A strength based race combo that gives any DM a brainbreaking headache

[Lord of Syntax]

Ok, there are some craaaazy race builds out there, but my friends will be thinking of this for a long time! :smallwink:

A Half-Minotaur Ogre has:
+14 to STR
-2 to DEX
+6 to CON
-6 to INT
-4 to CHA

(Yes the mental modifiers hurt!)

So with: STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
You get: STR: 30 DEX: 14 CON: 22 INT: 4 WIS: 8 CHA: 4

You lose 7 lvls though. :smallfrown:

[Arbitrarity]

Just half minotaur does +14 str, actually. It raises medium creatures to large, with stat modifiers in MM, which include +8 str.

Half minotaur goliath. +2 LA, large size, treated as huge for weapons, etc. +18 str.

[Lord of Syntax]

Sh*t! :smalleek:

what book is the goliath from (it is not in the SRD)

[kjones]

Races of Stone.

[Lord of Syntax]

+4 from being a Goliath
-------+-------
+4 from being half-minotaur
-------+-------
+8 from the size increase
-------=-------
+16
----------------
+10 from being a Ogre
-------+-------
+4 from half-minotaur
-------=-------
+14

[taltamir]

how is he at will saves?
also, 0 at any attribute means you are completely helpless / crippled / paralyzed / whatever

A hit from a low level cha reducer can take him out of the fight.

[Darrin]

Sh*t! :smalleek:

what book is the goliath from (it is not in the SRD)

No, but Half-Giants and Water Orcs are in the SRD.

You can also add the Wild racial template on top of that (Dragon #306, LA +0) for another +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

So, unless you're somehow getting Strength to multiple saves and/or other abilities, these character, while physically threatening, will have issues with things that simply don't care about being in melee.

I mean, just about every wizard, from the get-go can say "Reflex save or lose," and quickly follow it up with a "Reflex save and lose, natch." However, even a decent Swift Hunter could just kite the guy. Being large and beefy doesn't lend well to having high AC without a ton of gear.

Short answer, just make sure that there are enemies either out of reach from the brute or are able to modify the battlefield to smack him around. Debuffs might also be in order, but that might bug the player, if used to frequently.

[EleventhHour]

So, unless you're somehow getting Strength to multiple saves and/or other abilities, these character, while physically threatening, will have issues with things that simply don't care about being in melee.

I mean, just about every wizard, from the get-go can say "Reflex save or lose," and quickly follow it up with a "Reflex save and lose, natch." However, even a decent Swift Hunter could just kite the guy. Being large and beefy doesn't lend well to having high AC without a ton of gear.

Short answer, just make sure that there are enemies either out of reach from the brute or are able to modify the battlefield to smack him around. Debuffs might also be in order, but that might bug the player, if used to frequently.

Unless... He's going for enough strength to be able to ask the most akward question of all to the DM...

"What's the break DC for a planet?"

[herrhauptmann]

At least this guy isn't likely to ever gain a form of enlargement or expansion. :/
That's 1 or 2 size increases, with str boosts each time.

[woodenbandman]

Google Hulking Hurller, they did some shenanigans there with 1024 strength.

[Tengu_temp]

At least this guy isn't likely to ever gain a form of enlargement or expansion. :/
That's 1 or 2 size increases, with str boosts each time.

Enlarge Person/Expansion doesn't give you a strength bonus from size increase beyond what's written in the spell description - +2, +4 if you increase two size categories.

In fact, I'd like someone to quote me the direct ruling on the Half-Minotaur template, because I suspect that the strength bonus from size increase is a result of very dodgy interpretation of the rules, rather than RAW, and certainly not RAI.

[Volkov]

Unless... He's going for enough strength to be able to ask the most akward question of all to the DM...

"What's the break DC for a planet?"

Infinite, gravity will recombine the planet later on.

[Douglas]

In fact, I'd like someone to quote me the direct ruling on the Half-Minotaur template, because I suspect that the strength bonus from size increase is a result of very dodgy interpretation of the rules, rather than RAW, and certainly not RAI.
I don't have the text on hand, but I'm pretty sure Half-Minotaur specifically says to apply the Monster Manual stat modifiers for size change if you give it to a creature that would go up a size category from it. This is the primary reason that the template is overpowered.

[Thespianus]

Ok, there are some craaaazy race builds out there, but my friends will be thinking of this for a long time! :smallwink:

A Half-Minotaur Ogre has:
+14 to STR
-2 to DEX
+6 to CON
-6 to INT
-4 to CHA

(Yes the mental modifiers hurt!)

So with: STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
You get: STR: 30 DEX: 14 CON: 22 INT: 4 WIS: 8 CHA: 4

You lose 7 lvls though. :smallfrown:

I really hope your DM throws you into an intricate weave of social finesse in a clever Who Dunnit-scenario. ;-)

[The Dark Fiddler]

Unless... He's going for enough strength to be able to ask the most akward question of all to the DM...

"What's the break DC for a planet?"

DM: That depends, what's the break DC for your skull? :smalltongue:

Edit: Also, how about Half-Dragon? Another +8 to Strength, slightly lessens the mental penalties, and gets you a cool breath weapon.

And a Fly speed, since you're large.

[Starbuck_II]

Ok, there are some craaaazy race builds out there, but my friends will be thinking of this for a long time! :smallwink:

A Half-Minotaur Ogre has:
+14 to STR
-2 to DEX
+6 to CON
-6 to INT
-4 to CHA

(Yes the mental modifiers hurt!)

So with: STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
You get: STR: 30 DEX: 14 CON: 22 INT: 4 WIS: 8 CHA: 4

You lose 7 lvls though. :smallfrown:

Why not Cancer Mage? Str over 9000 by level 1 in the Prc. Maybe take a few days. Avoid Remove Disease casting.

[Jack_Simth]

Why not Cancer Mage? Str over 9000 by level 1 in the Prc. Maybe take a few days. Avoid Remove Disease casting.
*Rolls eyes* don't forget the one that gives you infinite natural armor, too, and don't forget the base race that lets you put your bonus spells onto strength, rather than your normal casting statistic.

[Flickerdart]

*Rolls eyes* don't forget the one that gives you infinite natural armor, too, and don't forget the base race that lets you put your bonus spells onto strength, rather than your normal casting statistic.
In that case, don't forget Tainted Scholar.

[Froogleyboy]

what book is half-minotaur from?

[Volkov]

what book is half-minotaur from?

Your hippie mind flayer avatar will give me nightmares for as long as I live...:smalleek:

[sofawall]

what book is half-minotaur from?

One of the Dragon magazines.

Also, the reason it's so broken is it says if you're medium (or maybe smaller, afb) you increase in size category, with all the normal bonuses. Getting mad stats is normal for increasing a size category, but it is argued, as usually you only gain stats for advancing due to HD.

[Doc Roc]

Unless... He's going for enough strength to be able to ask the most akward question of all to the DM...

"What's the break DC for a planet?"

No, and I know this because I used to know the break DC for the planet, and he has a way to go. The most effective way to deal with the planet is to sunder it on a square-by-square basis until you hit the mantle. Do it right, and hard enough, and you can get it to start to give. You may have to drill in four or five times, but the resultant catastrophic volcanic activity should be Good Enough to hit the break DC for civilization.

[Volkov]

No, and I know this because I used to know the break DC for the planet, and he has a way to go. The most effective way to deal with the planet is to sunder it on a square-by-square basis until you hit the mantle. Do it right, and hard enough, and you can get it to start to give. You may have to drill in four or five times, but the resultant catastrophic volcanic activity should be Good Enough to hit the break DC for civilization.

The planet will still be there.

[Cieyrin]

This thing clearly needs some Warhulk in it.

[Doc Roc]

Debatable, actually. I mean, you can technically just keep drilling. We got a character to drill about four miles a round in a 300 foot radius. At that point, still there becomes a really interesting question.

[sofawall]

Destroying the planet is a fantastically difficult task. (http://qntm.org/?geocide)

[Myou]

Debatable, actually. I mean, you can technically just keep drilling. We got a character to drill about four miles a round in a 300 foot radius. At that point, still there becomes a really interesting question.

Tidesinger and I were taking about your post and decided that a Locate City bomb done at the core after carving the mass up (act fast, it'll reform quickly) will destroy the planet by scatterig it's pieces before gravity can remake them into a solid sphere.

[Cieyrin]

Tidesinger and I were taking about your post and decided that a Locate City bomb done at the core after carving the mass up (act fast, it'll reform quickly) will destroy the planet by scatterig it's pieces before gravity can remake them into a solid sphere.

Um...you do realize Tidesinger and Doc Roc are the same person, right? He just changed his name from Tidesinger to Doc Roc, as it's his name on other forums.

[sofawall]

I was wondering why that post made no sense to me.

[SurlySeraph]

Tidesinger and I were taking about your post and decided that a Locate City bomb done at the core after carving the mass up (act fast, it'll reform quickly) will destroy the planet by scatterig it's pieces before gravity can remake them into a solid sphere.

This requires there to be a city at the Earth's core.

[Myou]

Um...you do realize Tidesinger and Doc Roc are the same person, right? He just changed his name from Tidesinger to Doc Roc, as it's his name on other forums.

Hah hah, I completely forgot. xD

[Boci]

This requires there to be a city at the Earth's core.

No it doesn't. Locate city doesn't fail if it is cast on a place with no city, just like detect evil does not fail is there are no evil creatures. The only dodgy thing is that you might not not have line of sight on the earth's core. Not sure if that is required.

[Sholos]

I've never understood that spell. It's got a range, but then the area is centered on you. That makes no sense.

Anyways, it doesn't work with the planet core for a few reasons. One, it's almost certainly out of range. Two, you don't cast Locate City "on" an area. You cast it, and it tells you where the nearest community is, which of course means that the name of the spell is a bit of a misnomer. Three, even if a city existed in the core, and even if you had the range to have it included in the spell, you still wouldn't get that city, because every single other city around is "closer", by definition of the spell, and it only gives you the closest city.

So, yeah. Completely fails as a planet destroying tactic.

[Heliomance]

All the problems listed in the above post can be got around.The real problem is that the Locate City bomb only does massive damage to creatures. It kills people and leaves buildings standing. So unless you awaken the planetary core, it's useless for these purposes.

[Sliver]

I've never understood that spell. It's got a range, but then the area is centered on you. That makes no sense.

Anyways, it doesn't work with the planet core for a few reasons. One, it's almost certainly out of range. Two, you don't cast Locate City "on" an area. You cast it, and it tells you where the nearest community is, which of course means that the name of the spell is a bit of a misnomer. Three, even if a city existed in the core, and even if you had the range to have it included in the spell, you still wouldn't get that city, because every single other city around is "closer", by definition of the spell, and it only gives you the closest city.

So, yeah. Completely fails as a planet destroying tactic.

The complete spell itself cares not for if the spells tells you about a city and how to reach it or not. It just blasts any living creature out of that area and deals them damage. As it is cast in a city, most people won't be blasted to the edge because of objects in their way.. And it won't blast the planet unless its alive, like said before.. Anyway, another problem here is that the spell area is pretty much 2 dimentional, so it is somewhat reasonable to think that creatures that are in the area will just go up a bit and fall, suffering no physical harm.

[ZeroNumerous]

So. Why bother with the Locate City Bomb? If you're being suicidal, then go all the way and just conjure some anti-osmium.

[Boci]

So. Why bother with the Locate City Bomb? If you're being suicidal, then go all the way and just conjure some anti-osmium.

Because its fun to do it with a first level spell. Also, if your an undead caster, you could survive. Or planeshift.

[KellKheraptis]

Well...there's always an auto-widened widened AftS...Extraordinary Spell Aim so you're not caught in ground zero, the usual shennanigans to get out of dying by casting it, and circle magic to raise CL to something nice (like...40). 800 mile radius of vaporized anything, and that is WELL into the mantle. Imagine carving out a circle in the middle of the US that goes from Canada to Mexico, the same distance across on the E/W axis, and equally far down radially from the epicenter. Watch and cackle evilly as the mantle depressurizes, and the planet folds in on itself. The initial shift would cause horrendous tidal movements, combined with some nasty weather effects, as that kind of blast will send crap flying all over the place in the upper atmosphere. Once the initial few moments of crustal shift are finishing up (i.e. the first major chunk in a radius around the blast crater have been drawn into the abyss), you've then got to contend with what will most likely be dust-induced winter (akin to a supervolcano causing a 2-3 year blackout, and ensuing ice age), not to mention the very real possibility of all water being drained off the surface if done in the right location. Add in Twin Spell with a sensor, and some extra actions, and you can have these things going off all around the planet.

And if you REALLY wanna mess things up...use a quickened antigenesis I think it is...on the void in the blast as deep as it'll go. No matter below=gravity pulls more in=no more crust, and less mantle. Massive loss of mass=gravity decreases, so whatever doesn't go poof or drain inward spins off into space (yay, magma in the ozone, until it ignites!), and if you can push the apocalypse that far, you're just spiteful if you continue, as by that point the orbit will radically shift, and chances are the planet will spin off into space, either into a further orbit or into it's sun, depending upon which direction/face you detonated the blast/reduced mass by more upon. AftS with Explosive Spell is also a lot more likely to destroy matter, too ;)

Just my ramblings on the matter...

[AslanCross]

DM: That depends, what's the break DC for your skull? :smalltongue:



I hereby bestow an Internet upon thee.

Seriously, OP, this is assuming your DM will let you do things that will give him a headache. I know I wouldn't let my players do this.

Besides, are you willing to work with that LA? Sometimes it's just not worth it.