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Callos_DeTerran
2009-10-08, 11:23 AM
This is a really simple thread. How many people actually play d20 modern/future/past and all the variants of that? What are some of your best memories of it? Any bad experiences that could be mis-construed as hilarious?

Amador
2009-10-08, 11:42 AM
I play occasionally. Best memory is probably a campaign based off of Section B-13. I hacked the FBI once. Never finished it but it was awesome.

Zincorium
2009-10-08, 12:16 PM
I've played it a few times- it's a lot more flexible than most RPGs, but more regulated than GURPS or BESM because it's not trying to be universal.

The key thing I've found is focus- of the two long-running games I've been a part of, one was rambling and changed what it wanted to be as the DM got a little bored or got caught up in something, and the entire personality and play style I had ended up being appropriate. The other was a shadow-chasers game with a monolithic evil we were engaged in undermining, and it was awesome.

To put it slightly differently, D20 modern can be a lot of things, but it shouldn't be all of them.

Delwugor
2009-10-08, 12:23 PM
I played Future for 2 short adventures, hopefully never again.

The worst experience came from my unarmed party of 4 was held at gun point by 3 men. We ended up attacking them (and taking some initial hits) and eventually winning against them. By the same combat mechanics, pointing a gun in their leader's face was not enough for me to stop him from running away and escaping. :smallconfused:
The worst part of that combat was that overcoming a situation where you're unarmed and at gun point should be very cinematic. This was fairly long battle with lots of tactics and not much in the way of awesomeness. :smallfrown:

We did do a trail combat session with True20, 2 vs 2 all armed and armored accordingly, sounds like a dull start to a battle. But turned out to be very exciting and cinematic, and every round a character faced the prospect of dying. I liked it very much and hopefully the next time we play a modern/future campaign we will use that instead of D20 Modern/Future.

Dhavaer
2009-10-08, 02:13 PM
I ran an extended series of Urban Arcana games; they went fairly well but probably would have been a lot better if I'd actually had a plot or something in mind. Planning helps.

Choco
2009-10-08, 02:20 PM
I played Future for 2 short adventures, hopefully never again.

The worst experience came from my unarmed party of 4 was held at gun point by 3 men. We ended up attacking them (and taking some initial hits) and eventually winning against them. By the same combat mechanics, pointing a gun in their leader's face was not enough for me to stop him from running away and escaping. :smallconfused:
The worst part of that combat was that overcoming a situation where you're unarmed and at gun point should be very cinematic. This was fairly long battle with lots of tactics and not much in the way of awesomeness. :smallfrown:

We did do a trail combat session with True20, 2 vs 2 all armed and armored accordingly, sounds like a dull start to a battle. But turned out to be very exciting and cinematic, and every round a character faced the prospect of dying. I liked it very much and hopefully the next time we play a modern/future campaign we will use that instead of D20 Modern/Future.

Yeah, thats one part of the game I heavily houseruled. Basically if somoene is being held at gunpoint, and wants to try to escape/attack/whatever else, all parties involved make initiative checks. If one or more of the people doing the holdup win initiative and choose to fire, it is either an instant kill or at least a KO with a forced massive damage save (depending on the situation, guns involved, where they were pointed, etc.), if the person being held up wins initiative, then combat starts as normal. That seemed to work well and the group had a lot of fun, really added the sort of danger and fear of death that staring down the barrel of a gun should. A shotgun blast point blank to the face dont care if you are the strongest, beefiest, most testosterone-filled man in the world after all :smalltongue:

Ravens_cry
2009-10-08, 02:27 PM
I have played it. It was a lot of fun honestly. The setting was actually a nearby city, so that familiarity added a nice depth. The funny thing was the DM was expecting us to all pick firearms. But. . .we were Canadians, playing Canadians. Guns? We don't have no stinking guns! Sadly, the game ended after only a few sessions, but it was fun while it lasted.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-08, 02:30 PM
Funny, I once played a Canadian game where we all had guns - and took whatever excuse we could to get them. One criminal, one law enforcement officer, one antique weapons collector, one American who happened to be in Canada when the zombie apocalypse hit...

Joran
2009-10-08, 02:36 PM
Best moment in d20 Modern was in a setting with some fantasy elements, we dropped into a sewer and were confronted with water elementals. One person in our party thought quickly and asked the DM if he had dried mashed potato flakes in his pocket. A quick wealth check and indeed, he had the flakes.

He sprinkled the flakes onto the nearest elemental for 1D4 damage ;)

The recent Delonte West story reminded me of the various ways we tried to hide the fact that we were dragging an arsenal behind us. I think my character held something like 5 handguns with an assault rifle strapped to his back.

A guitar case is actually a pretty smart idea.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/18/delonte-west-arrested-on-gun-charge/

Ravens_cry
2009-10-08, 02:38 PM
Funny, I once played a Canadian game where we all had guns - and took whatever excuse we could to get them. One criminal, one law enforcement officer, one antique weapons collector, one American who happened to be in Canada when the zombie apocalypse hit...
Well, I live on the west coast, BC Bud and neo-hippies galore. Same country, different world I guess.

Zincorium
2009-10-08, 03:35 PM
I played Future for 2 short adventures, hopefully never again.

The worst experience came from my unarmed party of 4 was held at gun point by 3 men. We ended up attacking them (and taking some initial hits) and eventually winning against them. By the same combat mechanics, pointing a gun in their leader's face was not enough for me to stop him from running away and escaping. :smallconfused:

I honestly do not understand your confusion. This was in combat, right? If there is shooting going on, and a gun points in your direction, what person in their right mind wouldn't run?

Holding people at gunpoint fails all the time, it's not some sort of ultimate paralysis. Frankly, unless you're deathly scared of guns in general, you have the option of the (borderline suicidal) charge towards your attackers. Or the more realistic attempt to flee.


The worst part of that combat was that overcoming a situation where you're unarmed and at gun point should be very cinematic. This was fairly long battle with lots of tactics and not much in the way of awesomeness. :smallfrown:

You can't blame the game for this, sorry.


We did do a trail combat session with True20, 2 vs 2 all armed and armored accordingly, sounds like a dull start to a battle. But turned out to be very exciting and cinematic, and every round a character faced the prospect of dying. I liked it very much and hopefully the next time we play a modern/future campaign we will use that instead of D20 Modern/Future.

WTF. Seriously, I have played both, and you make no sense to me.

Cinematic play and excitement are all in how the game is run and how interested the players are- I can play anything from Rifts to Risus and get the same feel out of it if I'm really interested.


@Choco: I'd freaking hate that.

'Holding someone at gun point' is a readied action to fire at someone. Meaning, you get a free shot when they take an action. If it doesn't kill them, you didn't shoot them in the face. That would be a critical hit.

Shooting someone helpless in the face is a coup de grace, which it is commonly houseruled can be done with guns.

You're adding in bad rules to fill a nonexistent hole.

B0nd07
2009-10-08, 03:51 PM
Since I'm the only one in my group with the books (not counting pdfs), I've only been the GM/DM. The first one was a World War 3 campaign that lasted 2 or 3 sessions. Since then I've been doing hybrids of DnD supplemented with Modern rules. I had a couple campaigns that I scrapped and one on-going. I'm thinking of doing a pure Modern campaign after this one. Possibly a zombie apocalypse.

So far, I think the most memorable thing so far was from the last adventure:

The party was trying to escape from a crime syndicate's headquarters that was located on the top floor/roof of a sky-scraper. After a battle, they barricaded all the doors to the room they were in, and went outside where the helipad is. There was no other way out, besides going through the goons trying to break down the door, so they tied a rope to the helipad and repelled down the side of the building. After breaking in the window a floor down, three of the five of them made it down fine. The other two failed their climb checks. The first managed a reflex save to grab the rope just before the end and was helped up. The second failed his reflex and would have fallen if it wasn't for one of the first three standing next to the window making his reflex to save the falling player.

Delwugor
2009-10-08, 05:11 PM
You can't blame the game for this, sorry.
Actually I do! My reasoning why d20 failed for me but True20 succeeded is lethality of combat.:

d20 relies on the HP mechanics I have 50 HP and take 7 damage no big deal I can keep fighting. This works really well in D&D because the sword cut my arm but it didn't drive into my body, I can still fight and kill that SOB. I have played D&D and Paladium fantasy for years and it works.
This does not work for modern and future settings because guns and lasers and bombs should be very lethal. I have 50 HP and take 7 from being shot no big deal I can keep fighting. It should be "I GOT SHOT help me I don't want to die".

For True20 being shot once can mean you are going to die. The combat shifts from endurance (HP) to surviving (Condition) and hence you are going to to do things more to survive and win quickly - or run away fast. This leads to Cinematic combat - otherwise you just die.

So d20 HP promotes "I can keep on fighting as long as I'm tough enough" while True20 Conditions promote "I better either run away or do something to win quickly".


@Choco: I'd freaking hate that.

I thought his houserule was a pretty good idea. Hold gun to head, "If you move I pull the trigger". Move, Init check, You Loose, Boom no HP loss, no critical hit, just a 45mm bullet making mush of your brain while you lay there on the floor with your legs giving their final spasm.
Now having a gun pointed at your head IS a deterrent, you might be able to do something about it but if you fail...

Jack_Banzai
2009-10-08, 06:21 PM
This does not work for modern and future settings because guns and lasers and bombs should be very lethal. I have 50 HP and take 7 from being shot no big deal I can keep fighting. It should be "I GOT SHOT help me I don't want to die"...

As I understand it, hit points aren't necessarily meant to indicate an injury at all times, but it also represents near-misses and lucky breaks that a high-level PC, NPC or monster is privy to rather than, say, a run of the mill mook. So in Star Wars RPG, for instance, the hit point damage you take doesn't necessarily mean that you were hit by a lightsaber - but that you narrowly avoided electric death. This is also the function of the "bloodied" condition in D&D 4E - you aren't really "wounded" until you are down to half of your hit points.

Delwugor
2009-10-08, 10:27 PM
In AD&D DMG (or is it PHB?) that was explicitly stated, don't know if it was stated in 3.X but I look at it that way anyways.

Yes Star Wars RCR and Saga both have hit points. I've played both and for me they also suffer from this same low cinematic feel. SWSE is somewhat more cinematic but IMO still not near what something like True Force is. Coincidence, I was just discussing cinematic feel in SWSE on another gaming forum this morning.

Callos_DeTerran
2009-10-08, 11:49 PM
This does not work for modern and future settings because guns and lasers and bombs should be very lethal. I have 50 HP and take 7 from being shot no big deal I can keep fighting. It should be "I GOT SHOT help me I don't want to die".

I cannot stress this enough for people playing Modern or Future who say that guns, lasers, and bombs, are not lethal, but remind your DM (or yourself) about the Massive Damage Threshhold! It's one of the reasons why gunfire is such a bad thing in d20 Modern, if you ever take damage over your Con score (which can be easy with grenades or long arms) then you always have a 1 in 20 chance of beinging in very dire straits. MORE if your Fort. bonus isn't that good.

You figure an average Con of 14, damage that is easily reached by explosives, long arms, and even by small arms (Definitely laser weapons or the more lethal weapons of the Future) and you'll be much much more cautious about sticking your head out when people with guns are about.

infinitypanda
2009-10-09, 12:06 AM
Not to mention that if you have 50 hit points and you only take 7 damage, it sounds like the bullet only grazed you, really.

Delwugor
2009-10-09, 01:16 PM
I cannot stress this enough for people playing Modern or Future who say that guns, lasers, and bombs, are not lethal, but remind your DM (or yourself) about the Massive Damage Threshhold!
That is a good point, the two people who GMd (not me) the adventures did not use the threshold and that would make a bigger difference in lethality.

Random832
2009-10-09, 01:23 PM
Getting stabbed with a sword is pretty deadly too - HP being a crappy abstraction of nothing in particular isn't especially worse for modern settings than for anything else

Zincorium
2009-10-09, 01:36 PM
That is a good point, the two people who GMd (not me) the adventures did not use the threshold and that would make a bigger difference in lethality.

That makes sense now- if you don't mention houserules things can get pretty confusing.

How it's supposed to be in D20 modern is that any amount of damage that can cause a massive damage roll is what should be considered lethal- getting shot in the chest, for instance. You have a good chance of dying, but it's not guaranteed. Critical hits will pretty much always cause one unless it's done with something harmless.

Anything else is getting winged at most, not a direct hit in the squishy bits. If you're like most action movie stars, you can get shot in the shoulder like 40 times without going down- that's why the hit points. But you've still got a strong element of danger because some punk kid with a 9mm can still mess up your day, nevermind the AK-47 wielding soldiers burst firing into you.

D20 modern has it's problems, I'm not going to defend all the things they did, but lethality and lack of 'cinematic' feel aren't among them. Plus, I think that 'cinematic' in this case is supposed to be an action flick like Transporter or Bourne Identity, because the base assumption of the game fit those really well. Other ideas of what cinematic means don't fit so well.

sonofzeal
2009-10-09, 01:47 PM
Getting stabbed with a sword is pretty deadly too - HP being a crappy abstraction of nothing in particular isn't especially worse for modern settings than for anything else
Indeed. In actual fact, I'd probably rather get shot with a normal bullet than full-on stabbed with an actual sword. The sword's a whole lot bigger, and is going to do a whole lot more going in and coming out. The only advantage of the bullet is that it's more likely to hit the torso where a lot of important stuff is, while sword hits (based on my sparring experiences) generally cluster around the legs and arms. Still, a good sword swipe is capable of completely disabling and possibly removing a limb, while a bullet hit is surprisingly survivable. In movies, a single bullet takes down just about anybody almost instantly, but in real life people routinely survive getting hit with five or six, depending on the location.

That said, yeah, hp is a bad abstraction and inherently unrealistic. It makes for a generally better game though, in most situations, so I won't complain too much.

If you want a bit more realism, toss in a d% every time someone's hit by a bullet. A 25% chance of dropping straight to -1 should cut it. Maybe 10% for low-calibur, 50% for the really nasty bullets that take out a chunk, and 75% for a shotgun, which would finally give it a reason to actually get used.