PEACH my Spell (series) for my character? [3.5]

[Kanosint]

Hi,

I'm making a character reminiscent of Freudia Neuwahl, from RKS fame.
She has mastery over ice magic, and her signature move, and thus the one I seek to recreate, is the Freudenstachel.
Perhaps Ice Darts [Frostburn] is the closest spell so far, but I want to make a full series, from 0 to 9, to ensure that it will pretty much always be a reliable blasting spell. What she does is create a storm of icicles from her hands, they're fast, but they do low damage (likely 1d4 and eventually 1d8 at the late levels)... The main emphasis is on a LOT of icicles.

Ed.: As posted at the current last post, I finally developed a spell. I know, making this a full spell series is not optimal. I do not mind, I just want to play an icicle cannon XD

Freudia’s Stakes of Joy I
Conjuration/Evocation [Cold]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft/2 levels)
Effect: 1 Ice Stake/level (max. 10)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special [see Text]
Spell Resistance: No

As you stretch out your arm, palm towards the target, dagger-sized shards of ice materialise out of thin air, leaving trails of vapour in their wake as they streak out from your hand.

Icicles dart forth from the palm of your hand. Each icicle deals 1d4 Piercing damage, and 1 Cold damage. This spell can be used in multiple ways, as described below. For the purpose of this spell, your BAB is equal to ¾ your CL using your primary casting ability as a bonus. At higher levels, it allows multiple attack actions, as with regular BAB.

Single Shot: When casting this spell you may make a full attack with the stakes. This requires a regular Ranged Attack.
Volley: Instead of a single stake, you may choose to fire a volley instead. You can mix volleys with single shots if you have enough attacks for it. Every volley expends 3 or more of the created stakes, and can thus only be performed if at least 3 stakes remain. A volley requires a ranged attack roll, receiving a +1 bonus on the attack roll for every stake above 1 (so a regular 3-stake volley gets a +2 bonus). Hitting deals regular damage. Every 3 points by which you exceed the opponent’s AC results in an extra hit with a stake. On a critical, only the first stake deals double damage.
Area: This takes up the full attack. It takes at least 5 icicles. Choose the area you wish to affect. It has to be a sphere with a radius of at least 5 feet, but there is no maximum other than a practical one. You need line of effect. Make a single ranged attack roll. Everyone inside the area of effect must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + Spell Level + Casting Modifier, +(Attack Roll/5, rounded down), -5 for every 5 foot increase of the radius of the area, +1 for every icicle above 5.). On a success, they take no damage. Failure means they take damage. By every 3 points by which they fail, they receive one additional hit.

You can save any amount of icicles for up to 1 round + 1 rnd./5 levels, rounded down. After that time, all remaining icicles are lost.


There you have it :3 Any feedback?

[Xefas]

It sounds a whole lot like you'd be much happier playing a Kineticist (Psion).

They have lots of cold-damage based blasty options, and instead of needing a new ability every single level to keep up, you can just augment your lower level powers by spending more power points to make them equivalent to higher level powers.

Psionics is close enough to magic that it doesn't really require refluffing either. Just calling it 'magic'.

[Kanosint]

No, I'm quite certain that Sorcerer is the class that suits the character best. Plus, I'm quite Simulationist in my desires in D&D, thus, I'm seeking multiple projectiles. Any ideas for this?

[Kanosint]

Does no one have any idea how best to solve this pickle?

[Boci]

So you want a series of ice based area spells? All offer reflex save for half.
Level 0: 1 damage
Level 1: 1d4 per two level (max 5d4)
Level 2: 1d4 per level (max 5d4) + area becomes difficult terrain
Level 3: Energy substituted fireball
Level 4: Fireball with 1d4 damage but also fort save or be slowed for 1 round
ect

[Violet Octopus]

Do you really want to take up 9 known spells (a lot for a sorcerer) for incrementally better versions of the same effect? You can get away with one every 2 levels, maybe less. Also means less homebrewing:smallwink:

AoE is probably the best way to go. Perhaps 1st level can be a cold version of burning hands, maybe as a line effect instead. Higher levels could be bigger, more damaging cones. Or maybe it can just be one or two icicles, attack roll, no save.


Problem is, it seems so arbitrary to prevent the firing of individual icicles at one point. Any ideas on this?
Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean "if it's icicles shooting out in a cone, there's no explanation as to why I couldn't avoid hitting a certain square"?

If so, you could have the spell have an option of excluding certain targets in the cone, but any other targets along the same line of effect are also going to be unaffected. That'd be pretty cool, though it'd have to do less damage than cone of cold to balance.

[Kanosint]

Hmmm, one every other level could work, true. I'm mostly going for a machinegun-like effect, though, as in, rapid firing of individual icicles... A bit like MM and Ice Darts. So not exactly fir... frostball/cone of cold/Hailstorm/...

[Violet Octopus]

Here's a spell that might suit you - based off cone of cold:

Samuel's Spikesicles of Stabbing
Conjuration [Cold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Samuel's spikesicles of stabbing sends hundreds of icicles out of your hand in a cone, dealing 1d10 damage per 2 caster levels (maximum 8d10). Half of the damage is cold damage, half is piercing damage. You have fine control over what angles the crystals spray out, and may choose certain targets within the area of effect to be unaffected. However, all other targets along the same line must also be excluded from the spell's effects.

To determine what targets lie along a line you're excluding, draw a line from any corner of the caster's square (your choice) to any corner of the target's (that you with to exclude) square. All squares that line touches or crosses are excluded from the spell's effect.

[ericgrau]

^ Rules for determining which squares a line touches already exists. Might as well stick with those. They are: Draw a line from any corner of the caster's square (his choice) to his target. All squares that line touches or crosses are hit (or, in your case, not hit).

Typically I'd just take lower level cold spells and metamagic them up. Especially as a sorcerer. If you're going to make a series of spells, I'd add some variety. There's no big advantage to all that damage when you could just use metamagic. You're really just losing a ton of spells known.

Other cool cold spells to consider for inspiration include sleet storm and wall of ice. There's a ton more, just look and then come up with your own cool effects, rather than "I do X damage."

[deuxhero]

Isaac's Greater Missile Swarm (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Isaac%27s_Greater_Missile_Storm) can be used for inspiration. Generally you'll want to up the dice for using ice instead of magic/force though.

[Set]

Make a 2nd tier Reserve Feat that requires Winter's Blast as a prerequisite, and creates a cone shaped spray of icy blades that do 1/2 cold damage and 1/2 piercing or slashing damage. Have the Icy Blades appear in either a cone, like Winter's Blast (and do 1d6 / level instead of 1d4 / level), and perhaps even allow a third feat to allow for increased range and versatility (such as creating a line of icy blades, instead of a cone).

Basically, she'd be burning up her Feats to turn into a Reserve-Feat powered 'ice-lock.' Check out Unearthed Arcana's Cold Domain Wizard for a selection ice SRD available Cold spells to power her feat, or tap into places like the Spell Compendium or Frostburn for other options.

For a first level 'Cold' spell, she could just have a custom version of Chill Touch that has the same mechanical effects, but is Evocation [Cold] instead of Necromancy. (For further tweakage, it might cause temporary Dex damage instead of temporary Str damage.)

[Violet Octopus]

^ Rules for determining which squares a line touches already exists. Might as well stick with those. They are: Draw a line from any corner of the caster's square (his choice) to his target. All squares that line touches or crosses are hit (or, in your case, not hit).

Oh, OK then. I was unaware of that rule. Shall edit the spell now. Do you think the spell has merit though, besides the wonky rule? I was considering making it 1d12, but d10s are more common.

And you're right about metamagic, although DCs don't improve so it's still worth taking more than one direct damage spell. Perhaps I'll make a lesser version which can be metamagicked up.

[Kanosint]

Oh, I'm well aware that these are inferior choices. If I wanted power I'd play Batman :P But I'm not after that, I'm after Kewl, and I'm a simulationist at that ;3 I do not enjoy too much abstraction in such vital points of my character ;3 So yeah, mostly going for tons of light-damage projectiles, though I'm looking for a good way to 'even it out', it shouldn't take TOO long (10 attacks a round is about my max XD) but it shouldn't just 'gloss over' the fact that I'm firing a barrage of icicles by making it a fluffed-up fireball... That's not my style, I'm afraid...

[Vizzerdrix]

The feat Spell Thematics (Faerun Players guide: pg 44) will take care of the appearance.

Energy Substitution should make it cold.

And force Missile Mage (From a Dragon mag) should get you a nice spray of darts.

Also, Frost Mage can be found in The Frostburn book. Deals with cold casting.

Hope this helps ^_^

[The Witch-King]

My two cents...

Play an ice-themed warlock.

Now you're a magic based character and you can shoot ice all the live long day and you can even get mods to blast ice at people in different ways and without crippling your character as a sorcerer who takes improved versions of the same spell over and over and over again.

[Violet Octopus]

here's a good tool for finding cold spells from all the obscure books:
http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php
according to it, there are 58 spells with the cold subtype printed for 3.5 (by WotC)
Hope it helps :)

Cloud of knives (PHB2) is another great spell that can easily be refluffed to icicles (as I mentioned in a similar thread)

I don't think people are so concerned about power as they are by loss of versatility. Which admittedly, can equal more power, but also allows your character to be more inventive and fun in situations.

Traditionally the way that d20 modern and Star Wars have represented autofire is to do an area effect with a reflex save, which is why people have been suggesting tweaked fireballs/cones of cold. From your OP I thought you were OK with that, but if you're not, there's nothing wrong with sticking with attack roll spells or magic missile-type spells.

[Kanosint]

As a further clarification, these are some specifications for me and my character. These are not mutable except in the most extremely perfect circumstances.

-She's a Sorcerer.
-She has no feats to spare.
-She will take levels in Frost Mage as well as Wintermage PrC.
-She has a variety of cold and misty spells.
-I'm looking for advice on her 'signature' spell, Freudenstachel.
-I read and possess over 90% of D&D books, including campaign settings, including the material from the more well-known third party developers. The spell I'm looking for is not in any of those books, no, not even in Frostburn, although Ice Darts (from Frostburn) comes close.
-I'm a simulationist, as I said before, and I thus do not seek tons of abstraction in my signature spell. She fires a barrage of icicles, the mechanics should reflect this.
-I'm picky, yes :P But I do not mind complex mechanics, if they feel 'right'. I have no qualms with math.

The series does not have to be full level. Even just an idea how I could solve the problem is very much welcome. Not to offend, but Spell Thematics and Energy Substitution are not exactly what I'm looking for... Hence this post, with which I hope to make my question a bit clearer for you.

The spells themself fire a barrage of multiple shards of ice, dealing low damage each, but they come in massive numbers... Even the Level 1, at maximum power, should fire 10 icicles from her hands. Higher Spell Levels result in more icicles, a true Macross Missile Massacre, for those familiar with that Trope. At level 9, firing a hundred icicles should be something of a goal. One problem, the problem to which I seek answers. How can I keep the feel of multiple non-seeking projectiles and the variety of 'modes' one can use it for, without getting too bogged down with tons of rolling. It should be a simple choice between single shot, volley fire, area suppression, ... Each of which should have strengths and weaknesses in a certain situation.

Why a problem? Well, the methods I thought of have problems: attack rolls, not only are they less effective, they also bog the game down massively if single shots or even volley fire is preferred. It does allow for distinction, however.
Magic Missile method is fast and effective, but it lacks the variety of the attack roll method, seeing how you hit with all missiles all the time.

I hope this clears up the exact nature of this question.

Kind Regards,

Kano.

[Voldecanter]

I don't have the Time right now to make this Spell for you but I have an idea you may like for a spell :

You Transmute the Element of air into Ice , or you semmingly Freeze the air around people , object or an area .

[Kanosint]

Ah, thank you Violet Octopus, the site did give me two new spells I did not yet know about.

Cloud of Knives is indeed one of the better spells that fit.

And you are right, I do not mind the autofire attacks, but while I have a rather limited blaster, I seek versatility in the spell itself. As explained by my previous post :3

Kind Regards,

Kano.

[Kanosint]

It seems this request has gotten more difficult, ey? ;)

I must say that I'm getting more and more fascinated by Cloud of Knives, though only one blade per round is not a lot for my... purposes...

[Kanosint]

Thanks to Cloud of Knives, I managed to build a decent approximation. Feedback is very welcome, except for 'but making this a spell series is not optimal' or 'but why not refluff [such 'n so]?' because I know both, and I went through with this because hey, icicles are cool [pun intended :P]

Freudia’s Stakes of Joy I
Conjuration/Evocation [Cold]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft/2 levels)
Effect: 1 Ice Stake/level (max. 10)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special [see Text]
Spell Resistance: No

As you stretch out your arm, palm towards the target, dagger-sized shards of ice materialise out of thin air, leaving trails of vapour in their wake as they streak out from your hand.

Icicles dart forth from the palm of your hand. Each icicle deals 1d4 Piercing damage, and 1 Cold damage. This spell can be used in multiple ways, as described below. For the purpose of this spell, your BAB is equal to ¾ your CL using your primary casting ability as a bonus. At higher levels, it allows multiple attack actions, as with regular BAB.

Single Shot: When casting this spell you may make a full attack with the stakes. This requires a regular Ranged Attack.
Volley: Instead of a single stake, you may choose to fire a volley instead. You can mix volleys with single shots if you have enough attacks for it. Every volley expends 3 or more of the created stakes, and can thus only be performed if at least 3 stakes remain. A volley requires a ranged attack roll, receiving a +1 bonus on the attack roll for every stake above 1 (so a regular 3-stake volley gets a +2 bonus). Hitting deals regular damage. Every 3 points by which you exceed the opponent’s AC results in an extra hit with a stake. On a critical, only the first stake deals double damage.
Area: This takes up the full attack. It takes at least 5 icicles. Choose the area you wish to affect. It has to be a sphere with a radius of at least 5 feet, but there is no maximum other than a practical one. You need line of effect. Make a single ranged attack roll. Everyone inside the area of effect must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + Spell Level + Casting Modifier, +(Attack Roll/5, rounded down), -5 for every 5 foot increase of the radius of the area, +1 for every icicle above 5.). On a success, they take no damage. Failure means they take damage. By every 3 points by which they fail, they receive one additional hit.

You can save any amount of icicles for up to 1 round + 1 rnd./5 levels, rounded down. After that time, all remaining icicles are lost.


Kind regards,

Kano.

[Kanosint]

Hmmm, no advice on this? Is it too strong, too weak? No replies for almost a full day on this forum is not a good sign ^^;

[DracoDei]

Looks reasonable to me... although I have never dealt with volley fire or area fire in actual play.

[Kanosint]

I made some mild alterations to the spell. Behold.

Freudia’s Stakes of Joy I
Conjuration/Evocation [Cold]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft/2 levels)
Effect: 1 Ice Stake/level (max. 10)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special [see Text]
Spell Resistance: No

As you stretch out your arm, palm towards the target, dagger-sized shards of ice materialise out of thin air, leaving trails of vapour in their wake as they streak out from your hand.

Icicles dart forth from the palm of your hand. Each icicle deals 1d4 Piercing damage, and 1 Cold damage. This spell can be used in multiple ways, as described below. For the purpose of this spell, your BAB is equal to ¾ your CL using your primary casting ability as a bonus. At higher levels, it allows multiple attack actions, as with regular BAB.

Single Shot: When casting this spell you may make a full attack with the stakes. This requires a regular Ranged Attack.
Volley: Instead of a single stake, you may choose to fire a volley instead. You can mix volleys with single shots if you have enough attacks for it. Every volley expends 2 or more of the created stakes, and can thus only be performed if at least 3 stakes remain. A volley requires a ranged attack roll, receiving a +1 bonus on the attack roll and a +2 bonus on damage for every stake above 1. On a critical, the extra damage is also multiplied.
Area: This takes up the full attack. It takes at least 4 icicles. It affects a 10’ radius. You need line of effect. Everyone inside the area of effect must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + Spell Level + Casting Modifier, +1 for every 2 icicles). On a success, they take no damage. Failure means they take damage. By every 3 points by which they fail, they receive one additional hit.

You can save any amount of icicles for later use.

Please give me feedback.

Kind Regards,

Kano.