Problems with Dub?

[Froogleyboy]

Okay, I've noticed a lot of anime fans saying that the Dub versions are bad, why is this?

[Seraph]

because some anime fans can't get over the fact that someone dared to try and replicate the performances of GLORIOUS NIPPON.

in all seriousness, its usually either a case of fandumb (its not the original, therefore it suckk!), being poisoned by a few bad dubs, or not seeing any of the good ones.


it should also be noted that the first episode of any dub is never a good candidate for criticism, as the actors usually haven't gotten used to the characters yet.

[Sayn]

Well, for me it's mostly that the dubs are not always well translated, and that the voice actors are total crap. Sure, there are some gems here and there, but mostly they lack the same feeling as the Japanese originals. I also find that American voice actors are worse than bad when pronouncing Japanese names, and that's a real turn off for me.

But we all have our preferences of course. And there are some animes out there with decent or even good dubs, I just prefer the original voices.

[Nameless]

Generally, the dubs aren't that bad at all. The only bad dubs I've watched is Card Captors and One Piece, but that's because they change the story and edited parts out.

[Comet]

If a japanese animation features a story that is set in japan, I'd rather have the characters speak japanese. Same goes for other languages, but I don't watch much animation besides the japanese kind.

However, if said japanese animation features a story that is set anywhere else than japan and has non-japanese characters, I'd really rather listen to it in english.

For example, I can't watch Hellsing these days without a dub. The japanese voice acting is good enough, but when they start shouting random english catchphrases just to prove that the story is set in england, I get nauseous.

"Searchu ando destroyo!" indeed. I watch my Hellsing in english, thankyouverymuch.

All in all, if a dub is good, I'd rather have english voice-acting than subtitles. Good dubs are rare, though.

[Violet Octopus]

Yeah, random english is annoying, but so are Japanese idioms or concepts clumsily rendered in English.

When I watched more anime, I preferred subs because I'd been led to believe it would help me learn it at school (it did not), and because I was sick of hearing Spike Spencer's voice in everything.

[UltraDude]

If a japanese animation features a story that is set in japan, I'd rather have the characters speak japanese. Same goes for other languages, but I don't watch much animation besides the japanese kind.

However, if said japanese animation features a story that is set anywhere else than japan and has non-japanese characters, I'd really rather listen to it in english.

For example, I can't watch Hellsing these days without a dub. The japanese voice acting is good enough, but when they start shouting random english catchphrases just to prove that the story is set in england, I get nauseous.

"Searchu ando destroyo!" indeed. I watch my Hellsing in english, thankyouverymuch.

All in all, if a dub is good, I'd rather have english voice-acting than subtitles. Good dubs are rare, though.

I agree with this a lot. Helps that the Hellsing dub is damn good.

I tend to prefer dubs for heavily visual anime, since reading while you're trying to watch high-intensity action doesn't always work out.

[Eldan]

Phh. You people have it easy with random mangled english phrases.

Do you know how much mangled german there is in english and japanese stuff combined?


Anyway, my policy is to see everything in it's original language. If I can read it, that too. So I read english books in english and, rarely, french books in french. Though I need a dictionary there, since it's been ages since I actually used my french.

[TengYt]

To be honest, apart from REALLY obscure and low budget stuff, there hasn't been a bad English dub of an anime in years. There's been bad localisation (such as anything 4Kids has ever done) but that's a different matter entirely. Usually, if someone doesn't like the English dub of an anime, it's due to localisation problems rather than the voice actors. If someone dislikes a dub of something with good localisation and good voice actors, it's more often than not due to fanboyism, sadly enough.

[FoE]

1) Some dubs are bad and rightly deserve scorn.
2) Some dubs are not bad, but the most hardcore weeaboos deride all dubs as the devil incarnate and they tend to be a pretty vocal group.

[13_CBS]

Perhaps it's because I've only seen bad dubs, but in my experience the dubbed voice actors' voices...don't quite seem to match, for some reason. I listen to the voice acting, and watch the animation, and something just feels off, feels wrong.

[Prime32]

It depends as much on the casting/directing as the actors themselves, I find.

For instance, the 4Kids dub of Shaman King was actually good. Lyserg has the same VA as Luffy from "Dub Piece", but gives quite a subtle performance.

I prefer the dub to the sub for Gundam SEED - Kira is just as whiny as he was in the original, but he's meant to be that way. Cagalli is now whinier, but I find it preferable to the sub's "macho" voice, and it makes her more like Kira. Dub!Athrun has an awesome voice, Mu sounds more suave, and in the finale Rau Le Creuset sounds genuinely insane. The biggest flaw is that Lacus has a different VA for her songs and it's very obvious. This is improved in the dub of Destiny though, which smooths out some of the other flaws as well.

The dubs for Fullmetal Alchemist and Code Geass are also very good quality.

[xPANCAKEx]

with anime i couldn't care less - but with films the dub never quite matches the emotion of the actor

that being said, i think hayden christiansans performance in starwars 2 and 3 would be a prime candidate for a dub - boy couldn't emote for anything :smallwink:

[Catch]

1) Idioms and jokes don't translate.
2) The available cast of English-speaking voice actors is pitifully small.
3) Voice work, in Western media, has the same prestige as asking "Do you want fries with that?" which results in many uninspired or just annoying performances.

That said, there are a few English dubs I enjoy. Cowboy Bebop is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

[UltraDude]

Obviously, live action dubs don't work as well because mouth movement is so much more prominent in it.

[Rogue 7]

1) Some dubs are bad and rightly deserve scorn.
2) Some dubs are not bad, but the most hardcore weeaboos deride all dubs as the devil incarnate and they tend to be a pretty vocal group.

Pretty much this. The quality of U.S. dubs has increased dramatically in the past few years, as more and more Voice Actors who actually know what they're doing have gained prominence.

[NerfTW]

To be honest, apart from REALLY obscure and low budget stuff, there hasn't been a bad English dub of an anime in years. There's been bad localisation (such as anything 4Kids has ever done) but that's a different matter entirely. Usually, if someone doesn't like the English dub of an anime, it's due to localisation problems rather than the voice actors. If someone dislikes a dub of something with good localisation and good voice actors, it's more often than not due to fanboyism, sadly enough.

Exactly. Younger fans don't remember the horror that was Funimation's early days, or the Sailor Moon travesty, or just horrible, low budget companies buying up whatever they can and throwing a dub on there.

Also, in the past, remember that with VHS you had to release two seperate versions. Therefore "avoid the dubs" was a wise and neccessary choice when you had to pick. You might as well pick the one that has a higher chance of being good. (Or at least in a language you wouldn't notice the crappiness in. Sailor Moon, for instance, talks like a small child in the Japanese version.)

Nowadays, quality is generally better, and you can switch back and forth all you want on one DVD, so the discussion is moot, and only clung to by the old schoolers.

[Prime32]

Then there's the obvious point that subs have a larger selection and come out faster. :smalltongue:

[TengYt]

1) Idioms and jokes don't translate.
2) The available cast of English-speaking voice actors is pitifully small.
3) Voice work, in Western media, has the same prestige as asking "Do you want fries with that?" which results in many uninspired or just annoying performances.

That said, there are a few English dubs I enjoy. Cowboy Bebop is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

The problem with 1) is that a good localisation team will change jokes and idioms to suit an English audience. However, when this happens, you just know you'll get the usual outcry of fans of the original Japanese version complaining that changes that are usually for the best in context are ruining the original version.
2) is quite false. However, the problem is that many of the higher profile voice actors have contracts with certain companies, have busy schedules, and/or are rather expensive to hire. I will agree that Japan has a lot more voice actors than America, however.
3) is kinda false too, provided you look at work dubbed in the last ten years. Aside from hentai, no-budget games and crappy, obscure stuff, most of the anime etc translated in the last decade or so (and arguably longer than that) has been of reasonably high quality, when it comes to voice work at least.

[The Evil Thing]

EDIT: It seems I went off on a rant again. Read at your peril.

Fandumb, mostly. Since many anime fans don't speak Japanese at a native level, they assume that good voice acting is the default in the Japanese version, and a rarity in the English version, because they can't detect bad acting in the former, but find it easily in the latter. As a result they convince themselves that the Japanese voice acting is inherently superior.

Of course voice acting can break any dub but writing is key too. A good translation will seek the purpose behind idioms, honorifics and whatnot and extrapolate that reasoning to what would happen in English, rather than simply attempt to provide a one-to-one word correspondence between the Japanese and English (and failing). This is something fansubs are especially guilty of since fans hate changing their daisetsu Nihongo particularly if there's even the remotest of possibilities that the average English-speaker might be able to understand it. (Duh duh duuuuuh!)

People say 4Kids does a terrible job with everything, but are they really that bad? Take their dubs of the Yu-Gi-Oh! series, for instance: references to death and mutilation were removed and this "Shadow Realm" was invented as a literary workaround. Fans cry foul, but ultimately the plot wasn't affected in any way. What about Pokémon? Oh noes, they changed rice balls into sandwiches? Please.

Funimation, on the other hand, irritates me no end. Their DVD subtitles have started to emulate fansubs. Inconsistently.

ADV (at least I think it was ADV) caught a lot of flak for changing the names in Initial D, but is that really worth getting worked up for? Most Americans (or indeed any foreigners) can't pronounce Japanese names with any sort of consistency, so why not just give them new ones that people can get easily? Try saying "Seiji Iwaki" three times fast, then repeat the process with "Hawk". See where I'm coming from?

Another advantage of dubs is that I don't need to keep reading things if I want to understand what's being said. If I can just listen to an audio track rather than processing written text, I can fully switch my brain off and enjoy.

As a general rule I try to give every dub a chance. I only switch if I find one of the characters insufferable to listen to in English - Kaede from Shuffle! is a good example - but that rarely happens. I do remember being rather bemused that Mardukas from Full Metal Panic spoke with an American accent. Ah... but you can't have everything your way.


1) Idioms and jokes don't translate.
2) The available cast of English-speaking voice actors is pitifully small.
3) Voice work, in Western media, has the same prestige as asking "Do you want fries with that?" which results in many uninspired or just annoying performances.
1) So don't. Use English ones instead. :smalltongue:
2) The video game industry seems to manage.* The voice acting there is occasionally good too.
3) Is it really that much better in Japan?

*Predictably, I've noticed some names appearing in both industries for a while now, though I never expected Spike Spiegel to be playing Cyrus from Dawn of War 2.

[Tirian]

Generally, the dubs aren't that bad at all. The only bad dubs I've watched is Card Captors and One Piece, but that's because they change the story and edited parts out.

Granted, 4Kids has a lot to answer for regarding their localization of One Piece, but in fact the dubbing was also dreadful. I can't even choose one sub vs. dub video on YouTube to link to; they all make the case quite clearly.

It doesn't have to be that way. If the international translators and casting people are fans of the original series, then they have a chance to get a dub right. Too often, they either don't care or (shudder) think they know better what will sell to the new audience.

[hanzo66]

Pretty much this. The quality of U.S. dubs has increased dramatically in the past few years, as more and more Voice Actors who actually know what they're doing have gained prominence.

True. Part of it is that there are some really questionable VAs (Jason Griffith being one that receives a lot of flak for his performance as Sonic the Hedgehog). Another part are the damned Weeaboos that complain about how the English language sounds horrendous. For my part I like to think of myself as very generous towards Dubs (though I've seen questionable performances before) and I see Voice Acting as a decent occupation.

[Prime32]

3) Is it really that much better in Japan?Yes. Or rather, Japanese culture has a slight taboo against eveyone knowing your face, so voice acting is often preferable to the normal kind.

[Eldan]

Try saying "Seiji Iwaki" three times fast, then repeat the process with "Hawk".


Seiji Iwaki is a lot easier :P
But only because that strange vowel sound in "Hawk" doesn't really show up in swiss german.

[Athaniar]

For me it's because the original is the original. I also prefer not to read translated books.

[Kato]

Hm... I'm mostly on the 'trying to watch the original' part.
Okay, I have hardly ever seen anything in English (except for lately Nadesico since I couldn't for the hell of it find a japanese with subs) but I know what German television is doing to series at times and t is... ew.

granted, the people saying it is often(!) the localization instead of the the VAs might be right but it's not as if you could just ignore all the crappy translation and edits and still watch the dub, you HAVE to go back to the subs to get the real stuff. I'm actually surprised Naruto is still airing here since every single sane person perceives the localization either as horrible copy or parody of the original version.

But to stay with the VA vs seiyu (I'll stick with those to tell them apart) topic...
a) it seems hard for many to properly pronounce Japanese names. With the English i get it. There are names an English person can't put together with his standard vocabulary or which just sound very weird in an English sentence. But how can a German person be unable to properly pronounce Sas(u)ke? (Okay, Naruto is about the worst offender lately but I cannot contain my rage over it)
b) I often get the feeling the VAs are not feeling the character the way the seiyus do. This is not something general but it happens more often than not. I think a Japanese person who gets to star in a e.g. Gundam show iis exited over it and trying to do it's best when an American VA is just... meh, it's just another one of those stupid Japanese cartoons, but it's money.
c) With the really emotional scenes I just always feel like the original feels most like it. Okay, I haven't two many examples on it but e.g. Domon Kasshu in the final sequence of GGundam just felt so much more hot blooded in Japanese even if the American was good it didn't by reach the original level. Also I stumbled upon the ending of 00 ep 23 on youtube and... No. just no. This was something that made me almost shed manly tears in the original and that was just... poor, sorry to whoever voices him. And the supposed-to-be tear jerking 'just lost my big brother' cries? They were just plain cold mechanic sounds (okay, they had a slight touch but just not close to the original) I didn't do it so far but I guess I'll rewatch TTGL in English and I assume I will be disappointed by the lack of awesome in there as well... But we'll see, I don't want to judge it too early.

[Oregano]

Dubs, and localisations were bad back in the day but in the last ten or more years they've greatly, greatly improved as Anime and Video Games have become more globalised. I'd say bad dubs are in the minority now.

[Prime32]

Domon Kasshu in the final sequence of GGundam just felt so much more hot blooded in Japanese even if the American was good it didn't by reach the original level.Well, what about Dan Green? He makes childrens' card games awesome. :smalltongue:

Also, I haven't seen much of the series but Sandman from Gravion seems to be more hotblooded in English than in the original (can't remember who voiced him).


I didn't do it so far but I guess I'll rewatch TTGL in English and I assume I will be disappointed by the lack of awesome in there as well... But we'll see, I don't want to judge it too early.Three words: Giga Drill Break. :smallconfused:

[Catch]

1) So don't. Use English ones instead. :smalltongue:

I enjoy the culture, and don't feel that everything I view needs to be "Westernized" in order for it to be palatable. Native voice work lends to the show's appearance, and I value original works over another team's interpretation, for the most part.

(Note: I did read Madame Bovary in English, but my Divine Comedy had the Italian verse on the opposite pages. Early Nabokov doesn't count either, because he translated his novels himself.)


2) The video game industry seems to manage.* The voice acting there is occasionally good too.

It's hard to get good voice work in the video game industry especially, because companies have to chose between bargain basement talent or half-assed grudging performances from B celebrities. It's often true for anime, as well.

The exception is Billy Dee Williams in Command & Conquer. He's just great.


3) Is it really that much better in Japan?

Yes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiyuu)

[Reverent-One]

Three words: Giga Drill Break. :smallconfused:

The removal of the "-er" is an extraordinarily minor change, and I really have trouble seeing any complaint about it being more than an instance of "they changed it, so it sucks."

[UltraDude]

The removal of the "-er" is an extraordinarily minor change, and I really have trouble seeing any complaint about it being more than an instance of "they changed it, so it sucks."

Honestly, I just think 'breaker' flows better than 'break', though that may come from having heard things called 'breaker' in other material.

[Reverent-One]

Honestly, I just think 'breaker' flows better than 'break', though that may come from having heard things called 'breaker' in other material.

Which is fine. Personally, I don't care which way it's said, it doesn't really make a difference to me at all. I do, however, have a problem with it being referred to as if that's all one needs to know to determine the overall quality of the dub. That's just ridiculously simplistic.

[Prime32]

Well, it was more :smallconfused: than :smallmad: for me.

[Reverent-One]

Well, it was more :smallconfused: than :smallmad: for me.

Then I jumped the gun a bit, sorry. Certain common arguments in Dub vs sub discussions (or most any vs discussion I've seen more than once) are a pet peeve of mine and I can over-react at times.

*leaves the thread without making more of a jerk of himself than he already has*

[Cubey]

Some dubs, especially older ones, are just bad. Others aren't exactly bad but sound just grating to me.
I find written English easier to understand than spoken. I'm not English, so both Japanese and English are foreign languages to me.
You can convey a lot of information in Japanese from the way a person speaks - not their tone, but also the very words they use. Do they use "watashi", "boku", "ore-sama" or whatever else as the Japanese "I", do they end sentences with "kashira" or "-ze". It all matters.
Last but not the least, dubs don't have Norio Wakamoto.

I don't find dubs bad (usually), but I prefer subs.

[Mystic Muse]

I like subs so that people will complain the show is in japanese when they walk by rather than them make fun of me for the cheesy lines.

[UltraDude]

I find written English easier to understand than spoken. I'm not English, so both Japanese and English are foreign languages to me.
You can convey a lot of information in Japanese from the way a person speaks - not their tone, but also the very words they use. Do they use "watashi", "boku", "ore-sama" or whatever else as the Japanese "I", do they end sentences with "kashira" or "-ze". It all matters.
Last but not the least, dubs don't have Norio Wakamoto.

I don't find dubs bad (usually), but I prefer subs.

What's your native language again? English is very reliant on tone of voice to get things across, whereas, say, German is more what words you use, and Italian has even more body language. I can definitely see favoring subs if English isn't your first language.

And yeah, the Wakamoto point is pretty relevant.

[Lord Seth]

Three words: Giga Drill Break. :smallconfused:Isn't that what the people who made it wanted it to be? I remember reading that.

In any case, it's a rather small thing to complain about.

[Cubey]

What's your native language again?

It's Polish.

[GoufCustom]

1) Idioms and jokes don't translate.
2) The available cast of English-speaking voice actors is pitifully small.
3) Voice work, in Western media, has the same prestige as asking "Do you want fries with that?" which results in many uninspired or just annoying performances.

1. Sure, not always. But it's much harder to have translation notes to help people understand on a DVD like you can with a book of manga (I'm specifically thinking of the Azumanga Daioh manga). Plus, for the most part anime is not art, it's entertainment. A good localization can make the joke enjoyable to new viewers without having to do research why the joke is funny, and be better for it.

2. Only moderately true, and getting less true every year. Acting in general is a very large field, and most aspiring actors will gladly take any work given to them, even voice work. And the voice industry in particular is growing.

3. Same as the above for the msot part, except that it is becoming far more enviable a position. The work is steady, pays pretty well, and once you're in voice work, you're fairly set. Plus the anime and gaming side provides pretty incredible niche appeal. I know girls who want Quentin Flynn to father their babies.



c) With the really emotional scenes I just always feel like the original feels most like it. Okay, I haven't two many examples on it but e.g. Domon Kasshu in the final sequence of GGundam just felt so much more hot blooded in Japanese even if the American was good it didn't by reach the original level. Also I stumbled upon the ending of 00 ep 23 on youtube and... No. just no. This was something that made me almost shed manly tears in the original and that was just... poor, sorry to whoever voices him. And the supposed-to-be tear jerking 'just lost my big brother' cries? They were just plain cold mechanic sounds (okay, they had a slight touch but just not close to the original) I didn't do it so far but I guess I'll rewatch TTGL in English and I assume I will be disappointed by the lack of awesome in there as well... But we'll see, I don't want to judge it too early.

I seem to be in the minority that does not like the G Gundam dub, even though I'm usually the dub advocate. And actually, unless I'm much mistaken, all the main Gundam series are dubbed in Canada. We can blame them. As for TTGL, I much prefer English Simon and Yoko, and who can't enjoy Steven Blum's Leeron? The general complaint is that Kamina isn't as good, which boggles my mind.

[Mando Knight]

1) Idioms and jokes don't translate.This applies to subs as much as to dubs... except for some fansubs, which assume that the people watching them are "in" on all of the Japanese idioms and puns, and so will leave the terms untranslated.:smallyuk:

2) The available cast of English-speaking voice actors is pitifully small.Only because dubbing crews are generally run on lower budgets than made-in-America projects. Not every company can hire Mark Hamill or Kevin Conroy.

3) Voice work, in Western media, has the same prestige as asking "Do you want fries with that?" which results in many uninspired or just annoying performances.Again, this is mostly because it's run on pretty low budgets. If they could shell out to hire Robin Williams, William Shatner, Mark Hamill, etc., we would probably end up with rather fantastic dubs.

[WitchSlayer]

Well, in the Witchblade anime, the dub was better than the original Japanese voices. In my opinion anyway.

But it was still a terrible show.

[_Zoot_]

What would people call really good Dubs? I have heard that Cowboy Bebop is meant to be a really good Dub but i haven't really got anything to comparer it to.

[Innis Cabal]

Mushi Shi has a good dub.

[Eldan]

Oh, one more thing to add:
When I watch something in english, I prefer to have subtitles as well, because as soon as someone has an accent, and maybe talks a little fast, I tend to get lost towards the end of sentences. Especially bad in english television sometimes.
So, for me, it's mostly the choice of having subtitles only and the original speakers, or of listening to the english version and sometimes missing parts, because finding english versions with subtitles is rare.

[Random NPC]

Oh, one more thing to add:
When I watch something in english, I prefer to have subtitles as well, because as soon as someone has an accent, and maybe talks a little fast, I tend to get lost towards the end of sentences. Especially bad in english television sometimes.
So, for me, it's mostly the choice of having subtitles only and the original speakers, or of listening to the english version and sometimes missing parts, because finding english versions with subtitles is rare.
As a spanish speaker that learned english through American TV shows, Closed Captions are a godsend. :smalltongue:

[Cespenar]

Like some of the people above, my motto is "try to see everything in its original language". Besides preserving originality and all that, they also teach you (albeit very small) bits of foreign language, which is bonus points in geekdom and always worth it.

[Eldan]

Actually... my english education consisted of four years of it in school and, as of now, approximately 8 years of english TV and tons of english novels... I still think I'm the only one from my old class who could actually have a conversation in english.

[UltraDude]

What would people call really good Dubs? I have heard that Cowboy Bebop is meant to be a really good Dub but i haven't really got anything to comparer it to.

Black Lagoon, Hellsing, and Samurai Champloo are commonly considered to be excellent dubs. Can't speak for BL, but Hellsing and Samurai Champloo are definitely pretty awesome. Most Ocean Group dubs tend to be considered merely decent, on the other hand - Gundam franchise, Escaflowne, Zoids.

...dangit, they keep getting all the mecha.

[Kris Strife]

The TTGL Break/Breaker thing isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be. One quirk of the Japanese language is that most consonants have a vowel sound with them, for example, when I went to Japan, my name was pronounced 'Kurisu'. Alternatively, he's using the drill to break stuff, Gunmen, anti-spirals, the heavens, what ever, not breaking drills. Well, not on purpose anyways.

Personally, I prefer a dub in an action/visual gag heavy show, cause I don't want to have to be looking at the bottom of the screen to understand whats being said, though I understand a lot of the hate for dubs come from the fact that they usually butcher the show in general to make it more kid friendly, ala, episode 6 in TTGL *shudders*, so when they go back and watch the show subbed, its usually uncut and is better in general than the dubbed version. The fact that its dubbed, not the fact that its been given the 4Kids treatment, is given the blame.

[The Evil Thing]

This is a little interesting. So non-native English speakers prefer subs, but more for practical reasons?

So... good dubs? Off the top of my head, anything that Disney touches is gold. Cowboy Bebop was also great (this thread is starting to sound like a broken record), but I thought they did a decent enough job with El Hazard too. Sure, Makoto sounded like he was perpetually stoned but the rest of the voice cast really grew on me, to the point where the original Japanese began to sound strange. Funny old world, innit?



You can convey a lot of information in Japanese from the way a person speaks - not their tone, but also the very words they use. Do they use "watashi", "boku", "ore-sama" or whatever else as the Japanese "I", do they end sentences with "kashira" or "-ze". It all matters.
Last but not the least, dubs don't have Norio Wakamoto.

I don't find dubs bad (usually), but I prefer subs.
Cubey, calling it "information" makes it sound more important than it usually is. If those pronouns and particles are actually relevant and not what you'd expect to crop up in a given social situation you can bet it would reflect in the translation too.

And yes, a lack of Norio Wakamoto is the dub's most fatal flaw. It may interest you to know that they didn't dub Chairman Kaga in Iron Chef but subtitled his lines instead. Clearly you're on to something here.

[Drascin]

Perhaps it's because I've only seen bad dubs, but in my experience the dubbed voice actors' voices...don't quite seem to match, for some reason. I listen to the voice acting, and watch the animation, and something just feels off, feels wrong.

Happens a lot to me, yeah. There ARE good dubs (for example, Disgaea is actually better English-dubbed than in original Japanese), but for the most part my luck with dubs has been abysmal. Of course, realize that to me, English is ALSO a foreign language, albeit one I can understand, so I'm generally talking about spanish dubs, which are... well. The less said the better. Apparently, there is not one actor among the Spanish VAs that can roleplay surprise better than the average fifteen year old roleplayer.

[UltraDude]

...So I guess we Americans (etc.) should count ourselves lucky to be native English speakers, in regards to dubs? Do any non-English dubs turn out alright, like maybe Italian?

[Prime32]

The TTGL Break/Breaker thing isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be. One quirk of the Japanese language is that most consonants have a vowel sound with them, for example, when I went to Japan, my name was pronounced 'Kurisu'. Alternatively, he's using the drill to break stuff, Gunmen, anti-spirals, the heavens, what ever, not breaking drills. Well, not on purpose anyways.However, "Break" would be bu-rei-ku, and in the original it sounds more like he's saying bu-rei-kaa.

Something related: Fans of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha had been calling Nanoha's Device "Raging Heart". Then Word of God said that it was spelled "Raising Heart", which is pronounced the same in Japanese but doesn't sound as cool or as fitting (Nanoha can be rather... passionate shall we say). The English dub ignored Word of God and referred to it as Raging Heart. :smallbiggrin:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Fandumb, mostly. Since many anime fans don't speak Japanese at a native level, they assume that good voice acting is the default in the Japanese version, and a rarity in the English version, because they can't detect bad acting in the former, but find it easily in the latter. As a result they convince themselves that the Japanese voice acting is inherently superior.

Hey, if you can't tell if the acting is bad you can't be annoyed at the bad acting :smallamused: I usually go with subs for this very reason. The acting might be terrible, but if I can't tell, I don't care. :smalltongue:


Apparently, there is not one actor among the Spanish VAs that can roleplay surprise better than the average fifteen year old roleplayer.

So true. :smallsigh: Spanish anime dubs really do tend towards appalling quality. Funnily enough I like the Simpsons' and Friends' dubs better than the originals, but I think that is equal parts quality VAing and me being more used to the dubs than the originals.

There are some good ones, though. Samurai Champloo and Cowboy Bebop come to mind... Paranoia Agent was quite good too. On the other hand, Mushi-shi was godawful.



[...]I also find that American voice actors are worse than bad when pronouncing Japanese names[...]

I find this tremendously annoying, and is another reason I shy away from dubs. It's quite understandable, but I can't help but find it very jarring when a names get pronounced so very wrong.

[UltraDude]

The English dub ignored Word of God and referred to it as Raging Heart. :smallbiggrin:

Word of God isn't necessarily better or even really true (see Gundam SEED Destiny).

I totally approve of this, by the way. Maybe Raising Heart would've made sense at first, but really... this is Nanoha we're talking about. Look at her reputation in StrikerS.

[Lord Seth]

Personally, I prefer a dub in an action/visual gag heavy show, cause I don't want to have to be looking at the bottom of the screen to understand whats being said, though I understand a lot of the hate for dubs come from the fact that they usually butcher the show in general to make it more kid friendly, ala, episode 6 in TTGL *shudders*, so when they go back and watch the show subbed, its usually uncut and is better in general than the dubbed version. The fact that its dubbed, not the fact that its been given the 4Kids treatment, is given the blame.To be fair, that was in the broadcast version, I believe on the DVDs it was uncut.

[Kris Strife]

To be fair, that was in the broadcast version, I believe on the DVDs it was uncut.

Oh, I know. I have the Special Edition DVD and it included the broadcast version of that episode as a special feature.

[GoufCustom]

Oh, another example of a dub that is not only good, but is better than the sub?

Shinesman.

[FoE]

Full Metal Alchemist was a good dub.

[Oregano]

All of John Lasseter's dubs of Disney movies are fantastically done. He really knows what people want, good acting with natural dialogue. Plus Disney also has the awesome Kingdom Hearts dub going for them.

[Manga Shoggoth]

In these modern days of DVDs it is very easy to forget that back in the day, when the only source of anime was a video tape from a specialist comic shop, you HAD to choose between dub and sub.

Even in those days there were very good dubs (Pioneer ones spring to mind) and some truely abysmal ones.

Why do I prefer subs?

Well, I like hearing the original voice in the original context. I know that anime comes from Japan, and that I need to make some cultural adjustments. Just like I have to when I watch something created in the USA.

Why do I dislike dubs?

Too many bad ones in the past. It is true that the more recent ones are better, but too many female VAs tend to suffer from screechy female voice syndrome.

However, a good dub is just as enjoyable as a good sub. Enjoy them for what they are.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Fandumb, mostly. Since many anime fans don't speak Japanese at a native level, they assume that good voice acting is the default in the Japanese version, and a rarity in the English version, because they can't detect bad acting in the former, but find it easily in the latter. As a result they convince themselves that the Japanese voice acting is inherently superior.

I normally hate to do this but: FINALLY

I've long since switched to mostly dub after realizing I had no basis for judging the quality of a language I don't understand. And wondering why there is no such thing as bad Japanese voice work in American anime culture. Because 99% of us wouldn't know it when it smacked us in the face.

(Unless they watch good old DBZ, gods the original music and voice work is screechy and whiny...)

I theorize that most people are semi-conciously filling in there own mental voices into a subbed anime. Which also explains the relative fewer complaints of those that watch a dub first, the voice don't seem bad because they don't have their own mental perfect ones yet.

[Joran]

I prefer subs. I can't think of how a show like Yakitate Japan! which relies on so many Japanese puns would be translated properly into a dub. English equivalents wouldn't really work. For example, there's a joke involving Indian naan and nandaiyo, which even in the English translated manga is translated as is with no explanation of the pretty funny pun.

Additionally, there are a few nitpicks I have with usual English dubs:

1) Odd pauses in dialogue: Matching the words in English to lips on screen leads to a few very odd pauses, which don't match the rhythm of English. Somewhat annoying.

2) Very cutesy voices: Cutesy voices in Japanese don't sound as annoying as cutesy voices in English. No idea why, but Chiyo's English voice GRATED.

3) Good deep voices: For some reason, I've yet to hear a half-decent deep samurai voice like Toshiro Mifune with that nice bass.

I'm going to guess numbers 2-3 are more related to the structure of Japanese and the sounds involved in speaking Japanese and not the skills of the voice actors.

That said, I enjoyed watching Witch Hunter Robin, Cowboy Bebop, and Hellsing in dub and don't really take a hardline stance. Just when given a choice, I usually pick the dub. My ears suck, so I sometimes have to turn on the subs anyway for English; I might as well listen to the original.

I did hear the most pretentious answer when someone was asked this question and they sniffed, "I prefer the untranslated version, since I know Japanese" ;)

P.S. Video game subs still suck, most of all for fighting games.

[GoufCustom]

Yeah, Yakitate!! Japan is one instance were a dub would not do well at all because it's so ridiculously FILLED with heavy Japanese puns. Even the title is a pun that doesn't translate to English. Portuguese or Spanish perhaps, but not English.

[thubby]

P.S. Video game subs still suck, most of all for fighting games.

but do fighting games really even need talking?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I prefer subs. I can't think of how a show like Yakitate Japan! which relies on so many Japanese puns would be translated properly into a dub. English equivalents wouldn't really work. For example, there's a joke involving Indian naan and nandaiyo, which even in the English translated manga is translated as is with no explanation of the pretty funny pun.

When it comes to puns though is there a substitute for actually speaking the language. A translator's note is much the same for me in either format, albeit less likely when a dub invents an alternate.

[Ravens_cry]

I don't see anything wrong with a good dub, often more information can be conveyed that way. That is why I watch both when I have the option. But even the best dubs have trouble with lip flaps. Also, I just love the way foreign languages sound, okay? I loved a subtitled Das Boot, Life is Beautiful, and Howl's Moving Castle , because i love the sound of other tongues, how other voices give voice to thought. Also, Calcifer was much more funny, in my opinion, when done by Tatsuya Gashūin then Billy Crystal.

[GoufCustom]

Mild tangent. Howl's Moving Castle was faaaar better as a book than a movie.

Okay, I'm done.

[Lord Seth]

P.S. Video game subs still suck, most of all for fighting games.Tales of Symphonia had a great dub cast. I thought the voices in The World Ends With You were pretty good also.


I can't think of how a show like Yakitate Japan! which relies on so many Japanese puns would be translated properly into a dub.I think BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo's dub managed it pretty well.

[The Evil Thing]

When it comes to puns though is there a substitute for actually speaking the language. A translator's note is much the same for me in either format, albeit less likely when a dub invents an alternate.
If by "translator's note" you mean those miniature essays fansubbers like to crowbar at the top of the screen then no, those need to die.

If it's really that important then it can be put in a separate document - kind of like what Aquastar did with the Negima OVAs - for the viewer to read at his own pace should he be interested. The other advantage besides not distracting people trying to watch the damn show is that one can be considerably more wordy and not detract anything from anything. After all, the whole point of a dedicated notes file is to inform and educate.

If memory serves, the (original) fansub of Otaku no Video came with such a document roughly the size of a phone directory.

[Prime32]

I think BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo's dub managed it pretty well.Well, the whole point of that show was to confuse the hell out of the viewer...

I laughed at the scene where Bobobo shouts that he cannot fill out a form because it's in Japanese though. :smalltongue:

[Kris Strife]

Well, the whole point of that show was to confuse the hell out of the viewer...

Seconded. Watching subless Japanese made just as much sense as watching it in English.

[kamikasei]

One factor that bugs me about dubs is that they often feel rushed; Japanese often seems to be pithier than English so while I can read a translation in the time it takes the actor to deliver the line in Japanese, a dub will often pare down the translation a bit and still come off as breathless. (This may partly be a bias due to the Ghost in the Shell series being the main thing I've watched dubbed recently, though.)

Also, what Joran said.


Fandumb, mostly. Since many anime fans don't speak Japanese at a native level, they assume that good voice acting is the default in the Japanese version, and a rarity in the English version, because they can't detect bad acting in the former, but find it easily in the latter. As a result they convince themselves that the Japanese voice acting is inherently superior.

The converse of this is that watching it in Japanese means any bad acting grates less than if it was in a language you speak natively.

[The Evil Thing]

The converse of this is that watching it in Japanese means any bad acting grates less than if it was in a language you speak natively.
This is true. Of course, I sometimes watch subbed versions just because I like hearing the voices of certain VAs.

[Kalbron]

My problems with dubs are three fold and others have covered them but:

1) Even with a partial understanding of the language, screechy high pitched Japanese girls are far more tolerable than English VAs attempting to reach said pitch for me. Don't know why, probably just personal preference.

2) Voices not fitting with how the characters act. Seriously, it just grates on me when you can distinctly tell that the high school student is being voiced by someone in their 30s. Full Metal Panic was annoying in that regard imo. The Japanese version may have the same issues, but I can't tell, so it doesn't bother me as much.

3) Prior experience with horrible dubbing.

That being said however, there are definitely shows that I absolutely hate the Japanese versions, ironically because they fit into my above listed issues. Cowboy Beebop being one of them. After listening to the dub I couldn't stand what I thought was poor voice selection for the Japanese version.

[Johel]

I was fine with dubbed animes when I was a child. Mainly because we didn't have access to the OV (and wouldn't have watch it anyway, back then).

Then I was introduced to Gundam Seed, Naruto, ect... which weren't dubbed yet so, sub were the only way to go. I mean, Japanese voicers are really motivated when they work, so it's actually really good !!

Then I tried to watch some old animes from my childhood (namely, Saint Seya) in sub version. It was ok, nothing special except the nostalgia.

Then I watched the same episodes, dubbed in French... Let's just say that our voicers aren't as motivated as the Japanese ones. It's "ok" when you're 8 and care more about the shiny pictures than about the story. But when you've heard the "japanese" version of Yoga's signature attack, you can't listen to the French dub anymore. The voicer gives the impression he's about to take a nap...

I got the same for several other animes (DBZ, Ranma 1/2, Fly (Dragon Quest), Gundam Seed,...). The english dub is usually slightly better, though. I'm no Japanese Fanboy but the japs really get shi-t done correctly.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I tend to go back and forth on subs/dubs, but I have a preference to subs, mainly because it's the original audio. Now, there's some examples of dubs like Howl's Moving Castle which are just excellent (Billy Crystal as Calcifer? Pure genius!), but then there's some other dubs which are just...bleah. I'm one of those, for instance, who can hardly stand to hear FMA's Alex Louis Armstrong dubbed in a deep yet slightly flat voice, as opposed to his wonderfully over-the-top Japanese voice actor. I'm also not exactly a fan of Vic's Ed Elric.

I also think that female voices tend to lose a lot when translated over into the English, although that may just be because I'm used to the expressiveness of the female Japanese voice casting. As another example, Winry Rockbell. (Yeah, yeah, it's FMA again. Bear with me, I haven't seen that many anime.) There's just so much expressiveness that gets....well...

I think it's "Americized" that I'm looking for. Because the vast majority (AFAIK) of dubs are from America, the actors tend to heavily Americize the dubs, which is a total cultural mismatch...one bad side effect of this is shounen male leads sounding like they've just got a bad case of attitude.

[Ravens_cry]

Woah, woah, Alex Louis Armstrong's English dub sounding. . .flat? WOw, I got to check this out. Oen of the major things I loved in Full Metal Alchemist was the over the top, boomy voice of Chris Sabat.
And if he sounds flat in comparison. . .
This I have to see, er, listen.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Woah, woah, Alex Louis Armstrong's English dub sounding. . .flat? WOw, I got to check this out. Oen of the major things I loved in Full Metal Alchemist was the over the top, boomy voice of Chris Sabat.
And if he sounds flat in comparison. . .
This I have to see, er, listen.
I may be a bit hasty in my judgment, but to me, he sounds too boomy, and not so much visceral (but not in an intense way, rather, an over-the-top emphasis way) gusto.

[Ravens_cry]

I may be a bit hasty in my judgment, but to me, he sounds too boomy, and not so much visceral (but not in an intense way, rather, an over-the-top emphasis way) gusto.
Well, he is primarily a comic relief character, IMHO. When things get too serious, he provides that extra bit of humour. We can't always get our comedy by ragging on how short Edward is. Seriously, he rips off his shirt at every opportunity, surrounded by pink sparkles I might add, and says practically everything he does is a 'technique passed down the Armstrong line for generations.' How is that not 'over-the-top emphases'? Not to say he can't be serious too, and his dub voice suits even then. Calm, measured, but deep as a coal mine. Like a white James Earl Jones.
I am sure the original is good, probably great, but I really like the voice for him in the English dub. And your talking to a moderately raging subtitle fiend.

[Ravens_cry]

CarpeGuitarrem, I would just like you to know I just watched a bit of FMA: Brotherhood subbed and the Japanese voice actor for Major Armstrong is, indeed, mega awesome. Your right, it is much more visceral. Is that the same man who played Edward Steam in Steamboy? They sound similar.