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Loki Eremes
2009-10-07, 01:06 AM
Hi there pals,
the question is simple:
- Getting Two-weapon fighting FEAT...allows me to attack twice per turn as a STANDAR ACTION?

if not...
How could i do this?

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 01:07 AM
It does not. The Dual Strike feat, however, does.

EDIT: Two weapon fighting just reduces penalties for attacking with two weapons as a full round action.

Myrmex
2009-10-07, 01:09 AM
Doesn't Dual Strike suck, though? Is that the one that prevents using SA on both attacks?

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 01:09 AM
It's rather sub par. However, it's the option he's looking for.

sadi
2009-10-07, 01:12 AM
Only other thing I can think of is part of the tempest prestige class that lets you attack twice as part of a spring attack besides dual strike that you can't take until level 6 at the earliest.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 01:15 AM
There are also options in the PHB2 for feats that give you multiple attacks on a spring attack, I believe.

Mongoose87
2009-10-07, 01:20 AM
Or you could take the Lion Totem Barbarian variant from Complete Champion, and get Pounce.

Loki Eremes
2009-10-07, 01:24 AM
Im a Sneak Attack user so, two more questions:
1- dual strike? where is it?
2-


It's rather sub par. However, it's the option he's looking for.

WTF? o.o

(sry, noob here xD)

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 01:25 AM
While useful for allowing multiple attacks as part of an alternate full round action, it's less-so for other purposes. Sometimes you need that move action for something else.

Dual Strike is in Complete Adventurer, if I remember correctly.

sadi
2009-10-07, 01:26 AM
Complete adventurer pg108-109 and to answer your question that you're probably thinking sneak attack damage is only applied on one of the attacks not both.

Faleldir
2009-10-07, 01:33 AM
And it's not even two attacks. What were they thinking?

Loki Eremes
2009-10-07, 01:40 AM
mmmh...Getting to full attack with pounce...
Is there a rule to prevent sneak attack while charging? lol

Mongoose87
2009-10-07, 01:41 AM
mmmh...Getting to full attack with pounce...
Is there a rule to prevent sneak attack while charging? lol

None that I'm aware of, and certainly not when they're flanked.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-07, 01:42 AM
Tiger claw maneuvers from Tome of Battle. You can get them via feats.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 01:49 AM
mmmh...Getting to full attack with pounce...
Is there a rule to prevent sneak attack while charging? lol

You can sneak attack any time you meet the prereq's. Either deny dex or flank.

The at-range equivalent is Rapid shot, and can deliver sneak attacks from 30 feet. Full attack sniping is even possible, with a little work.

Eldariel
2009-10-07, 09:24 AM
You can sneak attack any time you meet the prereq's. Either deny dex or flank.

The at-range equivalent is Rapid shot, and can deliver sneak attacks from 30 feet. Full attack sniping is even possible, with a little work.

Easiest for all is Greater Invisibility, blinded opponents, the Grease-spell or similar.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-07, 09:37 AM
Tiger claw maneuvers from Tome of Battle. You can get them via feats.

Lycan beat me to it. If you want to use multiple attacks as a standard action, play a Warblade or Swordsage who focuses on Tiger Claw/Iron Heart/Desert Wind maneuvers. Diamond Mind gets 2 powerful ones, but those are high level options (the other three get the ability nearly off the bat).

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 10:04 AM
Easiest for all is Greater Invisibility, blinded opponents, the Grease-spell or similar.

Still can't full attack snipe like that, even if they're all sneak attack.

Hawriel
2009-10-07, 01:55 PM
The short sword of speed, or any weapon with the magic effect of speed, give you a second full bab attack for free.

Haven
2009-10-07, 02:03 PM
Thirding the Tiger Claw option. You might just want to dip a level of Swordsage, since on top of the Tiger Claw maneuvers, you can also pick up the Shadow Blade feat, which is pretty beautiful for a TWF rogue (as long as you're using short swords or daggers, that is). Also, the "Island of Blades" stance makes it much easier to flank foes.

And if you're using two daggers you could also consider taking the "Bloodclaw Master" prestige class, which (if you use daggers or other Tiger Claw weapons--but I suggest daggers to get the Shadow Blade bonus on top of that) lets you add your full strength bonus and, at level two, takes away the -2 for attacking with two weapons.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 02:12 PM
The short sword of speed, or any weapon with the magic effect of speed, give you a second full bab attack for free.

Only on a full attack action, however. It's of no use on a standard action.

Eloel
2009-10-07, 02:16 PM
mmmh...Getting to full attack with pounce...
Is there a rule to prevent sneak attack while charging? lol

I have a build that utilizes this.

Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Rogue 9/Assassin 10 with Neraph Charge (Planar Handbook) after casting Wraithstrike. You don't care about what you wield, nor your to-hit, you're hitting flat-footed touch AC.

With Haste, and enough TWF, that's 7 attacks, all touch, all vs flatfooted, all dealing a nice amount of SA damage. Add a level of monk somewhere in there for an extra attack from flurry, and maybe add stuff like Roundabout Kick for MOAR attacks. (Fangs of the Vampire King adds a bite attack you can use. Nice to have, for extra SA damage. Craven is a must-have)

Loki Eremes
2009-10-07, 11:20 PM
I have a build that utilizes this.

Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Rogue 9/Assassin 10 with Neraph Charge (Planar Handbook) after casting Wraithstrike. You don't care about what you wield, nor your to-hit, you're hitting flat-footed touch AC.

With Haste, and enough TWF, that's 7 attacks, all touch, all vs flatfooted, all dealing a nice amount of SA damage. Add a level of monk somewhere in there for an extra attack from flurry, and maybe add stuff like Roundabout Kick for MOAR attacks. (Fangs of the Vampire King adds a bite attack you can use. Nice to have, for extra SA damage. Craven is a must-have)

Pretty Brutal, i loved it

yup, craven is my first feat xD



SRY, BUT NO - TOME OF BATTLE -
my DM hates it.

pilvento
2009-12-21, 11:06 AM
Pretty Brutal, i loved it
SRY, BUT NO - TOME OF BATTLE -
my DM hates it.

we all in the table hate it

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 11:15 AM
we all in the table hate it

You poor, deprived people. :smallfrown:

ChakraChanter
2009-12-21, 11:35 AM
So if you like your sneak attack damage, I would suggest you use Telling Blow (PHB2 p 83). It allows you to add your sneak attack damage whenever you crit. With a keen Elven Light Blade, you'll be doing some good damage.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-21, 03:18 PM
So if you like your sneak attack damage, I would suggest you use Telling Blow (PHB2 p 83). It allows you to add your sneak attack damage whenever you crit. With a keen Elven Light Blade, you'll be doing some good damage.
I'm concerned. Why would someone who's getting most of their damage from sneak attack spend a valuable feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven lightblade)? It does the same damage as a rapier, which Rogues already get proficiency in. And rapiers also work with Weapon Finesse. That only leaves the weapon being light, so I have to conclude that (in keeping with the topic at hand) you're relying on the Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree. This brings the feat roster to:

Craven
Weapon Finesse
Telling Blow
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven lightblade)
Two-Weapon Fighting
That's a lot of feats, and they're all focused on dealing more damage. This selection squeezes out useful feats like Darkstalker (Lords of Madness, page 179) to let you Hide against enemies with Scent, Blindsight, Tremorsense, or similar abilities. Or Savvy Rogue (Complete Scoundrel, page 80) to leverage all of your Rogue special abilities. (Who wouldn't want to be able to "take 12" on their skill checks in combat?) Or even the simple, useful Improved Initiative so you'll get to sneak attack flat-footed foes in the first round of combat.

Now, Telling Blow can be statistically beneficial, because it allows sneak attack damage when
you're more than 30' away
the target has concealment
you don't have a flanking partner
It's the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven lightblade) that I can't come to grips with. Is there some way to get this as a racial bonus that I don't know about? Because, lacking that sort of thing, it seems like bad advice to me. Every time you choose a sub-par feat, you're blocking yourself from taking something that could improve your survivability.

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 04:11 PM
Tome of Battle is the best way to do TWF. The Wolf Fang Strike maneuver is available to Swordsages and Warblades at Level one. Attack with both weapons as a standard action.

Later maneuvers allow you to make a full attack on a charge, or give you extra attacks with each weapon you wield. Finally, Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip gives you a monstrously powerful rend attack.

EDIT: Well, if anyone here hates ToB, that's just too bad. :smallfrown: