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FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 04:29 AM
I'm plotting out my own setting and for it I've decided to make a living construct template (based on the warforged stats in eberron). I like what I have so far, but I'm not so great with figuring out the +CR that the template would give.

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- Hit Dice increases to d12.
- +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma
- Damage reduction 10/Piercing, Slashing, or Magic (I wanted to give a slight invulnerability to bludgeoning. If there's a better way of stating this, I'd be very open to it.)
- Mysterious Anatomy (Light Fortification)

What do you wizards of knowledge think? Thanks in advance!

Myrmex
2009-10-07, 05:02 AM
I say it depends on the party in question and whether you're applying the template to a creature with any charisma dependency.

In general, I would say it provides about a +1 CR for levels 1 to 3, +1/2 CR levels 4 to 10, and +0 CR to any levels above that.

This is assuming 36 pb, rogues that use TWF & flank, fighters that trip & use power attack multipliers, clerics that buff, wizards that buff/debuff & use battlefield control spells, and no one plays monks. At low levels, the huge bonuses to HPs, and a decent bonus to saves & touch attack means it is a more durable melee opponent. Low levels are largely confined to close, ground based combat, with little means of alternate movement, so the buff to melee combat is meaningful. At higher levels, damage output from the party rogue/fighter will be such that the d12 HD will be necessary to keep it from going down in 2 rounds, and the other bonuses are too trivial to really matter.

If your party is heavy on direct damage, especially precision damage and multiple, non-bludgeoning attacks, the HD bump & light fortification could mean a lot more, perhaps doubling the CRs I've given above. Depending of course, on the monster it is applied to.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 05:08 AM
My party is a Paladin, Rogue/Cleric, Swordsage/Ranger, and a Sorcerer/Fighter/Barbarian. For reference.

Myrmex
2009-10-07, 05:11 AM
Looks heavy on the melee. Do they rely on full attacks with multiple attacks and primary weapons that don't do bludgeoning? Cause that's what I'm getting out of a rogue & ranger.

I'd say +1 CR for levels 1 through 10, then. A CR 1 monster becoming a CR 2 monster is a big change compared to a CR 8 monster becoming CR 9.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 05:24 AM
Pretty much.

The Rogue/Cleric does what he can while the Paladin acts as the tank. The multi-class of three rages and kills things while the Swordsage/Ranger laughs at my monsters. It's a fun party.

How about the damage reduction thing though? Is there a better way of wording that?

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-07, 05:31 AM
I'd actually say, by comparison to current races, that it's +1 to +2.

That still puts it in the bounds of being entirely bought off by LA buyoff by level 12.

I say 1-2, because, if it changes class HD to D12, then it's +2.

If it changes Racial HD to D12, without affecting class, then it's +1.

Class HD, and there's no reason for a wizard not to take this. Ability to repair, +2 Dex, and +5 HP per level? Along with Damage Reduction?

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 05:33 AM
It's Racial HD.

Myrmex
2009-10-07, 05:34 AM
Couldn't you just write down "Bludgeoning resistance [ex]: a creature with this template ignores the first 10 points of damage from a non-magical bludgeoning source. This ability counts as damage reduction for the purposes of feats, abilities, prestige classes, etc."


I'd actually say, by comparison to current races, that it's +1 to +2.

That still puts it in the bounds of being entirely bought off by LA buyoff by level 12.

I say 1-2, because, if it changes class HD to D12, then it's +2.

If it changes Racial HD to D12, without affecting class, then it's +1.

Class HD, and there's no reason for a wizard not to take this. Ability to repair, +2 Dex, and +5 HP per level? Along with Damage Reduction?

We're discussing CR, not LA. They are different, and serve different purposes.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 05:38 AM
Couldn't you just write down "Bludgeoning resistance [ex]: a creature with this template ignores the first 10 points of damage from a non-magical bludgeoning source. This ability counts as damage reduction for the purposes of feats, abilities, prestige classes, etc."

I totally could and that's actually much better than what I wrote. With your permission, I'd gladly insert that into the template instead.

Myrmex
2009-10-07, 05:40 AM
I totally could and that's actually much better than what I wrote. With your permission, I'd gladly insert that into the template instead.

Permission DENIED.
Buahahaha!





Nah, knock yourself out.
That's a fiendish little template for your party, you know that? The rogue's going to be PISSED.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-07, 05:43 AM
I think he'll find it fun. Especially since he's a mostly a Cleric that uses a mace. They all sorta know of my idea, just not the numbers behind it. So it will be a nice surprise when they finally face a monster with this on it.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-18, 10:45 PM
Update:

The party faced off against a Young Emerald Dragon with this Template. The Rogue/Cleric didn't land one hit the whole time. The Pally dropped into the negatives but was brought back by the Cleric who was at 0 then dropped. The Barb/Sorcerer/Fighter fought hard, doing tons of damage, but was killed with a full attack barrage. And the Swordsage/Ranger dropped but stabilized at the last moment to land the killing blow before the dragon's (then at 4 HP) next turn.

The final standings, before the last blow was:

Pally: 1 HP
Swordsage 0 HP
Cleric/Rogue: -3
Barb/Sorcerer/Fighter: -13

I had my first PC kill... by accident.

:smalleek:

lsfreak
2009-10-18, 10:56 PM
Dragons are pretty rough in the first place, especially in a case like this where all the PC's are going to be in range to be torn new ones by full attacks.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-18, 11:38 PM
I'd say +2 CR, but it only makes sense for melee.

For a sorc or something, it'd be +1 tops, and even then, a very suboptimal choice.

Barb/Sorc/Fighter sounds like an interesting build, though...I guess it could make a good gish if done right, but it sounds hard to pull off.

Kylarra
2009-10-18, 11:39 PM
considering the cha penalty, it's more than a tad suboptimal for a sorc.