the 20 class character.

[Shinizak]

My friend and I were talking the other day and he got me thinking about something. If you were to build a character with 20 levels, but you were only allowed to use one class per level (prestige classes that increase other class levels are allowed though (like mystic theurge)) how versatile could you get the character while still making it a mechanic power house?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Probably the most versatile, yet useless character... getting those prerequisites are gonna hurt

[Foryn Gilnith]

Don't you mean one level per class? Everyone gets one class per level.
I'd probably make a melee build. Pick up all those full BAB classes, quirky abilities, and try to make something like an Ubercharger. Maybe Power Attacking Pounce build. *shrug*

[Shinizak]

Probably the most versatile, yet useless character... getting those prerequisites are gonna hurt

In other words you'd have the perfect character in a game that required you to think on your feet and outside the box, but if in a fight you'd have a better time playing a level 1 mute wizard?

[taltamir]

In other words you'd have the perfect character in a game that required you to think on your feet and outside the box, but if in a fight you'd have a better time playing a level 1 mute wizard?

i disagree, it will not be versatile at all... versatility comes from having more choices and options and ways to solve problems. You will have a variety of very very different abilities, but none of them good enough to be of any use, making you as versatile as a level 20 commoner. (well, slightly more).

1. the only thing it can ever work with is a melee build.
2. the XP penalties for multiclassing will hurt
3. PrC requirement meeting will hurt
4. you might have trouble even finding a possible progression all the way to level 20...
5. a bunch of level 1 cating classes will leave you will LESS total spells known than multiple levels of one class, and those spells are all level 1 and 0 and thus suck at level 20.


Blood Magus is another
Good luck getting killed AND resurrected.

[SilveryCord]

Just make Ur-Priest one of the levels and


I just flipped through books quickly to try and find a way to advance Ur Priest (which already requires two feats ugh) and all of the classes that advance divine casting at their first level while only requiring first level divine casting need many feats. Radiant Servant of Pelor was probably the closest to a good fit................ and there's an issue with that one ;).

I'm thinking.... monk, precocious apprentice wizard, ur priest, sacred fist, mystic theurge, then looking up as many theurge prestige classes as you can possibly apply to ur priest... maybe that can be worked out somehow. I couldn't really think of anything else.

Melee builds with only one class level each are pretty easy, though.

[Starbuck_II]

I just flipped through books quickly to try and find a way to advance Ur Priest (which already requires two feats ugh) and all of the classes that advance divine casting at their first level while only requiring first level divine casting need many feats. Radiant Servant of Pelor was probably the closest to a good fit................ and there's an issue with that one ;).

I'm thinking.... monk, precocious apprentice wizard, ur priest, sacred fist, mystic theurge, then looking up as many theurge prestige classes as you can possibly apply to ur priest... maybe that can be worked out somehow. I couldn't really think of anything else.

Melee builds with only one class level each are pretty easy, though.

Church Inquisitor maybe except the whole Ur Priest hate churches issue.

[JellyPooga]

2. the XP penalties for multiclassing will hurt

I just thought I'd point out that you won't get any multiclass penalties at all, on account of having all your classes (including PrCs) at exactly the same level...

[SilveryCord]

Church Inquisitor maybe except the whole Ur Priest hate churches issue.

That's the problem. It's hard to justify the Ur-Priest really doing anything except..... taking 10 levels of ur-priest.

As for melee builds, random thoughts about what single level dips you should take:
Fighter: bonus feat
Feat-Rogue: bonus feat
Psychic Warrior: bonus feat, expansion
ToB classes: obvious. actually quite nice with how initiator levels work
Monk: Not bad for getting your saves back in shape, depending on whether your DM uses fractional or not
Barbarian: awesome
Bloodstorm Blade: more so
Master Thrower: could be good
Dervish: who knows
You could probably get those in in around 10 levels. God knows what you're going to do afterwards, but you're going to have to find some cheese.

[Haven]

Yeah, ToB classes actually make this rather playable I think.

Something to keep in mind: IIRC you only need first-level spellcasting to get Abjurant Champion. And Abjurant Champion's first level (and the others, of course) is quite good.

Actually I'm imagining a two-weapon build that uses Sneak Attack, Skirmish and Tiger Claw stuff to rather good effect.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

1. Barbarian
2. Fighter
3. Ranger
4. crusader (no neutral)
5. swordsage
6. warblade
7. swashbuckler
Prestige classes
8. Battle trickster (skill and skill trick requirements)
9. Bear warrior (power attack)
10. DragonLord
11. Horizon walker (endurance)


and thats just of the top of my head and avoiding all the strict alignment rules. . . that has full BAB. . . and alot of nifty abilities (and a ginormous fort save). I think the hard part about this would be keeping track of abilities. . .

[Tyndmyr]

Are racial levels, templates, etc allowed? So long as they adhere to the 1 level each limit, of course.

Im envisioning building characters that are relatively cohesive, and work around advancing a single base class, more or less, mostly through massive abuse of single levels of prestige classes and the odd misc level where necessary to span a gap in prereqs.

[Shinizak]

I guess, as long as each LA is exactly +1.

[oxinabox]

I guess, as long as each LA is exactly +1.

t'sa not the LA you have to worry about, LA is an abstraction.
HD is equivielent the CLass levels. (Bad Class level)

Try to put off the ToB levels as late as you can, max out you initiator lvl.
course, this only becomes relevent for Stone Dragon after apoint.
unless you can use manuvers granted by Swordsage to qualify for warblade?


one psywarrior leval, is without value (except the feat) unless you have a power point reserve.


I think Duskblade 1 (or even Sorcorer 1/ wizard), abdurant champion 1, could work.
then i think you might qualify for spellsword 1.
We can get a Gish out of this Yet!

[Haven]

Try to put off the ToB levels as late as you can, max out you initiator lvl.
course, this only becomes relevent for Stone Dragon after apoint.
unless you can use manuvers granted by Swordsage to qualify for warblade?

I don't see why this would make a difference. But yeah, you can use maneuvers from one class to qualify for maneuvers taken as another.

[Ozymandias9]

Actually, this might be workable with a caster. You'll have to burn a couple levels on rogue/factotum 1, but you should be able to get to the PRCs with progression casting and only 1st level spell requirements. I'll see what I can come up with.

Edit: still working
List of PrCs with 1st level Caster level boost
Lion of Talisid (BoED, Sum. NA II, Animal Comp., Good)
Alienist (CAr, Sum. spell 3rd lvl, non lawful)
*Elemental Savant (CAr., 3 spells w/ same elem. descriptor, one 3rd lvl)
Fate Spinner (CAr., 4th lvl spell, at least 1 div spell)
Wayfarer Guide (CAr., Teleport [thus nom. 5th lvl spells])
*Sentinal of Bharrai (BoED, Good)
*Divine Oracle (CD, 2nd lvl divination spells)
Geomancer (CD, 2nd lvl Arc and Div)
Sacred Exorcist (CD, Dismissal or Dispel evil)
Seeker of the Misty Isle (CD, Elf or half elf, 2nd lvl divine spells)
Paragnostic Apostle, (CC, 3rd lvl spells or eq. SLA)
Ruathar (RotW, 3rd lvl spell or 9 ranks in a skill or +6 bab)

Arcane boost only
Mage of the Arc. Order (CAr., Cast and prep 2nd lvl arcane spells)
Initiate of the Sevenfold Vale (CAr., 5 Abj spells, 2 of which >/= 4th lvl)
Geometer (CAr., 3rd lvl spells)
Mindbender (CAr., 5th lvl Ar. CL, charm person, nongood)
Wild Mage (CAr., 1st lvl arcane spells, chaotic)
Abjurant Champion (CM, 1st lvl arc, 1 abjuration spell, 5 bab, 1 martial weapon)
Eldrich Theurge (CM, 2nd lvl arc, 2d6 eldrich blast, least invocation)
Master specialist (CM, 2nd lvl arcane, specialist)
*Unseen Seer (CM, 1st lvl arcane, inc >/=2 div spells)
Blood Magus (CAr, 5th lvl spells, nonlawful)

Only Divine
Shadowbane Stalker (CAd., LG, cast detect evil as divine, sneak attack)
Church Inquisitor (CD. LG or LN, cast zone of truth as divine [2nd lvl])
Contemplative (CD., 1st lvl div spells, contact with deity or rep)
Rad Serv. of Pelor (CD, NG, 1st lvl div, Pelor as patron, sun domain)
Sacred Fist (CD, 1st lvl div sp)
Stormlord (CD, 3rd lvl div sp, Talos as patron)
Holt Warden (CC, 3rd lvl div, entangle, barkskin, and plant growth)

Arc and Div
*Mystic Theurge (DMG, 2nd Arc& Div)
Fochlucan Lyricist (CAd., 1st arc& div, druidic, neutral and nonlawful, bardic knowledge, evasion)
*Arcane Hierophant (RotW, 2nd both, trackless step)

Other notable
Wonderworker (BoED, 3rd lvl spells) no CL boot, only Spells per day boost
Virtuoso (CAd., 1st arc) alt. source of bardic music for FLyric.
Lyric Thaumaturge (CM, 2nd arcane, bard music 5/day) bard spell prog

[Zovc]

Actually, I'm sure there are plenty of classes intended for "gishes (/etc)" that only require first level spellcasting (arcane or divine). It shouldn't be too hard to get like 10th level wizard casting or so. I'll see what I can do.

[Ozymandias9]

Actually, I'm sure there are plenty of classes intended for "gishes (/etc)" that only require first level spellcasting (arcane or divine). It shouldn't be too hard to get like 10th level wizard casting or so. I'll see what I can do.

I think we can get 16 in either wizard or druid (possibly cleric), or 14 in one and 5 in the other (w/ MT and AH).

[aje8]

EDIT: Sorta ninja'd

Actually, theres no need for Rogue or factotum for a while assuming your list is accurate. I'm not going to check it because I'm too lazy to hit the books and look up a billion classes.

Wizard 1/Wildmage 1/Divine Oracle 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 11/Master Specalist 1
gets you 3rd level spells. Note that you're chaotic, 2 of your 1st level spells are Divination and that you've take cooperative spell and spell focus(conj).

This qualifies you for:
Elemental Savant 1/Alienist 1/Paranostic Apostle 1 qualifing you for Fate Spinner 1

Which gives a CL of 9 and 5th level spells, thus:
Wayfarer Guide 1/Mindbender 1

But.... you'd probably have a lot of requisite feats to meet and maybe not enough slots, I haven't checked it out yet.

[Ozymandias9]

EDIT: Sorta ninja'd

Actually, theres no need for Rogue or factotum for a while assuming your list is accurate. I'm not going to check it because I'm too lazy to hit the books and look up a billion classes.

Wizard 1/Wildmage 1/Divine Oracle 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 11/Master Specalist 1
gets you 3rd level spells. Note that you're chaotic, 2 of your 1st level spells are Divination and that you've take cooperative spell and spell focus(conj).

This qualifies you for:
Elemental Savant 1/Alienist 1/Paranostic Apostle 1 qualifing you for Fate Spinner 1

Which gives a CL of 9 and 5th level spells, thus:
Wayfarer Guide 1/Mindbender 1

But.... you'd probably have a lot of requisite feats to meet and maybe not enough slots, I haven't checked it out yet.

I was leaving out some fairly harsh skill requirements: the classes that only require first level spells have skill requirements that need 5+ levels. I'm throwing in human paragon for the proof of concept. The feats aren't a problem so far, oddly enough. Though I do have to take some pretty sub optimal ones for entry.

[Zovc]

From the looks of it, you'll have trouble being a good spellcaster. XP

Using Wizard and Cleric as the spellcasting basises, this was the best I could do:
(As a side note, I didn't consider whether or not one could possibly get enough skill points or even feats to do this--you might want to consider a level of Expert/Factotum to help set you up for the obscure skills needed for this.)

Warblade (Tome of Battle
Duskblade (Player's Handbook II)
Barbarian (PHB)
Fighter (PHB)
Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior)
(BAB +5, 5 classes) [There may be better class choices]

Domain Wizard: Divnation (Unearthed Arcana) [Not sure if domain wizard is necessary]
->Bladesinger (Complete Warrior) [Requires Elf/Half-Elf]
->Wild Mage (Complete Arcane) [Requires Chaotic alignment]
*2nd level arcane spells acquired, 3 classes--total 8

Cloistered Cleric
->Divine Oracle (Complete Divine)
->Earth Dreamer (Races of Stone)
*2nd level divine spells acquired, 3 classes--total 11

Mystic Theurge gets you to "4/4" spells, but doesn't give you 3rd level spells.
->Spellsword (Complete Warrior) to Arcane
->Ruthar (Races of the Wild) to Divine
*3rd level arcane and divine spells acquired--total 14

I can list some other classes I've found, but you probably need to be taking skill monkey classes for the other six levels in order to qualify for all these prestige classes.

((I would do the math, but I'm really tired. Maybe tomorrow--but don't count on it.))

[aje8]

Ozy, if we can actually reach CL 16, then we need just ONE more level to be golden. 17 casting levels//3 others=pure win! Who cares what else you take when you have time stop. Seriously, that sounds promising.

Also remember that you could perhaps use precious apprentice qualification cheese if you need it.

Honestly, sacrificing all skills and feats doesn't really matter with pseudo full casting.

[Ozymandias9]

Ozy, if we can actually reach CL 16, then we need just ONE more level to be golden. 17 casting levels//3 others=pure win! Who cares what else you take when you have time stop. Seriously, that sounds promising.

Also remember that you could perhaps use precious apprentice qualification cheese if you need it.

Honestly, sacrificing all skills and feats doesn't really matter with pseudo full casting.

I really don't think we can. I can't find a PrC with caster progression at 1st level that I can get into before 5th level. The only thing I can find that's close is Drow Paragon, but that eats 2 levels for being emo.

[dspeyer]

You can get all of ur-priest. I worked it out last time this came up:


A half-elf can do full divine in 17 levels without repeating a class. Here's the progression in classes (and feats).

factotum (iron will)
rogue
wizard (precocious apprentice) (scribe scroll(b))
scout
ranger
swordsage (spell focus(evil))
half-elf paragon (metamagic (b))
ur-priest
divine oracle
mystic theurge (skill focus(knowledge(religion)))
geomancer
seeker of the misty isle
contemplative (energy subsitution)
loremaster
elemental savant
Hierophant (augment summoning)
alienist

For the last three levels, it's probably best to use ToB prestige classes (since all the irreleevant levels count toward available manuevers, and that early swordsage should provide prerequisites). Alternatively, there should be some easy ways to advance wizard casting.

Maybe this forum should have a FAQ?

[Ozymandias9]

You can get all of ur-priest. I worked it out last time this came up:

Ah. Hadn't considered Ur-Priest progression. Should work with Apostle of Peace too, though that's wishy-washy spell list.

Since that's answered, I'll look at what I can do with arcane progression without cheese (with early 2nd level cheese, it would be trivial).

[Zovc]

Are we necessarily trying to get as much casting progression in one class as possible? I was under the impression we wanted to make a "ready for anything" character that is as far from Wizard 20 as possible. >.>

[Eloel]

A Wiz20 is readier to everything than any skill/melee build you can put out.

[Kylarra]

I really don't think we can. I can't find a PrC with caster progression at 1st level that I can get into before 5th level. The only thing I can find that's close is Drow Paragon, but that eats 2 levels for being emo.Master specialist is enterable after 3rd level. Just need that spell focus feat.

[Ozymandias9]

Master specialist is enterable after 3rd level. Just need that spell focus feat.

No, it's not. It requires 2nd level spells for entry, and we're limited to 1 level per class.

[Kylarra]

No, it's not. It requires 2nd level spells for entry, and we're limited to 1 level per class.
Mmm, cheat with precocious + focused?

[Ozymandias9]

Mmm, cheat with precocious + focused?

Like I said, it's trivial with early entry cheese. There are a couple classes that can get you in with 2nd level spells if you can get them earlier than intended. But without that, you can't seem to get into any relevant Prc's till you've burned 5 levels.

The most annoying option is probably Drow (LA2)/Wizard/Drow paragon (male) and entering at 5 instead of 6. But I'm reading the LA 2 as not meeting the one level per class requirement, which thankfully makes the that a non-option.

The most promising thing I've seen is Paragnostic Apostle from Complete Champion. The entry explicitly allows a 3rd level spell like ability as an alternative to a 3rd level spell for entry, and the skill requirements are only 5 each. Just have to figure out a way to get a 3rd level SLA before 5th level.

[Xenogears]

Isn't there a lesser drow varient that would still qualify for drow paragon?

[Ozymandias9]

I give up. Short of cheesing it, I can't come up with a way to hit an arcane caster level above 16. There are a couple of LA+1 races that would meet the Paragnostic Apostle entry requirement, but that shaves a level off the progression if we're looking at capping ECL at 20. Since there isn't another class that can get in that early, you're still stuck with only 1st level spells till level 5, and the fact that you get to 2nd level spells at 6 instead of 7 evens out with the LA.

If we're just aiming for 20 HD, then it can be accomplished through several 1HD races with level adjustments. Male drow can get it through their racial paragon class. Aasimar can get it through using their daylight SLA to qualify for Paragnostic Apostle (as can anything else with a SLA equivalent to a 3rd level or greater spell). But honestly, this seems more like cheating that using cheese like Precocious Apprentice.

[DragoonWraith]

Here's my answer (finally). It assumes fractional BAB, and it also assumes alignment restrictions are not in force. With alignment restrictions, you'd have to choose somewhat different +1 casting class PrCs (but there are plenty of those to go around so that's not a huge problem):
{table=head]Level|Class|Variant|Requirements|BAB|Features|Norm al Feats|Prep. Sp. Lv.|Spont. Sp. Lv.|Spellcasting of...
Human|||||Bonus Feat and Skill Points|Able Learner
1st|Abjurer|Fighter Feats, Focused Specialist||0.5|Endurance, Familiar|Precocious Apprentice|2nd||Wizard
2nd|Bard||Non-Lawful|1.25|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1||2nd|1st|Bard
3rd|Crusader|||2.25|Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve|Chain Spell (or any other MM)|2nd|1st|
4th|Monk|Chaos, Illuminated|Chaotic|3|Skill Focus (Spellcraft)||2nd|1st|
5th|Warblade|||4|Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude||2nd|1st|
6th|Fighter|Bodyguard||5|Iron Will|Combat Casting|2nd|1st|
7th|Horizon Walker||Endurance|6|Desert Terrain Mastery||2nd|1st|
8th|Suel Arcanamach||+6 BAB, Iron Will, Combat Casting|7|Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells||2nd|1st|Suel Arcanamach
9th|Ultimate Magus||Spont. Arc. Spells 1st, Prep. Arc. Spells 2nd, any Metamagic|7.5|Spell Power +1|Spell Focus (Abjuration)|2nd|2nd|Suel Arcanamach
10th|Abjurant Champion||+5 BAB, Combat Casting, Arc. Spells 1st|8.5|Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration||2nd|3rd|Suel Arcanamach
11th|Sublime Chord||Spont. Arc. Spells 3rd, Bardic Music|9|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore||2nd|5th|Sublime Chord
12th|Incantatrix||Arc. Spells 3rd, any Metamagic|9.5|Bonus Feat: Cooperative Spell|Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)|2nd|5th|Sublime Chord
13th|Mage of the Arcane Order||Cooperative Spell, any other Metamagic, Prep. Arc. Spells 2nd|10|Spellpool I||2nd|6th|Sublime Chord
14th|Sacred Exorcist||Good, Cast Dismissal|10.5|Exorcism, Turn Undead||2nd|6th|Sublime Chord
15th|Paragnostic Apostle||Spells 3rd|11|Holy Texts, Knowledge is Power, Lore|Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)|2nd|7th|Sublime Chord
16th|Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil||Cast five Abjurations, two Abjurations 4th level or higher, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)|11.5|Warding 1/day, Unimpeachable Abjuration, Red Veil||2nd|7th|Sublime Chord
17th|Fatespinner||Spells 4th|12|Spin Fate||2nd|8th|Sublime Chord
18th|Mindbender||Non-Good, Cast Charm Person|12.5|Telepathy|Spell Focus (Transmutation)|2nd|8th|Sublime Chord
19th|Archmage||Arc. Spells 7th, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (any school) x2|13|High Arcana||2nd|9th|Sublime Chord
20th|Wayfarer Guide||Cast Teleport|13.5|Enhanced Capacity, Improved Range||2nd|9th|Sublime Chord[/table]
With alignment restrictions, you need to choose between Sacred Exorcist and Mindbender, since they're mutually exclusive, and take some other PrC.

Sublime Chord Caster level is 16, 17 if you take the Spell Power High Arcana. You have 4th through 9th level Arcane Spellcasting from the Bard, Sorcerer, and Wizard spell lists, plus 0th and 1st (2nd for Abjurations) level Wizard spells, 0th and 1st level Bard spells, and 1st through 3rd level spells of the Abjuration, Divination, Illusion, and Transmutation schools from the Wizard and Sorcerer spell list, and the ability to "call" 1st through 3rd level Sorcerer/Wizard spells with the Spellpool ability. You need 12 Int, but that's hardly burdensome. You won't have a ton of extra skill points to throw around, but you will have some. Other than that, well, 19 Cha is necessary to cast those spells, but you'll want more than that anyway.


Without Precocious Apprentice + Focused Specialist, MotAO is impossible (or annoying because you have to devote two levels of what could be Sublime Chord spellcasting to Wizard, losing 9th level spells, or somehow fit Arcane Preparation into this), but without MotAO you can ditch Cooperative Spell, ditch Chain Spell, ditch Incantatrix, and do something else. It would probably free up a lot of feats. You also can't use Ultimate Magus, which is annoying, because the Spell Power bit is so nice. I'm sure there are options for this, though.

A flaw makes some of this quite easy, two makes the entire build trivial, since you could fit Arcane Preparation in there.


I think what I like best about the character is that he's not too all over the place. He definitely has some themes going on there, with the heavy abjuration and the several divine classes (Crusader, Sacred Exorcist, Paragnostic Apostle). I wanted to put Divine Oracle, too, but getting Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion)) wasn't going to happen. If it did, you could get Loremaster, though, which would be kind of neat, giving you four classes that give Bardic Knowledge/Lore. Might actually fit the theme better, hmm...

You're also a member of the Paragnostic Assembly, the Arcane Order, the Wayfarer's Guild, and the Sevenfold Veil. I don't believe there are any particular conflicts between these factions, though.

[Reaper_Monkey]

Here's my answer (finally). It assumes fractional BAB, and it also assumes alignment restrictions are not in force.

I'm glad you pointed those out, I was just about to state similar. If you don't have fractional BAB and saves (you would get awfully overcharging with lots of +2's granted at first level) your character would quickly fall out of expected values for these things. And alignment restriction would utterly destroy several characters chances of becoming complete when it comes to adding PrC. As stated however, you never have to worry about multi-classing penalties again! But skills might be a headache to work out what with a new unique list of "class skills" each level, might be well suited towards a more fighter based character which aint as reliant on their skills.

[Kobold-Bard]

In other words you'd have the perfect character in a game that required you to think on your feet and outside the box, but if in a fight you'd have a better time playing a level 1 mute wizard?

Think on feet + Think outside box + Ready for anything = Factotum

And he's definitely not as bad as a mute Wizard.

[paddyfool]

How about a skillmonkey build? For maximum skillpoints etc., I'd suggest something like this:

Race: Human
Highest stat: Int
Level 1 feats: Able Learner + any skill feat
Level 1 class: Factotum (Fac with Able Learner gives all skills at full cap... slightly cheesy, but hey)
Then... Rogue, Scout, Ranger, Bard, Exemplar, Dungeon Delver, Spymaster, and any other classes that give 6 or 8 + Int skill points, and lots more skill-boosting feats. 1 level dips in Arcane and Divine classes to grab some level 1 skill-boosting spells could also be handy... although all I see in core for this are Jump and Expeditious Retreat (enhances jumping distance), which between them, and combined with Featherfall in case of mishap, could make a character capable of entertaining feats of acrobatics (in 1-minute bursts, anyway).

[woodenbandman]

Human with 2 flaws

Earth Sense, Precocious Apprentice, Heighten Spell, Earth Spell

Focused Specialist Conjuror (prepare heightened grease or something)1
Beguiler1
Druid1 (if you qualify for Ur-Priest, use that instead), Spontaneous Divine Caster, Versatile Spellcaster
Mystic Theurge1
Ultimate Magus1

At this point you can cast 3rd level arcane spells, so just take a bunch of arcane spellcasting +1 classes. if you work on advancing Ur-priest a lot you can probably get double nines with Sublime Chord.

[Zovc]

A class I forgot about is the Abjurant Champion, that's a pretty easy class to enter.

For the meantime, I'll replace Bladesinger with Abjurant Champion while calculating skill points and feats.

{TABLE]Level|Class|HD|Fractional BAB|Feats Taken|Skill Points|Wizard Casting|Cleric Casting
1st|Factotum|d8|+0.75|Able Learner|4(6+Int)|None|None|
2nd|Wizard (Fighter feat variant)|d4|+1.25|Combat Expertise|2+Int|Level 1 (1st)|None
3rd|Cloistered Cleric|d6|+1.75|Earth Sense|6+Int|Level 1 (1st)|Level 1 (1st)
4th|Fighter|d10|+2.75|Bonus (Combat Casting)|2+Int|Level 1 (1st)|Level 1 (1st)
5th|Crusader|d10|+3.75|None|4+Int|Level 1 (1st)|Level 1 (1st)
6th|Swashbuckler|d10|+4.75|Magical Aptitude|4+Int|Level 1(1st)|Level 1 (1st)[/TABLE]

So far you have 42 + 9(Int) Skill points. The maximum rank you can have in a skill is 10. For all the prestige classes I mentioned previously (substituting Bladesinger with Abjurant Champion), you need a total of 37 skill points spent.

Skills you need to take:
{TABLE]Skill Name|Ranks|Class (Needed)|Spent
Knowledge (Arcana)|6|Spellsword (6)|6
Knowledge (Nature)|5|Earth Dreamer (5)|11
Knowledge (The Planes)|4|Wild Mage (4)|15
Knowledge (Religion)|8|Divine Oracle(8)|23
Spellcraft|10|Wild Mage (8), Earth Dreamer (10)|33
Use Magic Device|4|Wild Mage (4)|37
[/TABLE]

You have all the skills you need to qualify for Spellsword, Earth Dreamer, Wild Mage, Divine Oracle, and Abjurant Champion.

You've got Combat Casting, so you just need the +5BAB to get in to Abjurant Champion. Wild Mage is going to require two feats (Magical Aptitude and a Metamagic Feat) to get in to.

A level of Half-Elf Paragon (Unearthed Arcana) will get you a bonus feat and +0.75 BAB.

If your 6th level bonus feat is Magical Aptitude, you can choose a Metamagic Feat with a level of Half-Elf Paragon (or the other way around).

Continued Progression:
{TABLE]Level|Class|HD|Fractional BAB|Feats Taken|Skill Points|Wizard Casting|Cleric Casting
7th|Half-Elf Paragon|d8|+5.50|Bonus (Metamagic Feat)|4+Int|Level 1 (1st)|Level 1 (1st)
8th|Abjurant Champion|d10|+6.50|None|2+Int|Level 2 (1st)|Level 1 (1st)|
9th|Wild Mage|d4|+7.00|Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)|2+Int|Level 3 (2nd)|Level 1 (1st)[/TABLE]

You've now qualified for the arcane side of Mystic Theurge and your two divine casting progressors--you'll be a Mystic Theurge at level 12.

{TABLE]Level|Class|HD|Fractional BAB|Feats Taken|Skill Points|Wizard Casting|Cleric Casting
10th|Divine Oracle|d6|+7.50|None|2+Int|Level 3 (2nd)|Level 2 (1st)
11th|Earth Dreamer|d4|+8.00|None|2+Int|Level 3 (2nd)|Level 3 (2nd)
12th|Mystic Theurge|d4|+8.50|Dodge|2+Int|Level 4 (2nd)|Level 4 (2nd)
13th|Swordsage|d8|+9.25|Weapon Focus (Rapier)|6+Int|Level 4 (2nd)|Level 4 (2nd)[/TABLE]

Seven levels left. I decided to qualify for Bladesinger using Swordsage (Domain Focus, Diamond Mind) and the Fighter Feat variant wizard (Unarthed Arcana).

There are some skills you need to invest in in order to take Bladesinger, you shouldn't have trouble getting this: Balance 2, Concentration 4, Perform (Dance) 2, Perform (Sing) 2, Tumble 2. (That's 12 ranks)

{TABLE]Level|Class|HD|Fractional BAB|Feats Taken|Skill Points|Wizard Casting|Cleric Casting
14th|Spellsword|d8|+10.25|None|2+Int|Level 5 (3rd)|Level 4 (2nd)
15th|Bladesinger|d8|+11.25|Level Feat|2+Int|Level 6 (3rd)|Level 4 (2nd)
16th|Ruathar|d6|+12.00|None|4+Int|Level 6 (3rd)|Level 5 (3rd)[/TABLE]

What you do from here is up to you. :3

You probably want Mindbender or Incantrix for your Wizard progression, and maybe some way to capitalze on your gishdom.

If you want to try to add Psionics, you'll need quite a bit of stuff. You need to be a 3rd level psion to manifest 2nd level powers and 5th level psion for 3rd level powers. I don't think you can psion manifesting to 5th level taking one level in every class.

Level 1 Psion taking Overchannel as a bonus feat practically qualifies you for Anarchic Initiate (You need skill points in addition to Overchannel).
Anarchic Initiate gives you +1 to your manifestor level.
Elocator gives you another +1 to your manifestor level, you need Mobility and Spring Attack to qualify for this class.
If you can take both of those, you then qualify for Cerebromancer which will make you a 4th level manifestor and get you 4th level wizard (level 7 casting) spells. It could be done.

[Ozymandias9]

{The Answer}

Hooray! Sublime Chord: there's the answer. You don't even need the Precocious Apprentice or Suel Arcanamach levels. You can progress the wizard casting far enough to get into Sublime Chord in time. Unseen Seer from Complete Mage just requires 8 in a couple of skills (so level 5) and Sentinal of Bharrai from BoED requires the same with a couple feats. That should get you up to 2nd level wizard spells by 7, and 3rd by 9. You'll actually have a level to burn before you can meet the skill entry requirements for Sublime Chord. And then you just progress that from 11 to 20.

[Zovc]

Hooray! Sublime Chord: there's the answer. You don't even need the Precocious Apprentice or Suel Arcanamach levels. You can progress the wizard casting far enough to get into Sublime Chord in time. Unseen Seer from Complete Mage just requires 8 in a couple of skills (so level 5) and Sentinal of Bharrai from BoED requires the same with a couple feats. That should get you up to 2nd level wizard spells by 7, and 3rd by 9. You'll actually have a level to burn before you can meet the skill entry requirements for Sublime Chord. And then you just progress that from 11 to 20.

Wait... are you suggesting we take 10 levels of Sublime Chord? XD

[Ozymandias9]

Wait... are you suggesting we take 10 levels of Sublime Chord? XD

Only the caster progression part. And 9 would technically work. Its the only way you're getting 9th level arcane spells without cheese in this exercise.

[DragoonWraith]

The issue with that is that Sublime Chord requires spontaneous casting. You can get spontaneous Wizard casting, but that strikes me as a lot cheesier than just using Suel Arcanamach. Also, the Arcanamach has Cha based spells, which is nice because Sublime Chord does as well. My build is possible with 12 Int, I believe, and certainly possible with 14, and the rest can be Cha.

[Zovc]

The issue with that is that Sublime Chord requires spontaneous casting. You can get spontaneous Wizard casting, but that strikes me as a lot cheesier than just using Suel Arcanamach. Also, the Arcanamach has Cha based spells, which is nice because Sublime Chord does as well. My build is possible with 12 Int, I believe, and certainly possible with 14, and the rest can be Cha.

I must admit, my build is quite MAD, but it is a gish. It only casts level 3 Wizard and Cleric spells, so you only need 13 to cast the spells, 14 to get +2 to your saves. The build I presented shouldn't be treated as a level 20 character, I don't think. He'll have a lot of cool abilities, but won't be very good with many of them. I'd say that even with all the effort to give him good casting, you should primarily worry about fighting or being a skillmonkey. If there was some way for you to use your spells as swift actions, you'd become a significantly better character.

[DragoonWraith]

Well, my goal was 9th level Arcane spellcasting, not gish-ness. If you found several more 1 BAB or even 3/4 BAB +1 existing spellcasting class classes, though, he probably could be.

[Ozymandias9]

The issue with that is that Sublime Chord requires spontaneous casting. You can get spontaneous Wizard casting, but that strikes me as a lot cheesier than just using Suel Arcanamach. Also, the Arcanamach has Cha based spells, which is nice because Sublime Chord does as well. My build is possible with 12 Int, I believe, and certainly possible with 14, and the rest can be Cha.

I don't see the spontaneous requirement anywhere in the Complete Arcane entry. If you mean that it would need Int in addition to Charisma, that's true, but you're only looking at 3rd level spells: that's a measly Int of 13. If you're especially concerned about your bonus spells for 0-3rd, you could progress sorcerer instead of Wizard (Wizard leaves one extra level, so sorcerer would work).

Also, looking at CAr, I'm seeing Suel Arcanamach getting 3rd level spells at 4th level, not 3rd.

{table=head]Level|Class|Variant|Requirements|BAB|Features|Norm al Feats|Prep. Sp. Lv.|Spont. Sp. Lv.|Spellcasting of...
Human|||||Bonus Feat and Skill Points|Sacred Vow
1st|Wizard|Specialist with divination not banned||0.5|Scribe Scroll, Familiar|Vow of Obedience|1st||Wizard
2nd|Bard||Non-Lawful|1.25|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1||1st|1st|Bard
3rd|Crusader|||2.25|Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve|Combat Casting|1st|1st|
4th|Fighter|||3.25|*(fighter)||1st|1st|
5th|Factotum|||4|||1st|1st|
6th|Unseen Seer||8 ranks in some skills, 2 divination spells|4.75|+1d6 sneak attack or equivelent|Spell Focus(Specialist school)|1st|1st|Wizard
7th|Sentinal of Bharrai||Sacred Vow, Vow of Obedience, 8 in some skills|5.25|Nature Friendly Spells, Track||2nd|1st|Wizard
8th|Abjurant Champion||+5 BAB, Mart. Weap. Prof., 1 divination spell, Combat Casting |6.25|Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration||2nd|1st|Wizard
9th|Master Specialist||Spell Focus (Specialist School), 2nd level arcane spells|6.75|Skill Focus (Spellcraft)|*|3rd|1st|Wizard(5)
10th|What Have you|||6.75+L(10)|||||
11th|Sublime Chord||Spont. Arc. Spells 3rd, Bardic Music|7.35+L(10)|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore||3rd|4th|Sublime Chord[/table]

[Bayar]

A Wiz20 is readier to everything than any skill/melee build you can put out.

That could be debatable.Artificiers get infusions, can put any arcane/divine spells into magic items and cast those spells with UMD checks, have better BAB, more skill points, are not affected by ASF, gets any spell 2 levels before anyone else can get it at the cost of 2 lover caster levels (which are temporary...until he levels up to the items caster level), ...

Honestly, the wizard can have some spells prepared in a day. The artificier could have any spell scribed in his haversack/magic scrollcase. Think it would be much more versatile than wizards. Or clerics. Maybe not druids (not until level 15 anyway).

[imp_fireball]

Here's my answer (finally). It assumes fractional BAB, and it also assumes alignment restrictions are not in force. With alignment restrictions, you'd have to choose somewhat different +1 casting class PrCs (but there are plenty of those to go around so that's not a huge problem):
{table=head]Level|Class|Variant|Requirements|BAB|Features|Norm al Feats|Prep. Sp. Lv.|Spont. Sp. Lv.|Spellcasting of...
Human|||||Bonus Feat and Skill Points|Able Learner
1st|Abjurer|Fighter Feats, Focused Specialist||0.5|Endurance, Familiar|Precocious Apprentice|2nd||Wizard
2nd|Bard||Non-Lawful|1.25|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1||2nd|1st|Bard
3rd|Crusader|||2.25|Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve|Chain Spell (or any other MM)|2nd|1st|
4th|Monk|Chaos, Illuminated|Chaotic|3|Skill Focus (Spellcraft)||2nd|1st|
5th|Warblade|||4|Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude||2nd|1st|
6th|Fighter|Bodyguard||5|Iron Will|Combat Casting|2nd|1st|
7th|Horizon Walker||Endurance|6|Desert Terrain Mastery||2nd|1st|
8th|Suel Arcanamach||+6 BAB, Iron Will, Combat Casting|7|Ignore Spell Failure 5%, Tenacious Spells||2nd|1st|Suel Arcanamach
9th|Ultimate Magus||Spont. Arc. Spells 1st, Prep. Arc. Spells 2nd, any Metamagic|7.5|Spell Power +1|Spell Focus (Abjuration)|2nd|2nd|Suel Arcanamach
10th|Abjurant Champion||+5 BAB, Combat Casting, Arc. Spells 1st|8.5|Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration||2nd|3rd|Suel Arcanamach
11th|Sublime Chord||Spont. Arc. Spells 3rd, Bardic Music|9|Bardic Music, Bardic Lore||2nd|5th|Sublime Chord
12th|Incantatrix||Arc. Spells 3rd, any Metamagic|9.5|Bonus Feat: Cooperative Spell|Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)|2nd|5th|Sublime Chord
13th|Mage of the Arcane Order||Cooperative Spell, any other Metamagic, Prep. Arc. Spells 2nd|10|Spellpool I||2nd|6th|Sublime Chord
14th|Sacred Exorcist||Good, Cast Dismissal|10.5|Exorcism, Turn Undead||2nd|6th|Sublime Chord
15th|Paragnostic Apostle||Spells 3rd|11|Holy Texts, Knowledge is Power, Lore|Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)|2nd|7th|Sublime Chord
16th|Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil||Cast five Abjurations, two Abjurations 4th level or higher, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)|11.5|Warding 1/day, Unimpeachable Abjuration, Red Veil||2nd|7th|Sublime Chord
17th|Fatespinner||Spells 4th|12|Spin Fate||2nd|8th|Sublime Chord
18th|Mindbender||Non-Good, Cast Charm Person|12.5|Telepathy|Spell Focus (Transmutation)|2nd|8th|Sublime Chord
19th|Archmage||Arc. Spells 7th, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (any school) x2|13|High Arcana||2nd|9th|Sublime Chord
20th|Wayfarer Guide||Cast Teleport|13.5|Enhanced Capacity, Improved Range||2nd|9th|Sublime Chord[/table]
With alignment restrictions, you need to choose between Sacred Exorcist and Mindbender, since they're mutually exclusive, and take some other PrC.

Sublime Chord Caster level is 16, 17 if you take the Spell Power High Arcana. You have 4th through 9th level Arcane Spellcasting from the Bard, Sorcerer, and Wizard spell lists, plus 0th and 1st (2nd for Abjurations) level Wizard spells, 0th and 1st level Bard spells, and 1st through 3rd level spells of the Abjuration, Divination, Illusion, and Transmutation schools from the Wizard and Sorcerer spell list, and the ability to "call" 1st through 3rd level Sorcerer/Wizard spells with the Spellpool ability. You need 12 Int, but that's hardly burdensome. You won't have a ton of extra skill points to throw around, but you will have some. Other than that, well, 19 Cha is necessary to cast those spells, but you'll want more than that anyway.


Without Precocious Apprentice + Focused Specialist, MotAO is impossible (or annoying because you have to devote two levels of what could be Sublime Chord spellcasting to Wizard, losing 9th level spells, or somehow fit Arcane Preparation into this), but without MotAO you can ditch Cooperative Spell, ditch Chain Spell, ditch Incantatrix, and do something else. It would probably free up a lot of feats. You also can't use Ultimate Magus, which is annoying, because the Spell Power bit is so nice. I'm sure there are options for this, though.

A flaw makes some of this quite easy, two makes the entire build trivial, since you could fit Arcane Preparation in there.


I think what I like best about the character is that he's not too all over the place. He definitely has some themes going on there, with the heavy abjuration and the several divine classes (Crusader, Sacred Exorcist, Paragnostic Apostle). I wanted to put Divine Oracle, too, but getting Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion)) wasn't going to happen. If it did, you could get Loremaster, though, which would be kind of neat, giving you four classes that give Bardic Knowledge/Lore. Might actually fit the theme better, hmm...

You're also a member of the Paragnostic Assembly, the Arcane Order, the Wayfarer's Guild, and the Sevenfold Veil. I don't believe there are any particular conflicts between these factions, though.

There needs to be a name for all those classes combined together.

How about 'Divine Spell Slinger of Union'? :smallbiggrin: