, not per day. Also need more inspiration checkboxes (Font of Inspiration).

Paladin: maybe a more generic alternate sheet for Paladins of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyranny? (Other alignments, Smite Evil or Good, Deadly Touch or Lay On Hands, and that's about it.)

A temporary HP box might be useful, and "Wounds" doesn't seem like it needs all that much space.

Not sure about adding a "Current Quests/Objectives" box to the party page, but that might make it a bit too much like an MMORPG. :smallbiggrin:

Other than that, I would love a sheet for warlock. They only need a few things:

* List of class features similar to monk's, with a column telling you how much Eldritch Blast damage you get from levels.
* A specific line to write your Eldritch Blast damage (certain items/PrCs can raise the damage).
* Checkboxes (similar to ranger's Favored Enemy) for energy resistances. So two columns (5 and 10) along with five rows (acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic).
* A checkbox to record whether you've used your Fiendish Resilience for the day.
* Slots for invocations (see below).
* Some item slots for magic items like scrolls and wands, which warlocks are sure to make heavy use of, along with a small space to write charges remaining.

Invocations are all pretty much at-will, so no need to worry about recording uses. There are four levels (least, lesser, greater, dark) and you naturally get 3 of each level, though there are ways to get more. They also come as Blast Shape, Eldritch Essence, or just regular invocations. The former two modifies your Eldritch Blast while the latter just acts as an at-will Spell Like Ability. I'd imagine having 4-5 slots of each level with checkboxes listing whether they are Blast Shape or Eldritch Essence.

Hope this helps!

Bob790
2009-10-05, 06:31 PM
I'm only trying the sheet out in a real game for the first time tonight myself. I'm not even going to make the other members of my party move to it yet.

Same game, same session as it turns out. :smallredface: If there's time I'll try to move the rest of the group on to it for some proper field testing by next week.

sadie
2009-10-05, 06:34 PM
Factotum's inspiration is per encounter, not per day.

True, but the only player I know who intends to play a Factotum has agreed with the DM that that's really splotting stupid, and is going to use an adjusted number per day (if the DM lets him use the class at all). I've renamed the fields to just "Inspiration Points" and "Inspiration Used" so it fits either method.


Other than that, I would love a sheet for warlock. They only need a few things:

* List of class features similar to monk's, with a column telling you how much Eldritch Blast damage you get from levels.

I really don't like doing those tables because I'll end up just rewriting the books myself. Those tables aren't designed for levelling up purposes, they're just there as a reminder of the abilities you could be using right now - to counter the inexperienced player's problem of "Oh, I didn't realise I could do that." In fact, I might even remove the other data columns from the Monk sheet just to reinforce this.

I shall take a look both at Warlock and at the Tome of Battle classes and see if I can figure them out. Psionics I'm just going to wave a leek at until such point as I'm ready to open source the Illustrator files and start accepting submissions - and that's not going to be until we've battle tested the core sheets.

sadie
2009-10-05, 06:43 PM
Same game, same session as it turns out. :smallredface: If there's time I'll try to move the rest of the group on to it for some proper field testing by next week.

D'oh. I really need to start reading before replying.

sadie
2009-10-05, 07:56 PM
Looking at the list at the top of this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7056484&postcount=62), are there any classes that definitively don't need sheets of their own? I'd expect some of the non-magical classes, like Ninja or Swashbuckler?

sadie
2009-10-05, 09:38 PM
I do not see switching Feats and Special Abilities, which may too affect combat, to the first sheet

That's what the Combat Abilities section is for - extracting from both Feats and Special Abilities those that can be invoked in combat, such as Rage or Cleave or Sneak Attack. That doesn't include those that simply grant a bonus to some value, since that can typically be included in the calculation space (as Misc if nothing else).

DragoonWraith
2009-10-05, 09:38 PM
I'm not sure if any of them don't need their own page, but you called Complete Warrior "Complete Hexblade", heh.

As for the sheets themselves, they're beautiful!

Other than that... I consider having a space for all 12 item slots pretty important, I find it kind of strange that you're not prioritizing that higher. I mean, it's obviously your sheet to do with as you please, but filling all 12 slots happens to just about every 3.5 character ever.

Of course, most sheets don't even have that list and instead just include it as part of the regular inventory with a "Slot" line, so *shrug* Still an improvement.

Other than that, not every race gets Common as an Automatic Language (off the top of my head, Kobolds don't), so I wouldn't have that pre-filled in. I could see campaigns that revolve around a particular race or region not using Common, for whatever reason.

sadie
2009-10-05, 11:08 PM
I'm not sure if any of them don't need their own page, but you called Complete Warrior "Complete Hexblade", heh.

Ahem. Quick retcon. No I didn't.

sadie
2009-10-06, 12:22 AM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with Archivist, Dread Necromancer and everybody's absolute favourite class, Blank!

I had to be a bit creative with the math for the Archivist - attempting to describe the encounter knowledge bonus in normal math was really confusing, not least because you'd be rounding up for a change, so I used a sort of switch thing instead. I hope it makes sense to people who aren't me. And for the record, I'll never fall for "it's just like X with the name changed" again.

The blank page is for the myriad unknown spellcaster types out there, but can also be used as a second page of spells for those freaky power builders among you who don't have space on the normal sheets.

I've added a first stab at a spell book for a Wizard and similar classes like Archivist that accumulate spells. Each spell has room for its name, school, material or XP cost, and a brief description of what it does. I don't know whether it provides too much or too little space for each one - I suspect it depends on the player. The idea is that you would print out several of these sheets, enough to cover all your spell levels.

Whammydill
2009-10-06, 07:28 AM
Sadie.....

+INFINITE internetz! :smallcool:

This sheet is mind-numbingly awesome, and it gets better with every iteration! I was impressed with Sunrain and Madirishman, but this blows them away!

Philaenas
2009-10-06, 09:07 AM
Looking at the list at the top of this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7056484&postcount=62), are there any classes that definitively don't need sheets of their own? I'd expect some of the non-magical classes, like Ninja or Swashbuckler?

Scout, Swashbuckler and mebby samurai and knight don't really need any :) Heck, samurai would be a total waste of time anyway :smallsmile:.

Evil the Cat
2009-10-06, 09:10 AM
For Dread Necromancer (and Beguiler and Warmage if/when you do pages for them) Their spell list is mostly fixed. You could probably put in their fixed spells, and just leave a couple of blank lines at each level in case of advanced learning.

Overall, very nice!. My newest character will be on one of your sheets.

sadie
2009-10-06, 09:28 AM
For Dread Necromancer (and Beguiler and Warmage if/when you do pages for them) Their spell list is mostly fixed. You could probably put in their fixed spells, and just leave a couple of blank lines at each level in case of advanced learning.

But they don't automatically know all of them, right? There are 12 level 1 spells in that Dread Necromancer list, and even at high levels only 6 + 2 of them are known. So even though the list is small, it's still variable.

Dread Necromancers don't have a level 0 do they?

sadie
2009-10-06, 09:37 AM
Scout, Swashbuckler and mebby samurai and knight don't really need any :) Heck, samurai would be a total waste of time anyway :smallsmile:.

Knight looks to have a few interesting features (and calculations) that would justify a sheet. The rest are crossed out, thanks.

lsfreak
2009-10-06, 01:54 PM
But they don't automatically know all of them, right?

They know their entire spell list, as do beguilers and warmages. Dread necros don't have level zero spells but beguilers and warmages do.

Typewriter
2009-10-06, 05:00 PM
Wow...saw this post at work, but couldn't get to it, so I made a mental note to check it out, expecting to think that all the hype was silly, and I must say that seeing your product has launched both of my feet firmly into my mouth with a force that may never be undone.

So...uh...nice job.

DragoonWraith
2009-10-06, 05:09 PM
But they don't automatically know all of them, right? There are 12 level 1 spells in that Dread Necromancer list, and even at high levels only 6 + 2 of them are known. So even though the list is small, it's still variable.

Dread Necromancers don't have a level 0 do they?
Beguilers, Dread Necromancers, and War Mages automatically know all spells from their list that they are a high enough level to cast, plus 3-5 extra spells through the Advanced Learning feature.

Ashes
2009-10-06, 05:24 PM
Looks cool.

I spotted an error though. On the Dread Necromancer sheet, it says evervating touch, instead of enervating.
Might want to fix that.

sadie
2009-10-06, 06:18 PM
Wow...saw this post at work, but couldn't get to it, so I made a mental note to check it out, expecting to think that all the hype was silly, and I must say that seeing your product has launched both of my feet firmly into my mouth with a force that may never be undone.

So...uh...nice job.

That's a mental image worth having. Thanks :biggrin:

So, the Dread Necromancer has their standard list, plus up to 5 other spells of (for the sake of the sheet) any level?

Evil the Cat
2009-10-06, 06:34 PM
Dread Necromancer, Warmage, and Beguiler automatically know all spells on their lst. Every few levels they get an additional one known from other lists. people playing them also have a tendency to pick up feats such as arcane disciple to get extra known, but it would be very unusual to have one that knows more than 4-5 extra spells of any given level.

Cedrass
2009-10-06, 09:19 PM
That's a mental image worth having. Thanks :biggrin:

So, the Dread Necromancer has their standard list, plus up to 5 other spells of (for the sake of the sheet) any level?

Pretty much. Though you'd only need one or two free space for level 9 spells.

sadie
2009-10-07, 07:26 AM
I was impressed with Sunrain and Madirishman, but this blows them away!

Ooh, I hadn't seen Madirishman's before. It has some very nice touches. I like that the Base Save field is split for multiclassing. Pity I don't have any space to half-inch replicate that.

Thespianus
2009-10-07, 07:45 AM
Can I ask about touch spells and ranged touch spells?

I guess a Wizard could write in his touch spell attack bonus and his ranged touch spell attack bonus in the Attack-section on the Combat sheet, but
the range entry is different for different spells, and ..well.. I guess it wouldn't be much of a problem really...

Soo..uhm....How about making a separate combat sheet for casters? *dives for cover*

The sheets are so good now, it makes me blush to ask for this. :)

Also, is there any tool available to edit PDF-files like these? My handwriting is really lousy, and I would love to be able to write my stats and stuff into a separate copy of the files with computer font rather than my lousy handwriting.

sadie
2009-10-07, 08:16 AM
I'll be trying the sheets out with our local wizard next week, so I'll ask him how that would work and whether it's worth it.

Professional copies of Acrobat have all sorts of tools for adding notes to PDFs. Would that work for you?

In fact, since some people have commented that they prefer to use electronic sheets rather than paper ones, would there be interest in adapting these sheets into PDF Forms? I don't know much about PDF Forms yet, so it would take a while.

Thespianus
2009-10-07, 08:18 AM
Professional copies of Acrobat have all sorts of tools for adding notes to PDFs. Would that work for you?
Well, I'm a dedicated gamer, but.. I'm not gonna buy Acrobat for that :) Thanks, though. I appreciate the info.


In fact, since some people have commented that they prefer to use electronic sheets rather than paper ones, would there be interest in adapting these sheets into PDF Forms? I don't know much about PDF Forms yet, so it would take a while.
It would be awesome, but... I totally understand the work you're pouring into this stuff, and I don't want to add to your burden. Awesome so far!

sadie
2009-10-07, 08:34 AM
Does anybody else know about PDF Forms and want to experiment?

sadie
2009-10-07, 09:33 AM
A brief experiment with PDF forms shows that it's possible but would be very time consuming. I won't bother.

Bakkan
2009-10-07, 02:11 PM
I love this, you've done an amazing job. I especially like separating class skills by character class and the class-specific sheets. I will be taking this sheet to my next session.

A minor suggestion: to allow for Wizards who scribe lots of scrolls and manage to have a massive number of spells prepared per day (Focused Specialist + Ring of Wizardry + huge Int), I would move the Scrolls and Potions boxes on the Wizard sheet into the left column, lengthen the scrolls section to fill up that column, and add more rows to the prepared spells section. My recommendation would be: 12 slots for 1st- and 2nd-level spells, 10 slots for 3rd- through 7th- level spells, and 8 slots for 8th- and 9th- level spells. The 0th-level spells are fine at 8, as there are fewer ways of increasing cantrips per day.

sadie
2009-10-07, 05:13 PM
A minor suggestion: to allow for Wizards who scribe lots of scrolls and manage to have a massive number of spells prepared per day

Good point. It's done.

New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with Warlock, and a better Dread Necromancer.

I've added a line between the fixed skills and the blank spaces for other skills. This mostly serves the same job as the zebra table, giving the eye something to latch onto to make following lines across easier.

I've added little icons for the size difference field. Partly just to be decorative, but more importantly so you know which way round the field is (I can never remember). Can people chech if the maths for size difference is correct in all the places it's used?

After using the sheet in practice, I also made the labels on the alignment field black so that the shape of the field stands out more when seen blurrily through dirty glasses and a litre of coffee.

Random832
2009-10-07, 05:51 PM
I like what you've done with the bonus spells - what about the same for the base spells per day?

You could arrange it like this (wizard pictured)
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4175/wizardr.png (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/wizardr.png/)

sadie
2009-10-07, 06:35 PM
There really isn't space for that - it would probably need to be six columns wide, depending on the class. Plus the information's only needed at level up and easily found in the books, so it serves little role on the sheet. The bonus spells group is there to make it easier to apply given the number.

PId6
2009-10-07, 06:52 PM
I like how warlock is done, but two things:


The "spell level equivalent" thing with Eldritch Blast is errata'd out, so it's always a 1st level SLA now (unless you apply essences).
A few more invocation lines? You can easily expand your number of invocations known, and there's plenty of room on that page, so it shouldn't hurt to add 3-4 more.

Otherwise it looks perfect!

sadie
2009-10-07, 07:38 PM
I like how warlock is done, but two things:


The "spell level equivalent" thing with Eldritch Blast is errata'd out, so it's always a 1st level SLA now (unless you apply essences).
A few more invocation lines? You can easily expand your number of invocations known, and there's plenty of room on that page, so it shouldn't hurt to add 3-4 more.


Done. New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with added Wu Jen. And that's another book I can mark off the list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7056484&postcount=62)!

Thespianus
2009-10-08, 12:15 AM
A brief experiment with PDF forms shows that it's possible but would be very time consuming. I won't bother.
:smallbiggrin:

It's cool. Awesome work, anyhow, and thanks for the attempt. :smallsmile:

Vangor
2009-10-08, 01:36 AM
Been meaning to mention on the Archivist, I don't believe I have ever heard of Archivists receiving a Specialist Spell.

Otherwise, everything else looks fantastic. I am still pressing for a sheet for ToB and another for Psionics; two sheets for ten base classes which are next most common after core, and covers a mass of PrCs.

sadie
2009-10-08, 05:56 AM
Been meaning to mention on the Archivist, I don't believe I have ever heard of Archivists receiving a Specialist Spell.

Otherwise, everything else looks fantastic. I am still pressing for a sheet for ToB and another for Psionics; two sheets for ten base classes which are next most common after core, and covers a mass of PrCs.

Tome of Battle I can probably try soonish, but I'm unlikely to do psionics. Can you scribble out (on paper, in Paint, in Word, in letters twelve feet high on the wall of the Chrysler building, anything) what features you think these sheets should have? Or do you have Illustrator (or Corel or something) and want to try the sheet yourself?

sadie
2009-10-08, 06:58 AM
...and covers a mass of PrCs.

While I'm resolutely not bothering with Prestige classes any month soon (with the exception of the blank spellcaster and extended cleric), what approach do people think I should take with them? Obviously there's no way a single human being can do them all, so the choices are probably between generic sheets like the extended cleric, or open source so people can contribute their own. Or, of course, both.

sadie
2009-10-08, 12:10 PM
Ahem. New version (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) with a slight mistake fixed. If you didn't notice, great.

What do people make of the chinese characters used on the Wu Jen? I've mostly steered away from adding purely decorative items to the sheets, except where they also add functional meaning. But it seemed that the sort of player likely to choose a Wu Jen would also appreciate touches like that. Are there any other non-intrusive decorations people can suggest?

Random832
2009-10-08, 12:27 PM
Well, for PRCs there's a distinction between which ones have their own spellcasting (e.g. Assassin), and which advance the spellcasting of a base class or don't have spellcasting.

For casting-advancing PRCs you could simply write the combined level on the level slot of the caster sheet (incidentally, unless it's a british thing, you spelled sorcerer wrong)

It's not clear to me how you use the spontaneous caster sheets. Are the boxes under "known spells" for keeping track of how many known you get, or how many per day you have used (and in either case, how do you do the other?)

I noticed you have a box to check for a psicrystal, but no psionic sheets. (I see you said you don't plan to do psions - why not?)

Bob790
2009-10-08, 01:07 PM
It's not clear to me how you use the spontaneous caster sheets. Are the boxes under "known spells" for keeping track of how many known you get, or how many per day you have used (and in either case, how do you do the other?)

I think the "known spells" is for keeping track of which spells you know. The check boxes for marking off how many you've used and the standard style boxes on the left for keeping track of how many you can have.


I see you said you don't plan to do psions - why not?

I also see a full description of why he doesn't plan to do so in almost every place he has said it. (ie he doesn't know anything about psions, why don't you tell him what you need on the sheet and/or give him a rough design)

PId6
2009-10-08, 05:56 PM
What do people make of the chinese characters used on the Wu Jen? I've mostly steered away from adding purely decorative items to the sheets, except where they also add functional meaning. But it seemed that the sort of player likely to choose a Wu Jen would also appreciate touches like that. Are there any other non-intrusive decorations people can suggest?
It looks awesome, it's non-intrusive, it's small enough not to waste much ink, and it fits the class very well. I'm not sure where else decorations would work as well as that, but that one definitely should be there.

As for psionic characters, you just need to write:

Manifester Level (same as caster level)
Maximum Power Level Known (highest spell level you can cast, basically)
Powers Known (similar to sorcerer spells known, but you can pick from any level when you gain new powers, so don't separate into distinct levels but include a line to say what level it is and how much PP the power costs)
Power Points (basically mana from videogames if you're not familiar with it; just include a box for base PP [from classes], one for bonus PP [from ability score, like bonus spells], one for total PP [sum of previous two], and one for current PP [to track how much you've spent per day]; the template from Mythweavers is fairly good)
Save DCs of your powers at each level (pretty much the same 1-9 as for spellcasters)

This is just fine for psychic warrior. For psions, you need an additional line to write your discipline (same as wizard specialization). For wilders, you need a line to write Wild Surge bonus and maybe a few other class features, but those aren't really required. Ardent just needs a few mantles (same as cleric domains, basically).

Milskidasith
2009-10-08, 06:01 PM
I dislike the way the alignment box is set up... having it diagonally seems to imply that Lawful Good is the "best" alignment (at the top), and that chaotic is the "worst" alignment (being lower).

Then again, maybe I'm just used to a traditional 3x3 square.

Random832
2009-10-08, 06:20 PM
It also puts Lawful Evil on the same level as Chaotic Good

Aren't Power Points a single pool, rather than being per class? It should probably go on the main page (or maybe the combat page) then

sadie
2009-10-08, 06:25 PM
I dislike the way the alignment box is set up... having it diagonally seems to imply that Lawful Good is the "best" alignment (at the top), and that chaotic is the "worst" alignment (being lower).

Then again, maybe I'm just used to a traditional 3x3 square.

Something's always going to be top and something's always going to be bottom. To me the diagonal alignment is less elitest as it acknowledges the dichotomy of the two axes, but I'll stop waffling like that in case I end up with a meaningless PhD.

The real reason is that putting it diagonally gave me more space to fit the icons in. It also makes it stand out more compared to the hundreds of other checkboxes.

sadie
2009-10-08, 08:36 PM
New Version! (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf) Now with Tome of Battle classes: Crusader: Swordsage and Warblade. This is just a first stab at the ToBs, and I don't really understand them, so I'm sure those who know them can suggest improvements.

One thing the ToB sheets don't have is a note of which domains disciplines are available to each class. The eight disciplines strike me as a possible opportunity for decoration similar to the Wu Jen, if some emblem could be found for each. They clearly have unique characters, as evidenced by the special swords. Any ideas? "Setting Sun" is easy enough, but what emblem could be used for "Iron Heart" or "Devoted Spirit"?

The file's getting quite big now, and it's only going to keep growing. I also hope to add some pages specifically for DMs (with my DM's help). The time will probably come when I decide to split the file into three: Core, Extended and DM.

Thanks for the info on Psionics. It still will take me a while to get round to them, so anything else you can add - like a sketch of ideas - would be good.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-10-08, 10:35 PM
Perhaps, you could put a silouette of each of the swords next to the discipline? Kinda hard to tell the difference without color though.

DragoonWraith
2009-10-08, 11:48 PM
The martial adepts should have the Initiator Level listed. With multiclassing, it won't be equal to their class level.

Vangor
2009-10-09, 12:04 AM
While I'm resolutely not bothering with Prestige classes any month soon (with the exception of the blank spellcaster and extended cleric), what approach do people think I should take with them?

I was merely saying PrCs for a motivation on doing ToB and Psionic classes, since many will continue on to PrCs who raise Initiator or Manifester level, thus both sheets would see further use than many others.

I did try to write down a ToB sheet, but you did an impressively better job than I as I completely forgot about Crusaders readying and being granted, which made my attempt obsolete and generic. My friend printed off a Crusader and we'll be doing a Swordsage quickly. Crusader is perfect as far as I can tell.

For Swordsage, I would include Quick to Act with check boxes for +1-5, as well as the Wisdom based AC Bonus (for the Monk, too). Beneath the Discipline Focus features, include short descriptions too, such as Weapon Focus has (+1 to hit Discipline Weapons), Insightful Strikes is (+Wis Mod to damage on Discipline Strikes), and Defensive Stance is (+2 to Saves in Discipline Stance). Not sure if you want to include check boxes for obtaining Evasion, Improved Evasion, Sense Magic, and Dual Boost. Sense Magic might be useful with a brief explanation of (Identify Weapon or Armor on D20 + Swordsage Level = DC10 + Item CL), or similar.

For Warblade, similar. Obviously don't need to include Bonus Feats or similar, might want check boxes for obtaining Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and Stance Mastery. For the brief descriptions, Battle Clarity is (+Int Mod on Reflex when not Flat-footed), Battle Ardor is (+Int Mod on Confirm Threat), Battle Cunning is (+Int Mod to damage against Flanked or Flat-Footed), Battle Skill is (+Int Mod to oppose Bullrush, etc.,), and Battle Mastery is (+Int Mod to hit and to damage on AoO).

Maybe include a notation towards the top of Discipline Focus features and, I guess call them, Warblade Battle features of all the bonuses being Insight.

Consideration for all three I just thought of is the manner for readying and recovering maneuvers detailed towards the beginning.

I am not positive the specific Disciplines potentially available to Crusaders, Swordsages, and Warblades necessarily needs be included, simply because the information is too fundamental. I believe I mentioned including this previously, but imagining the page now with full details I fear this may become crowded for perhaps the Swordsage, which you wouldn't want.

Very well done, as said, we have one sheet printed for the Crusader) and I believe a Swordsage will be joining us. Another set of people should be converting six players (Archivist, Warblade, Swordsage, Druid, Wizard, Bard, with a Warlock cohort) to the new sheets come Saturday, so I will let you know how this goes. I really wish I were more graphically capable because I hate suggesting on and on without being able to assist or truly demonstrate what I mean.

sadie
2009-10-09, 12:05 AM
The martial adepts should have the Initiator Level listed. With multiclassing, it won't be equal to their class level.

So what is it? The sum of martial adept levels? The total level? The ECL?

lsfreak
2009-10-09, 12:06 AM
So what is it? The sum of martial adept levels? The total level? The ECL?

Marital adept levels + 1/2 all other levels.

Vangor
2009-10-09, 12:07 AM
Initiator Level is all Martial Adept Base Classes, all ToB Prestige Classes except Bloodstorm Blade, and half of all other Classes. Forgot to include this in my previous reply, glad Dragoon caught this. IL does influence a few variable effects.

sadie
2009-10-09, 12:11 AM
Not sure if you want to include check boxes for obtaining Evasion, Improved Evasion, Sense Magic, and Dual Boost.

I've avoided listing feats and abilities that are catered for elsewhere, unless they have some calculation that's worth making space for. Evasion is just Evasion, whether it comes from a Martial Adept or anywhere else.

Still, the ToB sheets have enough space left on them that I could probably include a Bard-like level progression summary - at least the Cliff Notes. It would obviously not replace the book.

Vangor
2009-10-09, 12:16 AM
I've avoided listing feats and abilities that are catered for elsewhere, unless they have some calculation that's worth making space for. Evasion is just Evasion, whether it comes from a Martial Adept or anywhere else.

Not particularly for or against including the list of such features, merely noted this happening elsewhere thus throwing ideas.

Draz74
2009-10-09, 01:52 AM
I have to say, this is a good idea. And seems to be reasonably well-implemented. And best of all, seems to be rapidly improving day by day from its already-good status.

You deserve a cookie.

sadie
2009-10-09, 03:51 AM
You deserve a cookie.

If anybody's passing Hampshire, I'd accept a pint.

sadie
2009-10-09, 01:14 PM
New version (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5.pdf), with slight ToB improvements: an Initiator level calculation, and checkboxes for your currently active stance.

Having gone through the list again, I don't see that any of the other items really need recording on the sheet. They consist of feats, special abilities and bonuses that are already catered for on the main sheets. The rest of the information would only be used at level up, and I've made a unilateral policy decision that that's what you buy the books for.

I have added a 'Feats' item in the calculation for initiative, to help people keep multiple initiative bonuses separate.

Evil the Cat
2009-10-13, 09:35 PM
I may take this into a pdf editor and see if I can put together a page for beguiler, since I'm currently playing one in a game.

sadie
2009-10-14, 07:20 PM
I may take this into a pdf editor and see if I can put together a page for beguiler, since I'm currently playing one in a game.

If you do then send me what you make, and I can either include, adapt or be inspired by it for a future version. I suggest basing it on the Dread Necromancer or Warmage. Be careful editing the spell list, a few of them are 90% normal width to make them fit better.

Or PM me your email address and I can send you the Illustrator files? I'm not ready to completely open source them yet, but this might be an interesting dry run.

sadie
2009-10-15, 10:15 PM
New version!

I've split the character sheets into two files: Core and Extended. The core contains the ordinary character sheets and the classes in PHB1. The extended file contains all the other classes.

The extended file also has a version of the Character Info and Combat in which the inventory, armour and worn items have been moved off to a third sheet, making room for other things: more feats and special abilities, more effects, more languages, and more conditional modifiers all round. There's even a Rage box there (since Barbarians are never going to get a sheet of their own). The idea is that most players will start their campaign on the core version, and as they level up and start running out of space they can move to the extended version.

I've also managed to squeeze one extra skill in there by killing off the dead fields from character info (does anybody really care about their PC's weight?)

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

A third installment will eventually be released with DM pages, which may or may not include NPC, Party Summary, Treasure Handout and Encounter. Ideas for this section are welcome.

Finally, I've included a very early version of Psion. Since I know next to nothing about the psionic classes, please give feedback on this before I extend it to the other 6 classes.



Soo..uhm....How about making a separate combat sheet for casters? *dives for cover*

There's space for this now in the Extended Combat page, but what fields are needed in this space? For example, the attack box has been shrunk on the assumption that you only get one attack per round using a magical attack. Damage is spell-dependent, as are range and type. What about criticals?

sadie
2009-10-15, 10:33 PM
My apologies that the file sizes seem to be noticably bigger with this version. I think the main blame lies with the change in header style, which I did to make them slightly more readable in low light conditions. If people say it's an issue, I'll see if there's anything I can do about it. Remember, it's only going to keep growing as I add more pages.

Kroy
2009-10-15, 10:56 PM
Sadie, you are a god. You have created the best character sheets of all time. *Hails*

sadie
2009-10-15, 11:08 PM
Sadie, you are a god. You have created the best character sheets of all time. *Hails*

It's a shame I can't put quotes like that on my CV :smallbiggrin:

sadie
2009-10-16, 01:43 AM
I am learning a lot about Illustrator doing this.

Darkameoba
2009-10-16, 02:25 AM
Thank you so much, these are the best 3.5 character sheets i have ever seen. i have a feeling these will be around as long as wordman's sheets for shadowrun 3rd edition

Thespianus
2009-10-16, 08:49 AM
There's space for this now in the Extended Combat page, but what fields are needed in this space? For example, the attack box has been shrunk on the assumption that you only get one attack per round using a magical attack. Damage is spell-dependent, as are range and type. What about criticals?

I believe it would be enough with one entry for a Touch Attack and one entry for Ranged Touch Attacks. The attack bonuses are the same for all spells, and the crit range is also the same for all (x2, I believe), so these two would work fine on the sheet.

I'm not sure how range increments work for ranged spells (if they do at all) and the damage is, ofcourse, dependent on the spell, so this should be excluded from the sheet.

Thanks! :)

DarkJean
2009-10-16, 09:55 AM
dude... i like the sheet but u should care about write correctly.
like "defense" instead "defence" on AC section.

(PS:could may have english errors on my post, pls, disconsider, im braziliam, and i type english very bad, but i read well, and for this, i giving my little advice.)

congrats anyway, keep working!

Random832
2009-10-16, 10:04 AM
dude... i like the sheet but u should care about write correctly.
like "defense" instead "defence" on AC section.

(PS:could may have english errors on my post, pls, disconsider, im braziliam, and i type english very bad, but i read well, and for this, i giving my little advice.)

congrats anyway, keep working!

Since english isn't your first language, you may not be aware that there are differences between the way some words are spelled in the USA (which is also, some would say unfortunately, the way it is taught in most non-english-speaking places around the world) and the way they are spelled most other places.

----

Though... this actually inspires me somewhat - would you mind if I used your work as a starting point for a "localizable" character sheet? (i.e. a program that you can plug in the names of things in different languages and generate a character sheet in that language) EDIT: nevermind, it'll be too much work anyway... still a cool idea.

Tyger
2009-10-16, 11:44 AM
One of the best laid out character sheets I have seen (and finding good ones is an obsession of mine!). Is there any way to make this sheet work with fillable fields? My handwriting is atrocious, so I always use typed out versions so that the DM can read it if need be.

sadie
2009-10-16, 02:27 PM
dude... i like the sheet but u should care about write correctly. like "defense" instead "defence" on AC section.

As Random832 says, this is a difference between American versus proper spelling - and I list British spelling as one of the main features of this sheet. I have made mistakes in the past, but this isn't one of them.

(However hard I try, and however many dictionaries I look at, I still can't make my brain accept that it's "Sorcerer" not "Sorceror". I must just be wired wrong :) )


Though... this actually inspires me somewhat - would you mind if I used your work as a starting point for a "localizable" character sheet? (i.e. a program that you can plug in the names of things in different languages and generate a character sheet in that language

If you're willing to do the work, go ahead - it's more than I have time for.


Is there any way to make this sheet work with fillable fields? My handwriting is atrocious, so I always use typed out versions so that the DM can read it if need be.

I briefly experimented with PDF Forms, which would let you type into fields in the sheet, and even do calculations for you. I established that it's perfectly possible, but way too time consuming. A large part of the appeal of Illustrator is the way you can duplicate, automate and otherwise save yourself work; in constrast, Acrobat doesn't seem to be very good at that. I'm also not sure how it would work if you changed the design of the PDF - ie could the fields be copied across from one to the other.

So it's possible, but I won't be doing it.

sadie
2009-10-16, 03:32 PM
Any feedback on the Psion?

PId6
2009-10-16, 03:51 PM
Psion looks pretty good. I'm not sure why the PP spent space is so large though, considering you only need to write one number in it. Also, there's no need to give discipline powers their own space, since psions of a particular discipline only gain access to that discipline's powers; they don't come automatically. So if you choose to take those powers, you put them along with the rest, and if you don't, you don't need to write it down at all.

Otherwise, it looks perfect.

Random832
2009-10-16, 04:00 PM
I'm not sure why the PP spent space is so large though, considering you only need to write one number in it.

so you don't have to keep erasing, like current HP. I like it. Also could make a good start for a spell point variant sheet with some modification. (I'll have to look into spell points more)

sadie
2009-10-16, 07:10 PM
so you don't have to keep erasing, like current HP. I like it. Also could make a good start for a spell point variant sheet with some modification. (I'll have to look into spell points more)

Yeah, PP can easily be 3 times larger than HP, and be counted in smaller increments. I figured there was no reason not to use the space.

jokey665
2009-10-16, 07:38 PM
I see Wizard et al have room for scrolls/wands but Psions don't have room for Power Stones/Dorjes. :smallwink:

sadie
2009-10-16, 09:07 PM
What's a Dorjes when it's at home?

Cedrass
2009-10-16, 09:15 PM
Power Stones are the same thing as a Potion, and a Dorje is a Wand.

gibbo88
2009-10-17, 12:30 AM
Just one thing....on the core classes sheet at least there is a "- size modifier" section. But if you do that you end up with halflings with a negative and giants with an AC bonus for size?

qoalabear
2009-10-17, 11:53 PM
Just one thing....on the core classes sheet at least there is a "- size modifier" section. But if you do that you end up with halflings with a negative and giants with an AC bonus for size?
If you consider larger than medium to be a positive size modifier, and smaller to be a negative size modifier, then you get the correct value. These sheets are consistent in that the formulae where being larger hurts have a "- size modifier" and those where it helps have a "+ size modifier"


I'm going to join the throngs calling these character sheets amazing. Sadly I don't have any ranks in Profession(baker) and a minus to wisdom, so I can't offer any cookies worth eating.

One comment: when you made the Archivist page, you removed the "base spells" column and kept the "Specialist Spell" column. I assume this is the reverse of what you meant to do? Archivists can't specialize in a type of magic. I only caught this as I just picked the archivist class for my librarian in a new campaign a friend is starting.

Magnor Criol
2009-10-18, 01:19 AM
I echo the multitudinous "great work" sentiment. I have a problem, though: the thing's to dang light! I only have a black and white ink cartridge, and so whenever I try to print it (whether it's set in color, greyscale, or black-and-white only) it comes out so faint as to be basically unusable.

That, however, is a problem on my end, and none of your own fault. Good coverage of the stuff needed, especially considering how new you say you are. :D

sadie
2009-10-18, 04:04 PM
If you consider larger than medium to be a positive size modifier, and smaller to be a negative size modifier, then you get the correct value. These sheets are consistent in that the formulae where being larger hurts have a "- size modifier" and those where it helps have a "+ size modifier"

I'd hoped that the diagram by the size modifier box, where the big guy was labelled + and the small guy was labelled -, would help with that ambiguity - I know I can never remember which way round each of the calculations is. Can anybody think of a clearer way to do that?


Sadly I don't have any ranks in Profession(baker)...

My character right now has ranks in Profession(brewer). The DM had to find some way of making it useful in the campaign, which in itself was enough reason to spend points there. Sadly it doesn't extend to real life.


One comment: when you made the Archivist page, you removed the "base spells" column and kept the "Specialist Spell" column. I assume this is the reverse of what you meant to do? Archivists can't specialize in a type of magic. I only caught this as I just picked the archivist class for my librarian in a new campaign a friend is starting.

Good point. Actually, I only just added the "base spells" column to wizard since the potential bonuses were getting silly, and that doesn't extend to other classes - yet. I shall probably bring it across.


I have a problem, though: the thing's to dang light! I only have a black and white ink cartridge, and so whenever I try to print it (whether it's set in color, greyscale, or black-and-white only) it comes out so faint as to be basically unusable.

Acrobat (including Acrobat Reader, as far as I can tell) has an Advanced button on its Print box that gives you all sorts of colour profile options - primarily intended to adjust for printers that are too red, too blue, etc. I have no idea how to use the thing, but you may find the solution there.

I've had some people say that the white-on-grey menus are hard to read in low light. Would people like me to darken them slightly? I can probably do so without compromising the sheet.

Magnor Criol
2009-10-18, 04:16 PM
I'd hoped that the diagram by the size modifier box, where the big guy was labelled + and the small guy was labelled -, would help with that ambiguity - I know I can never remember which way round each of the calculations is. Can anybody think of a clearer way to do that?

Not really. THe size modifiers themselves go both ways - you get a penalty if you're a large creature for things like AC and attack, but a bonus for grappling, and of course the reverse is true if you're smaller. I'd say keep it the way it is; as long as you're cinsistent about it the whole way through the sheet, people will figure it out. (And at some point, you're going to reach a level where the sheet's user is simply going to have to remember something themselves. =p )


Acrobat (including Acrobat Reader, as far as I can tell) has an Advanced button on its Print box that gives you all sorts of colour profile options - primarily intended to adjust for printers that are too red, too blue, etc. I have no idea how to use the thing, but you may find the solution there.

I've had some people say that the white-on-grey menus are hard to read in low light. Would people like me to darken them slightly? I can probably do so without compromising the sheet.

Tried that. I don't have much idea what I'm doing in there either, so it's possible I missed it, but what I was able to find there didn't help much. I wouldn't argue with you darkening it a bit, though.

Thespianus
2009-11-04, 04:31 PM
Sorry for the Thread Necromancy, but... the sheets seem to be gone from the Minotaur.cc site?

Did something happen to the site, Sadie, or did you just get tired of all of us moaning and whining about new features? :)

ShakeHandsMan
2009-11-04, 05:50 PM
I too would like to know, the original looked good, but cant seem to find any of the revised sheets.

sadie
2009-11-05, 10:42 AM
The URL has changed, since I split the sheet into two bits:

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character%20Sheet%203.5%20Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character%20Sheet%203.5%20Extended.pdf)

I updated the links in the first post, but not the dozen other links. Sorry for any confusion.

Other aspects of life have kept me busy, but I do have some small updates coming at some point so feel free to request classes you'd like added.

Thespianus
2009-11-05, 12:00 PM
Thanks.

My bad for not checking the first post. Stoopid me.

Whammydill
2009-11-05, 12:09 PM
It may just be me, but I have a hard time making out what I have to write over the boxes that include "STR" or "DEX" in them. It seems to blend with what i write. Does anyone know of a way to make them lighter or take them out? Or do I need Illustrator or something to change it myself? I'd prefer to just move the relevant skill next to the skill name in parentheses or something.

Are there any freeware PDF editing programs out there?

ShakeHandsMan
2009-11-05, 12:09 PM
Overlooked that too, thanks for the reply, although if i may make a suggestion, on the DN sheet, it might be useful to add a feature for keeping track of the amount of HD of undead currently controlled, as it is a rather integral part of the class.

Grushvak
2009-11-05, 12:13 PM
That's... wow. That's awesome. Thanks a lot, I'll be using these for my warlock.

dob
2009-11-05, 12:18 PM
This does look like quite a nice character sheet, but it doesn't address the problem I tend to have, namely tracking temporary and semi-permanent buffs. For instance, I may or may not have, as a battle cleric, greater magic weapon, magic vestments, bull's strength, enlarge person, etc. going in the course of an adventure. It would be kinda cool if I could have, say, three sets of buff-dependent blocks (attributes, attack, defense), for the naked, long-term buffs, and standard combat buffs. Anyone seen a sheet or system to help with that?

sadie
2009-11-05, 02:18 PM
This does look like quite a nice character sheet, but it doesn't address the problem I tend to have, namely tracking temporary and semi-permanent buffs. For instance, I may or may not have, as a battle cleric, greater magic weapon, magic vestments, bull's strength, enlarge person, etc. going in the course of an adventure. It would be kinda cool if I could have, say, three sets of buff-dependent blocks (attributes, attack, defense), for the naked, long-term buffs, and standard combat buffs. Anyone seen a sheet or system to help with that?

Have a look at the extended combat sheet, page 3 of the Extended set. It has a line for Temp attack, and one for Temp damage. I haven't played enough different classes to know if the chosen fields are the best choice, and it is of course a limited space.

jeek
2009-11-05, 03:27 PM
Very nice!

If you'd add Autohypnosis and Psicraft to the class skill list, the two Magic of Incarnum base classes (Incarnate and Totemist), and the Chameleon prestige class, this would completely become my standard set of character sheets. :D

sadie
2009-11-05, 07:09 PM
If you'd add Autohypnosis and Psicraft to the class skill list

There's a big set of blank skill slots for a reason. Every player is going to have a different set of must-have extra skills.


the two Magic of Incarnum base classes (Incarnate and Totemist)

OK, can do.


the Chameleon prestige class

I'm generally leaving prestige classes - there are far too many of them out there. If you can come up with a sheet design that takes care of a swathe of prestige classes - such as "all varieties of fallen paladin" - then I might include it.

sadie
2009-11-07, 07:53 AM
It may just be me, but I have a hard time making out what I have to write over the boxes that include "STR" or "DEX" in them. It seems to blend with what i write. Does anyone know of a way to make them lighter or take them out? Or do I need Illustrator or something to change it myself? I'd prefer to just move the relevant skill next to the skill name in parentheses or something.

Are there any freeware PDF editing programs out there?

Those bits only 15% black, so a pencil should be easily visible on top of them. Maybe your printer is doing the whole sheet too dark? See if you can persuade it to print it lighter?

Toliudar
2009-11-07, 09:06 AM
These are just beautiful - clear, well thought out and attractive. Thanks!

sadie
2009-11-07, 07:38 PM
New version! Now with Magic of Incarnum base classes.

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

I don't know much about Incarnum, but I think I have the salient features there. Let me know if there's anything I missed or did wrong. For example, does it make sense for Incarnum mages to have scrolls, potions and wands? Did I see somewhere that the Totemist is illiterate?

Actually, given the presence of the Extended Inventory sheet, should I just get rid of all those scrolls, potions and wands from all the class sheets? Is there something that would better use that space - such as metamagic? I'm still playing a fighter/rogue as my first character, though I'll be starting on a sorcerer soon, so I bow to the vastly greater experience of almost everybody.

Nobody's commented on the Psion yet. Should I just go ahead and try to cobble together the six other psionic classes?

Finally, is there anybody with skill in Illustrator who'd like to contibute to it? I'm looking into options for open sourcing it, possibly with some free SVN hosting spot like Google Code.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-11-07, 07:55 PM
I have misunderstood you, but I don't see the Incarnum classes in the links you gave

sadie
2009-11-07, 08:45 PM
D'oh. Me stoopid. I've uploaded the right file now, so try again.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-11-08, 11:14 AM
Wow, looks good, pretty thorough

sadie
2009-11-08, 01:46 PM
Thanks. Let me know how they work in anger.

I'd now like to add the third installment: the DM's sheets. Okay, it's only two sheets, but it's a start. DMs have a think and let me know any ideas for sheets that would be helpful.

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

DragoonWraith
2009-11-08, 02:38 PM
They look beautiful, all of them.

Your Table of Contents on the first page doesn't list the incarnum classes, though.

sadie
2009-11-08, 09:40 PM
New version! Now with PHB2 classes: Beguiler, Duskblade, Dragon Shaman. Yay, another book off the list!

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Please do give me feedback:

How's the Psion?
Are the wands/potions/scrolls on class sheets superfluous?
What sheets would DMs find useful?

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-11-08, 10:28 PM
Looks nice

The scrolls could probably be added to one of the equipment/character sheets and that would suffice

sadie
2009-11-09, 06:09 PM
The extended inventory sheet has room for the wands, scrolls and potions.

sadie
2009-11-09, 11:39 PM
Wow, the Spellthief is complicated. I think I have the salient points there, but they really do take up every pica of the page. The wasteful bit is that the stolen spell list has to be far larger than any human player will ever need it to be since 0-level spells take up just half a point - giving theoretically 40 stolen spells at level 20 - even though real players will rarely stray above half a dozen. I've fitted 34 slots onto the sheet, which I hope is more than enough.

As always, feedback is welcome, especially if you're using the sheets in a real game.

Tokiko Mima
2009-11-11, 05:05 AM
Very nice! Thank you. :smallsmile:

ShakeHandsMan
2009-11-13, 10:13 AM
These are some terrific sheets, much better than the stock stuff from WOTC

sadie
2009-11-16, 10:48 PM
I've added some pages to the DM's section: an NPC group summary not unlike the party summary; two different approaches to a timeline; and some map grids, one square and two isomorphic.

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Seracain
2009-11-17, 11:56 PM
Awesome work Sadie! These sheets are great.

I'm starting a campaign in a fortnight, and I think I'll be using your sheets. I do have a question though. I'll be using modified skills (mostly skills merged together), so would there be a way to alter it to fit? I'm guessing not, but I've had little to do with pdfs.

jokey665
2009-11-18, 12:10 AM
Have you added dorjes/power stones/tattoos to the psion sheet to mirror the wands/scrolls/potions on the wizard sheet yet? :smallconfused:

root9125
2009-11-18, 12:39 AM
As a DM, I find your sheet HUGELY useful! Thank you!

One huge, completely out-of-line request from someone who already owes you a large piece of his receding sanity: Have you the ability to make them forms, such that I can type into them? No need for auto-calculate or any such thing, but the ability to use them for PbP games, or to circulate them to my players electronically instead of in meatspace would be the icing on the cake.

sadie
2009-11-18, 01:34 AM
I'll be using modified skills (mostly skills merged together), so would there be a way to alter it to fit? I'm guessing not, but I've had little to do with pdfs.

If you can use Illustrator, sure. :smalltongue: You could do it in the pro version of Acrobat - it's lousy for layout, but you can edit text and delete things.

Are the modified skills along the lines of Pathfinder, or a homebrew? I could be persuaded into doing a Pathfinder version of the primary sheets.



One huge, completely out-of-line request from someone who already owes you a large piece of his receding sanity: Have you the ability to make them forms, such that I can type into them? No need for auto-calculate or any such thing, but the ability to use them for PbP games, or to circulate them to my players electronically instead of in meatspace would be the icing on the cake.

I had a look at that possibility, and it seemed really annoying and time consuming. Unless, of course, I'm missing the easy way of doing it?

The reasons it seems annoying are:

1. It has to be done in Acrobat, not Illustrator, so I can't use the printed objects as guides. My process for laying things out in Illustrator mostly consists of "line these things up together" - deprived of that tool it becomes much slower.

2. I just don't like Acrobat as much. It's probablygreat for colour balancing, preflighting and other such Acrobatty publishy things, but not for actual layout.

3. I'm not aware of any way of transferring form fields between PDFs, so they'd be wiped each time I updated the page.

It's possible to add your own notes to PDFs. Might that be good enough?


Have you added dorjes/power stones/tattoos to the psion sheet to mirror the wands/scrolls/potions on the wizard sheet yet? :smallconfused:

I've been waiting for feedback on the class-specific features of the Psion before I start on the other psionic classes.

What I'll probably do with the dorjes/power stones/tattoos is to make a psionics-specific version of the Extended Inventory sheet, where they take the place of the wands/scrolls/potions. Less work that way, and it's better for multiclassing. Do psionic people multiclass? I don't know.

How many dorjes/power stones/tattoos do you think you need, and what information does each one have? For example, wants have charges left. If tattoos confer benefits, does that mean they'd need a Special Properties area like worn items?

sadie
2009-11-18, 01:50 AM
Slight update to the DM sheets: prettier timelines, finer isometric grids.

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Are there no other ideas for useful DM sheets? Given the level of notes DMs need, I'm sure there must be something.

Bakkan
2009-11-18, 02:28 AM
My DM uses a hex grid, perhaps a page of that would be helpful for some DMs.

Kosjsjach
2009-11-18, 03:27 AM
Gotta say, these are spectacular. I will be using them at my next available opportunity. Thank you.

dsmiles
2009-11-18, 05:35 AM
Very nice! If I was still playing 3.5e instead of 4e, I would definitely use this sheet. I love multi-page sheets. They keep the information nicely separated so my skills don't end up next to my equipment (I also separate my peas from my carrots).

root9125
2009-11-18, 10:17 AM
I was going to suggest a sheet for planning future adventures, but the way my players go, the complexity would have to approach infinity.

sadie
2009-11-18, 10:46 AM
I was going to suggest a sheet for planning future adventures, but the way my players go, the complexity would have to approach infinity.

What would you have on such sheets? The timeline is good for historical events, but obviously not for the player's actions which are unpredictable and branching. Some sort of flow chart template?

Seracain
2009-11-18, 11:20 AM
If you can use Illustrator, sure. :smalltongue: You could do it in the pro version of Acrobat - it's lousy for layout, but you can edit text and delete things.

Are the modified skills along the lines of Pathfinder, or a homebrew? I could be persuaded into doing a Pathfinder version of the primary sheets.


Homebrew with elements of both actually. One of my players does have Illustrator so I could use that. But I suppose it wouldn't be hard to crossout the skills that I'm not using and add new ones at the end.

As for dm sheet suggestions, one thing I like to have at hand is a notes sheet. One with several boxes with subject titles. So I can name a subject and then scribble a quick note about it. Useful for ingame note taking.

sadie
2009-11-18, 02:29 PM
Seracain, I've PMd you a link to the Illustrator file. It shouldn't be too hard to customise the skills.

In a broader sense, how would people suggest I go about open sourcing these things? If the audience were programmers, I'd stick it on Google code and let people either use Subversion to subscribe to them, or just download them from the web interface. But would that be too technical for general D&D people?

As for accepting files from other people, I see the following scenarios:

Suggested changes to existing pages
Alternative versions of existing pages
New pages
Branches of the whole thing, eg Pathfinder

jokey665
2009-11-18, 02:41 PM
I've been waiting for feedback on the class-specific features of the Psion before I start on the other psionic classes.

What I'll probably do with the dorjes/power stones/tattoos is to make a psionics-specific version of the Extended Inventory sheet, where they take the place of the wands/scrolls/potions. Less work that way, and it's better for multiclassing. Do psionic people multiclass? I don't know.

How many dorjes/power stones/tattoos do you think you need, and what information does each one have? For example, wants have charges left. If tattoos confer benefits, does that mean they'd need a Special Properties area like worn items?

Well dorjes are essentially just psionic wands, power stones are psionic scrolls, and tattoos are sort of psionic potions. To be honest, you could just copy the wand/scroll/potion part from the wizard sheet and rename them dorje/power stone/tattoo and it'd be fine. The psion sheet just seems empty right now, and the item slots are the main thing missing from it that the wizard sheet has.

Shademan
2009-11-18, 02:45 PM
confound it! this sheet seems to be pure awesome judging by previous posts. but I cannot access it! can I get it somewhere else?

sadie
2009-11-18, 04:12 PM
Why can't you access it? Make sure you're following the right links, the files have changed name since I started:

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

sadie
2009-11-18, 04:19 PM
Well dorjes are essentially just psionic wands, power stones are psionic scrolls, and tattoos are sort of psionic potions. To be honest, you could just copy the wand/scroll/potion part from the wizard sheet and rename them dorje/power stone/tattoo and it'd be fine. The psion sheet just seems empty right now, and the item slots are the main thing missing from it that the wizard sheet has.

Reading the book tells me that Dorjes have up to 50 charges, Power Stones can each contain up to d6 different powers, and a person can have a maximum of 20 tattoos at once.

I'm curious why you didn't ask for psicrowns or cognizance crystals? Am I correct in thinking you wear one psicrown, in place of a helmet?

jokey665
2009-11-18, 04:32 PM
Reading the book tells me that Dorjes have up to 50 charges, Power Stones can each contain up to d6 different powers, and a person can have a maximum of 20 tattoos at once.

I'm curious why you didn't ask for psicrowns or cognizance crystals? Am I correct in thinking you wear one psicrown, in place of a helmet?

I didn't ask for those because asking for cognizance crystals would be like asking for there to be pearls of power on the wizard sheet. All I want is the psion sheet to have an equal amount of info to the wizard sheet. There's a ton of white space where the items could go, and it would be the equivalent to what's already on the wizard sheet.

Shademan
2009-11-18, 04:39 PM
Why can't you access it? Make sure you're following the right links, the files have changed name since I started:

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

none wants to work! what sorcery is this!?
*slaps pc*

sadie
2009-11-18, 07:27 PM
See whether these are any better:

core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/core.pdf)

extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/extended.pdf)

dm.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/dm.pdf)

sadie
2009-11-20, 02:39 PM
New version! Now with hex grids and lots of psionic stuff. Bakkan, are the hex grids a good size for you, or do you want one you can put miniatures on?

Since there are quite a few psionic pages, I've moved them into a file of their own. I still know very little about psionics, so please give me feedback, especially on the Psicrystal. I've put psionic items on an altered version of the inventory sheet, not on the individual pages.

I'm likely to do the same to the wands, scrolls etc from spellcaster's sheets unless anybody pipes up and tells me otherwise. Speak now or forever grumble and be ignored!


Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf)

Bakkan
2009-11-20, 03:25 PM
Those hex grids are great, sadie.

I would prefer to have wands, potions, and scrolls on the same sheet as spells because they are often used in combat, where I would generally keep my regular inventory sheet put away until combat was over.

sadie
2009-11-20, 09:45 PM
It occurs to me that Grapple on the Psicrystal sheet can't possibly be correct. Can anybody tell me what it should be?

jeek
2009-11-20, 09:59 PM
Here's a challenge, one I fully expect you not to accept:
Level 1 Factotum/Level 9 Incarnate/Level 10 Chameleon :)

Draz74
2009-11-20, 10:10 PM
I would prefer to have wands, potions, and scrolls on the same sheet as spells because they are often used in combat, where I would generally keep my regular inventory sheet put away until combat was over.

Seconded.
10char

Kosjsjach
2009-11-20, 11:47 PM
I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there a reason there's no Artificer sheet? Is it pending, or too much work?

(I'll say again, fanTAStic job. :smallsmile:)

Eldariel
2009-11-21, 01:23 AM
It occurs to me that Grapple on the Psicrystal sheet can't possibly be correct. Can anybody tell me what it should be?

It's correct except they're Diminuitive, not Small and as such have -12 Size penalty to Grapple-checks, not -4.

root9125
2009-11-21, 01:36 AM
I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but is there a reason there's no Artificer sheet? Is it pending, or too much work?

(I'll say again, fanTAStic job. :smallsmile:)

This! Totally this!

sadie
2009-11-21, 12:28 PM
That's the Artificer class from Eberron, not the Artificer or Twilight Artificer prestige classes from elsewhere?

I hadn't really looked Eberron, or Forgotten Realms. Artificer looks the be the only Eberron-specific class there. I have a list of my classes to-do on the first post of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7037552&postcount=1) - are there any other base classes that should be there?

Once that list of base classes is exhausted - and it is pretty exhaustive, especially with psionics and other things in there - I'll start turning my attention to some of the more common prestige classes. So go ahead and suggest those you want now - like Chameleon - but don't be offended when I don't get round to them yet. After all, there are a great many of them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)!

sadie
2009-11-22, 08:37 AM
Rememer to say which books classes come from when requesting them.

Human Paragon 3
2009-11-22, 12:24 PM
Is there anyway you could upload the main page (with the skills on it) in illustrator format? Perhaps on rapidshare or similar? I'd like to modify the skill selection myself for my personal skill consolidation.

If, for some reason, you're interested in doing a skill consolidation yourself, here's the one I use:




Sam's Simple Skill Consolidation


Appraise => Knowledge: Architecture Engineering
Balance => Tumble
Decipher Script => The relevant Knowledge (History, Engineering, Religion, Local or Spellcraft)
Open Lock => Disable Device
Hide + Move Silently = Stealth
Knowledge Arcana => Spellcraft
Knowledge Dungineering = Eliminated and encompassed by the other knowledges
Knowledge Geography => Survival
Knowledge Nature => Survival
Knowledge Nobility => Knowledge Local
Knowledge The Planes => Knowledge Religion
Listen + Spot = Perception
Ride => Handle Animal
Use Rope => Survival


The Final List of Skills


Bluff
Climb
Concentration
Craft
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Forgery
Gather Info
Handle Animal
Heal
Intimidate
Jump
Knowledge: Architecture, Engineering, Appraisal
Knowledge: History
Knowledge: Local
Knowledge: Religion
Perception
Perform
Profession
Search
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Speak Language
Spellcraft
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Tumble
UMD

sadie
2009-11-23, 09:13 AM
Is there anyway you could upload the main page (with the skills on it) in illustrator format?

I've PMd you a link to it.

Clearly people are interested in having access to it. Has anybody thought how they'd feel about me publishing the Illustrator files on something like Google Code?

root9125
2009-11-23, 10:21 AM
Clearly people are interested in having access to it. Has anybody thought how they'd feel about me publishing the Illustrator files on something like Google Code?

Yes! Please!

sadie
2009-11-24, 10:22 AM
Good news, everybody!

Character sheets are now open source!

I've uploaded the Illustrator files to a new project on Google Code.

http://code.google.com/p/charactersheets/

There are two ways of getting the files from this:

Anonymously, you can each file individually. Browse the Source tree to find the file you want, click the file name, then right-click the View raw file link and save it to disk.


Using subversion, you can check out the whole project or part of it with an eye to contributing. If you would like to help add pages - such as versions for D&D 4.0 or Pathfinder, or prestige classes - this is what you should do. I recommend TortoiseSVN for Windows. Follow the instructions on the Checkout part of the Source tab.

I'm not sure how this experiment in open sourcing a collection of Illustrator files will work out - all the tools for such are geared around sharing of actual programming code, not data sources. It's also my first real open source project, so be patient. I will be keeping the source files checked in and up to date. If you wish to contribute, I probably need to add you as a member so contact me.

I haven't yet published the output files there, those are still in the normal place. I think I need to do something with versioning them (ie each new version has a new name). For this reason it's likely that more regular new versions will continue to live elsewhere.

Note that these files are published under the Artistic License (http://dev.perl.org/licenses/artistic.html). That means you can copy and modify them as long as you keep the original copyright notices intact. You can't charge for the files themselves, though you're allowed a reasonable distribution fee (such as "I'll burn you a copy, give me a dime for the blank disk"). You may not include these files in a commercial product (technically you could include them as long as they remained invisible to the end user, which would defeat the point).

edit: And this post landed at the top of a page! Couldn't have planned it better if I'd tried.

Seracain
2009-11-28, 09:49 AM
Okay, had a character building day and here's some feedback from it.

1: There is no Deity/Religion spot on the first sheet. There may be no in game affect for most classes, but a reasonably number of campaign's I’ve been in have had it as relevant info for world interactions. This isn't a major issue, but one worth noting nonetheless.

2: On the armour section of the combat sheet, players were consistently confused on whether the Armour check penalty went above or below the text.

3: On the Animal Companion Sheet, some animals have four attacks. (e.g. bite, claw, tail, rake) If a fourth attack slot could be somehow fitted in, it would be good. :smallbiggrin: Most animals are fine with three though.


All of them minor things, the sheets a very user-friendly and useful otherwise. Thanks for the hard work. :smallsmile:



Some ideas for additional sheets if your still looking for more, are: a character background sheet and a notes sheet. The background sheet would be a place for physical description, brief history, personality and general role-play info, etc. The notes sheet would be a place for players to record important NPC names and brief info on them, important places, general notes and reminders, etc.

Can’t say how much interest there’d be for either sheet, but I know they’d get used in my campaign. Especially the notes page. But they may just be my group. :smallamused:

Amphetryon
2009-11-28, 10:17 AM
Congratulations, Sadie, on being the first one I've seen to make a character sheet I personally prefer to the Mad Irishman's. Well done!

sadie
2009-11-28, 10:55 AM
Thanks for the feedback.


Okay, had a character building day and here's some feedback from it.

1: There is no Deity/Religion spot on the first sheet. There may be no in game affect for most classes, but a reasonably number of campaign's I’ve been in have had it as relevant info for world interactions. This isn't a major issue, but one worth noting nonetheless.

The religion, height, weight, eye colour and other such roleplaying details were sacrificed for more skill slots (which everybody wants for all sorts of reasons). Our group never used them much (except the Cleric), but obviously groups vary. I can certainly see the potential for a sheet of character background.

What other things do you see that sheet containing?

Physical attributes: height, weight, hair, eyes, toenails, piercings etc
Allegiance: employers, religions and other loyalties
History: town and culture of origin, personally relevant NPCs
Personality: fetishes, complexes, obsessions, opinions and nuances



2: On the armour section of the combat sheet, players were consistently confused on whether the Armour check penalty went above or below the text.

Noted. I was never quite sure if that worked or not.


3: On the Animal Companion Sheet, some animals have four attacks. (e.g. bite, claw, tail, rake) If a fourth attack slot could be somehow fitted in, it would be good. :smallbiggrin: Most animals are fine with three though.

Noted. Presumably that also applies to Wild Shape? We're about to start a party with a druid next year, and I'm sure he'll be vocal.

sadie
2009-11-28, 12:04 PM
Congratulations, Sadie, on being the first one I've seen to make a character sheet I personally prefer to the Mad Irishman's. Well done!

Mad Irishman's sheets are rather nice. They use the minimum of heavy black while clearly separating each sectio, with great attention to detail. And he makes them decorative without it getting in the way, where my own approach has been one of stark simplicity. I'm still open to learning from them. He also does a great many more versions - 4E, Star Wars, Warhammer etc.

sadie
2009-11-30, 10:54 PM
Can people do me a favour? I've rearranged the Combat sheet, based on feedback both here and elsewhere:


Grouped attack and defence sections of the page
Moved initiative to a more visible position
Moved one of the ammo lines into the first weapon.
Moved the Health section to sit with the AC section.
Added a barbarian-specific version, and removed Rage from the normal version
Added a spellcaster-specific version, and removed Metamagic from the normal version

Since these are some big changes to a major sheet, I'd like feedback before they get merged into the main file. I've put them in the Source directory, here (http://code.google.com/p/charactersheets/source/browse/#svn/trunk/3.5/Extended) under the names Alternative Combat. There are PDFs so you don't need Illustrator to view them. I await everybody's comments.

sadie
2009-12-04, 03:06 PM
New version! Now with Artificer and a few tweaks: Animals, Wild Shapes and NPCs now get a 4th attack. Sorry it took a while.


Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf

Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf

As mentioned in the above post, there are some new versions of the Combat sheet with an alternative layout. Right now there's a confusing plethora of versions of the Combat sheet among the different files, and I'd like to remove a few - so it would be good if people could take a look and give some feedback.



Some ideas for additional sheets if your still looking for more, are: a character background sheet and a notes sheet.

I had a brief play with ideas for the character background sheet, but didn't get anywhere yet. Feel free to make suggestions.

And a reminder to everyone that you can get at the source files for these on the Google code site (http://code.google.com/p/charactersheets/).

CockroachTeaParty
2009-12-04, 03:38 PM
I really like these sheets. Too bad I almost never use paper sheets, myself. I use a statblock on my laptop of my own design.

However, should I run another RL game in the future, and my players want actual sheets, I'll definitely give these a shot.

sadie
2009-12-05, 06:44 AM
I noticed our cleric was having trouble with turning undead, and the process still required the DM to pull up the book to look stuff up, so I've had a go at redesigning that sheet.

Feedback please!

Cleric v2.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Cleric v2.pdf)

sadie
2009-12-09, 06:39 PM
New Version! Now with a character background sheet. I realise the picture box will be used by approximately 0.0 actual people, but it's traditional.

Since nobody objected to them, I've merged in the changes to the combat sheets and the Cleric (also Paladin and Factotum, since they turn undead too). We're about to start rolling up a new party in a few days, so I wanted to get the changes all merged in for that. We may learn something in the process.


Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf)

Rasman
2009-12-10, 03:44 PM
I'm just curious, have you ever considered doing Pathfinder sheets as well?

They'd actually free up a lot of space in most of your sheets AND double your portfolio potential.

sadie
2009-12-10, 07:10 PM
I always planned to, but I've never played Pathfinder (of course I've never played a warmage, factotum, dragon shaman, martial adept, psion etc either). If somebody with Pathfinder knowledge is willing to work with me, I expect we could get them done fairly sharpish. Are you up for it?

Rasman
2009-12-10, 07:30 PM
I always planned to, but I've never played Pathfinder (of course I've never played a warmage, factotum, dragon shaman, martial adept, psion etc either). If somebody with Pathfinder knowledge is willing to work with me, I expect we could get them done fairly sharpish. Are you up for it?

I can try, but my knowledge is pretty limited...I sadly, also, don't have a book with me...is at work now...so other than taking from the SRD, I wouldn't be much help at this point...Paizo has a conversion PDF...I'll see if I can't find mine since I downloaded it on my work comp once

you should also REALLY try pathfinder once, everything is much less complicated in terms of rolls

sadie
2010-03-12, 04:43 AM
It was recently pointed out to me that the Animal Companion sheet is significantly lacking an entry for Hit Dice. Not having been an animal before, this honestly hadn't occurred to me, but they have a point.

So while I'm rejigging this section, are there any other suggestions people have for the Animal Companion?

sadie
2010-04-01, 06:16 AM
New version! No new classes, but some improvements based on play testing:

Animal Companion now has a better indication of hit dice, since that sometimes matters for animals.

Factotum now has a section for Holy Symbols, space to store spell details, sadly at the expense of the scrolls, potions etc. These will now simply have to be kept on the main inventory sheet where there's already space for them.

Barbarian has a specialised version of the character sheets and combat, with emphasis placed on the effects of rage. They're also pulled out into a file of its own because, y'know, barbarians need all the help they can get.

Turn Undead, in all the places it appears, now has clearer labels and space for temporary values. Hopefully this should be less confusing in practice.


Download the new versions here:

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Extended.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Barbarian.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Barbarian.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 DM.pdf)

Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Psionics.pdf)

If the above links don't work for you or you want to grab the lot as a single file, here's an archive:

3.5.zip (http://www.minotaur.cc/3.5.zip)

sadie
2010-04-01, 07:53 PM
So what classes would people most like to see added? The list of base classes currently includes:

Shugenja
Spirit Shaman
Hexblade
Ardent
Divine Mind
Lurk
Binder
Shadowcaster
Truenamerand variants from Unearthed Arcana:
Bardic Sage
Divine Bard
Savage Bard
Druidic Avenger
Monk: Fighting Styles
Paladin of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyrrany
Planar Ranger
Urban Ranger
Battle Sorcerer
Domain Wizard

Scorpions__
2010-04-01, 08:50 PM
I would like to see Binder, since it's difficult to book-keep for.

By the way, you've made it on the Incarnate sheet so that they appear to gain the Soul chakra at 20th-level, they get this at 19th.

Thanks for all your work,





DM[F]R

Kosjsjach
2010-04-01, 09:29 PM
Huzzah! Now I won't feel like I'm committing thread necromancy when I say (again) these sheets are fantastic. No real class requests from me.

One thing I will say, though; while making everything in varying shades of gray has given it a nice soft aesthetic, it doesn't work as well as one might hope in print (in my experience). I tried in Illustrator to modify it darker, but selecting everything one-by-one was an overly-arduous task. Is there a trick to making each element darker by a few degrees? Perhaps a way of selecting elements by type? I'm not very experienced in Illustrator.

ghost_warlock
2010-04-01, 09:58 PM
So what classes would people most like to see added? The list of base classes currently includes:
Shugenja
Spirit Shaman
Hexblade
Ardent
Divine Mind
Lurk
Binder
Shadowcaster
Truenamer

and variants from Unearthed Arcana:

Bardic Sage
Divine Bard
Savage Bard
Druidic Avenger
Monk: Fighting Styles
Paladin of Freedom/Slaughter/Tyrrany
Planar Ranger
Urban Ranger
Battle Sorcerer
Domain Wizard


Most like to see.
Don't bother.

Scorpions__
2010-04-01, 10:06 PM
Oh, and just throwing this out there.. I'd like to see Knight done, even if you've already stated that you're not, they do have some abilities that could use some spaces of their own...

Doing everything from Tome of Magic too would be nice.





DM[F]R

peacenlove
2010-04-02, 02:12 AM
I would most certainly welcome a shadowcaster, binder and battle sorcerer character sheet.

Great work and thank you for those awesome sheets :smallsmile:

sadie
2010-04-02, 06:58 AM
One thing I will say, though; while making everything in varying shades of gray has given it a nice soft aesthetic, it doesn't work as well as one might hope in print (in my experience). I tried in Illustrator to modify it darker, but selecting everything one-by-one was an overly-arduous task. Is there a trick to making each element darker by a few degrees? Perhaps a way of selecting elements by type? I'm not very experienced in Illustrator.

There isn't really any trick that I'm aware of, though it does help matters slightly to work on the original Illustrator files rather than the PDFs because certain elements can be automatically repeated - "give me 29 more of these".

Am I correct I thinking that the section titles are the most unreadable part of the current sheets? They're also a bit dull, with those round corners, so if anybody wants to design a header that's more striking in the same space, I might apply it to all the sheets (or I might not. depends if I like it :D )

sadie
2010-04-02, 07:13 AM
Though if you do just want to make all the items darker, you can probably adjust your printer settings.

sadie
2010-04-02, 10:13 AM
Er - I've had a read, and I can't actually make head nor tail of the Shadowcaster. I think I'll leave it alone and hope it goes away.

PersonMan
2010-04-02, 01:24 PM
Looks quite good. I'll be using it for a character in tomorrow's session and see if any problems come up.

Motivational one liner!

EDIT: Looks great. The sheet works very well, and the Extended+DM sheets are great.

Scorpions__
2010-04-04, 10:30 PM
Er - I've had a read, and I can't actually make head nor tail of the Shadowcaster. I think I'll leave it alone and hope it goes away.

Oh, you have to do the Shadowcaster... PLEASE!?

It's weird for sure, but it's sheet should be similar to the Sorcerer's I think...





DM[F]R

paintonasign
2010-04-08, 06:22 PM
Made an account just to say

omgthanksssssssssssssss

Was looking all over the place for a Wild Shape sheet/Animal Companion/Summoned sheet since I'm about to play my first Druid.

:smallsmile:

EpicEvokerElf
2010-04-08, 08:18 PM
This is BEAUTIFUL! Would you be interested in modifying it (slightly) for Pathfinder at some point, by the way?

EDIT: Another vote for Binder, as it is incredibly tough to keep track of vestiges and such. Truenamers are almost certainly not worth your time, and shadowcasters are not the greatest either.

sadie
2010-04-09, 02:45 PM
This is BEAUTIFUL! Would you be interested in modifying it (slightly) for Pathfinder at some point, by the way?

Yes, but I need a lot of help from somebody who's actually played it and knows it. The odd suggestions here and there are enough for 3.5, but I need a partner to do Pathfinder. Does anybody feel up to it?

(Also, I have plenty of other projects filling up my time, and a day job)

sadie
2010-04-14, 03:59 PM
I've had a go at making the style slightly prettier. I've changed the fonts, and adjusted the weight and style of the section headings. So far only the one sheet done - let me know if it's worth taking the time to apply this style to all the other sheets:

v2.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/v2.pdf)

Sila Prirode
2010-04-15, 05:58 AM
Could you exapand a Wilders power selection? You only have space for 11 powers, and while that is the most single class wilder will get, most people grab Expanded Knowledge at least once. Also some races get racial psionic power. If you could extend that list to include 20 powers it would be great.

sadie
2010-04-16, 10:53 AM
Will do. Remember, the files are available if you need to make a change and can't wait for me.

sadie
2010-04-17, 10:01 AM
I've had a go at making the style slightly prettier. I've changed the fonts, and adjusted the weight and style of the section headings. So far only the one sheet done - let me know if it's worth taking the time to apply this style to all the other sheets:

v2.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/v2.pdf)

I've started applying this new style to the other sheets, and I'll move a few things for clarity while I'm at it. It'll take some time, but is there anybody out there who'd like to have a go at designing a cover for these?

sadie
2010-04-22, 07:16 PM
New version of the core sheets, with the new prettier styling applied:

Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Core.pdf)
I've also rearranged the pages slightly. People were getting confused with the multiple versions of the character info, combat and inventory sheets split among the files, so I've merged a few and put them into Core where they're easier to find. The special Psionic version will stay where it is of course, and the Barbarian has its own copy of everything.

There's also a new version of the Barbarian sheets, with a slight emphasis placed on certain items. I hope it's helpful. Those poor widdle Barbarians need all the help they can get:

Character Sheet 3.5 Barbarian.pdf (http://www.minotaur.cc/Character Sheet 3.5 Barbarian.pdf)

sadie
2010-05-01, 05:10 AM
Does anyone know meaning and hanzi for Wu Jen? The nearest I can find is:

巫婆
wū pó, "witch".

sadie
2010-05-12, 07:15 PM
Major new version!

I've made some slight modifications:

All combined into one document, and rearranged for clarity
New classes: Ninja, Shugenja, Binder, Shadowcaster, and probably others I've forgotten.
Improvements: Dread Necromancer, Factotum, Barbarian, and many others.
Nice new style applied to (almost) all pages
Pretty front cover!


Download the file here: 3.5.zip (http://www.minotaur.cc/3.5.zip)

This is all a work in progress - I plan to add an introduction and index, more classes, and probably more artwork, as well as fixing anything people find. Many of the improvements I've made have been from myself and other people using the sheets in real games. Feedback is welcome!

PersonMan
2010-05-12, 08:01 PM
Wonderful. Now I need to delete all of my old links and replace them with an easy-to-use, aesthetically pleasing new version! How dare you improve an already more-than-satisfactory product?!

I'm not even using other character sheets anymore. Keep up the good work!

Kosjsjach
2010-05-13, 12:52 AM
Woohoo! Darker, and still awesome! :smallbiggrin: Great job.

EDIT: Goodness, these are beautiful.

EDIT 2: The stylistic changes don't appear to have been applied to the Binder page, and the More Vestiges page is titled "Soulmelds". I'll post more inconsistencies as I find them.

EDIT 3: The "Blank Tome of Battle", "Blank Spellcaster" (1 and 2), "Extended Cleric", and the "Psionics>Core Pages>Combat" pages also haven't been re-stylized. Neither have the Dungeon Master pages, but that's either intentional or doesn't matter much anyway.

EDIT 4: Ha! Nice touch on the Barbarian pages. "RAGE!" Gotta say again, these are gorgeous.

Draz74
2010-05-13, 01:15 AM
Page 8: class abilities have the heading "Inventory."

Page 43: Vestiges section has the heading "Soulmelds."

Just because you obviously care about this project enough to want proofreading help. Keep up the good work!

CockroachTeaParty
2010-05-13, 01:35 AM
These are EXCELLENT. Dip me in chicken broth and call me Brenda! I just deleted all my old character sheet files, and replaced them with this solid collection.

BAM!

Points! Have them! Grab the points! Look at all these points I am giving you!

Points: 1,000,000,000,000,000,023