Xykon's Familiar

[bue52]

If I remember correctly, a sorcerer gains a familiar the moment he is a sorcerer. So what happened to Xykon's? Is there a chance he made the MitD his familiar, though I doubt so. The other possible reason could be the same reason why Blackwing pops in and out. But then, if that's the case, wouldn't Xykon be reminded of his own familiar when he saw blackwing when they were near the rift? And hence, his own familiar pops in?

[TheBST]

It was Barky, obviously.

[Mannryu]

It was Barky, obviously.

A zombie familiar? Nice.

As for the real familiar, I have also been wondering where Xykon's is. Perhaps he just doesn't care about it and therefore never calls/uses it.

[Yora]

If I remember correctly, a sorcerer gains a familiar the moment he is a sorcerer.
No, a sorcerer gains the ability to create a familiar the moment he is a sorcerer. He does not need to.

[Lamech]

Nah, he traded his familar for a ACF. (Or a feat) Its how he can cast metamagic in a single round.

[Zevox]

If I remember correctly, a sorcerer gains a familiar the moment he is a sorcerer.
No, a Sorcerer merely gains the ability to summon a familiar, through a ritual that takes 24 hours to perform and costs 100 gp worth of magical materials. Most likely, Xykon simply never did this, whether because he doesn't know he can, thinks a familiar is too weak to be useful to him, simply lacks the attention span to perform a 24-hour ritual, or for some other reason altogether. I doubt we'd have gone this long without learning about his familiar if he had one, and particularly doubt it would fail to be mentioned in Start of Darkness, since he was one of the stars of that book.

Zevox

[CoffeeIncluded]

Xykon with a familiar? Blackwing (Before V's change) was treated like royalty compared to how Xykon would treat a familiar of his!

[Djibril]

Dunno....

Yes i was pretty much in that way too, but then i found myself wondering The Giant is never that predictable.

I can buy the story of a Xykon who doesn't remember to have a familiar, and without him remembering we would've not seen it (i.e. Xykon always forget things, like his keys, or Roy's.... well he doesn't remember Roy at all)

By now maybe it can be a powerful familiar too, if only remembered

You know... Xykon strikes me as one too lazy to check what his features are if he can't use them for something combat related

[MReav]

Familiars can cost you a significant amount of XP should it get killed. Seeing as Xykon likes to spam AOEs, especially when he's in them given his immunities, he might have decided that it's more a liability than an advantage.

[Starscream]

Xykon with a familiar? Blackwing (Before V's change) was treated like royalty compared to how Xykon would treat a familiar of his!

I agree. Xykon's one joy since becoming undead is killing things. Why would he keep around a living thing that he can't kill without losing XP?

[King of Nowhere]

If Xykon ever had a familiar, he would have found a way to not lose xp when the familiar died. And THEN he would have killed it for fun.

[Djibril]

Familiars can cost you a significant amount of XP should it get killed. Seeing as Xykon likes to spam AOEs, especially when he's in them given his immunities, he might have decided that it's more a liability than an advantage.

Agreable, but there are rules for famialiar cactually allow one to keep a more powerful animal if the caster level is right, do we know what level Xykon where at the very beginning in SOD?

[Thanatosia]

Things we know:

A) Xykon can cast Metamagic enhanced spells without an appearant increase in cast time as they are normaly penalized for spontaneous casters.

B) There exists rules to allow Sorcerors to trade in their Familiar class feature for an ability to cast metamagic enhanced spells without an increase in cast time.

C) Xykon has no appearant familiar.



Put A, B, and C together.

[Kish]

Things we know:

A) Xykon can cast Metamagic enhanced spells without an appearant increase in cast time as they are normaly penalized for spontaneous casters.
Objection. I sure don't remember it ever being established that Xykon takes a move action in the same round he casts a spell. Samantha cast metamagic-enhanced spells with no illustrated indication of a difference between her and a wizard either. Xykon has never cast a Quickened spell. Sorcerers cast metamagic-enhanced spells at the same initiative count as they cast non-metamagic-enhanced spells. The difference is that it's a full-round action instead of a standard action, and the meme that this makes metamagic feats useless to sorcerers is extremely wrong and irritating because of its wrongness. :smalltongue:

[MReav]

Things we know:

A) Xykon can cast Metamagic enhanced spells without an appearant increase in cast time as they are normaly penalized for spontaneous casters.

B) There exists rules to allow Sorcerors to trade in their Familiar class feature for an ability to cast metamagic enhanced spells without an increase in cast time.

C) Xykon has no appearant familiar.

Put A, B, and C together.

Technically, it takes a full round action to use a meta-magic spell. We don't see him doing any significant movement when he uses those meta-magic spells.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Its how he can cast metamagic in a single round.
A metamagic spell with a casting time of "one full round action" is different from a spell with a casting time of "1 round". (metamagic-feats-sorcerers-and-bards) A spontaneously cast metamagic spell finishes the same round the casting started just like a full-attack, charge, run, withdraw, or any other full-round action. Therefore, the only spells that require more than one round for Xykon to cast are the ones with a greater-than-one-round casting time to begin with.

[Alex Warlorn]

No, a Sorcerer merely gains the ability to summon a familiar, through a ritual that takes 24 hours to perform and costs 100 gp worth of magical materials.

Where in the rule book does it say it costs 100 GP?

Oh and I agree that logically, Xykon's familiar is *SOD SPOILERS* Barky. *END SOD SPOILERS*

He unlike has'em guarding an important location for him.

[Zevox]

Where in the rule book does it say it costs 100 GP?
The SRD, under the Sorcerer class description:


Familiar: A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp.


Oh and I agree that logically, Xykon's familiar is *SOD SPOILERS* Barky. *END SOD SPOILERS*
No, that's not at all logical. A zombie dog is not among the options available for familiars. At best, you'd have to have to have the Improved Familiar feat for such a thing, and even then it's questionable whether it might qualify for that. And we have no reason to believe Xykon has such a feat.


He unlike has'em guarding an important location for him.
That would be incredibly stupid of him. A zombie dog, even one with the benefits of being an epic-level Sorcerer's familiar, would be a pretty weak guardian. It could keep away only the lowest-level adventurers.

Zevox

[Raging Gene Ray]

Rich probably doesn't feel like drawing every Sorcerer's/Wizard's/Druid's/Ranger's familiar/animal companion, let alone coming up with personalities, character quirks, and/or (heaven forbid) backstories for them. So he does what most D and D players do: forget about 'em!

[Liwen]

Things we know:

A) Xykon can cast Metamagic enhanced spells without an appearant increase in cast time as they are normaly penalized for spontaneous casters.


I always objected that rule. For some reason it feels like kicking a dog after he's been hit by a car driven by a another dog who learns his dog tricks instead of having them come naturally. as the first dog does.

[Thanatosia]

Objection. I sure don't remember it ever being established that Xykon takes a move action in the same round he casts a spell.
Xykon clearly flys around V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) in the same round he casts a Maximized Energy Drain.
Xykon can also be seen flying across the chamber from V to O-chul's position while casting Maximized Lightning Bolt.

[Optimystik]

There's always that alternate class feature for sorcerers that lets them trade their familiar for Rapid Metamagic. It would explain away any inconsistencies in the comic concerning moving and casting, explain why he has no familiar, and totally fit Xykon's all-I-need-is-myself personality.

[Kish]

Xykon clearly flys around V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) in the same round he casts a Maximized Energy Drain.

Not the same round.
Surprise Round: Time St--argh! Quickened Chain Lightning!
First round: Energy Drain from Xykon, Empowered Sunburst and Quickened Dimensional Anchor from Vaarsuvius.
The quickened chain lightning has to be in the surprise round for it being Quickened to make any sense. Xykon spells out that Vaarsuvius did get a surprise round. The dodge has to be in the same round as the Quickened Dimensional Anchor, which has to be in the same round as the Sunburst for it being Quickened to make any sense. Xykon must have won initiative.
Second round: Maximized Energy Drain from Xykon ends the strip. Probably the Bixby's Crushing Hand that starts the next strip is Vaarsuvius' action in that round--not really important to the point that Xykon doesn't fly in the same round he casts the Maximized Energy Drain.


Xykon can also be seen flying across the chamber from V to O-chul's position while casting Maximized Lightning Bolt.
Xykon can clearly be seen casting Meteor Swarm, flying over to O-chul, and casting Maximized Lightning Bolt. That much is true. The clear round boundaries you're claiming mark the movement as in the same round as the Maximized spell and not the non-metamagiced spell, though? Not so much.

Note, I'm not saying Xykon doesn't have the alternate class feature, merely that of all the potential evidence for that, we have no indication that Xykon doesn't cast metamagiced spells as full-round actions.

[Optimystik]

For Xykon, the one definitive bit of evidence that would dispel all doubts - casting a quickened spell - we have not yet seen. I was kind of hoping that Rich would make him cast one just to end the speculation. :smallwink:

[Dr Bwaa]

Nah, he traded his familar for a ACF. (Or a feat) Its how he can cast metamagic in a single round.

This. It's pretty standard to swap familiar for Improved Metamagic as a sorcerer to use metamagic in the normal amount of time (seriously, a full-round action to cast a quickened spell? :smallfrown:).
Sorry if someone else already mentioned this; I haven't read the whole thread.

[Forbiddenwar]

This. It's pretty standard to swap familiar for Improved Metamagic as a sorcerer to use metamagic in the normal amount of time (seriously, a full-round action to cast a quickened spell? :smallfrown:).
Sorry if someone else already mentioned this; I haven't read the whole thread.

Actually, sorcerors without improved metamagic ACF cannot cast quickened spells at all. The real question is: Can you prove that Xykon has Improved metamagic ACF? Instead of not having a familar or having an unseen familar? If so, provide the proof to the class and geekery thread and you may win a prize!

If we can see him moving and casting a metamagic spell IN THE SAME PANEL, in combat, then it would appear definative.

[hamishspence]

Unless they have that feat (Complete Arcane) that allows them to prepare spells in advance.

Epic ones with Automatic Quicken Spell might be able to though.

[Optimystik]

Epic ones with Automatic Quicken Spell might be able to though.

Don't you need Quicken Spell for that anyway? Of course, he could have taken it, and just not used it until qualifying for AQS.

[hamishspence]

It does- and it specifically states in the feat description that sorcerer spells can be quickened using the AQS feat.

The Complete Arcane version of the feeat is massively nerfed, but since several books published post-Complete Arcane use the old Epic Handbook version, this suggests the Complete Arcane idea was dropped after that book.

Specifically, 0-1st level spells, +1 level each time you take the feat.

Compared to 0-3rd level, +3 levels each time you take the feat, for the Epic Handbook version.

[Angelus-alvus]

Xykon ate his own familiar to become more powerful. (refrence to the kishin in the soul eater anime).