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Kylarra
2009-10-06, 10:38 AM
So like Sublime Chord, Divine Crusader gets 9th level casting in 9 levels (10 if you don't get 9th level bonus spells). The major downside I see is that your capstone is the monk's capstone-trap, but anyway, are there any domains that would make taking DC worthwhile? I assume it's meant to be a Paladin class, but with minimal investments (ie one feat), you could theoretically go Bard 10/DC 10 or something similar.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-06, 10:44 AM
Is this the Good/Neutral alternative to the Ur-Priest? Bard 8/Fighter 1/DC 2/SC 1/MT 8?That's awkward as all hell, but maybe it would work.

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-06, 10:45 AM
Divine Crusader only gets to cast Domain spells.

Kylarra
2009-10-06, 10:45 AM
Sadly no. Divine Crusader's entire spell list is one domain from their chosen god. :smallfrown: Otherwise it'd be no question.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-06, 10:47 AM
Ah. I just read the entrance requirements. :/
Spell domain to get Anyspell?

Kylarra
2009-10-06, 10:56 AM
Ah. I just read the entrance requirements. :/
Spell domain to get Anyspell?
Hmm, I actually didn't think of that, but it could work. You'd probably have to get DM fiat to change disjunction to something your party would actually want you to cast though.

Grumman
2009-10-06, 11:01 AM
Could a Divine Crusader prepare and cast Sanctified spells?

JeenLeen
2009-10-06, 11:02 AM
Hmm, I actually didn't think of that, but it could work. You'd probably have to get DM fiat to change disjunction to something your party would actually want you to cast though.

If you can somehow fit turning Disjunction into a Ray, it'd be useful at least sometimes. Metamagic isn't good as it's already level 9, but Spellwarp Sniper (C Scroundel)

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-06, 11:03 AM
Could a Divine Crusader prepare and cast Sanctified spells?

Technically yes, they are Prepared casters after all.




Points: The Elder Evil Serotous grants every domain to his followers. You can cheat by adding more spells to your spell list.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-10-06, 11:07 AM
I could see that being a fun class especially if you pick it up as a fighter or some thing other then a paladin or cleric.

Boci
2009-10-06, 11:09 AM
Points: The Elder Evil Serotous grants every domain to his followers. You can cheat by adding more spells to your spell list.

You like that supplement don't you?

P.S. When I read this title I thought someone had come up with a cheesy equivilant to the arcane swordsage.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-06, 11:11 AM
Well, technically, it ain't a god, and is thus an invalid target. But DM (the most likely user of such a thing) can break the rules that way.

woodenbandman
2009-10-06, 11:16 AM
Divine crusader is a good class for any noncaster. There's no real drawback to being able to cast 9th level divine spells, especially when Contemplative and such advance it, and you can talk your DM into allowing the Spontaneous Divine Casters variant. Be a Divine Crusader of the Sovereign Host.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-06, 11:18 AM
You like that supplement don't you?

P.S. When I read this title I thought someone had come up with a cheesy equivilant to the arcane swordsage.

Yes, I do.


Well, technically, it ain't a god, and is thus an invalid target. But DM (the most likely user of such a thing) can break the rules that way.

Neither is a concept. And yet Divine Crusader allows you to worship a concept too.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-06, 11:23 AM
And yet Divine Crusader allows you to worship a concept too.

*boggle*
I'm missing a lot of things in my reading today...

But couldn't you just worship whatever concept you need, anyway?

Kylarra
2009-10-06, 11:26 AM
Divine crusader is a good class for any noncaster. There's no real drawback to being able to cast 9th level divine spells, especially when Contemplative and such advance it, and you can talk your DM into allowing the Spontaneous Divine Casters variant. Be a Divine Crusader of the Sovereign Host.Hmm, that's true. I guess I wasn't really thinking about it, since yeah, other divine PrCs could advance you to 9 easily without having to take the perfect self crapstone.

Keld Denar
2009-10-06, 11:37 AM
I made a build a while back thats basically Paladin5/Fighter2/DC1/OrdainedChamp4/FistofRazriel8.

TONS of Cha synergy. Nab Law Devotion, Awesome Smite, and some other Cha centric feats and smash people with your massive Cha score. My character worships a campaign specific hero god who is basically a wandering do-gooder, and as such has Travel and War (OC bonus). So far works out pretty decently, but one thing I have noticed is a massively saggy caster level. Practiced Spellcaster helps some, but unlike some of the other late entry caster classes like Sublime Chord, Suel Arcanamach, and Ur-Priest, DC doesn't have any mechanic to protect you from getting the bajebus dispelled out of you, and you can't really take Abjurant Champion levels to set your CL equal to your BAB like in most SA and martially oriented SC builds.

jiriku
2009-10-06, 11:52 AM
DC combos well with PrCs that grant additional domains. Just pick through the half-dozen available and find one best suited to your concept, and an extra domain will double the number of spells you have to choose from at each level. Arguably, I think an evil DC could also benefit from the spells granted by the Mother Cyst feat.

Akal Saris
2009-10-06, 11:57 AM
Looks like a pretty sweet build there Keld =)

Another possibility would be Crusader 7/DC 1/OC 5/Sacred Exorcist 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 6, assuming that there's a cleric domain with Dismissal or Dispel Evil as a 4th level spell. Doesn't quite sneak in the RKV's best ability though - maybe just Crusader 7/DC 4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 8 would work out better.

Keld Denar
2009-10-06, 12:22 PM
Kill OC5. OC5 doesn't really give you THAT much. OC4 is the best level. That gives you room to fit in RKV7 for the awesome Divine Impetus.

Balance domain (SpC) gives Dismissal as a 4th level spell. It kinda sucks though. Good domain gives Dispel Evil as a 5th level spell, which might delay progression. The Elysium planar domain (SpC) also gives Dispel Evil, again at 5th level, although I don't think DC's can take planar domains since they require you to give up both of your normal domains, and DCs only get 1.

Akal Saris
2009-10-06, 12:31 PM
Good suggestions - the Good domain seems to be the best of the choices for fluff and power, though it also means that Divine Impetus is bumped all the way to 20th (though it's a terrific capstone ability).

All in all, it's probably not as strong a build as straight crusader, but it would be interesting to play, especially since the SM IX from the Good domain also opens up all of the spells and SLAs of the good outsiders from that spell line.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-06, 12:39 PM
*boggle*
I'm missing a lot of things in my reading today...

But couldn't you just worship whatever concept you need, anyway?

Elder Evil devotion has benefits too. I'm just saying that that's the best route to take if you are an Evil Divine Crusader.

Keld Denar
2009-10-06, 01:50 PM
Cept....Divine Crusader...is Good only...

It even has one of those pesky "Ex-Divine Crusader" clauses that includes the even more damning:

An Ex-Divine Crusader cannot change her devotion to a different deity in order to regain abilities and advancement potential. Once a divine crusader has failed one deity, no other deity trusts the character with these powers.

Kylarra
2009-10-06, 01:52 PM
Cept....Divine Crusader...is Good only...
DC isn't good only, DC is "exact alignment as Deity only".

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-06, 01:53 PM
Cept....Divine Crusader...is Good only...

It even has one of those pesky "Ex-Divine Crusader" clauses that includes the even more damning:

No, it just has to match the chosen deity or concept. If the alignment shifts, then they fall. It doesn't say "Any Good" in the Prerequisites.


Edit: ninja'ed Dammit Kanta, you're supposed to tell me these things!

Keld Denar
2009-10-06, 02:03 PM
Hmmm, thats kinda funny. I just reread over it, and I'm seeing this. Whats really awkward is that ALL DCs get more Celestial resistances (Acid/Electricity) even if they should normally get more Fiendish resistances (Fire/Cold).

Just kinda odd, IMO.

Thespianus
2009-10-06, 02:10 PM
But, wait... I'm a complete tool when it comes to optimizing spellcasters, but... It seems to me that something like a Militia Trained Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Abjurant Champion 2/Divine Crusader 2/Mystic Theurge 8 would end up with Level 9 arcane spells and Level 9 Divine spells (ok, granted, a limited set, but still). 17th levels of arcane casting and 10 levels of Divine Crusader casting.

That's kinda cool, innit? :)

I'm sure I've picked horribly poor classes for this, but.. still, kinda cool :)

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-06, 02:10 PM
Hmmm, thats kinda funny. I just reread over it, and I'm seeing this. Whats really awkward is that ALL DCs get more Celestial resistances (Acid/Electricity) even if they should normally get more Fiendish resistances (Fire/Cold).

Just kinda odd, IMO.

The picture doesn't help either.