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HCL
2009-10-04, 06:18 PM
I was thinking about how awesome it would be to have a raptoran character that jumped clear over the opponent's head on a charge and hit them with their reach weapon, then ended their turn on the other side of them in a non-threatened square.

However, the jump mechanics make it insanely hard to jump any good distance as a humanoid. To get to a height of 10 feet up (to get out of the melee reach of a medium character), its a DC 40 jump check. If you have 18 strength (+4) and 42 ranks in climb, I am a raptoran (+10), and you have a 40' move speed, and no armor, you are at a +20 modifier and can only hit that on a natural 20. If I kick up my strength to 22 and play a barbarian with 4 ranks in jumpI get a +30 and can hit it on a 8 or higher.

Then I was thinking I could use the spear to polevault (I did track back in high school), but I couldnt find any rules for it. You could call a masterwork spear a masterwork tool, but that would still only provide a +2 modifier. Are there any rules out there to make my dream of jumping humans at level 1 come true?

imp_fireball
2009-10-04, 06:28 PM
There's also the swift trait which offers an additional +10ft. speed at an hp penalty.

I think polevaulting would be a houserule.

It might be a good homebrewing effort to create a traditional non-magic oriented mechanics for olympics in the D&D world (the olympics originated in ancient times).

Already, if you're a barbarian with swift trait and you have run feat, you can be a world class sprinter at 250ft. move/round, which is a little over 30km/h.

HCL
2009-10-04, 06:34 PM
A druid could cast jump, which would kick me up another +10. Could combine that with avenger druid, and whirling frenzy lion totem barbarian for both rage and whirling frenzy, along with animal devotion which could kick me up to 28 (+9) strength at level 2. And with casting jump while wearing leather, I could probably get it to auto success... at level 2.

Oh, damn I cant rage and whirling frenzy at the same time....

ericgrau
2009-10-04, 06:40 PM
I was thinking about how awesome it would be to have a raptoran character that jumped clear over the opponent's head on a charge and hit them with their reach weapon, then ended their turn on the other side of them in a non-threatened square.

However, the jump mechanics make it insanely hard to jump any good distance as a humanoid. To get to a height of 10 feet up (to get out of the melee reach of a medium character), its a DC 40 jump check. If you have 18 strength (+4) and 42 ranks in climb, I am a raptoran (+10), and you have a 40' move speed, and no armor, you are at a +20 modifier and can only hit that on a natural 20. If I kick up my strength to 22 and play a barbarian with 4 ranks in jumpI get a +30 and can hit it on a 8 or higher.

Then I was thinking I could use the spear to polevault (I did track back in high school), but I couldnt find any rules for it. You could call a masterwork spear a masterwork tool, but that would still only provide a +2 modifier. Are there any rules out there to make my dream of jumping humans at level 1 come true?

There are plenty of ways to get jump boosts. Each +10 to speed gives a +4. You can use both a jump magic item and a potion or spell of jump at the same time, since the bonus types are different. The run feat gives a +4. You'll need spring attack anyway to pull this off legally, and that prevents the AoO. So really you only need to clear 6-7 feet, for a jump DC of about 25. I could easily see using a pole as a jump tool for the stated +2, though you'll have to ask your DM. For example:

levels: +3 + level
Barbarian 1: +4 (from speed)
boots of striding and springing (5500 gp): +9 (4 from speed)
strength (18+4 from rage): +6
pole: +2
run feat (optional): +4
Total: 28 + level. Automatic success on jump check. You could skip the boots and still have a chance of succeeding on level 1.

Zaq
2009-10-04, 06:43 PM
Totemists have a few soulmelds that increase Jump by a fair bit, either by increasing the checks directly or increasing land speed. Granted, if you're using reach weapons with a Totemist, you're kind of losing out (all those natural weapons, yours for the taking!), but it could be an option for a dip.

Also, there's a lot of good stuff in Tiger Claw to boost your jumps. But you knew that.

Fluffles
2009-10-04, 09:42 PM
Go warblade and get all the nice jump tricks from Tiger Claw :smallbiggrin:

Leaping Dragon stance? Hells yeah! All jumps are considered as having a running start, so you can just do it again and again!

LibraryOgre
2009-10-04, 10:43 PM
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/10003.html

Wrote some rules for this about 3 years ago.

imp_fireball
2009-10-05, 01:19 AM
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/10003.html

Wrote some rules for this about 3 years ago.

That works pretty darn well. Now what about other sports? Beach volleyball is the only I can think of that isn't 'traditional olympics' and isn't covered by D&D, aside from team sports like hockey, soccer and american football.

EDIT: Volleyball is a team sport, never mind. Water polo would be volley ball in the water, also (no need for swim checks, it's shallow, even).

EDIT (again): I think the next candidate should be either golf or tennis.

Let me know if you feel the thread is getting derailed here.

AslanCross
2009-10-05, 03:40 AM
Go warblade and get all the nice jump tricks from Tiger Claw :smallbiggrin:

Leaping Dragon stance? Hells yeah! All jumps are considered as having a running start, so you can just do it again and again!

This. I'm pretty sure there's a maneuver that specifically allows you to jump at an enemy, attack him, and land in any adjacent space. Just can't remember which one at the moment.

Grumman
2009-10-05, 03:49 AM
I was thinking about how awesome it would be to have a raptoran character that jumped clear over the opponent's head on a charge and hit them with their reach weapon, then ended their turn on the other side of them in a non-threatened square.
How about a (Nonpsionic) Thri-Kreen? 40 ft movement speed and a +30 racial bonus to jump checks for 2 racial HD and +1 LA.


Then I was thinking I could use the spear to polevault (I did track back in high school), but I couldnt find any rules for it.
Wouldn't you need something more flexible than a spear?

HCL
2009-10-05, 07:20 AM
Mmmm, just say its a bamboo spear.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-05, 09:21 AM
That works pretty darn well. Now what about other sports? Beach volleyball is the only I can think of that isn't 'traditional olympics' and isn't covered by D&D, aside from team sports like hockey, soccer and american football.

EDIT: Volleyball is a team sport, never mind. Water polo would be volley ball in the water, also (no need for swim checks, it's shallow, even).

EDIT (again): I think the next candidate should be either golf or tennis.

Let me know if you feel the thread is getting derailed here.

Most team sports can actually be solved by profession checks... they're complicated rules-and-action sets that might get synergy from other skills, but aren't going to be, necessarily, covered by them. Volleyball might get a bonus from Jump, for example. You might even use synergy from things like BAB... if you have a +5 or better BAB, you get a +2 to Profession: Baseball or Profession: Volleyball checks... while your skill in volleyball or baseball counts for a lot, the fact that you are highly accurate in time-limited situations gives you a bonus to hitting the baseball or volleyball as it goes by.

Jayabalard
2009-10-05, 10:40 AM
Mmmm, just say its a bamboo spear.That really doesn't seem reasonable... if it had enough flexibility to be used for pole vaulting, it seems like it would be awfully easy to defend against.

arguskos
2009-10-05, 10:49 AM
Uh, there's a Vault feat in the Dragon Compendium.

Vault
Requirements: Str 13, Jump 4 ranks
Benefit: If you are wielding a polearm, the DC for long jumps is reduced by 5, and the DC for a high jump is set to x3 distance to be cleared.

Sorry, it's not that great. Just thought I'd toss that out there for ya.

imp_fireball
2009-10-05, 11:03 AM
Most team sports can actually be solved by profession checks... they're complicated rules-and-action sets that might get synergy from other skills, but aren't going to be, necessarily, covered by them. Volleyball might get a bonus from Jump, for example. You might even use synergy from things like BAB... if you have a +5 or better BAB, you get a +2 to Profession: Baseball or Profession: Volleyball checks... while your skill in volleyball or baseball counts for a lot, the fact that you are highly accurate in time-limited situations gives you a bonus to hitting the baseball or volleyball as it goes by.

I meant actually playing a game of tennis or golf using the D&D/d20 rules. Might as well choose another profession if you're going for a profession skill so as to not confuse synergies.

Cieyrin
2009-10-05, 12:01 PM
Why hasn't Expeditious Retreat been mentioned? You get a higher jump bonus from the +30 feet of movement than the +10 you get from Jump at 1st level, which is +12, assuming a 30' movement or higher. The effective bonus is higher if you have 20' movement, since you cancel teh -6 from having 20' and then get another +8 from the additional 20' of movement, so +14 effectively. :smallbiggrin:

Also, It's a little better to go with the psionic thri-kreen, if only to qualify for Speed of Thought for the +10' insight bonus to speed.

Also, Vault isn't that bad, really. Reducing the high jump modifier from 4 to 3 means that you effectively get a scaling bonus to your jump. Since a 10' high jump is normally DC 40 and with the feat is DC 30, that's effectively a +10 bonus and only gets better the more outlandish your jump gets.

Also, for other sports, you should check out the Goat ball rules in Races of Stone. That's good times to be had.

HCL
2009-10-05, 12:15 PM
Why hasn't Expeditious Retreat been mentioned? You get a higher jump bonus from the +30 feet of movement than the +10 you get from Jump at 1st level, which is +12, assuming a 30' movement or higher. The effective bonus is higher if you have 20' movement, since you cancel teh -6 from having 20' and then get another +8 from the additional 20' of movement, so +14 effectively. :smallbiggrin:

Also, It's a little better to go with the psionic thri-kreen, if only to qualify for Speed of Thought for the +10' insight bonus to speed.

Also, Vault isn't that bad, really. Reducing the high jump modifier from 4 to 3 means that you effectively get a scaling bonus to your jump. Since a 10' high jump is normally DC 40 and with the feat is DC 30, that's effectively a +10 bonus and only gets better the more outlandish your jump gets.

Also, for other sports, you should check out the Goat ball rules in Races of Stone. That's good times to be had.

Any ideas on how to reduce MAD if I multiclassed into Wiz/Sorc at 2nd level? Here is the character so far

http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=7282

I think that the easiest way to get Expeditious Retreat without suffering spell failure would be Archivist or Battle Sorcerer. Are there any ACFs for Archivists? Also, is there a feat to cast spells while I rage?

Cieyrin
2009-10-05, 01:49 PM
Any ideas on how to reduce MAD if I multiclassed into Wiz/Sorc at 2nd level? Here is the character so far

http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=7282

I think that the easiest way to get Expeditious Retreat without suffering spell failure would be Archivist or Battle Sorcerer. Are there any ACFs for Archivists? Also, is there a feat to cast spells while I rage?

Well, if you want to be able to cast the Expeditious Retreat yourself, Battle Sorcerer is probably the path to go, given Expeditious is only on the Bard and Wiz/Sor list (which is weird, as I'd've thought it would be on the Ranger list as well, at least). To reduce MAD this way, I'd switch your Wisdom to Charisma and take Force of Personality instead of Zen Archery, as that'll cover your Will save for the most part, as well as handle your gish-like casting.

As for casting in rage, there's only 2 methods I'm aware of and they're both PRCs: Rage Mage (CW) and Champion of Gwynharwyf (BoED). Champion does its own casting with a spell list, which doesn't have Expeditious, so you're stuck w/ Rage Mage. As Rage Mage isn't that great, I'd just buff before you rage, as Expeditious does last minutes per level, which should cover combat.

Personally, I'd just take 1 level of Battle Sorcerer and then just use wands if you want to keep your current setup, as you'll have a spell list that you can't actually cast but you'll have the know-how to utilize a wand (weird, I know but eh...). Just build a Wand Chamber in your weapon of choice and then don't worry about having to draw the wand to use it.

HCL
2009-10-05, 02:04 PM
Well, if you want to be able to cast the Expeditious Retreat yourself, Battle Sorcerer is probably the path to go, given Expeditious is only on the Bard and Wiz/Sor list (which is weird, as I'd've thought it would be on the Ranger list as well, at least). To reduce MAD this way, I'd switch your Wisdom to Charisma and take Force of Personality instead of Zen Archery, as that'll cover your Will save for the most part, as well as handle your gish-like casting.

As for casting in rage, there's only 2 methods I'm aware of and they're both PRCs: Rage Mage (CW) and Champion of Gwynharwyf (BoED). Champion does its own casting with a spell list, which doesn't have Expeditious, so you're stuck w/ Rage Mage. As Rage Mage isn't that great, I'd just buff before you rage, as Expeditious does last minutes per level, which should cover combat.

Personally, I'd just take 1 level of Battle Sorcerer and then just use wands if you want to keep your current setup, as you'll have a spell list that you can't actually cast but you'll have the know-how to utilize a wand (weird, I know but eh...). Just build a Wand Chamber in your weapon of choice and then don't worry about having to draw the wand to use it.

if I multiclass into Cleric with the magic domain I could also use wands. Still brainstorming as to how this character should work