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Master_Rahl22
2009-10-05, 02:37 PM
I'm applying to a game on Myth Weavers starting at level 3 with access to "almost every book printed" for 3.5. My abilities as rolled are 17, 15, 14, 13, 13, 12. I think I've decided I want some kind of gish build since I've never really made one before. So, any ideas for a gish starting at level 3?

Keld Denar
2009-10-05, 02:41 PM
Best at 3 would probably be Duskblade3. Str > Int > Con > Dex > Wis > Cha

Channel a Shocking Grasp through your sword for weapon +3d6 and then Sudden Quicken another Shocking Grasp for another 3d6.

Beyond that, you could do ok with Pal2/Sorcerer1 with Enlarge Person and Mage Armor as your 2 spells. Practiced Spellcaster would be your 3rd level feat.
Str > Cha > Con > Dex > Int > Wis

Alternatively, Fighter1/FS Transmuter2 would be BAB2 and you could have more feats and be able to cast Enlarge Person as many times as the Sorcadin.
Str > Int > Con > Dex > Wis > Cha

Tavar
2009-10-05, 02:42 PM
Well, Psychic Warrior and Duskblade are both Gish-y, though they approach it from different angles(Psychic Warrior uses alot of buffs, Duskblade channels damaging spells through his weapon).

The other main build I've seen is Sorcadin. Basically, use Battle Sorceror+Paladin+Gish PrC's(Spellsword dips, Abjurant Champion). I've never really used it, but there are several posters who have, and have positive stories.

Eldariel
2009-10-05, 02:43 PM
I'm applying to a game on Myth Weavers starting at level 3 with access to "almost every book printed" for 3.5. My abilities as rolled are 17, 15, 14, 13, 13, 12. I think I've decided I want some kind of gish build since I've never really made one before. So, any ideas for a gish starting at level 3?

Duskblade 3 or Warblade (or Fighter or Paladin some such) 1/Wizard 2 or Wizard 3 or Loredrake Kobold Sorcerer 3 or Paladin 2/Sorcerer 1. Meh, multiclass gishes are pretty weak up until ~level 8-9 or so. Duskblade is extremely strong early on but drops behind as the levels increase.

Best is probably single-classed caster with Militia or Elf. Starting off on 3, single-classed Wizard keeps you contributing casting-wise and you can enter Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) to turbocharge your gishiness soon enough; right now you can make the hits with your stat rolls alone.

Glimbur
2009-10-05, 02:44 PM
Multiclassed gishes aim for as much wizard as possible. At such low levels if you try that route you'll feel like... a) a wizard, maybe with unusual stats and feats; b) a wizard with a level of fighter strapped on, or c) a fighter with levels of wizard.

Let me instead direct your attention to the Duskblade from PHB II. At higher levels their limited spell list hurts more, but they play like a Gish from 1-20.

tl;dr Either don't be a gish now (multiclass route) or be a gish now and not optimized (as defined by 9th level spells) great later (Duskblade)

Eldariel
2009-10-05, 02:45 PM
tl;dr Either don't be a gish now (multiclass route) or be a gish now and not optimized (as defined by 9th level spells) great later (Duskblade)

Note though that a high Str Wizard can hit just as hard as a Fighter or a Barbarian on these levels, with just a point or two of less BAB. The differences aren't that pronounced early on in the career.

Keld Denar
2009-10-05, 02:46 PM
Battle Sorceror+Paladin+Gish PrC's(Spellsword dips, Abjurant Champion).

No no no no no!!!! Never Battle Sorcerer! NEVER! You can qualify for Spellsword as a Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1 and then from there head into AbjChamp. Battle Sorcerer CRIPPLES a Sorcadin build, since you only get its benefits for 4 levels but you suffer its drawbacks for nearly ALL your career. BAD!!!!!

jiriku
2009-10-05, 02:52 PM
I think you should go for battle sorcerer just to watch Keld Denar fail a Will save and run screaming into the wilderness.

Keld Denar
2009-10-05, 03:01 PM
Pshhhh, madness? I got the Madness DOMAIN! If he does, I'll use my 1/day bonus to my will save and outmadness his madness! RAWR!

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-05, 03:01 PM
I think you should go for battle sorcerer just to watch Keld Denar fail a Will save and run screaming into the wilderness.

Well judging by his Avatar... I think he would fail his will save and have cthulhu burst from him and devour us all..

Fax Celestis
2009-10-05, 03:03 PM
No no no no no!!!! Never Battle Sorcerer! NEVER! You can qualify for Spellsword as a Pal2/Sorc4/Spellsword1 and then from there head into AbjChamp. Battle Sorcerer CRIPPLES a Sorcadin build, since you only get its benefits for 4 levels but you suffer its drawbacks for nearly ALL your career. BAD!!!!!

Battle Sorcerer is only good if (a) you know what you're doing; (b) your books allowed are limited to Core + UA; and/or (c) you build with the idea in mind that you're not a spellcaster: you're a fighter who doesn't need to make UMD checks.

Keld Denar
2009-10-05, 03:05 PM
Ok....never Battle Sorcerer if you are planning on PrCing out of it, like, into Swift Blade, AbjChamp, etc. If you are gonna be a Battle Sorc20 because for some reason you can't PrC, then this would be a viable option. That involves some rather wonky restrictions though...

Fax Celestis
2009-10-05, 03:09 PM
Ok....never Battle Sorcerer if you are planning on PrCing out of it, like, into Swift Blade, AbjChamp, etc. If you are gonna be a Battle Sorc20 because for some reason you can't PrC, then this would be a viable option. That involves some rather wonky restrictions though...

For games where the limitation is "anything on d20srd.org", it's pretty much the only viable arcane gishlike at low levels.

Master_Rahl22
2009-10-05, 03:09 PM
Ooo, I can't believe I didn't spot this earlier. I just noticed Jade Phoenix Mage. Obviously I can't get into it at level 3, but what would be a good level 3 character aiming for JPM? Right now I'm thinking Warblade and Wizard since I like Warblades and Wizards have the Int synergy. Warblade3, War2/Wiz1, War1/Wiz2, Wiz3? What do you guys think?

Tavar
2009-10-05, 03:17 PM
Oh, I didn't notice the restriction that it only works on spells gained from actually Battle Sorcerer levels. Wow, that...sucks.

Fax Celestis
2009-10-05, 03:18 PM
Ooo, I can't believe I didn't spot this earlier. I just noticed Jade Phoenix Mage. Obviously I can't get into it at level 3, but what would be a good level 3 character aiming for JPM? Right now I'm thinking Warblade and Wizard since I like Warblades and Wizards have the Int synergy. Warblade3, War2/Wiz1, War1/Wiz2, Wiz3? What do you guys think?

I actually am a fan of Duskblade 5/Warblade 1 into JPM. Hooray for Int!

Eldariel
2009-10-05, 03:23 PM
For games where the limitation is "anything on d20srd.org", it's pretty much the only viable arcane gishlike at low levels.

Straight Wizard with high Str and Con is a perfectly viable Gish; though you'll need to rely on Toad for some HP. Sure, you aren't quite as good as straight Fighter, but on level 2, they're only one-two points ahead of your To Hit, for example.

Haven
2009-10-05, 03:30 PM
Ooo, I can't believe I didn't spot this earlier. I just noticed Jade Phoenix Mage. Obviously I can't get into it at level 3, but what would be a good level 3 character aiming for JPM? Right now I'm thinking Warblade and Wizard since I like Warblades and Wizards have the Int synergy. Warblade3, War2/Wiz1, War1/Wiz2, Wiz3? What do you guys think?

I'd say War2/Wiz1, since at that level the extra HP will give you a bit more survivability at that level (plus, hey, Uncanny Dodge and +2 Reflex).

Though Fax's suggestion is also pretty excellent.

Master_Rahl22
2009-10-05, 03:52 PM
The Duskblade class looks cool, but I'm really not impressed with the spell list. I think I'm going with Warblade 2/Wizard 1, going for 3 of each before JPM.

Darrin
2009-10-05, 04:14 PM
Ooo, I can't believe I didn't spot this earlier. I just noticed Jade Phoenix Mage. Obviously I can't get into it at level 3, but what would be a good level 3 character aiming for JPM? Right now I'm thinking Warblade and Wizard since I like Warblades and Wizards have the Int synergy. Warblade3, War2/Wiz1, War1/Wiz2, Wiz3? What do you guys think?

If Focused Specialist+Precocious Apprentice is available, Warblade 5/Wiz 1/JPM 10/Abj. Champ 4 would be a lot of fun. If you want 9th level spells, you can rework that with more Wizard/Spellsword and less Warblade.