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Eon
2009-10-02, 04:10 PM
Okay, my original thread has been eaten by the imaginary page monster so i'm making another with more things and i'll try to include what was on the old one too.
maybe i'll just list them with dots :smalltongue:
threatening to kill characters if he gets annoyed at us
telling me that we are having dnd at my house without asking
railroading alot!
blaming me if something happens
telling me when/where we are having dnd, the night before
gets mad at me if i can't make it/assumes i don't have a life
too easy of fights
trying to get me to print all of the other peoples character sheets using the WOTC character builder, even though he has it
and that's just some of it.

should i stay our should i go?

Akal Saris
2009-10-02, 04:12 PM
stay!

with a trainwreck like this, will you really be able to look away?

Arakune
2009-10-02, 04:13 PM
Okay, my original thread has been eaten by the imaginary page monster so i'm making another with more things and i'll try to include what was on the old one too.
maybe i'll just list them with dots :smalltongue:
threatening to kill characters if he gets annoyed at us
telling me that we are having dnd at my house without asking
railroading alot!
blaming me if something happens
telling me when/where we are having dnd, the night before
gets mad at me if i can't make it/assumes i don't have a life
too easy of fights
trying to get me to print all of the other peoples character sheets using the WOTC character builder, even though he has it
and that's just some of it.

should i stay our should i go?

That looks like a certain guy I know :smalltongue:

Dunno, talk to him first. You have a lot of good points. Are the others with the same problems?

Dust
2009-10-02, 04:13 PM
The 'imaginary page monster' may have been an actual thread deletion. That being said, I just woke up and think this is a legit question, if a fairly straightforward answer.

I'm assuming you're talking about your GM, who is also a friend? I would say that your GM is fairly juvenile just for the 'threatening to kill characters if he gets annoyed at us' one - the rest of the things you listed could be interpreted differently depending on the viewpoint.

That said, since you seem to be looking for a simple answer, I'd suggest that you find a new GM, yes.

Reaper_Monkey
2009-10-02, 04:16 PM
Go. Go quickly. Go quickly and leave acme explosives. Only then can you be sure you've gone far enough.

Either that or stand up to them/replace them (seems your doing most of the heavy lifting and can ID poor DMing skills), I guess you could be diplomatic and just talk things over expressing how much these bullet pointed issues are irritating you and request for them to reform. But that leaves little room for explosives, so best stick with the original plan. Good luck, and bring ear plugs. :smallbiggrin:

Eon
2009-10-02, 04:16 PM
The imaginary page monster is actually a joke from when i used to play runescape and they had a page 51 monster that ate your threads when they got there.

also, me and the dm are the only ones that have played before so they don't know the difference.

and i have talked to him before and he just acts suprised and denies it.

Telonius
2009-10-02, 04:17 PM
Rule of thumb: if you aren't having fun, leave. I promise you there is more than one DM in the world.

Guancyto
2009-10-02, 04:20 PM
Dunno, talk to him first.

Definitely this, if he is a friend. Oh, and with

-telling me that we are having dnd at my house without asking
-telling me when/where we are having dnd, the night before
-gets mad at me if i can't make it/assumes i don't have a life
-trying to get me to print all of the other peoples character sheets using the WOTC character builder, even though he has it

Some variant of "this game is not my job and it isn't yours either" might help. If he's DMing all newbies except you, he's probably feeling a lot of pressure and may be counting on you for help. Trying to get him to chill out a little might be the best way.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-02, 04:22 PM
I agree that you should leave. It's a game, & meant to be fun. If it's not fun, then it's not worth playing. There are more productive ways to crunch numbers if you aren't gonna enjoy yourself.

That said, I have to ask: What are his good qualities? What keeps you playing, or at least hesitating to go?

Eon
2009-10-02, 04:26 PM
I agree that you should leave. It's a game, & meant to be fun. If it's not fun, then it's not worth playing. There are more productive ways to crunch numbers if you aren't gonna enjoy yourself.

That said, I have to ask: What are his good qualities? What keeps you playing, or at least hesitating to go?

A) we are friends (even though he was directly responsible for my wow addiction)
B) he got me into my first group for dnd (a different dm, much better)
C) i don't get to play dnd much
D) probably some more stuff

Kylarra
2009-10-02, 04:31 PM
I'm not seeing a really good reason to stay.

Eon
2009-10-02, 04:39 PM
i hope you all understand, but i'm only turning 14 in a few days, and i find it hard to do that to friends....

Kylarra
2009-10-02, 04:41 PM
i hope you all understand, but i'm only turning 14 in a few days, and i find it hard to do that to friends....Even at 13 there's something called "common courtesy", which your DM doesn't appear to be showing.

Vangor
2009-10-02, 04:44 PM
A few of those are simply a person being a jerk. I mean, having a DM with too easy of combat or railroading or a few other pitfalls is not the worst when you can have fun with friends. However, many of those negatives are personality traits, which happens to influence his DMing but mean being his friend probably is not that worthwhile.

Does not matter what you do, you ask about using a house and you shouldn't be getting pissed if people are unavailable. The night before, eh, happens.

jiriku
2009-10-02, 04:46 PM
So you've already told him you're unhappy, and he doesn't care, huh?

It sounds like this is a friend you want to keep, but who treats you in a bullying, insensitive way. It also sounds like you don't enjoy playing in his games very much.

Leave politely. If he asks why you left, answer honestly. He's your friend, so he deserves to know the truth. He's not likely to change his ways, but if you treat him with respect while refusing to allow him to disrespect you, you should still be able to maintain your friendship with him.

And the others are right. There's always another DM out there looking for new group members.

Elfin
2009-10-02, 05:12 PM
I have to agree with everyone who's saying you should leave. It doesn't sound like you're having fun, and I'm sure you'll be able to find another DM.

Ehra
2009-10-02, 05:13 PM
Your first step should be to tell him that he's being a jerk and you'd like him to stop. Too often people never tell anyone that they're upset and then they flip out and no one knows why. There are a TON of otherwise intelligent adults out there that honestly have no clue that they come across as jerks at times, and if they're told they'll usually adjust if it's a reasonable request. At age 14 it's only going to be more common.

People are obnoxious at that age. Give them a reason to stop being obnoxious and chances are they will.

Godskook
2009-10-02, 05:37 PM
If you have to ask if you should stay or go, you should probably go. Typically, someone won't bother asking unless they're pretty sure already, and just looking for the 'moral support' to go through with it. From personal experience, I can tell you that walking away with class will sometimes provoke change(staying when they aren't listening, won't).

Mastikator
2009-10-02, 05:52 PM
and i have talked to him before and he just acts suprised and denies it.Maybe he doesn't know.
Get him red handed the next time he does any of the things mentioned, he can't deny it right after he did it.

Well, he can, but he'll lose all credibility and that's a surefire sign you should go.

The Glyphstone
2009-10-02, 06:06 PM
Wait, he's hosting games at YOUR house without asking you, telling you instead?

This isn't a friend, it's a bully using you as a doormat.

chiasaur11
2009-10-02, 06:08 PM
Well, if you stay there could be trouble.

And if you go there could be double.

Clash references aside:

Go. Definitely, for reasons said above.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-02, 06:11 PM
i hope you all understand, but i'm only turning 14 in a few days, and i find it hard to do that to friends....

Then do what so many of us didn't learn to do until much later in life: Don't waste time with people who make you unhappy. I wish that I hadn't flushed away so much time with so-called friends who were never there when I needed them, & always there to drag me down when I was better off alone. Be kind & courteous to everyone who deserves it, but don't subject yourself to those who don't deserve you.

Paulus
2009-10-02, 06:13 PM
First of all make it clear that this is a game, and he is seriously edging on ruining your friendship for good with his actions, over sed game. Tell him exactly what you have told us, and then listen to what he has to say. Tell him you don't want to loose him as a friend, but he has been acting very strange lately, and maybe the DM stuff has been to hard for him. Offer to help him out, and if he flat out refuses on all counts. well... Next, offer to Dm for the group, show your other friends how it's suppose to go. Make sure you do everything you are suppose to, make it fun. Then let the other players decide who they would like to DM, and if your previous DM doesn't shape up... ship him out. and stick with the group. Rotate DMing. HAVE FUN. D&D is never suppose to be a reason to break up friendships, nor cause stress. If either is happening, it isn't the D&D my friend... and some situations you'll just have to sort out heedless of the game or not.

Kiren
2009-10-02, 06:14 PM
Keep a checklist for a couple of sessions of the things you mentioned in the first post, then talk to him about it, use the checklist as backup if he denies it.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-10-02, 06:18 PM
By all means, stay. I want to see how many more of these threads you make before the reality of the situation, and the true nature of your 'friendship' with this guy, finally sink in. :smallsmile:

Eon
2009-10-02, 06:19 PM
First of all make it clear that this is a game, and he is seriously edging on ruining your friendship for good with his actions, over sed game. Tell him exactly what you have told us, and then listen to what he has to say. Tell him you don't want to loose him as a friend, but he has been acting very strange lately, and maybe the DM stuff has been to hard for him. Offer to help him out, and if he flat out refuses on all counts. well... Next, offer to Dm for the group, show your other friends how it's suppose to go. Make sure you do everything you are suppose to, make it fun. Then let the other players decide who they would like to DM, and if your previous DM doesn't shape up... ship him out. and stick with the group. Rotate DMing. HAVE FUN. D&D is never suppose to be a reason to break up friendships, nor cause stress. If either is happening, it isn't the D&D my friend... and some situations you'll just have to sort out heedless of the game or not.

that would be a good idea, but it won't happen. most of the other players are on his side... though they don't know much of the arguement...

Physics_Rook
2009-10-02, 06:28 PM
As mentioned many times before, the game is supposed to be fun to play.

If your friend is making things difficult for you, let him know as early as possible. Waiting will only make it harder to talk to him about it.

If you think that he'll be angry or even violent, then maybe you should talk to him while the other players are present (safety in numbers).

Another thing to do, is talk to your parents about it.
It might feel a little weird, but talking to your parents is a little like calling down a tactical nuke.

You'll want to try other options first, but if all else fails, evacuate the area and drop the big one on him.

Fiendish_Dire_Moose
2009-10-02, 06:48 PM
Leave the game. Just go. If you're 14 it's only going to get worse.

Oh, and being told the night before, is okay.
I don't even get that. I plan us to meet up for a game a month in advance, and on the day we are supposed to play, half the group is missing, and cannot be contacted.
I don't organize for my IRL group anymore. I got tired of scheduling just for them to piss on me.
So, save yourself the headaches.

Kallisti
2009-10-02, 06:53 PM
If he's your friend, talk to him first, but if you've already tried talking to him out of the game and he still won't be reasonable, go. Quickly.

herrhauptmann
2009-10-02, 10:35 PM
You're 14. I assume everyone playing lives in the neighborhood, right? No one's asking their parents for a ride to the game?

Then unless every book is stashed in your basement, there's no reason to NOT put your foot down and say "Can't or won't" If he doesn't accept that, a)he's not much of a friend b) use the parents as an excuse.

Seriously dude as far as DMing issues, if they bother you, take over DMing for a while, show him how to do it instead of telling him how to improve.

With the people issues though, you need more level and rational heads than you're liable to get among teens. So back out of the game for a while. And why do you have to keep printing out other peoples character sheets?

Random832
2009-10-02, 10:40 PM
With the people issues though, you need more level and rational heads than you're liable to get among teens. So back out of the game for a while. And why do you have to keep printing out other peoples character sheets?

Probably because of the utterly stupid recent trend of people doing their character sheets in ink (mainly by printing hardcoded everything), rather than printing a proper blank one and filling it in with pencil.

taltamir
2009-10-02, 10:52 PM
a friend that isn't acting like a friend to you is not really your friend.
And those things are downright terrible. Frankly I see no reason to stay...

Try to "discuss" it? What are you, spouses with children who need counseling? the guy / girl is treating you horribly and violating basic rules of social interaction. If they don't know how to act around other people, then don't hang around them.

As for printing out... what the heck for? everyone brings their laptop and use digital sheets.
myth-weavers.com has some good ones. Or you can just use a word document to make one yourself.

Paulus
2009-10-02, 11:12 PM
that would be a good idea, but it won't happen. most of the other players are on his side... though they don't know much of the arguement...

Then let them know. Inform them you are considering leaving if the DM won't shape up for the reasons you have listed here. And let them know a great deal of your other friends, namely us, agree and explained it all to you simply. Heck you can even send them here to read this thread. Now, if they aren't willing to have a better game, or let you DM them and show them how it's done. Fine. if it all turns against you... Make sure the other people in your group know how to contact you and leave. sit back. Wait for his jerk antics to be unloaded on everybody else, then smile as they start calling you to see if you will DM for them.

and hey, if they don't. who cares? No stress for you. you're 14, got a game you love to play, and no one to tell you how to play it. Look for another group. Life is far to short, even at 14, to worry about some jerk who says he is your friend stressing you out. Over a game.

No fun? You're done.

oxinabox
2009-10-02, 11:47 PM
* threatening to kill characters if he gets annoyed at us
That's a bad habit to be into, killing charaters for players actions.




* telling me that we are having dnd at my house without asking
That's a major issue. i'm sure your not the only person in your house, oreven if you are then it's not fair on you to unwillingly take the burdan of seating, and cleaning up after the whole party, unexpectedly.
Tell him he has to ask, because you have to get it OK'ed by your folks/roomates. i'm sure they don't want there every weekend to blocked out of room.




* railroading alot!

This one is not so much of a problem. some dms are like that, they will tell there story wether you like it or not. he'll get better with pratice, or not.
some dm's happily admit to railroading, one of mine does, and it's basically a joke.
Eg we our ship breaks down, outside a planet.
me: "Is it shapeled like a train"
Dm: "why yes, yes it is"
I'm quiet the opposite, I was dming a one shot, on zero notice (got board, was will a stack of gamers,, "Heyt anyone whanna play some 4e?"
I cam,e up wit h a sernario where they were refugees from an orc army who would be contacted by the theives guild to body guard the leader. (they were outsiders, so they new they could be trusted not the have alliegences).
Instead upon getting to the city, they made sure all the other refugee's we ok, heal them of the wounds, then set ouit back towars the city they had fled, and Took the Fight Back to the Orc. and Boy did they hammer those orcs.

However the best DM controlls the plot as well as any railroader, but not by forcing the situation, but by knowing, as well as the players how they character would react. it's freakishly amazing to see. and wonderful to play, since you get he elegant plots, but without pain of having no control.
You trully beilve you control the character every action, but the dm somehow anticipated it, and put it into his plan.
I have a dm like that.



* blaming me if something happens
sure he's not jesting? he's either a troll (if he's making those kinda jokes) or a ass****



* telling me when/where we are having dnd, the night before
Much better if you set a regular time.



* gets mad at me if i can't make it/assumes i don't have a life


* too easy of fights

Demonstrate to him how easy they were.
Eg, he rolls, and then crit, dm: oh yourve got it comming!
24 damage.
you: Peh, Yo ucan do better than that! shouldn't you be doing atleast 30 agaist me, on a normal hit.
(potetially a good time to roll intimidate agaisnt the mosters)
Maybe he makes the combat easy cos he doesn't want it to be long cos running combat's hard.
Give him time, and tell him you want a challange. Something ytou cna really sink you ax into.



* trying to get me to print all of the other peoples character sheets using the WOTC character builder, even though he has it
Get everyone to make there own.
Bring laptops and let everyone sit down and do it.

i say stick with it.
he's a friend

Mystic Muse
2009-10-02, 11:52 PM
Probably because of the utterly stupid recent trend of people doing their character sheets in ink (mainly by printing hardcoded everything), rather than printing a proper blank one and filling it in with pencil.

I do this because I hate the feeling of writing it in lead. Pens feel so much better on the hands in my opinion. Of course I generally write character sheets down in notebooks because it's cheaper and easier to edit.

@ Taltamir. Not everybody has a laptop they can bring to every session. Mine for instance runs out of power in thirty minutes and the only plug in the place my DM needs for his laptop.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 12:03 AM
@ Taltamir. Not everybody has a laptop they can bring to every session. Mine for instance runs out of power in thirty minutes and the only plug in the place my DM needs for his laptop.
Power strips are your friends.

Random832
2009-10-03, 12:13 AM
I do this because I hate the feeling of writing it in lead. Pens feel so much better on the hands in my opinion. Of course I generally write character sheets down in notebooks because it's cheaper and easier to edit.

The problem is with formatted character sheets that have no space to write a new number when you level, so you have to print a new one every time. With plain notebook paper you can just leave enough space to write the new number next to the old one

Pronounceable
2009-10-03, 12:28 AM
A general rule of thumb that applies often in life: If you gotta ask, go.

Mystic Muse
2009-10-03, 12:41 AM
Power strips are your friends.

power strip?

and @ random382. Yeah I agree with that. Anybody who will keep asking you to print out new sheets for them because they muck up the old ones is a schlect wort.

Paulus
2009-10-03, 12:47 AM
power strip?

and @ random382. Yeah I agree with that. Anybody who will keep asking you to print out new sheets for them because they muck up the old ones is a schlect wort.

Yeah you know, power strips.

http://main.goecoreno.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/power_strip.jpg

Mystic Muse
2009-10-03, 12:51 AM
ah. My family calls them surge protectors. >_>

Now you just have to solve the problem of no Wifi on my computer.:smalltongue:

And no wifi at my FLGS.

Paulus
2009-10-03, 01:00 AM
ah. My family calls them surge protectors. >_>

Now you just have to solve the problem of no Wifi on my computer.:smalltongue:

And no wifi at my FLGS.

Ah actually surge protectors are a quality that can be put into a power strip; some don't come with them. It shuts down the circuit if there is a power surge, say from a lightening strike, protecting your stuff. So all Surge protectors are power strips, but not all power strips are surge protectors.

Solaris
2009-10-03, 01:14 AM
Bandil, kid, get with the gone. This guy you're gaming with? I'm guessing he's running the game because nobody else is willing to. From the sounds of your post, pretty much anybody could do a better job of it.
If you're not willing to kick him to the curb (and you can be diplomatic or not - I wouldn't, on account of his behavior), then... well, hell, I can't help ya. You feel the need to play a game, I'm betting the PbP forum would welcome you with open arms. Heck, I'll run a game if it comes to that. This kid you're playing with needs to stop, time now.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 09:02 AM
ah. My family calls them surge protectors. >_>

Now you just have to solve the problem of no Wifi on my computer.:smalltongue:

And no wifi at my FLGS.Downloadable character sheet + flash drive = yay?

pres_man
2009-10-03, 09:38 AM
Stay or Go?

Well if the game is at your house, I would strongly suggest that you stay there no matter if you decide to keep playing with this group.

As for the group staying or going, well I would agree with others. You are living with your family, I assume based on your age, tell them you have to make sure things are clear with your family. Also talk to your folks and say that you may "blame them" on occasion (I'm old and married and tell my wife if there is something she doesn't want to do, but doesn't feel comfortable saying no to blame it on me why she can't do something).

Ultimately if you (a) want to keep gaming and (b) don't like this guy running the game, then you're going to have to put on the big pants and sit in the DM's chair yourself. The best way to do this is to wait until a particular part part of the campaign has completed (logical pausing place) and say, "Hey, I've been thinking about DMing for awhile. If everyone is ok with that maybe next week we can make new characters and run it. I'm sure *name of current DM*, you are getting tired of running the game and want a chance to play. Sound good everyone?" Make it a win-win situation, you get to DM and he gets to play. Don't make it into a lose-lose situation, you are being forced to DM because he sucks at it.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-10-03, 09:57 AM
Since when did fancy printed/digital character sheets become a necessity?

*Shakes cane at younger generation*

When I was your age, we didn't have standardized character sheets and modern printers! We engraved our character stats onto sandstone tablets with granite chisels, and we were happy to have those because our parents had to memorize their character stats!

chiasaur11
2009-10-03, 11:16 AM
Since when did fancy printed/digital character sheets become a necessity?

*Shakes cane at younger generation*

When I was your age, we didn't have standardized character sheets and modern printers! We engraved our character stats onto sandstone tablets with granite chisels, and we were happy to have those because our parents had to memorize their character stats!

You had writing and standardized language?

Well look at Mr. Fancy.

We had random noises and cruddy stick based drawings of dragons and we were ecstatic, because the previous edition didn't even have drawings! Or Sticks!

sofawall
2009-10-03, 11:39 AM
As for printing out... what the heck for? everyone brings their laptop and use digital sheets.
myth-weavers.com has some good ones. Or you can just use a word document to make one yourself.

Yes, because every 14 year old has both a house with wireless internet and their own personal laptop they can bring everywhere.

Volkov
2009-10-03, 11:46 AM
You had writing and standardized language?

Well look at Mr. Fancy.

We had random noises and cruddy stick based drawings of dragons and we were ecstatic, because the previous edition didn't even have drawings! Or Sticks!

In my generation we didn't even have sapience! Or legs, we were fishes swimming in the primordial seas of the silurian!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-10-03, 12:35 PM
In my generation, we played DnD through mitosis!

chiasaur11
2009-10-03, 01:06 PM
In my generation, we played DnD through mitosis!

In my day we played aboard gigantic spaceships while fleeing armies of robot bent upon the destruction of humanity!

I remember when Billy's rogue bit it. Idiot forgot all about the good old rule of the ten foot pole. Good times, good times.

Mastikator
2009-10-03, 01:20 PM
I plan us to meet up for a game a month in advance, and on the day we are supposed to play, half the group is missing, and cannot be contacted.
I don't organize for my IRL group anymore. I got tired of scheduling just for them to piss on me.


This.
Is the reason I never get to play.