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PersonMan
2009-10-03, 05:31 PM
I'll be making a 20th level character for a few solo adventures, and would like to know-what race/class combination can let me cover all of my bases?

I have the following books, in addition to core:
-MMs 3-5
-Drow of the Underdark
-Draconomicon
-Exemplars of Evil
-Fiendish Codex 1&2

I'm playing with a DM who probably won't have very much combat.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 05:34 PM
Define "all your bases" otherwise you'll just get <tier 1 char> as an answer.


It's too bad you don't have dungeonscape, because factotum would be a wonderful "all your bases" char.

PersonMan
2009-10-03, 05:36 PM
Well, I'd like to have good skills, combat ability, spells, healing...I want to be a party. Of one.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 05:38 PM
Well, I'd like to have good skills, combat ability, spells, healing...I want to be a party. Of one.
Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) it is then.

PersonMan
2009-10-03, 05:42 PM
Seems good, but a bit light on attack spells.

Milskidasith
2009-10-03, 05:46 PM
It's a cleric; what were you expecting, Psion levels of blaster power? You can just use summons to fight for you (Go malconvoker!) or use their really broken spells...

Holy Word. At Level 20, you could easily increase your CL by +10, and get a few more CL increases without too much trouble. Kill anything that looks at you funny.

PersonMan
2009-10-03, 05:48 PM
Eh, I was expecting something more along the lines of "Class A/1 Class B/4 Class C/2 Class D/3 Class E/6 Class E/2 Class F/2" or something. I'll look into the Holy Word thing.

Temet Nosce
2009-10-03, 05:52 PM
Eh, I was expecting something more along the lines of "Class A/1 Class B/4 Class C/2 Class D/3 Class E/6 Class E/2 Class F/2" or something. I'll look into the Holy Word thing.

*shrugs*

Erudite (using spell to power)/Ur-Priest/Psionic Theurge? That would effectively net you Psionic, Arcane, and Divine casting... You can use spells that buff skill checks, ditto with combat ability.

Saph
2009-10-03, 05:54 PM
Druid 20 works. You have an animal companion (basically a free Fighter) and summons. So you've effectively got two characters and can get more whenever you feel like it.

You also get a decent skill list (with probably the best Listen and Spot of any character in the game) and a wide variety of spells, including plenty of attack ones.

Your spell power isn't quite up to the level of a Cleric or Wizard, but you get other things to make up for it.

PersonMan
2009-10-03, 05:55 PM
*shrugs*

Erudite (using spell to power)/Ur-Priest/Psionic Theurge? That would effectively net you Psionic, Arcane, and Divine casting... You can use spells that buff skill checks, ditto with combat ability.

Probably true...Seeing as I've never heard of two of those classes, I don't really know if that'd work for me.

Defiant
2009-10-03, 05:55 PM
Ask for gestalt, since that would make your life and choices much easier.

Saph
2009-10-03, 05:56 PM
Pfft, gestalt is for wimps. If you can't make a godlike character given a starting level of 20, you're not trying. :P

Wings of Peace
2009-10-03, 05:57 PM
Rule 1 of soloing a level 20 adventure. Don't ask how you're going to heal, ask how you're going to stay uninjured. :smallsmile:

aje8
2009-10-03, 06:03 PM
Druid 20.

Healing? Check. Combat Ability? Check. Ultiity? Check. Spells? Check.

It's true you don't have skills. But honestly, I'm not sure why you want skills at lv.20 anyway. What skill do you actually use when you're a demi-god of ultimate power?


Pfft, gestalt is for wimps. If you can't make a godlike character given a starting level of 20, you're not trying. :P
+1. You really don't need gesalt at lv. 20.

Myou
2009-10-03, 06:04 PM
Wizard 20.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 06:04 PM
Just to complete our citings.


Wizard 20. Or Wizard5/fullprogression PrCs 15

Archivist 20

Artificer 20

Myou
2009-10-03, 06:10 PM
Just to complete our citings.


Wizard 20. Or Wizard5/fullprogression PrCs 15

Archivist 20

Artificer 20

Always pick Archivist if the DM gives complete free rein in picking spells. If not, there are better options.

Indon
2009-10-03, 06:10 PM
What Saph said, and have a good base Int. You can raise your other stats with magic or items and get everything you would otherwise, but only base int grants delicious skill points.

I'd say 14+ base int, and use a Human. That'll give you 7+ skills to max. If you had access to Races of Destiny, I'd tell you to (be a human and) get Able Learner. Have a skill point in every Knowledge skill.

You might even want to take your first level in Rogue to get find traps and a full skill cap on a litany of what would be CC skills, as potent as Druid is.

Eldariel
2009-10-03, 06:12 PM
So yeah, any unrestricted full caster 20. Or Artificer, who is effectively a full caster. If you want something less powerful, try some Factotum or Rogue or some such; with UMD and sneak, you can still cover practically anything and they're actually better off alone in many scenarios, than with a party thanks to stealth being so much more efficient alone.

Defiant
2009-10-03, 06:15 PM
Oops, never mind, I didn't see that it was a level 20 character (and was even going to suggest telling us what level).

Then yes, any <tier 1 class> 20 will suffice for whatever in the world you want or need to do.

Kallisti
2009-10-03, 06:19 PM
Druid or artificer 20.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-03, 06:32 PM
*shrugs*

Erudite (using spell to power)/Ur-Priest/Psionic Theurge? That would effectively net you Psionic, Arcane, and Divine casting... You can use spells that buff skill checks, ditto with combat ability.

Psh... Erudite doesn't even need Theurge. Dragon Magazine introduced something to make Divine spells Psionic powers, ala Spell to Power. Triple-casting in one class with a class feature that costs no spell slots.

infinitypanda
2009-10-03, 06:36 PM
Psh... Erudite doesn't even need Theurge. Dragon Magazine introduced something to make Divine spells Psionic powers, ala Spell to Power. Triple-casting in one class with a class feature that costs no spell slots.

That is... I mean... how could they... what? Erudite was broken enough as it was, but then with this I don't even know what to say.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-03, 06:40 PM
Well, if you give it only 11 unique powers per day, some compromise might be reached.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-03, 06:41 PM
That is... I mean... how could they... what? Erudite was broken enough as it was, but then with this I don't even know what to say.

Because neither Paizo nor WotC know how to balance a class in 3.5.

I've been saying this for a year now. Besides, Erudites could get any Domain spell off of Arcane Disciple, and any other spell under 9th level via leeching it off of a Recaster or Wyrm Wizard.

Edit:


Well, if you give it only 11 unique powers per day, some compromise might be reached.

And ban every spell that allows them to bypass their Unique Powers/restriction. Arcane Fusion, I'm looking at you!

Volkov
2009-10-03, 06:47 PM
Druid 20.

Healing? Check. Combat Ability? Check. Ultiity? Check. Spells? Check.

It's true you don't have skills. But honestly, I'm not sure why you want skills at lv.20 anyway. What skill do you actually use when you're a demi-god of ultimate power?


+1. You really don't need gesalt at lv. 20.

And then A level 21 wizard comes and kicks the crap out of you.

Kylarra
2009-10-03, 06:51 PM
And then A level 21 wizard comes and kicks the crap out of you.The fact that epic is broken is of no relevance here.

infinitypanda
2009-10-03, 06:58 PM
Well, if you give it only 11 unique powers per day, some compromise might be reached.

I always thought that was 11 unique powers per spell level, but I could be mistaken.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-03, 07:00 PM
I always thought that was 11 unique powers per spell level, but I could be mistaken.

Well, RAW, potentially yes. But RAW on this is unclear. 11 unique powers/spell level is too much, 11 unique powers/level is far too much, and 11 unique powers is far too little. But if you're calling it unbalanced under certain ruling, making other rulings to cut in on its versatility might check it.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-03, 07:03 PM
I always thought that was 11 unique powers per spell level, but I could be mistaken.

Neither of you are wrong. There's a contradiction in the text of the Erudite's ability. One half of it is the original Dragon Magazine version, the other half is Bruce Cordell's interpretation of that same ability. The third interpretation is that the Unique Powers/day is per class level, thus making an Erudite have an effective 220 powers known.


Under two interpretations, it's worth noting that there aren't enough Psionic Powers on the Wilder and Discipline lists to possibly use all of them (this was a hold-over from 3.0, when there were more Psionic powers in the XPH than Core had spells). Under the third, the class is nearly unplayable until 11th level (when Arcane Fusion first becomes available) at which point it exceeds even the Druid.

KellKheraptis
2009-10-03, 07:16 PM
Bamboo Spirit Folk Cloistered Cleric 3/Combat Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 2/Spelldancer 2/Arcane Heirophant 2/Foclucan Lyrist 10
-Double 9's, BAB 16, insta-persisting via Spelldancer, Evasion, Initiate of Mystra

Factotem 8/Beholder Mage 1/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 2 - Our usual PAO shennanigans, 9th arcane, extra actions

Mystic Ranger 20 - Use the mystran sub levels, and pick up versatile spellcaster, to net 9th level arcane through Sword of the Arcane Order. You could even trade out Track for trapfinding.

Ardent 10/Scout 3/Slayer 2/Abjurant Champion 5 - Take Swift Hunter and the ACF Arcane Hunter, then snag the mage-slayer feats, and laugh at those archmagi. Built in recharge with Linked Power and Dominant Ideal ACF.

Kalashar Arcane Swordsage 3/Warblade 1/ArSwSg+1/Swiftblade 10/Incantatrix 3/Warblade+1/ArSwSg+1 - The true master of versatility. IL=CL=ML means you've got a 23 for that, pay to have PsiChir implanted on you, and use psionic tattoos (Getting Rewired, off the WotC website) to build a repertoire of powers. You racially have enough PP for any level power, and if you need more, initiate mental pinnacle. Use a Tome of Arcane Lore, and pick up any divine spell that can possibly be arcane (aka all of them). Oh, and pick up all your normal spells that way too, allowing for all of your maneuver slots to have maneuvers in them. 9th level maneuvers from all but Devoted Spirit possible, and you have spells for that.

There's a start, and a few of my favs. Fair warning though...some are fishy, some are downright TO, and most will get you punched in the throat if you blindside a DM with em :P

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-03, 07:16 PM
Factotum/Chameleon?

Eldariel
2009-10-03, 07:22 PM
Mystic Ranger 20 - Use the mystran sub levels, and pick up versatile spellcaster, to net 9th level arcane through Sword of the Arcane Order. You could even trade out Track for trapfinding.

I really prefer the Swift Hunter version of this due to how Mystic Ranger spellcasting goes; due to Mystic Ranger spellcasting levels maxing out on 10, you'll only get extra slots on the same levels from there on, making the additional levels pretty inefficient.

Since you still want HiPS for a solo game, Mystic Ranger 17/Scout 3 with Swift Hunter seems like the better way to go. Hell, it doesn't even lose any spell slots on 20; Mystic Ranger gets nothing but the 4th FE (which you get anyways) from 18 to 20. Of course, once into epic, you need to use an epic PrC if not finishing Mystic Ranger, but c'est la vie.

Temet Nosce
2009-10-03, 07:56 PM
Psh... Erudite doesn't even need Theurge. Dragon Magazine introduced something to make Divine spells Psionic powers, ala Spell to Power. Triple-casting in one class with a class feature that costs no spell slots.

... The sad thing is I can completely see them doing this (although, didn't StP originally work for both Arcane and Divine as worded?). Nonetheless, I must see this train wreck of an idea myself. Which issue?

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-03, 08:10 PM
... The sad thing is I can completely see them doing this (although, didn't StP originally work for both Arcane and Divine as worded?). Nonetheless, I must see this train wreck of an idea myself. Which issue?

Google says 319. StP only affected Arcane spells, but Divine could be obtained fairly easily.

Let me know if I'm wrong about the differences between the two. I've never read that issue..

Edit: If you meant the Divine conversion, it's one of the most recent issues, prior to WotC buying Dragon Magazine. It may also have been in one of the issues after they bought Dragon, but under WotC's design.

JonestheSpy
2009-10-03, 08:12 PM
And now for something completely different. Here's something in-core (yes, I know the orinial poster is fine using outside core stuff, this is just my take) that's not about spellcasting. Why, because a spell caster has a lot more problems without some folks to hide behind when lobing spells, and all it takes is a couple of encounters involving antimagic, creatures with high spell resistance, etc, and you're in trouble. (Yeah yeah, except for druids).

My one-man band would be the incredibly competent, skilled warrior rogue type - the sort that was featured in so many of the novels and stories that inspired DnD in the first place (you'll notice very few starring roles for optimized spellslingers in classic fantasy). Something like a human Rogue 11/Ranger 5 /Fighter 4. Highly sneaky, good in combat, favored enemies, all sorts of neat stuff. Oh, and just to show that I'm not completely magiphobic, for Crom's sake max the heck out of Use Magic Device - being able to use the wands, staffs, etc of any class is tons o' fun.

Godskook
2009-10-03, 08:19 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned leadership yet...

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-03, 08:23 PM
And now for something completely different. Here's something in-core (yes, I know the orinial poster is fine using outside core stuff, this is just my take) that's not about spellcasting. Why, because a spell caster has a lot more problems without some folks to hide behind when lobing spells, and all it takes is a couple of encounters involving antimagic, creatures with high spell resistance, etc, and you're in trouble. (Yeah yeah, except for druids).

SR isn't a problem for Conjurers.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-03, 08:24 PM
SR isn't a problem for Conjurers.

Same with Antimagic. "What's that? You're casting Orb of Force? Dammit..."

Zaydos
2009-10-03, 08:41 PM
I would say druid is fun; I played a 20th level druid/wizard/hierophant combination which was fun. With mystic theurge you cast spells as a 17th level wizard, 17th level druid and have the animal companion of a 16th level druid but it has a higher intelligence and can benefit from familiar spells. The character could heal, battlefield control, etc. Then again you didn't list Races of the Wild as an option for your game.

I'm not familiar with Drow of the Underdark, or Examplars of Evil so... from Core I'd say I like druid hard to hurt, able to heal, and with a decent offensive list.

Indon
2009-10-03, 08:41 PM
Something like a human Rogue 11/Ranger 5 /Fighter 4. Highly sneaky, good in combat, favored enemies, all sorts of neat stuff. Oh, and just to show that I'm not completely magiphobic, for Crom's sake max the heck out of Use Magic Device - being able to use the wands, staffs, etc of any class is tons o' fun.

With enough UMD, you could make a real Batman - just an ordinary guy who hits hard and has a lot of gadgets.

Of course, you might run into WBL problems with too much UMD usage.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-03, 08:47 PM
Eh, I was expecting something more along the lines of "Class A/1 Class B/4 Class C/2 Class D/3 Class E/6 Class E/2 Class F/2" or something. I'll look into the Holy Word thing.

Use early entry to Mystic Theurge? You'd be only what, one caster level down on cleric, and only a few down on arcane. Reasonably powerful, great variety and volume of spells.

I prefer to avoid gestalt. Highly optimized 20 level gestalt builds make my head hurt.

But yeah, stick with casters. Anyone can stab, especially once hasted, and with an assortment of other buffs off, but stabbing, frankly, is an easy role to fill. Get minions for that.

Which reminds me, leadership and the related feats are fun. Having an assortment of specialists for dealing with mooks, healbotting you, and other such mundane jobs really can be handy for a soloer.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-03, 09:12 PM
With the sources as listed, there's not much to offer other than either Druid or Cleric 20.

If you had some of the Complete series, there might be other options. Most of the suggestions I've seen so far require material from the Complete series, which is not listed on your books available list.

Best bet is Druid with Natural Spell. Everything else is optional. Turn into Dire Bear, with Greater Magic Fang up, and eat things in melee. Can cast Heal and Cure spells, or even better, Summon Nature's Ally IV allows a Unicorn for good amount of healing from a 4th level spell, and can be done spontaneously. Good battlefield control, and moderate blasting ability. Can summon minions to deal with traps.

PersonMan
2009-10-03, 09:44 PM
Huh. So, I ask for some advice, leave twenty or so minutes after I start the thread, make the character, play him and come back, expecting three or four more replies at most, and find that my thread has made it to page 2. Well. Anyways, I decided to play a half-fiend dragonkin Cleric 20 at ECL 26. So...yeah. No real reason for the thread to continue.