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sadi
2009-10-04, 02:15 AM
Inspired by http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7040508&postcount=16 I want to see about building a combat fiddle/violin. Instead of just using it as a bludgeoning weapon, use the bow as a slashing weapon. Something like maybe a darkwood bow with mithril for all the strings on it. Is this really feasible, and if so what type of hardness and hps would this have?

Any additional ways to increase those numbers would be appreciated, I'd like to be able to use it more than once before one of the other pcs gets jealous about the fact that I'm not a generic fighter like them who has no depth and decides to try to sunder it.

Xenogears
2009-10-04, 02:22 AM
Well you can make the base instrument out of riverine (I think that was the name. Basically water encased in a wall of force effect) or that material from the BoED that reforms after it gets sundered to prevent jerks from ruining your day. Also either option would make the instrument a viable weapon due to extreme hardness/who cares if it exploded it's fine now. Not sure about the string though since in order to still be a string most of the hard materials seem odd...

Maybe a force effect but that would be ludicrously powerful as a weapon so probably no go there. Any of the metals would be silly to explain. I suppose elven or mithril or both would be best since they are lightweight.

sadi
2009-10-05, 08:45 PM
The only thing I found in BOED that did that started with an a, aurorum or something, specifically states it is a type of steel. I don't think a musical instrument is going to be made of steel.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-05, 08:58 PM
I've seen such a weapon used in a game once, and we ruled that any such unique weapon had to be at least masterwork, since it's not the sort of weapon you can reasonably expect anyone short of a master craftman to make for you, and they certainly wouldn't just be lying around.

In our case, we had the bow count as a rapier, since bows by nature tend to be relatively thin and light, and it was the best match for a related weapon type. If you intend to slash with it, keep in mind that your bow will likely look relatively sword-like, and strings are generally more vulnerable.

You could take a razor-wire approach to the strings, sure, but you'll need equally tough strings on the violin if you do. Pick the wood of your choice for the instrument, and make the strings of metal. Use the weaker of the two materials for purposes of your weapon being sundered, since if either breaks, it's pretty useless as an instrument(though I could see the argument that even with the strings broken, it would work as a weapon still)

ericgrau
2009-10-05, 09:16 PM
This section includes a list of material hardnesses:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering

Also check this out in the magic weapon section:


Hardness and Hit Points
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points.


Ironwood isn't listed but it's as strong as steel. Try an ironwood violin with mithral or adamantine strings. I'd say 5 HP and 10 hardness for the violin, plus 1 HP and 15 or 20 hardness for the strings. Reduce to 5 hardness and 0 hardness for ordinary materials. Add the above bonuses for a magic weapon. Add 3,000 gp to the price of an adamantine weapon. For ironwood you'll need to pay a druid NPC spell level x caster level x 10 gp to cast an ironwood spell, and it only lasts a few days.

Glimbur
2009-10-05, 09:23 PM
But what about the bow hair? It's made of horse tail for a reason: so it can actually grab the string. That's also why you rosin the bow. Replacing that with metal will replace your bow with a stick. Getting blood on your bow hair will be counterproductive.

Sorry for being the voice of sanity, feel free to ignore me.

ericgrau
2009-10-05, 09:24 PM
Then use ordinary materials and magic it up for 2 hardness and 10 HP per +1.

sadi
2009-10-05, 09:46 PM
This section includes a list of material hardnesses:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering

Also check this out in the magic weapon section:


Ironwood isn't listed but it's as strong as steel. Try an ironwood violin with mithral or adamantine strings. I'd say 5 HP and 10 hardness for the violin, plus 1 HP and 15 or 20 hardness for the strings. Reduce to 5 hardness and 0 hardness for ordinary materials. Add the above bonuses for a magic weapon. Add 3,000 gp to the price of an adamantine weapon. For ironwood you'll need to pay a druid NPC spell level x caster level x 10 gp to cast an ironwood spell, and it only lasts a few days.


I looked at ironwood and the duration pretty much makes it hard to work around unless I have a high level druid following me around to recast it on a regular basis. The only other thing I've found at all that might work is one of the templates out of dmg2 that adds +1 hardness and +5 hps to an item.
It looks like adamantine is the best option since it has a pricing option for weapons and is hard enough that it wont snap when attacking anything. I don't know how pricing for mithral would work though, the way it looks worded it would be significantly cheaper than 3,000 since it's just a flat 500/pound for weapons or other items and I can't see 6 strings weighing more than a pound or two at most.



@Glimbur Not that I know how to do multiple quotes, but I've thought about the real logistics of it, but then again I'm pretty sure I can convince the DM, it is a fantasy world with lots of magical beings, I'm sure one of them has spent eons working the logistics of how to create a musical instrument with "unbreakable" strings, even if just working off the laziness aspect of having to restring it.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-05, 09:51 PM
But what about the bow hair? It's made of horse tail for a reason: so it can actually grab the string. That's also why you rosin the bow. Replacing that with metal will replace your bow with a stick. Getting blood on your bow hair will be counterproductive.

Sorry for being the voice of sanity, feel free to ignore me.

Replacing the wood randomly will also affect your bow and violin, most likely. Of course, given all the other various unrealistic things in D&D, it probably doesn't stand out that much. Especially if you add magic to the mix.

That said, metal strings can be rough too. Not easy, mind you...but it certainly could be done.

ericgrau
2009-10-05, 09:55 PM
Ironwood would probably sound the same as the original wood it was cast on. A metal violin OTOH probably wouldn't sound good. I still think using the magical enhancement bonus to keep everything from breaking would work well, even with ordinary materials. Using steel for the back of the bow (not the string) doesn't hurt though.

Paulus
2009-10-05, 09:59 PM
Replacing the wood randomly will also affect your bow and violin, most likely. Of course, given all the other various unrealistic things in D&D, it probably doesn't stand out that much. Especially if you add magic to the mix.

That said, metal strings can be rough too. Not easy, mind you...but it certainly could be done.

Wouldn't that just be wire?

Electrics guitars use wire strings.

Also, sure musical instruments can be made of steel, look at Steel guitars.
Further, maybe adding a natural armor bonus to your strings would work?

sadi
2009-10-05, 10:20 PM
Just looked up ironwood, and that actually would have the same problems that other materials would have, it'd work on the body of the bow, but the string itself probably wouldn't be affected since it's not wood.

The best option I have without wondering if you can use mithral or adamantine strings is, +1 soulforged would give it a hardness of 3 and 17 hps. The character I'm making is only going to be level 6 so I probably won't be able to afford a +2 item.

Maybe at worst I can convince the DM that it gives an exotic sound using metal strings, something like -2 to checks instead of the masterwork bonus, otherwise it's pretty fragile as a weapon.

Glimbur
2009-10-05, 10:43 PM
Metal strings are completely legit. Some strings are metal wound around a core of gut or rope or what have you, but you can also wind the wire on a core of also metal.

The simplest answer is magic, as others have already suggested.

ericgrau
2009-10-06, 12:56 AM
Metal strings are just fine. I bought a pack of guitar strings before and they were all metal IIRC. It's the bow where a metal "string" (is that what it's called?) might be an issue.

I hadn't heard of a metal violin / guitar body before, and I couldn't find one with google either. I thought the properties of wood were necessary to dampen the sound, else it gets too harsh.

Ixcuazl
2009-10-06, 01:47 AM
Bah. Real men fight with a cello.

Oh well. You could just stick razors in the bow, Aztec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl) style. Or make it a curved metal sword, but with strings on the inner edge. As long as it looks like it could be used as a bow, your DM probably won't argue about accoustics. Plus, it's magic.

You're missing the opportunity to have a guy using an axe as an axe, though. Say your guy is playing power chords inbetween swings. Zreeoww, slitch! Tzzangg, thupkk! Hours of fun. You'd have to make it a +1 shock greataxe, so you can call it an electric guitar :smallsmile:

As for hardness, I thinkthere are a few spells that increase it. Hardening is one, but it's 6th level, so it might not be an option. You have other problems if your 'allies' are sundering your things, though.