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Uin
2009-10-04, 04:21 AM
There be a hell of a lot of Gestalt threads kicking about over the last couple of days but so very few of us will actually get to play in such a game. I only know one person that has read the gestalt rules but I do tell my players about them and tell them they are in for a rocking time if ever their party was reduced to three.

Still, what are your fantasy/best played gestalt combinations?

I really fancy a Barbarian//Swordsage, or if someone takes a hissy fit about ToB Barbarian//Scout. Pouncing Roaring Trap Killing Whirling Frenzied avatar of death. Shadow Striding out of Forcecages and Balancing on the Sky.

Something else would be a Duskblade//Factotum with factotum spell-likes covering for the lack of Duskblade buffs and some massive Int synergy. Pretty much Int to everything with some Knowledge Devotion, Arcane Disciple (Stength) and Arcane Strike thrown in for good measure.

playswithfire
2009-10-04, 06:36 AM
I second Barbarian//Swordsage and I have one build that I like that's mainly crusader//sorcerer/pale master with a battle dancer dip thrown in.

Also Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many forms//something fun like psychic warrior or swordsage.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-04, 07:13 AM
The one I had the most fun with was Warblade//Factotum/Binder/Incarnate/Totemist/Warlock/Dragonfire Adept/Chameleon/Ardent/Cleric/etc. Warblade core with a hell of a lot of random abilities. Awfully fun to play. Great special forces-type fellow.

Eldan
2009-10-04, 07:16 AM
My own character, Ashator the Daelkyr (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=140307), especially in his Alternate Form (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=142324).

Seriously, though, everything is fun with ToB in Gestalt. Though since I saw it, I really want to try Djinn in Tonic's Madspark Eccentric with an Artificer/Effigy Master/Eccentric on one side and full barbarian on the other.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-04, 07:20 AM
Barbarian 1 / Ardent / Frenzied Berserker 5 / More Ardent // Cloistered Cleric / Frenzied Berserker 6-8

Fun times. Psionics, Divine Spells. Pretty much the only limit to what you can do is what combinations you come up with.

You can turn into a regular blender at high levels. It's a thinking man's Hulk Smash.

Korivan
2009-10-04, 07:22 AM
My favorite would be the Factotum/Wizard-incantrix-Archmage. Can't go wrong by boosting your wizards HD, Reflex, BAB, Skills, and of course action economy meltdown.

Next up the Duskblade/Fighter-Weapon Master-ArchBlade(homebrew if allowed). Can kill the Tarresque(can't remember how to spell it) in 1-2 hits.

Druid/Barbarion-Frenzied Beserker. Doesn't matter what you transform into. With a killer list of buff spells, and rage/frenzy, you can be a squirrel and still strike fear in the masses.

Deastorm
2009-10-04, 07:40 AM
Running a solo campaign over my wife, to strenghthen her game if we ever find a group we like again, and she's playing a cleric/crusader. With war and fire domain, this character has yet to be thrown against anything she doesn't mow down in a few rounds.

PId6
2009-10-04, 07:44 AM
Ranger//Ranger

Enough said.

oxinabox
2009-10-04, 07:46 AM
Now assuming ban rules about PrC's that allow you to fill multiple roles.
Eg theurge is out (obviosly)
But also, Arcane trickster, and all Gish Prc's.

The AFC for fighters from I can't remember where, sacrifice Medium & heavy armour, to sellect one of you arcane casting classes, while your fighter lvl is no more that 1 less than the highest level spell you can cast you may cast in light armour.
Since SpellSword is banned, no other simple way to put a wizard in armour.
This becomes if not decent then, note completely the worst thing ever.
Sure, straight Duskblade/anything with full BaB does better: but:
on oneside yuou have wizard 20,, actually no, abj, champ and eleditch knight maybe out, but Incantatix is still in. it's a wizard being more of a wizard than ever before.
on the other, slightly less than 50% fighter.
Add Battle caster feat and now your back in medium armour.
Now, fill the rest of the lvls with warblade.
or scarifice some bab for swash buckler 3 (IIRC) and add int to damage.

Decent Int synergy and full bab (or great int synergy and mostly full bab).
full casting.
Your better than a jade phonix mage.




Assuming you paying no attention to the rules for Gestaul
The Kurald Galain's OmniCaster! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177) (someone, linky please?)
A work of Art, truely.
Maxed out not only divine, arcane, psionic, but also make a solid hit on Warlock invoctaion (less? at per lvl 6?)
and Done some incarnium stuff i can't evaluate.
Can also Truename (IIRC), because truenamer in nesciarry in every high powered build, it's just so strong - you won't compete with a tier 1 caster without it. (man it was hard to say that with a straight face)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-04, 07:56 AM
Now assuming ban rules about PrC's that allow you to fill multiple roles.
Eg theurge is out (obviosly)
But also, Arcane trickster, and all Gish Prc's.
That's the problem with hybrid bans IMO. Which PrCs are "gish"? Is Arcane Trickster really a hybrid with that pathetic 4 skill points/level? Theurge is obviously out, but others are really iffy.

Also, http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177

Korivan
2009-10-04, 10:21 AM
Ranger//Ranger

Enough said.

Sadly, I know a player that would think thats awsome. His closest to the above would have been his Ranger/Rouge, with his feats focused on ranged archery, and his class focus on two weapon style. He also couldn't cast spells cause that was his dump stat. This is the same person that would think Arcane Fire (Archmage)is better then sliced bread.

Woodsman
2009-10-04, 10:25 AM
Ranger//Ranger

Enough said.

That's twice the amount of ranger the normal human can handle!

An another note, I had a pretty sweet swordsage//warblade for an epic campaign. I also had a swordsage//psychic warrior.

I created a wizard//archivist for fun, as well.

aje8
2009-10-04, 10:32 AM
Factotum Warblade: Tons of Int synergy, int to everything, good melee attack due to maunevers, sneak attack die and gaining int to attack rolls. Just a great overall build.

woodenbandman
2009-10-04, 11:17 AM
Duskblade/any spellcaster. You don't even need any Int.

Kroy
2009-10-04, 11:20 AM
Breaking 2 Gestalt rules, but is sorta justified:
Wizard 10/Arcane Archer 10//Rogue 10/Arcane Trickster 10

paddyfool
2009-10-04, 11:46 AM
or scarifice some bab for swash buckler 3 (IIRC) and add int to damage.


Swashbuckler gets full BAB.

NotMe
2009-10-04, 01:33 PM
For non PRC builds:
Warblade / Wizard for spell and combat versatility and int synergy.
Warblade / Beguiler, as above but less range of spells, more skills and a more stealth and social focus.
Druid / Swordsage for a very nasty combat build.
Rogue 3 / Swashbuckler 17 // Wizard 20 with daring outlaw gets you 10d sneak attack, BAB of 19, decent hit points, full spellcasting and int synergy.

With dips and PRCs there are just too many options, but chameleon on one side of pretty much any build is great if you're using gestalt for versatility.

I'm currently working on a swordsage // cleric / walker in the waste and am looking for a solid 5 level of PRC to take after walker in the waste that has full cleric advancement. Any suggestions?

JellyPooga
2009-10-04, 01:41 PM
Dread Necromancer/Pale Master//Archivist/Master of Shrouds

mmmm...Necromancery goodness....

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-04, 01:54 PM
Archivist // Swordsage.

It's not nearly as optimized as anything else, but it does fit that wuxia warrior-scholar feel.

Tavar
2009-10-04, 02:00 PM
Swashbuckler/Swordsage//Scout(Riposte variant). Can get Str, Dex, Wis, and Int to damage plus gets bonus damage for staying in combat. Some other fun things to add are Chameleon or Avenging Executioner levels.

Jack_Simth
2009-10-04, 02:05 PM
Sorcerer//Paladin/Monk - take both Ascetic Knight and Ascetic Mage, keep the Paladin and Monk levels balanced.

Charisma-based spellcasting
Charisma to saves
Charisma to AC
Some healing
It does pretty well. It also helps if you PrC on the Sorcerer side into Mage of the Arcane Order.

Zaydos
2009-10-04, 02:22 PM
I made one last night assuming nothing Forgotten Realms (Incanatrix being one of the reasons).

So: Conjurer 10/Fatespinner 3//Rogue5/(Sneak Attack) Fighter 1/Master of Masks 1/Night Song Enforcer 1/Avenging Executioner 1/Assassin 1/Ninja 1/Spellthief 1/Scout 1
Banned: Evocation and Necromancy

+8d6 sneak attack
+2d6 sudden strike
+1d6 skirmish
Total +11d6 damage…

Human
Feats gained:
Wiz: Scribe Scroll
1st: Searing Spell
Human: Improved Initiative
3rd level: Blistering Spell
Wiz: Empower Spell
6th level: Easy Metamagic (Empower)
9th level: Arcane Thesis (Orb of Fire)
Wiz 2 level: Quicken Spell
12th: Enervate Spell

In short Invisibility + Orb of Fire for fiery fiery death. Also an exercise to max out Sneak Attack damage at Lv 13. I tried to obey all Gestalt rules but used Fractional BAB, I think it would be fun for a 1 shot. I can burn Fire with Fire... a necromental fire elemental though would hurt it severely.

Myou
2009-10-04, 03:07 PM
I tried to obey all Gestalt rules but used Fractional BAB, I think it would be fun for a 1 shot. I can burn Fire with Fire... a necromental fire elemental though would hurt it severely.

Everyone seems to ignore the no dual-progression and no PrCing on both sides at the same time.

Zaydos
2009-10-04, 03:17 PM
Everyone seems to ignore the no dual-progression and no PrCing on both sides at the same time.

Well ignoring those I could have had even more fun :smallsmile: At the very least have raised my sneak attack a few with Unseen Seer 1 and Arcane Trickster 2 on the Wizard side of things instead of Fatespinner 3. Or throw in a flaw for a bonus feat and go with another 5 levels of Arcane Trickster and another +2d6 sneak attack. Although since I started making this as an example of what a PC could make in a one shot I'm planning and I don't know if I allow flaws that's probably not the best idea. :smallbiggrin:

BenTheJester
2009-10-04, 03:31 PM
Nymph/Paladin of Tyranny/Hexblade\/Knight

is pretty much unkillable with with mettle and cha to saves twice. Oh, and the ability to stay alive cha rounds.

Zaydos
2009-10-04, 03:37 PM
Nymph/Paladin of Tyranny/Hexblade\/Knight

is pretty much unkillable with with mettle and cha to saves twice. Oh, and the ability to stay alive cha rounds.

Not to mention Cha to AC and no auto-fail on Nat 1s with saves. Although a nymph paladin of tyranny seems rather odd. Could also go Succubus for the higher (+8) Charisma but loses Cha to AC and low-level druid casting; then again you go from usually CG to always CE.

Lord of Syntax
2009-10-04, 04:24 PM
Druid//Monk 1/Sorcerer

Ernir
2009-10-04, 09:02 PM
The one I want to play most right now is Spellthief/Scout/Ranger/Arcane Archer//Wizard/Mindbender/Unseen Seer, used as an anti-caster caster assassin.

Also a Monk/Psiwar//Cleric for silly meleeing, and a Factotum//Wizard/Swiftblade sometime when I feel like the action economy should be mine.

EDIT:
And a Duskblade//Archivist. And a horrendously convoluted Paladin//Sorcerer gish whose specifics are locked on another computer right now.

I like taking a character concept and making it work by placing a tier 1-2 class on the other side, have you noticed? :smalltongue:

JeminiZero
2009-10-04, 09:26 PM
Ranger//Ranger

Enough said.

Yo Dawg, we heard you like Dual-Wielding, so we put a Ranger in a Ranger, so you can Dual-Wield while you Dual-Wield.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm rather partial to Anything Cha-based // Evolved Undead.

Fluffles
2009-10-04, 09:39 PM
Warblade || Swordsage/Mo9

Yeah, spam those maneuvers!

Oh yeah, Continuing on ^his post, Ghost LA 5/Evolved xx || Sorcerer (Or any other Cha based class)

Grumman
2009-10-04, 11:48 PM
Wu Jen 6 / Incantatrix 4 / Flux Adept 10 // Combat Build 20

You don't even need to go into battle, just send your expendable, renewable Body Outside Body clones.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-05, 12:00 AM
I find the Ghost / Evolved works well like this:

Ghost 5 / Evolved undead 15
and
Paladin of tyranny 5 (charging smite variant, holy warrior variant) / Paladin PrC with Mettle

Focus on Turn attempts, Cha, and Divine feats. Especially the one that lets you add your cha bonus to your shield... Works well with the one that lets your shield apply to touch AC. Then you get Cha to AC twice, Cha to saves, with good PrC selection, you can have evasion and mettle... And Cha to hit with smite, cha to damage with divine feats and with slippers of battledancing....

You can be accurate, tough, immune to many things, able to heal yourself with lay on hands. I also recommend awesome smite from Comp Champ for this.

Draz74
2009-10-05, 12:05 AM
Druid 20 // Ninja 20 ... the only good Ninja build. :smallamused: Wanna be a bat that kills people with your Tiny Natural Attack?

Factotum 20 // Psion 20 ... like Factotum//Wizard, but not quite as broken.

Ranger 20 // Scout 4 / Swordsage 11 / Master of Nine 5.

Dragonfire Adept 20 // Incarnate 20.

Really, Incarnum is just so easy to use in Gestalt. How about Factotum 18 / Uncanny Trickster 2 // Incarnate 9 / Uncanny Trickster 1 / Umbral Disciple 10? AKA the ultimate ultimate skillmonkey.

Or Ardent 20 // Totemist 20?

Swashbuckling types can get really fun:
Beguiler 20 // Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 16.
Bard 20 // Warblade 20.
Factotum 3 / Warblade 7 / Eternal Blade 10 // Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 16.
Beguiler 9 / Mindbender 1 / Bladesinger 10 // Swashbuckler 3 / Warblade 12 / Beguiler 5.

raitalin
2009-10-05, 12:08 AM
Another vote for Warblade//Factotum here. I love being extremely clever.

oxinabox
2009-10-05, 12:25 AM
can someone cite the rules that ban Wizard10/Incanatrix10//Factotum 10/Wizard 10?
I couldn't find them off hand

Draz74
2009-10-05, 12:43 AM
can someone cite the rules that ban Wizard10/Incanatrix10//Factotum 10/Wizard 10?
I couldn't find them off hand

Nothing bans it; it's just that the same levels (11-20) can't progress the same spellcasting progression (Wizard) on both sides at the same time. So those latter 10 levels of Wizard aren't doing you any good except 2 bonus feats and Familiar progression, since Incantarix is a full-casting PrC.

JellyPooga
2009-10-05, 02:10 AM
Rogue10/Assassin10//Ranger5/Occult Slayer5/Ranger10

Use the Arcane Hunter ACF for Ranger; I am the Mageslayer!

Tackyhillbillu
2009-10-05, 02:45 AM
I've just made a pretty fun one, at last I believe.

Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5//Swordsage 20.

DM Houseruled that MoMF and Warshaper increase the HD of the animals that I can turn into. Why yes, I did just turn into a T-Rex, bite you in half, and then light you on fire with that bite.

---

Honestly ToB Class one side//Anything else is going to be fun, especially if you can use whatever abilities the other class grants at the same time as you use your maneuvers. All the ToB classes are worth the straight 20, so you are free to PRC the other one however you like, if you so desire.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-05, 03:20 AM
Rogue 20 // Warlock 20

20d6 Eldritch blast sneak attacks, woo.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-05, 05:16 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Barbarian//Monk is made of pure awesome?

d12 HD
Full BAB
All good saves
Less MAD
Raging Flurry of Blows

Statistically awesome. :smallcool:

PinkysBrain
2009-10-05, 05:21 AM
chaotic//lawful

Galileo
2009-10-05, 05:23 AM
I favour Archivist//Crusader. Holy asskicking is the best kind.

Eloel
2009-10-05, 05:25 AM
Warlock // Scout

Eldan
2009-10-05, 05:42 AM
Well, I mostly like to have a high ECL monster on one side and a class on the other. Hence my Daelkyr Warshaper//Swordsage and my Gloura Wendigo Sorcerer.

Night Monkey
2009-10-05, 05:48 AM
Same as above. A friend and I once constructed a Half-Fiend Mindflayer Lichfiend with Wizard and Lord of the Dead levels. Awesomely fun. Swooping down from above, using paralysing touch and then eating your brains whilst you can do nothing to protest, then flying back off into the night.

I also like stacking Dragon Disciple opposite Sorc, with Paladin/Blackguard/other Cha-based buff classes. Gives you full casting, bonus spells from DD, awesome hit dice and physical stats making you into a bit of a gishy machine.

That said though, Lich does even better for your hit die, so the ridiculous 'Flayer build probably still wins.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-05, 06:01 AM
Were-Cachalot Whale/Fighter (dungeoncrasher) // Mountain Troll

You'll get about 4 class levels, but who doesn't want to be a freakin' Cachalot Whale? They eat squid, and Ahab hunted one, for pete's sake!

Eorran
2009-10-05, 02:09 PM
Were-Cachalot Whale/Fighter (dungeoncrasher) // Mountain Troll

You'll get about 4 class levels, but who doesn't want to be a freakin' Cachalot Whale? They eat squid, and Ahab hunted one, for pete's sake!

So half-troll, half-were-whale? :smalleek:
The class build that belongs in the Crack Pairings thread.

One I never got the chance to really try but always wanted to:
Warblade//Psion (Egoist): the Psychic Warrior on steroids

HCL
2009-10-05, 02:26 PM
You gotta be illumian for gestalt. Archivist/Transmuter, duskblade/transmuter, factotum/transmuter are all fun

Draz74
2009-10-05, 02:57 PM
One I never got the chance to really try but always wanted to:
Warblade//Psion (Egoist): the Psychic Warrior on steroids

Hmmm, I thought that would be Psychic Warrior 20 // Monk 2 / Swordsage 8 / War Mind 10. With Tashalatora. :smallsmile:

Zaydos
2009-10-05, 03:18 PM
Sorcerer 19/X 1//Juvenile Shadow Dragon (grants Sorcerer 1)/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Monk 1.

Throw in some prestige classes for Sorcerer, decide on what you want (non-casting) since Shadow Dragons get one level of sorcerer casting automatically. Paladin of Slaughter grants a nice save bonus, and monk does too. Not necessarily powerful but hey you get to play a dragon that might actually work in game. :smallsmile:

PId6
2009-10-05, 03:29 PM
Sorcerer 19/X 1//Juvenile Shadow Dragon (grants Sorcerer 1)/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Monk 1.

Throw in some prestige classes for Sorcerer, decide on what you want (non-casting) since Shadow Dragons get one level of sorcerer casting automatically. Paladin of Slaughter grants a nice save bonus, and monk does too. Not necessarily powerful but hey you get to play a dragon that might actually work in game. :smallsmile:
Make that a level of marshal and you get an awesome +Cha vs Spell Resistance.

Zaydos
2009-10-05, 03:36 PM
Make that a level of marshal and you get an awesome +Cha vs Spell Resistance.

:smallbiggrin: Me like.

Draken
2009-10-05, 04:13 PM
Crusader/Incarnate. Focus on your Devoted Spirit/Stone Dragon, grab some of the soulmelds that make the incarnate the guy with the most hit points around and other fun stuff. And you have...

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/L/LordStriker/1060711393_nightmare.jpeg

Crusader and Incarnate can be exchanged for Warblade and Totemist as you see fit to make this guy, as long as you have the ToB on one side and the Incarnum on the other. 20/20 is also a perfectly viable choice, making this a quite simple build. Prestige Classing with either is really just gravvy.

Althought Totem Rager does sound alluring...

oxinabox
2009-10-14, 01:06 AM
Druid 20// Totemist (maybe splash some monk)
Vow of Proverty.
Wilding clasp? what wilding clasp?

Korivan
2009-10-14, 02:16 AM
Nothing bans it; it's just that the same levels (11-20) can't progress the same spellcasting progression (Wizard) on both sides at the same time. So those latter 10 levels of Wizard aren't doing you any good except 2 bonus feats and Familiar progression, since Incantarix is a full-casting PrC.

I prefer just to focus on the wizards spellcasting, using the rules that allow you to replace class features for feats, drop the Factotums spell casting for some more font of insperation.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-14, 11:13 AM
How about Ascended Elf LA 4/Factotum 8/warblade 8 // Egoist 20 (with Metamorphic Transfer)? You get 20th level sorcerer casting, Plenty of maneuvers, and lots and lots and lots of extra actions for buffing and movement.

And it's all Int/Cha.

Fluffles
2009-10-14, 12:25 PM
Wizard 20 || Cleric 20

Talk about broken :smallbiggrin:

Or Druid 20 || Cleric 20 so you can have only Wis being your casting stat :smalltongue:

flabort
2009-10-14, 08:05 PM
I'd like to try a Warlock 20//Bard 7/Rouge 13.... Maybe a Rouge 20//swashbuckler 10/warblade10... or, if using stuff from these forums is allowed, and my hyperlink worked, Evolutionist 20 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112349)//factotum 20...

What?!

Edit: @ jack simth: Thanks!

Draz74
2009-10-14, 08:25 PM
I'd like to try a Warlock 20//Bard 7/Rouge 13.... Maybe a Rouge 20//swashbuckler 10/warblade10... or, if using stuff from these forums is allowed, and my hyperlink worked, Evolutionist 20 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112349)//factotum 20...

Fixed that for you.

Jack_Simth
2009-10-14, 08:35 PM
Flabort: It's url, not hyperlink. Much easier to type.

As to good combos?

Depends.

If the build starts at low-levels:
Sorcerer-X//Monk-(X/2)/Paladin-(X/2), taking both Ascetic Mage and Ascetic Knight (any PrC's go on the Monk/Paladin side). Similar, in that you get Charisma to AC, saves, and Evasion plus full Sorcerer spellcasting, but doesn't have the massive LA that precludes lower levels.

Alternately, Druid//Ninja. Wis-based spellcasting, all good saves, wis-based class features (many of which are swift actions), and Sudden Strike to go with the four or five natural attacks a Druid can get in Wildshape.

If the build starts at mid+levels:
Base Race: Human
Sorcerer-X//Phrenic(LA+2)Monk-2/Paladin(or variant)-2/Evolved Undead-Y(LA+Y)
Relevant Feat: Ascetic Mage (Feat from Complete Adventurer)
On the material plane, you get Charisma to AC twice, Charisma to saves, and Evasion ... oh yes, and full Charisma-based spellcasting. Hexblade-3 instead of Paladin (or variant)-2 also gets you Mettle. Even if multiclassing penalties are enforced... you don't have any.

If I really want to powergame, I arrange something along the lines of:
Sorcerer-20//Phrenic(LA+2)/Ghost(LA+5)/Evolved Undead-2/Monk-2/Paladin-2 (Variant: Tyrrany or Slaughter)/Arcane Duelist-2/Hexblade-3/Blackgaurd-2

Pick Up Ascetic Mage, and you get:
+12 racial Charisma
Charisma to saves twice (three times, vs. spells or spell-likes)
Charisma to AC twice (three times, vs. opponents on the material plane)
Evasion
Mettle
Charisma-based spellcasting
Psi-like abilities to compliment your spellcasting
Fast Healing
Power Resistance

Yeah, you're hard to hurt. Pick up a luckblade or two for those natural-1's. Just make sure to avoid turnbots, and that one obscure PrC that can put undead to rest for good...

ravenkith
2009-10-14, 10:06 PM
Some very impressive builds. Some not so much.

But as ever with D&D, it all depends on the game you are playing in.

I mean, your choices will naturally be dictated by whether you are lone wolfing it, or whether you will have another party member or two to collaborate with.

For going solo, I personally like Cleric//Rogue/Dread Commando.

Basics:
+ Fort, Ref and Will are all good saves
+ d8 HD (anything less and you're a sucker in gestalt)
+ 3/4 BAB (see HD),
+ 8 skill points a level,
+ Most of the skills in the game as class skills,
+ UMD, which grants access to arcane spells.

Important Notes:
Thanks to dread commando, you can wear armor beyond just light and retain your rogueish abilities.

Cleric grants the usual fun with buffs (very effective if you take the right domains, trickery being preeminent).

With out of combat heals, Cleric provides longevity, effectively increasing your HP total far beyond the norm, allowing you to theoretically 'dance all day'.

A key point to mention is that with this build, there really isn't any task you can't take on. A real 'army of one', so to speak.

The only major problem this build faces is a need for a minimum of three good stats: Con, Wisdom and Dexterity.



In a group setting, you can get more adventurous with your build - and that's when I like to bust out the Paladin of Freedom/Rogue/Spellwarp Sniper//Sorceror/MoTAO with a thesis in vitriolic sphere. (No, you don't take both PRCs simultaneously - you space em out).

Taking Elemental substitution - cold and elemental admixture, as well as split ray and Residual Metamagic (IIRC) allows you to mix and match your metamagic feats for some seriously powerful effects at bargain basement prices. Combine with Arcane Spellsurge for the best results.

Note: Since vitriolic sphere is an area effect (10ft sphere, IIRC) you can use the spellwarp snipers class ability to turn it into a touch attack that can bypass spell resistance to a degree, meaning that this is a tactic that while not 100% effective 100% of the time, will almost always have something approaching the desired result, especially when used in conjunction with true strike.

Zaq
2009-10-14, 10:14 PM
I like the concept of a Cleric//Incarnate. Especially if you (ab)use the Azurin Cleric ACF and the Divine Soultouch feat. Oh, and maybe the Incandescent Champion PrC, if you really want MORE ESSENTIA CAPACITY THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR! You'd sacrifice either meldshaping or spellcasting to get it, but eh, I say it could be worth it if you don't lose any levels in the other one.

I'd also love to play a Shadowcaster//Warlock. What are a Shadowcaster's main weaknesses? They lack endurance and they don't get very good utility/mobility options. What are a Warlock's main strengths? They can go all day and they get great utility/mobility options, especially if you've got something else backing you up. Certainly not hyperpowered by any stretch of the imagination (especially since they really can't do much with their swift actions, which is really shooting yourself in the foot in Gestalt), but it seems like a lot of fun.

Speaking of what I said already, there's no rule against a Shadowcaster//Incandescent Champion. I find this hilarious.

(You wanna know another funny thing that a Shadowcaster can do? They can take Shadow Familiar -> Celestial Familiar, and get a Lantern Archon with the Dark template. Just spend a minute trying to picture that.)

Oh, or an Awakened housecat/Swordsage//Psion. You're an adorable little kitty who uses things like Psionic Charm and Psionic Suggestion to force people to believe that yes, you are the cutest thing they've ever seen and yes, they do want to come over here and pet you. And then you either lead them into an ambush... or throw them with your Setting Sun powers.

deuxhero
2009-10-14, 10:15 PM
Sorcerer 19/X 1//Juvenile Shadow Dragon (grants Sorcerer 1)/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Monk 1.

Throw in some prestige classes for Sorcerer, decide on what you want (non-casting) since Shadow Dragons get one level of sorcerer casting automatically. Paladin of Slaughter grants a nice save bonus, and monk does too. Not necessarily powerful but hey you get to play a dragon that might actually work in game. :smallsmile:

I'd rather be a Steel Dragon, 4 HD, 2 LA 1st level casting, alternete form, a few minor bonuses and the standard dragon stuff.

Gorgondantess
2009-10-14, 10:20 PM
Definitely (insert monster class here)//whatever works. For example, Illithid//wizard or psion, or rakshasa//sorceror, or erinyes//duskblade, etc.; gestalt makes some monster classes actually worthwhile. Whodathunkit.

Vortling
2009-10-14, 10:21 PM
The only one I ever got to play was a cleric//swordsage. It was a blast for the short amount of time I had to play it.

Draz74
2009-10-14, 10:41 PM
I'd also love to play a Shadowcaster//Warlock. What are a Shadowcaster's main weaknesses? They lack endurance and they don't get very good utility/mobility options. What are a Warlock's main strengths? They can go all day and they get great utility/mobility options, especially if you've got something else backing you up. Certainly not hyperpowered by any stretch of the imagination (especially since they really can't do much with their swift actions, which is really shooting yourself in the foot in Gestalt), but it seems like a lot of fun.
Try Shadowcaster//DFA. DFA is like Warlock, but with even better Endurance (CON-based). And it has at least one good Invocation that's a swift action (Frightful Presence).

DFA or Warlock, with Rules Compendium you can always use some UMD'd wands for worthwhile swift actions.


(You wanna know another funny thing that a Shadowcaster can do? They can take Shadow Familiar -> Celestial Familiar, and get a Lantern Archon with the Dark template. Just spend a minute trying to picture that.)
Win.


Oh, or an Awakened housecat/Swordsage//Psion. You're an adorable little kitty who uses things like Psionic Charm and Psionic Suggestion to force people to believe that yes, you are the cutest thing they've ever seen and yes, they do want to come over here and pet you. And then you either lead them into an ambush... or throw them with your Setting Sun powers.
BBEG? ... er, LBEG?

Seems like some other psionic class would fit better than Psion. Wilder, Ardent ...


Definitely (insert monster class here)//whatever works. For example, Illithid//wizard or psion, or rakshasa//sorceror, or erinyes//duskblade, etc.; gestalt makes some monster classes actually worthwhile. Whodathunkit.

Mmmm, Gestalt rules don't actually say what to do about LA. And if I'm the DM, you'd have to put the LA on both sides of your build (but at least it gets cut in half). Makes monsters questionable again (though, probably better than in standard play).

But if the DM lets you put all of your LA on one side of the build, by all means, yes, monster races become fantastic. Especially if that side of the build can be the other one from your Racial Hit Dice. My favorite is Couatl: Outsider 9/Sorcerer 1/full casting PrCs 10//LA +7/other cool classes 13.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-14, 11:24 PM
(You wanna know another funny thing that a Shadowcaster can do? They can take Shadow Familiar -> Celestial Familiar, and get a Lantern Archon with the Dark template. Just spend a minute trying to picture that.)A black-light?

Maybe this is why the darkness spell sheds shadowy illumination, even in complete darkness?

Arctura42
2009-11-10, 11:23 PM
Ah, Gestalt Builds - this is practically a hobby of mine, though I don't suppose I'll ever actually get to use any of these characters (all sitting tight with 0 XP, but with feat lists mapped out till epic levels).

My most recent is turning out to be rather interesting. It's basically:

Psion//Psychic Warrior/Psion Uncarnate/Metamind

With the extra psionic caster levels provided by the PrCs going to Psychic Warrior. Luckily, power points stack, so that makes things way easier. However, there's something I've really wanted to do with this one.

Psychic Warrior loses 9 levels in his progression in this, but thanks to Practiced Spellcaster, that becomes only 5, which is bearable, thanks to the other full progress manifester. But, it can be raised quite a bit at epic levels, and I'll show you why:

Overchannel + Talented + Improved Overchannelled + Enormous supply of Power Points inherit in this build and generally any build with Metaminds.

What happens is this - a tenth level Metamind can have virtually unlimited Power Points for 1 minute. So, within that minute, we want to cast as many spells with as high a caster level as possible, with as many metapsionic feats as possible, etc, etc. Well, I know at least two spells that help there - there's Schism, and then there's the one which accelerates your time frame so that you can take actions while everyone else stands still.

Add to Font of Power the Improved Overchannelled feat and the Talented feat and you've got yourself something to look at. Improved Overchannelled is an epic feat that was written at the very very end of Complete Psionics that allows you to double your manifester level, taking 2d8 damage for each level you increase. HOWEVER, with Talented, you don't take damage when you decide to cast 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spells. Thus, your caster level for all of those spells is effectively doubled (well, not really, you have to expend your psionic focus for Talented to work, but that's what Schism is for!).

This makes things extraordinarily simple. Say we're at level 30, so we can take advantage of all this, plus some abilities that I've left out of the explanation. We have our Schism psionically focus us, then we cast a simple, first level spell, by the name of Mind Thrust (to use an ideal example). We expend our psionic focus to get the safety of Talented, and use Improved Overchannelled to get us to manifester level 60, and, we also use Font of Power to give us unlimited power points (if necessary - we won't use more than 60 points on this spell). We now put in so many power points to increase damage to around 56d10, then (assuming our Psycrystal also has psionic focus and we took the appropriate feat), we can even add in Maximize Power. I know of very few enemies that will survive a) a Will Save DC 50ish (11 + 27 from augmentation + Int modifier (who knows what it'll be by now)), b) have enough power resistance to come close to a manifester check when our manifester level is 60, or c) survive 560 damage taken all at once. However, if indeed there is one that exists, then we shift things a little bit. Now we use a move action to gain psionic focus (thanks to another awesome feat), and then use both our normal selves and our inner mind (schism) to cast this spell twice, using the psionic focus that we just generated and the one from our psycrystal (though we shouldn't rely too much on that since it takes a full round to charge that, so instead use the Epic feat that gives you more uses per psionic focus) to have both of us cast the same spell, and if you read the parenthesis, we can add both Maximize Power and Empower Power to that if we've taken it enough times. That's basically 1k damage in a very short amount of time. If that wasn't enough, there are even more awesome things you can do - such as give yourself 64 Armor bonus to AC for 60 hours, 300 temporary hitpoints for an hour, and whatnot. In addition, if you really wanted to be cheap, you could make your caster level 60 while casting a higher level spell, and at the same time cast a Twined Body Adjustment (cures 1d12 hitpoints per 2 power points you put in (3 initially), so 2 * 29d12 or 58d12, which has to be balanced against 60d8 damage - based on my calculations, it'd probably not be enough, so we'd have to maximize and empower just in case, lowering the actual numbers by 3 die, so that means - 2 * 26d12, or 52d12, but maximized, so that gives us 624, plus empowered, so that gives 1.5 times that, which is 936, which now must be compared to 60d8 damage. looking at maximum, 60d8 is 480, which is extremely small compared to the other value - all that's left is to see what the DM wants to think about it).

Whew, that was a lot of words, and a lot of math. Essentially, the numbers are really really awesome for 1 minute. After that, no more Font of Power, so you have to make do with your Power Point reserve of . . . oh . . . around 600 at least.

So that was my idea, and I hope I'll eventually get to play it as it sounds fun.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-10, 11:39 PM
<Psionic Stuff>Don't forget about timeless body manifested by your schism. You'll have to use your schism's standard action every round, and you'll have to give up every buff you have, but you'll be able to keep that "minute" up for eternity.

rooster
2009-11-10, 11:46 PM
My all-time favorite is Archivist//Eternal Blade with the Knowledge Devotion feat.



Because knowing is half the battle.

jeek
2009-11-11, 01:35 AM
Factotum 1/Incarnate 4/Chameleon 10/Incarnate +5//Binder 20 (or Binder 15/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5, for that 16 BAB yumminess)

Who do I want to be today?

Hida Reju
2009-11-11, 02:38 AM
Psychic Warrior 20/Soulknife 10/Soulbow 10

Better Hit dice, skills, free ranged weapon with Bane that can be Wis Synergied with that feat from Complete Warrior Zen Archery for both +hit and damage.

More feats for combat and self buffing for +hit, damage, move (Dimension door) and actions (Hustle).

Give him Heavy Armor and have him kill things with mind bullets or blade of choice.

its a fun build.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 03:01 AM
Psychic Warrior 20/Soulknife 10/Soulbow 10

Better Hit dice, skills, free ranged weapon with Bane that can be Wis Synergied with that feat from Complete Warrior Zen Archery for both +hit and damage.

More feats for combat and self buffing for +hit, damage, move (Dimension door) and actions (Hustle).

Give him Heavy Armor and have him kill things with mind bullets or blade of choice.

its a fun build.Or, just give up a single psychic warrior feat and replace half of your entire build with an alternative class feature? Then you get new class features on that side! It's like triple-gestalting...

sonofzeal
2009-11-11, 03:03 AM
Or, just give up a single psychic warrior feat and replace half of your entire build with an alternative class feature? Then you get new class features on that side! It's like triple-gestalting...
I'm not sure you can get Soulbow that way.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 03:07 AM
I'm not sure you can get Soulbow that way.Just use a regular bow?

Oh, and the soulbound weapon variant is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

Hida Reju
2009-11-11, 03:21 AM
I'm not sure you can get Soulbow that way.

Correct Soulbound weapon lets you make a melee weapon of nice power(at the cost of a lot of PP if you want adds like bane) but not a ranged one too. IE you have to pick one.

Also if you use that Mind Blade Gauntlet out of MiC you can get a +10 Mind blade effectively that changes a +3 enhancement every time you manifest it.

If you use Soulblade Warrior(Not sure of excact name) out of one of the Eberon books to get +2 to your effective soulknife lvl for determining enhancement.

I would use the Soulbound weapon in any pure non gestalt game instead of Soulknife. But this thread said Favorite not most optimized.

Malacode
2009-11-11, 03:32 AM
Dread Necromancer//Paladin/Marshal

CHA synergy out the wazoo, decent BAB, nice touch spells and PASSIVE PARTY BUFFS! I'm playing this at level 8 in a game I'm in at the mo, and those Auras have saved the parties ass on more that one occasion. Of course, having loads of undead mooks prolly helps too.

katans
2009-11-11, 04:15 AM
There definitely are a few fun things in Gestalt...

Cheesoramix the Über-Shaper Druid: Druid 20//whatever 5/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5
The Whatever can be Monk 5, PsyWar5, a ToB class, any random full BAB class, Rogue 5 with Savage Grapple... as I said, whatever, it's not important.

The Funky Dead Charismancer: Sorcerer 20 (eventually with PrC)//Ghost/Pal. of Tyranny 3/Hexblade 3/Wilder 2/Marshal 7

The Spontaneous Arcane Cleric: Spontaneous arcane caster 20 // whatever 6/Rainbow Servant 10/whatever 4

Speedy Gishalez: Wizard 20//Warblade 5/Swiftblade 10/Spellsword 1/Abjurant champion 4

Stone Dragon specialist: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk, Warblade 20 // Mineral warrior/Half-troll/Ranger 2/Dwarven Stoneblessed 3/Dwarven Paragon 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Deepwarden 2/Crusader to finish
Pump up your Con to the stratosphere (given your race and template, you should land somewhere around 54 at level 20), great AC, great HP, great save DC for those Stone Dragon maneuvers.

A simple synergy: Wizard 20//Beguiler 20, can be modified and abused at will with Shadowcraft Mage cheese.

sonofzeal
2009-11-11, 04:17 AM
I've always wanted to try Warlock//Scout. Seems like a match made in archery heaven.

ChakraChanter
2009-11-23, 07:10 PM
I've always been interested in Sorcerer/Rage Mage (with Barbarian build obviously). I like the idea of having good health, full bab, and cast spells in rage! I wonder if you can permit Extra Rage as contributing to the rage mage ability? Maybe throw a little frenzy barbarian in:smallcool: