Using a lute as a weapon

[Zaydos]

One of my players is making a bard and wants to use his lute as a melee weapon. Anybody know where/if there are rules for this? I think he wants it as a club, but I couldn't remember where bayonets for instruments were although I found them for crossbows.

[Fluffles]

I'd treat it as an improvised weapon. That will break when it hits something.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hit 'im with a banjo!

[Cicciograna]

I would go with 1d4 bludgeoning damage, crit 20/x2 and, as Fluffles said, it breaks after dealing damage.

[Volkov]

Lute? Why is he hitting people with a lute? It better be a magical iron wood lute so it doesn't break.

[Darcand]

Ellllllll Kabong!

[Jayngfet]

Fairly sure the complete scoundrel has rules for sticking blades into instruments, it then counts as a dagger that takes a -2 penalty.

[Alejandro]

Does the lute look like an electric guitar? Because then he could totally rock out and smash it.

[kpenguin]

Lute? Why is he hitting people with a lute? It better be a magical iron wood lute so it doesn't break.

This. Musical instruments were not made for bashing people with. It'll break pretty easily if he swings it on an iron golem or something.

[Weimann]

If he hits stuff with a normal, wooden lute, treat it as an improvised weapon. It would probably break after two or three hits, if not enough to make it shatter, then at least to render it useless as a musical instrument, and would only be a weapon from then on.

However, I think you should allow him to quest for or produce a special lute made of sturdier material. It's a Rule of Cool thing. Why not let him complete some quest or meet some requirement to have an adamantite lute? Possibly even let a magical one? As long as he earns it, it's not like it matters what he fights with.

This reminds me of a picture I saw with a violinist who had the violing bow drenched in blood. That was awesome. Adamantite strings, the bow used as a short sword, and only playable if lubricated with fresh blood. That's a badass bard for ya.

[Thurbane]

Is he an awakened horse swashbuckler/bard?

http://www.morepaul.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/el%20kabong.jpg

[Alejandro]

Is the PC's name Edward?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6539/223500-edward_chris_von_muir_pictureboxart_160w_large.jpg

[Volkov]

Is he an awakened horse swashbuckler/bard?

http://www.morepaul.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/el%20kabong.jpg

:biggrin: Hahahahahah, that was a good one!

[Tiki Snakes]

Suggestion; Dwarven War Lute.

An Enchanted metal Lute-like instrument, designed to be played in much the same way but to magically amplify the sound made so that it can be heard throughout the large, echoing chambers of your average dwarven fortress. Has a slightly more abrasive, uncivilised noise that energises the dwarven youth in particular.

Given that it's magical amplification comes from sturdily enscribed runes, and the body is solid metal, such instruments can be given a decidedly axe-like edge, and used as either a Dwarven Battle-Axe, or a lute (though not at the same time.)

I remember everything!
I remember every little thing, as if it happened yesterday
I was barely seventeen, and I once killed a boy with a fender guitar
I dont remember if it was a telecaster or a stratocaster
But I do remember that it had a heart of chrome, and a voice like a horny angel
I dont remember if it was a telecaster or a stratocaster
But I do remember that it wasnt at all easy

It required the perfect combanation of the right power chords
And the percise angle from which to strike!

[comicshorse]

Doesn't he know Luting is against the law ?

[Weimann]

Here's the pic, by the way:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb177/ClericofPhwarrr/bards.jpg

[TelemontTanthul]

Allow it!

We had a bard that used his lute as an improvised weapon.

He somehow managed to crit almost every other hit.

Be sure to give him or her a magically reinforced lute

otherwise it defeats the purpose.

[Artanis]

Is the character named Haruko Haruhara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLCL), by any chance? :smallbiggrin:

[Zaydos]

I was thinking 1d6 but 1d4 sound better, but I told him he'd probably need a magic lute if he didn't want it broken. Anybody know if there are stats for one or should I just make one?

P.S: I love this suggestion

Suggestion; Dwarven War Lute.

Unfortunately there aren't (officially) dwarves in this world, but I'm thinking of just statting out some type of enchanted lute that functions as a magical club.

Edit: Just realized the Fooly Cooly reference... he loves FLCL so that might be where he got the idea... me I just thought El Kabong.

[Shadowbane]

This. Musical instruments were not made for bashing people with. It'll break pretty easily if he swings it on an iron golem or something.

As a real life musician, I can safely say it will break if you hit even an ordinary person with it with a suitable degree of force.

...Try to get an ironwood lute.

[Volkov]

As someone who was hit in the head by a falling Iron wood branch. I can safely say that stuff is very strong, and it hurts like sweet blue infant zombie monkey beejeebus.

[Random832]

As someone who was hit in the head by a falling Iron wood branch. I can safely say that stuff is very strong, and it hurts like sweet blue infant zombie monkey beejeebus.

D&D Ironwood is wood that has magically been made actually as strong as steel.

[Volkov]

D&D Ironwood is wood that has magically been made actually as strong as steel.

Real iron wood is a pain in the @$$ to burn, sinks in water, and is very strong stuff.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Secrets of Sarlona page 136 has a Steel fLute. Simple Light Weapon, 1d4 bludgeon, 20/x2, 2 lb. 15 gp, sort of like a club.

[Shadowbane]

I bet you could probably figure out a way to make/magic a lute so that it is incorporated into a crossbow...

[Tiki Snakes]

Basically, my idea revolved around the idea that, (possibly for the simple cost of it being more expensive than buying them seperately, due to rarity or as this is 3.5, a flat +something gp cost as in the magic/masterwork items stuff), it would function as a more-or-less mundane weapon or lute. Because basically, by making it one item, he doesn't gain ANY real advantage (He'd even have to shift his grip enough to not get round the 'drawing a weapon' issue, really, especially in the case of a Dwarven-War Lute).

He does, however, get to play to his character concept.

Really, yeah, I'd say an exoticly designed lute that also is intended to function as a weapon is the way to go, have it function exactly like either an axe or a club, (depending on whether it's dwarven style magical-guitar, or a lump of ironwood with strings and more traditionally lute-ish).

He's already playing a Bard, so I doubt weapon-dice-damage is really going to break the game, but allowing it to function as a half-decent weapon that he is able to be proficient in will merely allow the thing to feel more like you are genuinely saying Yes when you let him. In my opinion anyway. (As you seem okay with the concept, why not?)

Don't worry too much about justifying it via existing rules or rituals. If you need to justify it working, you've either got magic (ie, the Dwarven War-Lute being basically an Axe with some strings on it) or magical substances (Ironwood being robust enough that the neck won't snap and the sounding-chamber won't break any time soon).

[Zaydos]

I actually quite like both concepts magic and ironwood, I've given him both as options. Currently I said club as it simply made sense, but maybe even a mace, or greatclub but bards aren't proficient with it... and why is greatclub martial? Sorry that was off-topic, but now I want to house rule it in as a simple weapon (it's arguably better than a spear but a spear has a decent thrown range and x3 crit and it isn't as good as a longspear anyway).

Edit: I think I told him ironwood.

[ericgrau]

I have a bard that took summon instrument even though he can't play any instruments. He only sings. The DM told us we defeated a bunch of minor random encounters. So I said I was using summoned instruments to swing at them. Then we ran into an NPC.
Me: "I summon a tuba to fight it!"
NPC: (plot stuff)
Me: "I lower the tuba in a non-threatening manner."

[Zaydos]

lol, I almost suggested "Summon Instrument" but decided against it.
Apparently he also wants it to function as a crossbow... so now I am going to have to figure out a magic item cost... to the MiC.

[taltamir]

This:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCtal_Legend

The game will feature the character of Eddie Riggs, voiced by Jack Black, a roadie who was transported to a fantasy world inspired by the artwork of heavy metal album covers. Eddie becomes the world's savior, leading the down-trodden humans against a range of supernatural overlords using a battle axe, his Flying V guitar infused with magical powers, and a customizable hot rod. In addition to Black, the game will feature voices of heavy metal musicians including Lemmy Kilmister, Rob Halford, Ozzy Osbourne and Lita Ford and other celebrities such as Tim Curry, as well as more than one hundred metal songs selected by Schafer for inclusion in the game.

a regular lute just breaks, and is a -4 club if used to attack...
But if he gets a custom one made... you can make a sweet axe out of it.

[ericgrau]

Ah, of course, a magic ax. I smell a cool custom magic item.

[Lysander]

If it's just a lute, crossbow, and club combined into one why not make it cost what all three would normally cost plus a little extra because of the reduced encumbrance.

Or maybe give it to him in exchange for a character "flaw." For example, maybe a druid he was friends with created it for him as a gift. In gratitude the bard vowed to protect nature. Not a huge penalty but a roleplaying obligation to live up to. Or something else like that.

[taltamir]

Here's the pic, by the way:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb177/ClericofPhwarrr/bards.jpg

this should go in the babes thread. it is just sexy

[Zaydos]

I gave it to him for 3600 GP because it just seemed so fitting and to have enough RP value to be worth a little cost reduction, besides it's a bard with a +1 weapon at Lv 5. I looked at the MiC trait for spears that allow them to shift around and decided to give it to him as a greatclub+crossbow with that trait (which is +2000 GP) and I took off ~1,000 because it just worked so well in character and also I don't worry about him getting too powerful because he totally fails at optimization.

PS: Almost forgot I so agree about the picture.

[The White Knight]

this should go in the babes thread. it is just sexy

It was there already. Page... 5?

EDIT: yep (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6437459&postcount=134).

[KellKheraptis]

As a real life musician with a solid body electric guitar (mahogany neck, mahogany body), I can tell you that if it's sturdy wood, it most definitely can be used to clear a stage. I've got one little bitty nick on the pointed headstock from a drunk that thought he could play my guitar right off my chest, and in return for scarring my baby, he got a broken nose and concussion. She's also got a small nick on the underside by the strap peg, which was a reactionary swing as someone tried to punch me at a different venue. That one did similar damage. And the real kicker was that with the Floyd Rose bridge, it didn't even go out of tune, despite the pull on the neck both times! So I guess if you could make a solid body lute that could still be heard (or an artificer to make a D&D Marshall Stack in a Can), you'd be good to go. Hell, go KISS on it, and make it an ACTUAL axe. You might also Google Heavy Metal Bard. It had quite the list of "songs" and neat effects that the bard could produce, just by playing. One of those homebrews I've been trying to get into a game but never can, since no one does comedic one-offs.

[gdiddy]

As a real life bard who fights monsters by bludgeoning them with magic lutes, I can say it's practical.

[Fhaolan]

Real iron wood is a pain in the @$$ to burn, sinks in water, and is very strong stuff.

It also quickly dulls most tools, but actually splinters rather nastily when struck with an edge.

I know this because I made a pair of ironwood jo sticks for a friend when I accidentally severed one of her oak originals with a sword blow. The replacement staves did not do as well as I had hoped. They did very well with wood-to-wood impacts, but hit them with a sword or whatnot, and they just turned into fuzzy bundles of splinters.

Even worse were the, admitably pretty, epoxy-infused superwood staves a different friend got to use for spear shafts. I found them *very* difficult to shape for a socketed spear, yet they pretty much shattered when an edge hit them.

You'd do better with rosewood. I've had good experiences with rosewood. Made a lap-harp out of rosewood and bog-oak. Very pretty, and pretty darn robust while still retaining good sound quality. I tend not to use it as a weapon though. Too much tension in all those strings, bad things would happen.

[Darrin]

I thought I should mention the Lutebow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a) in the Cityscape web enhancement.

[Dixieboy]

I bet you could probably figure out a way to make/magic a lute so that it is incorporated into a crossbow...

An extra sting on the wong angle is all the enemy will notice. :smallwink:

[Reaper_Monkey]

As someone who was hit in the head by a falling Iron wood branch. I can safely say that stuff is very strong, and it hurts like sweet blue infant zombie monkey beejeebus.


I have a bard that took summon instrument even though he can't play any instruments. He only sings. The DM told us we defeated a bunch of minor random encounters. So I said I was using summoned instruments to swing at them. Then we ran into an NPC.
Me: "I summon a tuba to fight it!"
NPC: (plot stuff)
Me: "I lower the tuba in a non-threatening manner."

These two quotes just made me almost hyperventilate from laughter... you sure these bards aint casting Hideous Laughter as a free action when attacking with musical instruments?

[Sliver]

I find it kinda scary how much here people know about using instruments as weapons.. You guys rock!