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View Full Version : Should God-Blooded creatures be allowed in PvP? [3.5]



OMG PONIES
2009-10-01, 05:29 PM
Hello again, everyone! So today's question comes from a player of mine in a PvP arena (level 20 gestalt) who wants to add the Vecna-Blooded template (MM5) to her character. I don't think I can go into the details of the template, since I don't think it's OGL, but I'm very skeptical about allowing this. All of the characters are powerful, but this just seems TOO good for a +1 LA.

To put it in context, all WotC books are allowed, as well as Dragon and Dungeon magazines. So I've already allowed some pretty crazy stuff, but I don't know if this will cause an outrage among my players.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

Indon
2009-10-01, 05:33 PM
Mind I say this not having read that template.

I think it'll depend on the optimization level of your players.

At sufficiently high optimization levels, templates need to be very good in PvP situations or they won't justify the loss of the class level, especially at level 20. Gestalt alleviates this somewhat, but nonetheless.

One thing you might want to watch for is a character who's establishing one side as all one pure, powerful class, and the other side as all RHD/LA supporting that class.

quick_comment
2009-10-01, 05:43 PM
Vecna-blooded no way. The rest are fine. Vecna-blooded makes it so all divinations fail. An superior invisibilitied Vecna-blooded slayer is impossible to locate

Akal Saris
2009-10-01, 05:51 PM
I say no. This came up in a PVp game I was in as well (a level 3 game though!). Many of them have DR 40 or whatever that they can choose to apply or not, and only lasts until they take 40 damage before they lose tat ability permanently, so the first opponent they fight has to deal with ridiculous amounts of protection, but the next opponent won't have to worry about it at all.

This was exacerbated by it being a 3rd level game, so the characters were almost literally unkillable by my team in the first game, then saddled with a near-worthless LA +1 in every combat to follow.

It's a DM template, or at best a special reward for PCs in a non-PVP game.

quick_comment
2009-10-01, 05:55 PM
Its DR 10/-, which isnt all that great at any level especially level 20.

Volkov
2009-10-01, 05:56 PM
The god blooded template, quite frankly tends to suck.

OMG PONIES
2009-10-01, 06:34 PM
@ Volkov: The Vecna-Blooded template seems like an exception to that rule of suck. A BIG exception. Enemies within 120 ft have a 50% chance of forgetting she's there...no save, no nothing. Divinations against her fail. She wins.

Volkov
2009-10-01, 06:40 PM
@ Volkov: The Vecna-Blooded template seems like an exception to that rule of suck. A BIG exception. Enemies within 120 ft have a 50% chance of forgetting she's there...no save, no nothing. Divinations against her fail. She wins.

What if the receiver of the template is male, a hermaphrodite, or asexual?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-01, 06:53 PM
:smallamused:

That's an idea. Set up a culturally gender-separated class system, and only let entities of a certain gender join a class. Males can be barbarians, bards, clerics, rangers, or sorcerers. Females can be druids, monks, paladins, rogues, or wizards. Interestingly, fighters are gender-neutral.

Apply this elsewhere, too. Psions are a male class. Psychic Warriors are a male class, as are soulknives. Wilders are a female class. Dread Necromancers are a female class. Prestige classes are written in the second person, though, so no dice there.

Volkov
2009-10-01, 06:54 PM
:smallamused:

That's an idea. Set up a culturally gender-separated class system, and only let entities of a certain gender join a class. Males can be barbarians, bards, clerics, rangers, or sorcerers. Females can be druids, monks, paladins, rogues, or wizards. Interestingly, fighters are gender-neutral.

Apply this elsewhere, too. Psions are a male class. Psychic Warriors are a male class, as are soulknives. Wilders are a female class. Dread Necromancers are a female class. Prestige classes are written in the second person, though, so no dice there.
What about hermaphrodites or asexual creatures?

lsfreak
2009-10-01, 07:07 PM
What about hermaphrodites or asexual creatures?

Transgendered persons? Persons who fall outside of the two-gender system?

Grey Paladin
2009-10-01, 07:10 PM
They multiclass, obviously.

Volkov
2009-10-01, 07:13 PM
Transgendered persons? Persons who fall outside of the two-gender system?

Oh yes, those are important too.

Akal Saris
2009-10-01, 07:30 PM
Transgendered persons? Persons who fall outside of the two-gender system?

Transmuters? Fighter/mage/thieves?

Gametime
2009-10-01, 08:22 PM
What about hermaphrodites or asexual creatures?

Hermaphrodites are almost always still either genetically male or female. Psychological identification aside, they can be categorized.

Asexuality is another issue altogether, but rare enough that it seems unlikely to come up.

OMG PONIES
2009-10-01, 08:22 PM
This needs to stop before it gets any closer to being offensive. I was using "she" because the player and character are both female.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-01, 08:33 PM
Yeah. All the examples I gave were based on the gender of the iconic character for that class. Just poking fun at the comment on your use of "she".

IMO, God-blooded is an extremely odd template and really can't be measured that well. For arena combat, it might work, at least the Vecna-Blooded one. Automatic Bestow Curse (lose half actions) on everyone in 120 feet for 10 rounds. Just run away and stuff. I wouldn't rule Cloak of Mystery to give potentially unbeatable invisibility, though.

OMG PONIES
2009-10-01, 08:43 PM
It wasn't your comment that I was referring to, Foryn.

sonofzeal
2009-10-01, 09:05 PM
Hermaphrodites are almost always still either genetically male or female. Psychological identification aside, they can be categorized.

Asexuality is another issue altogether, but rare enough that it seems unlikely to come up.
One out of a hundred are sexually ambiguous at birth. That's not a small number. One in five hundred get sexual assignment surgery at birth. Some sources label "true intersexuals" as one in two thousand, still not a particularly small number when you think about it. That means there's well over a thousand in my city alone. Please don't assume that people can be categorized cleanly and efficiently, it's almost never the case.


ANYWAY, back on topic.... yeah, template's overpowered. Dunno what WotC was thinking there. Wouldn't allow it except in a massive cheese campaign.