View Full Version : Beguiler+Versatile spellcaster

2009-10-07, 12:46 PM
I have a friend playing a beguiler, and he's arguing that with versatile spell caster he can get access to higher level spells, Can he or is he mistaken?

2009-10-07, 12:52 PM
It's controversial here. Some claim it lets you use two of your highest level to cast a spell that's your highest level + 1 metamagic on it... but you won't have an expanded spell list until you actually level up. Others claim that in the moment you give up the two spells' energy, you suddenly gain knowledge of the entire spell list a level up from you, and can use that energy for a spell on the expanded list.

(I'm sure the rest of the thread will contain the arguments for each position, but the upshot is that you'll have to decide yourself).

2009-10-07, 01:10 PM
My understanding of the feat is that it would let you cast spells of a level higher than you can currently cast, but you only learn those spells when you actually level up. (So a first level beguiler couldn't cast second level spells from his list, ie Knock by sacrificing 2 first level spell slots since he would have an artificial slot but not know the spell yet)

People on CharOp forums seem to assume you would need heighten spell for the early PRC entry cheese they're usually trying to pull with this feet. (getting access to 2nd/3rd level spells faster). They know the system a lot better than I, and if they say versatile spellcaster alone doesn't give you the go ahead on higher level spells, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with them.

2009-10-07, 01:15 PM
Short answer: Ask your Dm.

Long Answer: I like to think that you can access higher level spells, but even if you cant, I still take the feat with almost all my spontaneous casters.

2009-10-07, 01:15 PM
The wording for beguilers:
"When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all the spells for that level on the beguiler’s spell list."

So, yes. Or no. Does Versatile grant you access to a new level of spells? Yes. Sort of. Maybe.

(Note that sorcerers are different for early-entry, they need Versatile + Precocious + Heighten in order to meet the requirements while beguilers arguably only need Versatile Spellcaster.)