[3.5] Help loopy make a Beguiler Gestalt?

[loopy]

Hey all! I'll be participating in a evil gestalt game on this forum soon and, seeing as I've never done gestalt before, or even played a Beguiler, I thought I'd ask for some help creating Lijah Syn.

Anyway, we start at level 4, we are using fractional BAB/Saves (which I hope I've added correctly), and theres a limit of 4 classes, which eliminates the mindbender dip I was originally planning for the Beguiler side.

I could also use help with feat selection, or further optomisation? Tome of Battle is banned, before you suggest it.

{table]ECL|Class1|Class2|BAB|F/R/W|Feats|Abilities
1|Beguiler 1|Swashbuckler 1|+1|2/0/2| |Armored Mage,Trapfinding,Weapon Finesse
2|Beguiler 2|Factotum 1|+1|2/2/3| |Cloaked Casting, Surprise Casting, Inspiration, Cunning Inspiration, Cunning Knowledge, Trapfinding
3|Beguiler 3|Swashbuckler 2|+2|3/3/3| |Advanced Learning, Grace +1
4|Beguiler 4|Swashbuckler 3|+3|3/3/4| |Insightful Strike
5|Beguiler 5|Rogue 1 |+4|4/6/4| |Silent Spell, Sneak Attack +1d6
6|Beguiler 6|Factotum 2 |+5|4/6/5| |Surprise Casting(move action), Arcane Dilettante(1)
7|Beguiler 7|Factotum 3 |+6|4/7/5| |Advanced Learning, Brains over Brawn, Cunning Defence
8|Beguiler 8|Factotum 4 |+6|5/7/6| |Cloaked Casting(+2 to o/c SR), Arcane Dilettante(2), Cunning Strike
9|Beguiler 9|Factotum 5 |+7|5/8/6| |Opportunistic Piety
10|Beguiler 10|Factotum 6 |+8|5/8/7| |Still Spell
11|Beguiler 11|Factotum 7 |+9|6/9/7| |Advanced Learning, Arcane Dilettante(3)
12|Beguiler 12|Factotum 8 |+9|6/9/8| |Cunning Surge
13|Beguiler 13|Factotum 9 |+10|6/10/8| |Arcane Dilettante(4)
14|Beguiler 14|Factotum 10 |+11|7/10/9| |Cloaked Casting(+2DC), Opportunistic Piety (+1)
15|Beguiler 15|Factotum 11 |+12|7/11/9| |Advanced Learning, Cunning Breach
16|Beguiler 16|Rogue 2 |+12|7/11/10| |Evasion
17|Beguiler 17|Rogue 3 |+13|8/12/10| |Sneak Attack +2d6, Trapsense +1
18|Beguiler 18|Rogue 4 |+14|8/13/11| |Uncanny Dodge
19|Beguiler 19|Rogue 5 |+15|8/13/12| |Advanced Learning, Sneak Attack +3d6
20|Beguiler 20|Rogue 6 |+15|9/14/12| |Cloaked Casting(o/c SR), Trapsense +2
[/table]

Thanks all! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Made the edition clear-er-er.

[Zovc]

What you're doing here looks good, you may be able to find a class you like more than the rogue. Give the Warblade in the Tome of Battle a look (A lot of people use Jade Phoenix Mage for similar purposes, in the same book). The Duskblade (Player's Handbook II) casts off of intelligence, I believe.

A lot of people like to take a level of mindbender with full casting classes. Mindbender can be found in the Complete Arcane.

[loopy]

Unfortunately the tome of battle is banned for this campaign, and I can only have 4 classes total.

[Eldariel]

Rogue at level 1 is a must. 8+Intx4 skills is just something you can't pass by as a skill monkey. What kind of combat are you seeking? I gather "melee/skillmonkey/buffomancy/mindraping" but mite as well be clear about it.

As for feats:
Font of Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606)xlots
Darkstalker [Lords of Madness]
Craven [Champions of Ruin]

That should get you started.

[loopy]

Rogue at level 1 is a must. 8+Intx4 skills is just something you can't pass by as a skill monkey. What kind of combat are you seeking? I gather "melee/skillmonkey/buffomancy/mindraping" but mite as well be clear about it.

Well as a beguiler I get 6+Intx4 skills anyway, plus the extra one for being a human.

You pretty much nailed the role I'm going for, basically keying off the int synergy to boost combat damage (Insighful strike, craven, inspiration boosts, etc) with a lot of mindrapery to back it up.

What does Darkstalker do, may I ask?

[Keld Denar]

Darkstalker is in Lords of Madness and it allows you, while hiding, to also be undetectable by Blindsense, Blindsight, Tremorsense, and Scent. That covers you defensively from everything but Lifesense (ala Wraithes) and Mindsight (which technically nothing blocks, although your DM might rule otherwise).

Speaking of Mindsight, since you have the requisite level of Mindbender already planned, you qualify for this feat. It allows you to "see" int scores. Its effectively Blindsense against anything that has an int score, which is just about everything outside animated undead, vermin, constructs, and most oozes.

[Mongoose87]

Well as a beguiler I get 6+Intx4 skills anyway, plus the extra one for being a human.


You could get eight more skill points by making it rogue.

[loopy]

You could get eight more skill points by making it rogue.

True enough, I'll change it around. :smallsmile:

[Tavar]

Remember that we also get an extra +2 skill points per level, and those are multiplied at first. So you'd end up with 10+Int.

[HereticNox]

What source has the mindsight feat in it?

Lords of Madness apparently.

[ex cathedra]

If you don't mind my asking, why the rogue levels?

I mean, obviously, this character will be something of a gish, right? But neither beguiler nor daring outlaw make especially good halves of a gish. Even with fractional BAB you don't get your fourth iterative, and if you're keeping the Int SAD you won't be able to afford the TWF line.

For precision damage builds, your number of attacks is generally quite important. Your precision damage per hit is something like 5d6+20+(Int*2), right? That's not terrible, but when you're getting three (or perhaps 5, with TWF and Gloves of the Balanced Hand, with possibly one more attack coming from UMD'd Divine Power) attacks at 20 it's... falling slightly behind.

Your feats will probably be something like Darkstalker, Craven, and FoI in all of your spare slots.

[crazedloon]

I will have to agree with everyone else you seem a little unfocused on the one side of your character.
I would suggest the factotum for 8 levels to get the action boost and then chameleon 10.
It gives you
-more flexibility in that you can choose which focus you need each day.
-more spells outside of illusion and enchantment to deal with those situations where those do not help (which can be often if your dm is mean)
-the ability to tank better with the fighter focus
-the same amount of sneak attack
-nice boosts to stats

[mikeejimbo]

I'm surprised no one has suggested Wizard. Sure they have a bit of overlap, and your saves don't really improve at, but two spell lists, both casting off Int? Yes please!

[Tavar]

I'm surprised no one has suggested Wizard. Sure they have a bit of overlap, and your saves don't really improve at, but two spell lists, both casting off Int? Yes please!

It's better to have one active class and one passive class. Sure, you have to lists to cast off of, but you can only cast off one at a time, so it doesn't help as much as one might think. Same goes for and combination of full casters. Yes, they can be powerful sometimes, but there are better and easier combos out there.

[Zovc]

Consider Duskblade instead of rogue, its abilities work on your Beguiler spells for the most part. I've heard of a "Sneak Attack Fighter" somewhere, if you want sneak attack and a full base attack bonus, that might be your fix.

[loopy]

The rogue levels were really intended to get some sneak attack damage, plus the delicious craven feat.

What do you think about Swash3/Factotum8/Chameleon 9? Chameleon 10 isn't really all that isn't that impressive anyway.

[crazedloon]

The rogue levels were really intended to get some sneak attack damage, plus the delicious craven feat.

What do you think about Swash3/Factotum8/Chameleon 9? Chameleon 10 isn't really all that isn't that impressive anyway.

Its a tough call...

Giving up chameleon 10 loses you ability boon +6 which (given a starting int stat of 18 and a minimum of +10 to int by level 20 [+5 for level +5 for a book] for a total of 28) translates into a loss of 1 8th level spell slot (effecting your beguiler) and a fourth level spell slot on your beguiler and any casting you take with chameleon.

In exchange you gain (given the same stats above) 28+4= 32 = 11 damage

so for 11 damage each attack (which is not to bad in all truth) you lost an extra casting of mind blank/moment of prescience as well as a casting of black tentacles/polymorph (your choice in all truth the polymorph is the more likely of the 2 4th level spells)